Can someone please explain how to automate Ohmboyz Dx as an Audio effect in Sonar 3 using CC control messages from an Evolution MK249C2 keyboard. Normal DX automation is not implemented in the Ohmforce DX plugins.

The Ohmboyz Autobind function does nothing. Note that I can set up other DX FX (PSP Audio plugs, iZotope DXs)with no problem but the DX version Ohmboyz (expert) version is not responding. This lack of function is very lame for at US$79 program.

Thanks,
Gordon

I got mine as part of the OFE bundle, all the CC data is in the manual. I haven't registered at ohmforce.com yet but I'm sure all the info can be found there if you register.

Thanks StudioSense,

I have the manual and know what CC numbers to use. I just don't understand how to route them in Sonar 3 and control from my Evolution keyboard. I do not get why the autobind feature does not work. I have contacted Ohmforce a couple oftimes and posted on their forums but no answer. It seems that none there have much experience with Sonar. That probably explains why no so little attention was given to DX automation

Gordon

Unfortunately I don't know Sonar at all myself, what I do know though is that DX automation doesn't exist, hence the need for midi automation in DX plugs.
Here'e the answer, use a VST wrapper and use the VST version.
Please note also that Sonar doesn't always work well with VST plus

Thansk StudioSense,

That is logical option of couse and the demos works. But I purchased the DX version. Ohmforce when I asked want me to spend another US$79 for the VST version. This is my gripe with Ohmforce. Unlike many other companies (PSP, Wavearts, IK Multimedia and other) they charge separately for the VST and Dx windos versions of their plugin. Idon't wnat to pay another $79 just because thaye don't have their act together enough to offer fully compatible plugins.

Gordon

To be honest, I don't think the problem lies with Ohm Force, from experience I know that there are so many workarounds that need to be applied to plugins to enable them to be Sonar compatible.<br />
Did it work in Sonar 2 by the way?<br />

No it does not. There apparently is some workaround using midiyoke that I can't see but I will use that only if the autobind bind feature truly is a no go.

Thanks for your support.

Cheers,
Gordon

Hi Gordon,

the Ohm Force Dx plugins are DirectX 1 compatible, and do not support the Dx automation (which is a Dx2 functionality).

So you need to automate it using MIDI. I don't know Sonar well, and I don't know how to rout MIDI to a plugin in this host, but we'll check ASAP if this is possible.

If Sonar don't allow you this, you'll need a 'virtual MIDI cable'. This will make virtual MIDI ports available to any audio program.
You'll have to send the MIDI data to the virtual output port using Sonar, and select the virtual input port in the plugin.

The autobind feature is a way to quickly assign knobs to MIDI cc. (and is a quick way to check your plugin receives MIDI) :
a) select 'autobind' in the setup menu
b) select a knob
c) send a CC using your controler or your host

repeat b) and c) with others knobs/cc

d) deselect 'autobind' in the setup menu
e) save your configuration (in the setup menu)
f) check 'auto load' in the setup menu so that this configuration is always loaded with the plugin

If you want to check your plugin receives MIDI from your controller :
do a) b) and turn a knob on your controller : the selected knob will start moving.

Tell me if that helps!

Best,

You've just reminded me of how ripped off I feel having bought the DX version from Cakewalk. They made a big thing about the automation and sure, after shelling out for Midioverlan, I can automate using NRPN numbers. I guess if your controller can transmit NRPN then your OK - but remember the virtual midi-pipe of some sort which they just don't mention on the Cakewalk site. I couldn't find a way to use CC's. It took forever to register, serial number not passed on, with Ohmforce blaming Cakewalk and Cakewalk not replying until I offered to post my gripes on this site. It's a top effect but I hardly use it because every time I use it I get pissed off.The NRPN's do work when you draw envelopes in Sonar 2 - I guess it will work in Sonar 3 (if it ever comes to the UK!!!!!) so you have something to be thankful about - but it's not the joy of automation without something like Midioverlan!!! Have you also noticed on the Ohmforce site how they don't answer questions fully when they know you're not going to like the answer. Warning if buying Ohmforce - buy vst!!!! Jeeze - what a moaner I sound!!! I do have a lovely Access Virus - hmmmmmmmmmm I feel better already.

graham wrote:

I couldn't find a way to use CC's.

