In response to numerous requests, I have decided to amend my policy with respect to providing single hardware specific license keys.

As an initial trial, I have developed a utility which allows an existing licensed user of ‘FreEq Boy’ to transfer a single license to multiple computers. I refer to this utility as the 'FreEq Boy' Registration Transfer Utility (RTU).

NOTE: The RTU is not compatible with the FREE versions of 'FreEq Boy' obtained with 'Clone Boy' or 'Wider Boy Pro'.

The RTU Enables the following:

• Transfer of an existing 'FreEq Boy' registration key (license) to another computer.
  
• Operation of 'FreEq Boy' on more than one computer using the same license.
  
• NOTE: Since the original license key is hardware specific, the RTU provides a convenient means of backup in case of future hardware changes (and there is concern that I am not available to provide a new license key).
  

This utility is specific to ‘FreEq Boy’ only. If the response is good then I will consider a similar utility for ‘Clone Boy’ and ‘Wider Boy Pro’.

Naturally, such a utility is not FREE. The cost of this utility is $15.95.

To obtain this utility, just drop an email to info@elevayta.com and, if you have already purchased a license for ‘FreEq Boy’ you will be provided with further purchase details and conditions for the RTU.

Wide Boy wrote:

In response to numerous requests, I have decided to amend my policy with respect to providing single hardware specific license keys. As an initial trial, I have developed a utility which allows an existing licensed user of ‘FreEq Boy’ to transfer a single license to multiple computers. I refer to this utility as the 'FreEq Boy' Registration Transfer Utility (RTU). NOTE: The RTU is not compatible with the FREE versions of 'FreEq Boy' obtained with 'Clone Boy' or 'Wider Boy Pro'. The RTU Enables the following: Transfer of an existing 'FreEq Boy' registration key (license) to another computer. Operation of 'FreEq Boy' on more than one computer using the same license. NOTE: Since the original license key is hardware specific, the RTU provides a convenient means of backup in case of future hardware changes. This utility is specific to ‘FreEq Boy’ only. If the response is good then I will consider a similar utility for ‘Clone Boy’ and ‘Wider Boy Pro’. Naturally, such a utility is not FREE. The cost of this utility is $15.95. To obtain this utility, just drop an email to info@elevayta.com and, if you have already purchased a license for ‘FreEq Boy’ you will be provided with further purchase details and conditions for the RTU.

It’s good you recognise the limitations imposed by hardware specific unlocks – and in fact are doing something about it to reach the greater number of artists.

However I don’t mean this to stir trouble or anything – just an observation.

It appears from that news you are asking registered users to pay again for another license.

And not just an update to registered users.

Also how does this relate to new users?

Personaly my views are now middle ground - it's just a wondering point.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

all very very bizzare im sorry to say.

it would make so much more sense to just sell the software at a keen price and have a serial to install.

it works for just about every other thriving dev so it will for you.

nobody wants to be messing about with fiddly registration methods.

of coarse this is just my opinion.

Wide Boy wrote:

In response to numerous requests, I have decided to amend my policy with respect to providing single hardware specific license keys. As an initial trial, I have developed a utility which allows an existing licensed user of ‘FreEq Boy’ to transfer a single license to multiple computers. I refer to this utility as the 'FreEq Boy' Registration Transfer Utility (RTU). NOTE: The RTU is not compatible with the FREE versions of 'FreEq Boy' obtained with 'Clone Boy' or 'Wider Boy Pro'. The RTU Enables the following: Transfer of an existing 'FreEq Boy' registration key (license) to another computer. Operation of 'FreEq Boy' on more than one computer using the same license. NOTE: Since the original license key is hardware specific, the RTU provides a convenient means of backup in case of future hardware changes. This utility is specific to ‘FreEq Boy’ only. If the response is good then I will consider a similar utility for ‘Clone Boy’ and ‘Wider Boy Pro’. Naturally, such a utility is not FREE. The cost of this utility is $15.95. To obtain this utility, just drop an email to info@elevayta.com and, if you have already purchased a license for ‘FreEq Boy’ you will be provided with further purchase details and conditions for the RTU.

When people see this I think they´ll say:

Cool, really great plugins for a fantastic price. Oh, but they can only be installed on one machine - if you want it on more, you need to pay more money for the software.

I think that when someone purchases a product, he should be able to use it on as many of his computers as possible.
If he wanted to distribute it to his friends or abuse his license in other ways, he could just get an illegal copy from a p2p program in the first place.
So you just don´t prevent any piracy by selling a plugin which will only work on one machine, you just annoy your customers.

