it will be bundled with SONAR 3.
anyone used it before?
how does ist compare to lexicon hardware (mid-range) reverbs?

best regards

david

It hasnt been made available separately, so the only people who would know would be Sonar3 beta-testers and pre-release reviewers. The former may still be under NDA. Sonar3 doesnt ship for another fortnight or so.

Only Computer Music have reviewed Sonar3 so far. I got the impression they were impressed with the Lexicon.

It appears to be based on the 480 algorithms, but with a UI derived from the 960.

So it's based on the 480 then? I was told by someone who should know a few years ago that the Alex and Reflex used chips that were relatives of the 480. And if the s/w sounds anything like the Alex, then they should be very very useable - I'd be happy with that kind of quality in a properly user adjustable Alex plugin. The Alex may be old nowadays, but it still beats most other new budget reverbs hands down. I keep thinking of buying one of the MPX range, but I'm still more than happy with my old half-broken Alex, so I've never thought it worth the expense. A 480 in s/w will be a very strong selling point for Sonar methinks.

It doesn't go into details, but here's the official press release.
http://www.lexiconpro.com/press/details.asp?ID=78

Lexicon® Pro Announces Pantheon™ Reverb Plug-In

September 19th, 2003, Salt Lake City, Utah – Lexicon® Pro, a Harman International Company (NYSE-HAR) is pleased to announce the Lexicon Pantheon™ reverb for SONAR 3™ by Cakewalk®.

Designed entirely by Lexicon engineers, Pantheon offers 35 factory presets featuring 6 reverb types (hall, chamber, plate, room, ambience and custom) controlled by an intuitive user interface with 16 editable parameters. Pantheon is being offered as a standard embedded feature of the new SONAR 3 Producer Edition software by Cakewalk. Pantheon LE™ is included in SONAR 3 Studio Edition.

“The Lexicon name is synonymous with ‘the world’s best reverb’. We are excited to make this level of processing available for the PC platform.” commented Rob Urry, President of Lexicon. “Cakewalk’s leadership in PC based recording software makes them a great partner for our DirectX plug-ins.” Urry added.

“We are elated to equip SONAR 3 with the pristine quality of Lexicon reverb – it sounds fantastic and is an excellent compliment to SONAR 3’s new mixing environment.” commented Michael Hoover, VP of Product Marketing for Cakewalk.

A legacy of innovation has led Lexicon to the forefront of the digital audio industry. Today, Lexicon digital signal processing is the world-recognized standard for quality and versatility in time domain effects. In fact, Lexicon is the processing platform of choice for the audio production of over 80 percent of all recorded and live music as well as major motion pictures.

well, don`t get me wrong, but don`t really count on the name ...
i mean, exept the 480l, 300 and pcm 90/91 they`re not soooo good at all ...
i`ve had them all, and so far i can tell :
when it comes to an hi-end mix, the 480l is THE solution when talking of lexicon, and i personally
don`t think that lexicon is grabbing water off the own ...
anyway, some of the vst reverbs (even the free ones) have become so good, that, if lexicon isn`t killing itself by releasing the 480l algorithms
the vst reverbs make a good stands in comparsion to most hardware pedants.
allthough not all of them.
just my 2 cents though.

reg.

Hmmmm.... I think you'll find most of us reverb pedants disagree quite strongly. Reverb is very much down to personal taste I agree, but I've had a few of the other h/w makes, and to be honest they really don't compete at all with Lexicon. Certainly when you compare things like Zoom, Digitech (at least most of the budget models), Alesis, Roland and Yamaha you could be right that the better VST reverbs can stand in for them with certain types of reverb.

But Ambience, ReverbX etc standing head to head with even a bargain basement Lexicon? Hmmmmmmmmm........... not.

Check out on the download stats for impulses for SIR etc ... you'll find that the majority go for Lexicon and TC impluses, and for very good reason too. I've not come across anyone who uses things like SIR that would ever go back to the usual VST reverb FX. Not that all of them are bad as such, but I find it a little bit like comparing a Korg S+S synth with something like a CS80, or a Mazda MX5 with a Lotus Elise - they'll both get you from A to B, but only one will really get you wanting to go straight back to A so that you can do the trip all over again hmmmmmmmmm?