You can use CC's : do the 'auto bind' stuff i was talking about in my last post. Then save the configuration in a safe place (your VST or Ohm Force plugin folder for example) and select 'Autoload' in the setup menu.
This configuration will be the default one from then.
You an also edit the file by hand, it's readable.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Hey I probably sound harsh there about Ohmforce. It's not Ohmforce I was getting at. Jerome was as helpful as he could be at the time. I've tried what you suggest here Jerome and you're right but can you actually use more than one autobind at a time? I seem to be able only to autobind to one parameter at a time which is nice but probably not enough. It was really Cakewalks "mislead" in the sales pitch.

No offence Jerome!

Hey Jerome

I just tried it exactly as you said and it works!!! This has just made this plug much more useful to me. I can programme the whole thing using Novation Remote 25 and have that as my controller on-tap without delay(pun intended). No more NRPN's for me.

Thanks very much

graham wrote:

Hey I probably sound harsh there about Ohmforce. It's not Ohmforce I was getting at. Jerome was as helpful as he could be at the time.

no offence, we try to be as clear as we can, but it's not easy to get every one informed.

graham wrote:

I've tried what you suggest here Jerome and you're right but can you actually use more than one autobind at a time? I seem to be able only to autobind to one parameter at a time which is nice but probably not enough.

I'm not sure of what you mean so here are two possible answers :

-> you can bind one CC to one knob, not one CC to many knobs nor one knob on many CC

-> you can of course define many ['CC'/Knob] couples.

graham wrote:

It was really Cakewalks "mislead" in the sales pitch. No offence Jerome!

it hurts, but you are forgiven

graham wrote:

Hey Jerome I just tried it exactly as you said and it works!!! This has just made this plug much more useful to me. I can programme the whole thing using Novation Remote 25 and have that as my controller on-tap without delay(pun intended). No more NRPN's for me. Thanks very much

Great!

Have fun then!

But the bottom line is that DX1-based plugins are a pain to automate in Sonar compared to DX2-based ones and aren't really competitive anymore. It would be very good for Ohmforce to update their plugins to DX2. Meanwhile, I've bought all of the Ohmforce plugins in VST format and wrap them for use in Sonar for this very reason.

Thanks Ivory_Force for the detailed reply,

It is tricky since I do not remember how to select CC messages on my keyboard. I don't need to do this normally. Anyway I will check the keyboard's manual. I do have midyoke installed and will try out your method. Though I think I already did go through this whole spiel unsuccessfully.

I do find it very upsetting that the VST version is automatable while the DX version is hamstrung in this way . After spending US$79 (~105 CDN)on this plugin and then finding thatlater that the VST is fully functional is galling. The DX version should be half price to compensate and the VST availble at leat for a reduced price for DX users.

Gordon

You had a point about not giving clear answer on our forums, so I'll grab this occasion to explain and made a clear statement now that we are able to: there won't be any DX2 versions

This has been a harsh decision for us, and that's why it was unclear for so long - lots of hesitations from our side. Cakewalk sure is a nice company but on the economical side, we were sure to do it at loss (a loss that we couldn't afford BTW). If there was a substantial features boost with DX2 compare to VST we would have try to find a workaround, but anyway... the VST adapter bundled with all the new Cakewalk products there was no other reasonable decision.

Let me explain... Each standard means very costly new development. It's probably 50% of all the code work on plugings when you start to have loads of them. BTW, I hope all of you guyz realise that the inability of Big Names to limit the market to two or three standard (or of the market to have a leader apps that rule them all)is harming hard both plugin developpers and... customers. It raises prices (not too much at Ohm Force with limited to one standard commercial offers but in most other companies), limit the time we can devote to creating products and increase the money you customers have to spend to just keep on track, sometime in a very severe way.