PS: I really liked Clone Boy, and consider buying it one day - I just don´t any use for it at the moment. And then if I buy it, I´d not really mind the one machine only license thing, cause I don´t need more. But I´d still find it a bit strange to realize that my freedom for private usage is limited to one machine, and therefore I think that the only thing this thing does is sending out a negative signal to your customers.

Consider this:

Customers who bought Elevayta products, as part of the purchase process, have to acknowledge that they understand that the license is hardware specific. This issue has been raised continuously in many of my postings and it has been no secret. There is no ambiguity about this.

A number of customers bought more than one license for more than one computer (yes there are people that do this - and I am grateful for that). Of course, I know those customers and they get the RTU for free.

As I have previously stated, the price for a single license of $12.95 is that way because I based my model on people buying more than one license in case they want to run on more than one computer.

Now, in response to demand, from people that don't like hardware specific licensing, I have introduced a further licensing possibility. Effectively, it goes like this:

• If you only want one license and you are not too concerned about a hardware specific license key then you can obtain a single license for $12.95.
  
  
• If you want two fixed licenses then you pay $25.90
  
  
• If you would like to use the product freely across multiple computers then it costs $28.90.
  

In order to be consistent (and fair) to my customers that already bought multiple licenses, I provide the RTU freely to them.

Simply put, there are a number of price levels depending upon your needs and resources.

So, I am not asking my customers to pay twice, they know what they already have. It's just that, to be able to run my product (currently only 'FreEq Boy') on more than one computer (as many as you like) I charge $28.90. Which, so I am told, is still relatively inexpensive.

Most other products which have been quoted as fine examples of licensing behavior tend to cost considerably more than $28.90.

Nothing has changed except I provided more options, in response to a demand, strangely enough, from people that don't buy my products anyway.

Quote:

in response to a demand, strangely enough, from people that don't buy my products anyway.

LOL. That's your fate if you post on the KvR

topaz wrote:

all very very bizzare im sorry to say. it would make so much more sense to just sell the software at a keen price and have a serial to install. it works for just about every other thriving dev so it will for you. nobody wants to be messing about with fiddly registration methods. of coarse this is just my opinion.

At this point, there is practically nothing different to how people can go about registering 'FreEq Boy' as they do any other plug-in that uses a registration utility (and that is standard for some of the more popular developers).

However, these other plug-ins cost more partially to offset the fact that they will be used across multiple computers. In that sense, and since I am told that my plug-ins are a steal (as well as the fact that they also get stolen) I'm just following suit.

I don't see any problem with giving people options. I'm not forcing anyone to buy.

If you read correctly, you should know that I am only running the RTU as a trial on 'FreEq Boy'. If all goes well, then I will open up the option for my other plug-ins and consider to make it normal for future plug-ins (but they will be more expensive).

amoebe wrote:

Quote: in response to a demand, strangely enough, from people that don't buy my products anyway. LOL. That's your fate if you post on the KvR

What does 'LOL' mean?

LOL - Laughing Out Loud

I do not see why this is? I will pay if this hardware specific key is going away. There are many products that do the same as your products without this hassle.

You are are receiving comments from people who wish to be customers but will not, because of the copy protection.

You know your plugin are stolen. Why do you punish the people who do and wish to buy them? This hassle has not stopped the stealing, and I see you know this.

wow, I really don't know what the fuss is. Do you realize his stuff costs 13 bucks? For plugs that are clearly of solid quality and very useful.

13 dollars.

So, if you have two computers, and you want to use on both (an option that many companies don't allow, but cost several hundred and even thousand dollars) you spend 26 bucks... still dirt cheap.

So then, people cry about it, and so he makes it so that for 28 dollars (yes, still cheaper than almost any other commercial plugins) you can use it on 50 different computers if that suits you. I only have one computer, most of the people here only have one that they use for music. If you get a new one, he will fix your single license for you. Will the big companies do that? Maybe. But it's gonna take you weeks to get them to, most likely. And if you are paranoid, get the utility, it still cost you less than thirty dollars. It is so reasonable in my opinion that I am really confused about the problems people are having. If it cost 130 rather than 13, then sure... but it's thirteen!!!! see? And if it is still just too unreasonable, you can just download it from kazaa, right? won't cost you a thing, and you can use it on both your computer and your mom's computer.