You really think a free VST reverb can compete with an MPX? Someone around here uses their headphones too much at far too high volumes and too regularly - you have to look after your ears you know.

Quote:

Hmmmm.... I think you'll find most of us reverb pedants disagree quite strongly. Reverb is very much down to personal taste I agree, but I've had a few of the other h/w makes, and to be honest they really don't compete at all with Lexicon.

maybe i pointed this one out wrong ... i meant, that the real advantage to mid class reverbs is not so big in terms of what the reverbs are doing in the mix finally. i owned most of the lexicon reverbs, and i was capable to work a quite long time (1 1/2 years) with the 480l
and when its not coming to a situation where i need a real church ambiance but needed a rever that does the job in a frequency packed mix all, also the vst reverbs, even the lexicons failed exept the 300l and the 480l.
but when it comes to a situation where i need a short snare ambiance in a packed mix, the vst reverbs did the job very well, even as good as the lexicons, up to the pcm 90.so what i`m saying is, that, if you need a very hi-end reverb, there´s no way out, you need the 480 or the 300 then.
and when you need a "normal" short and decent reverb, the plugins did the job as good as the hardware ...

Quote:

Certainly when you compare things like Zoom, Digitech (at least most of the budget models), Alesis, Roland and Yamaha you could be right that the better VST reverbs can stand in for them with certain types of reverb.But Ambience, ReverbX etc standing head to head with even a bargain basement Lexicon? Hmmmmmmmmm........... not.

well ... not reverb x ... but ambience sounds quite admirable wich i find.

Quote:

Check out on the download stats for impulses for SIR etc ... you'll find that the majority go for Lexicon and TC impluses, and for very good reason too. I've not come across anyone who uses things like SIR that would ever go back to the usual VST reverb FX. Not that all of them are bad as such, but I find it a little bit like comparing a Korg S+S synth with something like a CS80, or a Mazda MX5 with a Lotus Elise - they'll both get you from A to B, but only one will really get you wanting to go straight back to A so that you can do the trip all over again hmmmmmmmmm?

i know sir since the very first release and it can sound incredible, but first it eats a lot of cpu if you use a hi quality response impulse, and second i mostly cannot realy live with its limits ofparameters ... its simply not done with a hi end room, it has to fit in the mix ... thats at least my opinion ...
i prefer not to build a mix around the reverb, but opposite ...

Quote:

You really think a free VST reverb can compete with an MPX?

it doesn`t have to be freeware necessaryly, and i prefer my own developed
vst reverb at all ... will be out soon, dont panic ...

Quote:

Someone around here uses their headphones too much at far too high volumes and too regularly - you have to look after your ears you know.

hä ? somehow i cannot hear you ... :logic:

reg.

Quote:

maybe i pointed this one out wrong ... i meant, that the real advantage to mid class reverbs is not so big in terms of what the reverbs are doing in the mix finally. i owned most of the lexicon reverbs, and i was capable to work a quite long time (1 1/2 years) with the 480l and when its not coming to a situation where i need a real church ambiance but needed a rever that does the job in a frequency packed mix all, also the vst reverbs, even the lexicons failed exept the 300l and the 480l. but when it comes to a situation where i need a short snare ambiance in a packed mix, the vst reverbs did the job very well, even as good as the lexicons, up to the pcm 90.so what i`m saying is, that, if you need a very hi-end reverb, there´s no way out, you need the 480 or the 300 then. and when you need a "normal" short and decent reverb, the plugins did the job as good as the hardware ...

eh..? IMO especially in short reverbs and situations where the mix is crowded the quality of the reverb is ciritcal. Most VST/DX plugin reverbs swamp the mix and make it muddy (no matter how much I tweak the reverb tail EQ responce or damping). A hi quality reverb usually sits very well in a mix, especially the high end lexicon reverbs, based on my experience with the SIR impulses. I'm also a total SIR junkie and will never look back. While composing I use some VST reverbs (mainly fruity's own reverb) but when doing the mixdown I use SIR even though it's a pain to use but the end results make it worthwile.

Quote:

well ... not reverb x ... but ambience sounds quite admirable wich i find.

You gotta be kiddin...