Now for the good news: we'll make soon a general crossgrade offer to get all the standards for one plug. It means that if you have one DX plug like the OhmBoyz, you can get VST PC, OS9, OSX, MAS OS9 and Audio Units and all of that for EUR 24,90. The customers that have allready bought some crossgrades will get the crossgrade completion for free so if you need some crossgrades now there is no reason to wait. Actually we can do it individually for ppl needing it now that would contact us directly... For the others, this will probably happen in 2004 first quarter.

OK, was that direct enough for you ?

Hello Red_Force

I very much appreciate your fair and direct answer to the DX problem. This is just what I expected from a quality crew like Ohmforce. Thank you!

Best wishes,
Gordon Sauvé

Ivory_Force wrote:

Quote:

c) send a CC using your controler or your host

This is not working for me. How do I configure autobind to respond to my keyboard. I have set Ohmboyz to respond on autobind. When I tweak a midi controller knob, nothing happens. I have set the midi inputs to MidiYoke NT:1 and the midi channel inputs to my Evolution keyboard - nothing. This is driving me nuts! If any of your sonar users have got this working please tell me how in detail - assume you are instructing an idiot because this process is way to complex for me to figure out on my own.

Gordon

Gordon,

you should set MIDIYoke NT:1 as input port only if you want to automate the plug-in from Sonar (Sonar sending MIDI to the equivalent MIDIYoke port). If you want the MIDI data to go straight from your keyboard to Ohmboyz, select your classic MIDI port, where the keyboard is connected. However you should be sure that no application (especially Sonar) is using it, otherwise OhmBoyz could connect to it - this is a limitation of the MIDI system in Windows.

-- Laurent

http://www.melohman.com

Thanks very much Laurent,

I'll see if I can make sense of this when I get back home tonight.

Cheers,
Gordon

Dear Ohm Force folks.

Thanks for the news on the cross-grade. I'll look forward to that. I'm rather kicking myself that I didn't get the VST, not knowing that automation was such an effort. Sigh, live and learn.

But a question. What, I really want to do is automate patch changes, and if I'm remembering correctly you cannot bind these, therefore you cannot automate them. Is this correct? Has anyone figured out a way to run patch changes in Sonar?

Puffer wrote:

What, I really want to do is automate patch changes, and if I'm remembering correctly you cannot bind these, therefore you cannot automate them. Is this correct? Has anyone figured out a way to run patch changes in Sonar?

I am afraid this is not possible. All you can do is record all the automation, and do your patch change.

But it will be somehow possible with the Melohman synths

Best,

I still cannot manage to get Ohmboyz DX or wrapped VSt to respond to CC messages from my Evolution keyboard in Sonar. Doeas anyone have a detailed desciption for dummies like me how to accomplish this?

Thanks,
Gordon

Quote:

I still cannot manage to get Ohmboyz DX or wrapped VSt to respond to CC messages from my Evolution keyboard in Sonar. Doeas anyone have a detailed desciption for dummies like me how to accomplish this?

If you want to use Ohmboyz in conjunction with a DXi or VSTi, then do this:

o Use the Synth Rack to create the instrument, the audio track (DX track in Sonar 3), and the midi track all wired up properly.
o Create an instance of Ohmboyz DX in the FX bin and open the UI for Ohmboyz.

Now you are in Ohmboyz-land.

o Click on Setup > Input device and select your Evolution device.
o Click on the knob in Ohmboyz that you want to automate.
o Click on Setup > Auto-bind to turn it on.
o Twiddle a knob on your Evolution keyboard.
o The Ohmboyz knob should start moving.
o Click on Setup > Auto-bind to turn it off.