Thankyou Spoonboiler

You hit the nail right on the head (especially the paranoid bit)! Hope you didn't dent your spoon.

spoonboiler wrote:

wow, I really don't know what the fuss is. Do you realize his stuff costs 13 bucks? For plugs that are clearly of solid quality and very useful. 13 dollars. So, if you have two computers, and you want to use on both (an option that many companies don't allow, but cost several hundred and even thousand dollars) you spend 26 bucks... still dirt cheap. So then, people cry about it, and so he makes it so that for 28 dollars (yes, still cheaper than almost any other commercial plugins) you can use it on 50 different computers if that suits you. I only have one computer, most of the people here only have one that they use for music. If you get a new one, he will fix your single license for you. Will the big companies do that? Maybe. But it's gonna take you weeks to get them to, most likely. And if you are paranoid, get the utility, it still cost you less than thirty dollars. It is so reasonable in my opinion that I am really confused about the problems people are having. If it cost 130 rather than 13, then sure... but it's thirteen!!!! see? And if it is still just too unreasonable, you can just download it from kazaa, right? won't cost you a thing, and you can use it on both your computer and your mom's computer.

Why should I pay any money to add hassle to me? My few minutes is worth more than 15$ i think. If the developer has this little respect of my time I have little respect in return.

This is mostly when it is said by the developer the licensing does not help stop pirates. This means it must be no more than to waste away my time that is very valuable.

It maybe also said my if my time is valuable then why do I argue this? Good question. The fight for freedom is always more interesting than just living happily as you can.

Alive In Chernobyl wrote:

Why should I pay any money to add hassle to me? My few minutes is worth more than 15$ i think. If the developer has this little respect of my time I have little respect in return. This is mostly when it is said by the developer the licensing does not help stop pirates. This means it must be no more than to waste away my time that is very valuable. It maybe also said my if my time is valuable then why do I argue this? Good question. The fight for freedom is always more interesting than just living happily as you can.

With this kind of attitude, you should spend your money elsewhere - in fact, read that as a request.

I would say this:
You buy one license and do it what you want.
Run it on 50 computers if you want to but dont give away to anyone else.

Be nice to your cusomers,the ones that are willing to pay for your products and the rest will take care of itself.

Quote:

If you would like to use the product freely across multiple computers then it costs $28.90.

Ok this I will do (4 computers in all) - but I'm not clear on how this works. It evidently isn't hardware-locked right? So what do you give a serial for that licensing scheme? Or a secured download-thing? Sorry if I missed something. I'll definitely take FreEQ for this price and licensing. Tell me how to buy and install and I'm there.

see the bitheadz thread for more info on hardware locked challange and response software.

or check www.bitheadz.de

if the site is down and you can't get a responce for your new serial number when you add a new hard-drive.

try again later.

Wide Boy wrote:

Nothing has changed except I provided more options, in response to a demand, strangely enough, from people that don't buy my products anyway.

This is rediculous. You want us to pay than twice the amount of the original plug for basically a beta app that will do something with an existing hardware code?

Bitheadz dissolution is a perfect example that was made in a different thread we discussed a few weeks ago. I'm sure THEY initially had no intention of fleecing thier user base, but now they're gone.

For all the trouble of coding an esoteric hardware transfer application, charge a few more dollars for the plug & make it a simple serial then forget about what they do what gets done with em. I mean, how many machines do you think we have? Most users will have 2 machines at best. Even NI allows users to register to 2 machines..

Cracks are cracks, they're gonna be everywhere with or without challenge/response, this really does come across as making legit users bear the brunt of piracy. I would buy ALL your plugs RIGHT NOW if you eliminated all this crazy stuff.

You're a smart guy, I've said it before & I really would like to use your stuff. I think your decision is not in tandem with your intellegence.

Having said that, are you gonna 'request' I take my business elsewhere as well?

Wide Boy wrote:

Alive In Chernobyl wrote: Why should I pay any money to add hassle to me? My few minutes is worth more than 15$ i think. If the developer has this little respect of my time I have little respect in return. This is mostly when it is said by the developer the licensing does not help stop pirates. This means it must be no more than to waste away my time that is very valuable. It maybe also said my if my time is valuable then why do I argue this? Good question. The fight for freedom is always more interesting than just living happily as you can. With this kind of attitude, you should spend your money elsewhere - in fact, read that as a request.

I have to say, I don't have an issue with the way that the licenses work. I own and use all of Elevayta products. As spoonboiler pointed out, they cost 13 dollars each. You can have an infinite number for less than 30 dollars. I really don't see what there is to complain about.

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48064&highlight=bitheadz

ezeeboogie wrote:

I really don't see what there is to complain about.

Bitheadz was just a wee bigger than Elevayta..

and an even bigger amount of dead software on
re-install no doubt.

sickle666 wrote:

Bitheadz was just a wee bigger than Elevayta..

topaz wrote:

and an even bigger amount of dead software on re-install no doubt. sickle666 wrote: Bitheadz was just a wee bigger than Elevayta..

