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AuthorTopic: Could someone make a VST out of this... ?
Claymore
Posted: 25th September 2003 19:34
It's an early reflection simulation model based on psychoacoustic principles = head shading, interaural delays and such. In other words, lowpass, highpass filters, delays and some calculations.
It's written in form of a MS Excel table - shows all the calculations and a Word document that contains all the additional information.

http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/er_calc2.zip (278kb)

The following mp3 demonstrates it's abilities. Anechoic bass trombone, anechoic french horn and some piano at the end. I wish I could put up something better but it takes quite a lot of time to execute all the delays with a sound editor. I3DL2 Reverb from directx media objects was used for late reverberation.

http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/er_calc2.mp3 (585kb)

May it be freeware if possible.
xoxos
Posted: 26th September 2003 08:28
no excel/word.. why not diy in www.synthedit.com ? or put it 'in english' if i've got a spare minute?
Claymore
Posted: 26th September 2003 10:43
I did not use synth edit because you people can have it finished before I even get an idea how synth edit works.
Could you possibly be more specific about the english problem? Text editor wants you to install foreign language support, is my english that bad or the doc file doesn't serve it's purpose?
fabi the underachiever
Posted: 26th September 2003 22:59
from what i have gathered you are somewhat of an anarchist, xoxos. a lot of anarchists encourage and pratically swear by cooperation as opposed to competition and isolationism... are you not one of them?

(not meant to be an insult or anything - but sometimes it is, like claymore pointed out, just more practical to ask others...)



then again, you did sort of offer your help. Embarassed
xoxos
Posted: 27th September 2003 07:11
well that will get you places
fabi the underachiever
Posted: 27th September 2003 08:11
most certainly it will. e.g. it'd be pretty stupid for me to do research on my own cool medications/cure for whatever, while I am dying and could just have used some med that already exists... I mean, what would happen if all the people who donate money for cancer/aids/whatever research would just use that money to do some research themselves??? the research wouldn't be getting anywhere. cooperation my friend, cooperation.
xoxos
Posted: 27th September 2003 10:39
imho any rational person viewing the first and second messages would observe a statement as to the format of the data and a statement 'as to the' inability to open data of that format. i can't open it! do you understand!

the reason i am an anarchist is to get away from people who can't help themselves/would prefer to help themselves to me. the reason i make plug-ins is to stimulate the tiny brains of people who have been gulled into being exploited in the hopes of rescinding the paradigm. i don't want to work for you. i don't want you to work for them. i want you to see the destruction of working for them, how ultimately unsynergetic the methodology turns out to be. a synergy among the independent is so much more functional.
xoxos
Posted: 27th September 2003 10:43
oh and btw cancer is a psychosomatic product of industrialism.. uncontrolled replication. get yourself out of a system in which you are just a clone and suddenly cancer isn't an epidemic.
fabi the underachiever
Posted: 27th September 2003 10:51
well, then insert anything other than cancer that shows cooperation to be beneficial in both learning and the end result.
you are working for me right now, by talking to me, since i am benefiting from this discussion, and you might, too, though I cannot say for sure. people always benefit from each other/work for each other and be it only a discussion such as this one - i am still working for you and you for me.

I didn't understand that you couldn't open that file, or whatever the problem was, sorry. Embarassed
Claymore
Posted: 27th September 2003 16:07
http://www.user661.wz.cz/er_calc2_htm.zip

Thanks for being interested Xoxos, the htm files don't look very well compared to the originals but at least you should be able to read them. If there's any ambiguity in the description just ask.
Claymore
Posted: 28th September 2003 10:24
I finally did some quality comparison and here is the result..

Everything was set in order to simulate Vienna Musikvereinsaal. I recommend to use good headphones, close your eyes and try to imagine the space you hear. The tenor trombone was given a position near the rear wall of the stage, slightly off axis where no direct sound head shading is applyed.

about 200kb/file

http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/t-cep2e.mp3

This is Cool Edit pro ver2 echo chamber. Being more complex, thic model could be good but when the only adjustable thing about the filtering is the damping frequency, there's no way how to make a good concert hall setting. Once you raise the damping frequency, the reverberation becomes metallic-like.
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http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/t-cep2r.mp3

Cool Edit pro ver2 full reverb is the only one compareable to early reflections calculator, sounds almost the same but the bass frequencies are strictly localized and there's a noticable boost in the high frequencies (no head shading?). This can be pleasing with bass instruments such as tuba but might (and often will) sound metallic with other instruments.
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http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/t-er_calc2.mp3

The sound was modified according to Early reflections calculator ver2 and I3DL2Reverb from DX media objects (comes for free with DX8 or newer) was added for random late reflections and reverberation. Here I should say that this and all the methods above are very sensitive to frequency balance of the sound - it won't work on close miced drums for example, unless you equalize them very carefully.
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http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/t-i3dl2.mp3

This is I3DL2Reverb alone, with the best settings I was able to put up. Sounds quite good in overall but with only the direct sound in the early reflections area, the spatial impression is very flat.
------

And finally
http://www.user661.wz.cz/articles/vhall/t-dry.zip (584kb)
...if someone does not think I put enough efford into adjusting the other reverbs.
realmarco
Posted: 30th September 2003 09:07
cool samples..where did you get those ?
Claymore
Posted: 30th September 2003 17:53
These samples were recorded in Wendell Johnson Speech and Hearing Center at The University of Iowa and are freely available on their website http://theremin.music.uiowa.edu/MIS.html

I did convert them to 32bit, reduced the noise with an adaptive filter, normalized and converted back to 16bit so there's practically no noise at all. The tenor trombone forte used in the test is freely available in iti (Ipulse tracker instrument) format here http://www.user661.wz.cz/samples/ttrombone_f.rar You can convert it to other formats using Awave (you'll probably have to correct sample volumes).

I also have some other instruments but their current versions are a bit out of tune http://www.user661.wz.cz/samples.htm Tell me if you are interested and I'll promote "tune the anechoic samples" in my "what to do" list.
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