If you want to use Ohmboyz on a pure audio track, then do this:

o Wrap Ohmboyz VST as a DXi -- note the "i". You can do this with the Cakewalk and DirectiXer wrappers by setting the appropriate options to wrap Ohmboyz as an instrument even though it is an effect.
o Insert an audio track in Sonar.
o Create an instance of Ohmboyz VST/DXi in the FX bin. Note that you will find Ohmboyz VST/DXi on the DXi Synth rightclick menu in the FX bin (not the Audio effects menu).
o Insert a midi track in Sonar.
o Wire the newly inserted midi track to your Ohmboyz VST/DXi instance. It will appear as a choice in the Output pulldown of the newly inserted midi track.
o Open the Ohmboyz VST/DXi GUI and repeat the steps from "Ohmboyz-land" above.

Another alternative -- and my personal favorite -- is to use Chainer.

o Purchase Chainer.
o Wrap it as a DX/DXi using your favorite wrapper.
o Make instances of Chainer in Sonar.
o Load in VST instruments and VST effects into Chainer inside of Sonar.
o Use Chainer's binding mechanism for any VSTi or VST.

Thanks very much James. I will try this tonight. I see the light at the end of tunnel. I have looked at Chainer and it will take far more time than I have right now to figure out. It's gonna have to be for another day after I get used to a number of my recently acquired programs as wellas thise I am I am beta testing. And I still am getting used to Sonar 3. HellI am still getting used to Sonar 2's functionalities.

Cheers,
Gordon

Beeardedone

Just in case it's still going tits for you here's what i do in Sonar:

Load Ohmboyz DX in audio track fx slot.
Open Ohmboyz and set input device to whatevre midi pipe your using.
In a Midi track below set output of this track to same pipe number as the Ohmboyz midi-in pipe. Make the Midi track active (nice beige colour)
Click autobind mouse click on a Ohmboyz dial and twiddle knob on controller: repeat liberally - but here's the rub for me. I only get a visual response on Ohmboyz if 1. I arm the audio track to record and actually record or and this worked better for me 2. I had some audio already on the track and played it back. I basically took a 4x4 drum beat (it could just as easily be your grandmother singing in the shower) grooveclipped it and dragged it out long enough and played that while autobinding the dials to the various controllers on a Remote 25. or 3 Stick it in the fx slot for the audio output of Reason or another DX and it will work. Bottom line for me is: no audio in the track lane or not recording = no movement of dials. Maybe this is your problem?? This is probably what James is saying too. I used to hate this thing but now I think it's heaps of fun. My cat loves it too with all those funny noises ...................NOT!!!! And of course remember to switch off autobind and save your settings - or you'll be doing this all over again!!!

I verified Graham's method; it works just as he describes it.

I think the overall strategy is this:

o You need to properly set a midi input device for Ohmboyz using a combination of the Ohmboyz setup menu and the Sonar Options | Midi Devices menu.
o You need to wire things in Sonar so that midi data gets sent to Ohmboyz. This can be done several ways as described in the posts above.
o You need to select an Ohmboyz knob, enable Ohmboyz auto-bind, send cc data from your controller, then disable Ohmboyz auto-bind.

You guys are the greatest. I will try it when my kids have gone to bed.

Cheers,
Gordon

gordon, you know you're getting too old to be learning new tricks!

Maybe I am Gary.

We'll see if I can actually get this to work, eh?

Cheers,
Gordon

Works a treat guys. I followed Graham and James advice for a DX instance of Ohmboyz as an Audio FX Set up a midi track to receive input from my Midi controller (MK249C2) and the midi output of this track matching to the input (midi yoke NT 2 for example) of Ohmboyz (confgured in the setup). It was then a simple matter of autibinding a knob in Ohmboyz by moving it with my mouse and then twirling a controller voila controller connected. Beautiful!

Thanks a million guys! You made my week! Now what was I trying to do by automating this effect again?

Best,
Gordon