I remember once IK website goes down. All hell breaks loose!

Of course the extra time to transfer key information to one computer from the other.

Topaz, Sickle666 & Alive - Guys!

My experience is not in line with your complaints.

I don't need to disclose information about my customer base to you, but as you can read from this thread, those customers that commented appear to be happy and fully understanding of the conditions of purchase and the value for money of the products they have bought.

Clearly, you guys don't value my products highly enough. And, quite frankly, I can't help that.

If you already owned two licenses for one of my products and I suddenly turned round and gave everybody else a free license, you would then stand up and rant on about how bad that was.

The fact is, by offering such a flexibility, I am protecting the interests of, not only, my customers who bought one license, but those that bought two! I am actually taking care of my customers interests first - as I tend to do.

Did the penny drop yet?

That post had nothing to do with what we are saying.

That is all I can figure out is that you do not understand our complaint?

you are talking to someone who buys and has helped develop lots of plugins.

im just saying you are losing possible potential (customers) by having C+R protection.

if you don't understand that I give up.

Wide Boy wrote:

Topaz, Sickle666 & Alive - Guys! My experience is not in line with your complaints. I don't need to disclose information about my customer base to you, but as you can read from this thread, those customers that commented appear to be happy and fully understanding of the conditions of purchase and the value for money of the products they have bought. Clearly, you guys don't value my products highly enough. And, quite frankly, I can't help that. If you already owned two licenses for one of my products and I suddenly turned round and gave everybody else a free license, you would then stand up and rant on about how bad that was. The fact is, by offering such a flexibility, I am protecting the interests of, not only, my customers who bought one license, but those that bought two! I am actually taking care of my customers interests first - as I tend to do. Did the penny drop yet?

topaz wrote:

you are talking to someone who buys and has helped develop lots of plugins. im just saying you are losing possible potential (customers) by having C+R protection. if you don't understand that I give up.

As I said, my existing customers come first. I have listened to your complaints and answered your concerns. My solution, to provide a flexible licensing tool for 'FreEq Boy', is no different than you will find in any plug-in from, say, Voxengo.

You simply don't like the fact that I charge $28 for the flexibility rather than the $13. In fact, your point of reference is wrong - it starts at $13 rather than $26.

Every feature of a product has a cost. Like I said, there are people who value the product enough to pay $13, as it is, and there are others who have paid $26 for more than one license. $28, an increase of just $2, is not a significant increase to go from two licenses to an unlimited license (and existing multi-license customers of 'FreEq Boy' don't have to pay the difference).

You forget that all my customers got 'FreEq Boy' for free when they bought one of my products. All those customers have been ugraded to the latest version of all products. So, they actually paid $13 and got two plug-ins + full support.

hello. it's not the price.

Voxengo does not use C+R as far as I know.

from voxengo web site

NOTE: After you purchase the product you become a registered user for that product. You will be sent that product's registration number that you have to enter to unlock all product's features.

it doesn't say anything about Challenge.

perhaps more people would buy your products if it wasn't for the protection method you use.

but it's your shop, run it how you want.


actually im now confused, the kvr link reads
copy protection=serial number.

but if when you change any hardware in your system you have to recontact the author, or your tied to your author for re-registration

that is known Challenge and response.

cheers
topaz

Wide Boy wrote:

As I said, my existing customers come first. I have listened to your complaints and answered your concerns. My solution, to provide a flexible licensing tool for 'FreEq Boy', is no different than you will find in any plug-in from, say, Voxengo. You simply don't like the fact that I charge $28 for the flexibility rather than the $13. In fact, your point of reference is wrong - it starts at $13 rather than $26. Every feature of a product has a cost. Like I said, there are people who value the product enough to pay $13, as it is, and there are others who have paid $26 for more than one license. $28, an increase of just $2, is not a significant increase to go from two licenses to an unlimited license (and existing multi-license customers of 'FreEq Boy' don't have to pay the difference). You forget that all my customers got 'FreEq Boy' for free when they bought one of my products. All those customers have been ugraded to the latest version of all products. So, they actually paid $13 and got two plug-ins + full support.

Voxengo give you serial number that is good forever for that product. If the author dies, it still works forever.

I am interested in buying this plugins, but I would like to protect my purchase. I also do not like spending extra time to move between my DAW and the computer connected to the internet to register a plugin!

I just fired up one of my Antares plugs & without reformatting ro anything I now have to re-authorize BOTH plugs..

Bitheadz has bit the dust, etc, etc.