Cheers,
bManic

I also agree with the comment about even short reverbs - the point is that if you are using even a short reverb on a snare, the odds are that you are going to be using that same reverb on other drums ( I know some people use a different reverb on every different instrument, but i find that sits quite un-naturally in any mix myself - it's better to have only one or maybe 2 reverbs IMO)

So it's when you add up all those little bits of reverb into a full mix that bad reverbs really stand out (not bad... I should say rather... ordinary). 2 snares, maybe some toms, even just a little on some hats - that is already 4 lots of reverb - it soon adds up to a horrible ringing metallic muddy nasty edge to the general VSTFX reverb (and budget h/w multiFX reverbs). That was always the strong point to almost any model of Lexicon reverb - they allowed you to have higher levels of reverb and still retain clarity and space. I've not tried a single VST reverb that can stand several instances of it in a full mix.

Ambience can sound pretty good for metallic reverbs such as springs, plates etc, but as a general reverb for instruments in several instances ...?????????? It may sound good to some people, but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole for that kind of treatment - I'm not knocking it (for one thing it's not in the same league, so it's not fair to compare the two of them together), but compared to any Lexicon it stinks.

And Brok .. you say SIR can sound incredible - yes of course... isn't that precisely because it captures the sound of Lexicons so well.......? I know what you mean about CPU .. it's a hog, but that's a different issue. It basically boils down to the fact you need alot of CPU to make a halfway decent reverb in a PC. You play off sound quality against things like CPU - personally I think it's worth the trade off, as reverb is one of the few FX that is horrible if not done properly.

And one last light-hearted moment - last time I looked in the Echochamber site there was a set of impulses from Ambience ..... I nearly pissed myself laughing. Let's download impulses of a free-to-all reverb that is pretty good on CPU, and then use them in SIR so that we will lose a fraqction of quality of the original at a cost of up to 10 times the CPU useage ..... what the **** is that all about then... what joker uploaded those impulses - and some jokers actually downloaded them too .. he he he he he

The latest SONAR 3 FAQ says it is valued at $499, so it better be up there with Altiverb. I guess we will know in a few days when SONAR 3 ships.

I listened to that lexicon pantheon reverb.. Is it me or is it not too crash hot? I honestly like the Kjaerhus Audio free reverb better! All this stuff about lexicon verbs sitting in the mix is bullshit.. Use your ears you dicks!

I smell goat meat.

I've heard it to. And in my point of view, the name of the plug is the only thing that sounds nice in this reverb.
I don't know why but it's sounds very artificial and cannot be compared to the best freewares we can find on the web (Ambiance, SIR, Classic Reverb...)

So the really good news for Cakewalk Afficionados isn't this marketing reverb but the Ultrafunk Sonitus Pack that has been included in Sonar 3. (Try the Sonitus Verb and see what you like better to use between the Ultrafunk one and the Lexicon one)

Do the people pissing on the Pantheon actually "own" S3 Producer or have you been listening to the "Pre-release" version that is circulating on the warez sites? Because that RC Pantheon version is different than the actual release version. It had some defects that were fixed for the official release version. To my ears, the Pantheon, (the official release version) is as good if not better than ANY native reverb plugin out there at a fraction of the CPU hit AND with FULL PDC in DX hosts, to boot. I am not saying the the Pantheon is the end all, be all of native reverb plugs, but it will be one of the first I reach for when needing a reverb. I especially like using the Plate preset algos (Vocal & Medium), on vocals and strings and adjusting the Mix slider to taste. Typically, a 25%-40% setting is all it takes, no need to overdue it , you know

Billy Buck

Found this on the cakewalk SONAR news group:

"Scott Reams" <sreams at liquiddaw.com> wrote in message
news:bcdDxLVjDHA.2072@WIN10330.iad.dn.net...
> Hey peeps...
>
> I threw this together in response to some of the questions about Pantheon.
> With each example, an attempt was made to get the same basic sound from
each
> reverb... the same decay time, the same predelay, the same EQ, etc. The
> following plugins are included in the comparison:
>
> old Cakewalk Reverb (pre-Sonar)
> Cakewalk FxReverb
> WaveArts MasterVerb
> Project5 Reverb
> Pantheon
> Waves RenVerb
> Waves TrueVerb
> TCWorks Reverb
> SonitusFX Reverb
>
> Enjoy:
>
> http://www.roadrec.com/Verbs.zip