You DO ask a very reasonable amount for your products, & I can see they're clearly well designed & implemented, so that leaves me very confused why the obfuscation over registration..& you insinuate you went to the trouble of developing this 'thing' I've never heard of any other developer using on account of OUR complaints. This has just made the road to using your stuff even longer. I'll pay you 3x your asking price for a simple serial #, & I'll get the whole product line just to put my money where my mouth is.

I'm finished with hardware challenge/response. Don't sweat it as I'm just one customer, & you're not the only company I'm not going to be employing over this issue. I mean, do I have to buy a friggin Receptor to get away from this authorization crap?

[I'm done bitching, I very much respect your attempt to make everyone happy, but the method does not work for me.]

topaz wrote:

from voxengo web site NOTE: After you purchase the product you become a registered user for that product. You will be sent that product's registration number that you have to enter to unlock all product's features.

If you have ever used a product from Voxengo, you should know that, in order to buy it, you first need to connect online to fill in your details and pay (the challenge part).

Having done that you need to run a little utility that is supplied with the download. This utility (the registration tool) asks for your name and a serial number (the key) that has been supplied to you after you paid (the response part).

After entering your details it then prompts you to open the plug-in to see if it was successfully registered. You need to repeat this registration process (i.e. run the utility and enter key) for every computer that you want to install.


In my products, in the single license situation, I have no seperate registration tool, this is all handled within the plug-in itself.

The utility that I have now made (RTU) for 'FreEq Boy' is nothing more than a registration tool which allows your one obtained license to be entered on any computer in order to register 'FreEq Boy' on that computer. The fact that I give it a name (RTU) does not change the fact that it allows you to use one license key/serial number for any computer - even if the developer disappears and you don't have an internet connection. All you need to do is keep a copy of, the utility, your license key and the installcode that was used to obtain that key.

Hardly different, in final analysis, to what you need to do with, say, a Voxengo plug-in.

So you do not use C+R then. Voxengo uses serial protection.

I think you do not understand what C+R is. You get a number from the plugin. You enter this plugin at a webpage, or call. This gives you a new number to authorize this plugin. If your machine changes then the authorize number does not work. You then need to contact with the new machine number to get a new authorize number.

If you just buy the plugin, and receive an authorize number it is great. I will buy right away. This is standard serial protection. If this is what you are doing, you are scarying away customers by calling it C+R!

I think I understand this right and you do not use C+R. I apologize for my statements if so. Only if it is really C+R do I have a complaint. I thank you for the time you spend to explain this to potential customers.

Alive In Chernobyl wrote:

You get a number from the plugin. You enter this plugin at a webpage, or call. This gives you a new number to authorize this plugin. If your machine changes then the authorize number does not work. You then need to contact with the new machine number to get a new authorize number.

A single license key for 'FreEq Boy' is machine specific (obtained as you describe above) unless you buy also the licensing application (RTU), which allows you to then use this license on any machine - I can't say it clearer than that.

Also, I have never referred to my licensing method as C+R, others have done that. Whatever it's called, I provide the possibility to make the obtained single license for 'FreEq Boy' fully transferable without my intervention - I called that the RTU and it costs $15.95.

If this turns out to be popular, then I will provide a similar option for my other plug-ins and all future plug-ins.

Make no mistake, $12.95 buys a single license key and, without the RTU, this license key can only be used on the computer that was used to provide the Installcode. If the machine changes, you need to contact me to obtain a new key.

Please note that, instead of using the machine specific Installcode, the Voxengo products probably use your name or some other information with which to generate a license key. In any case, the license key will be traceable to the owner in some way.

truly bizzare.

Wide Boy wrote:

Alive In Chernobyl wrote: You get a number from the plugin. You enter this plugin at a webpage, or call. This gives you a new number to authorize this plugin. If your machine changes then the authorize number does not work. You then need to contact with the new machine number to get a new authorize number. A single license key for 'FreEq Boy' is machine specific (obtained as you describe above) unless you buy also the licensing application (RTU), which allows you to then use this license on any machine - I can't say it clearer than that. Also, I have never referred to my licensing method as C+R, others have done that. Whatever it's called, I provide the possibility to make the obtained single license for 'FreEq Boy' fully transferable without my intervention - I called that the RTU and it costs $15.95. If this turns out to be popular, then I will provide a similar option for my other plug-ins and all future plug-ins. Make no mistake, $12.95 buys a single license key and, without the RTU, this license key can only be used on the computer that was used to provide the Installcode. If the machine changes, you need to contact me to obtain a new key. Please note that, instead of using the machine specific Installcode, the Voxengo products probably use your name or some other information with which to generate a license key. In any case, the license key will be traceable to the owner in some way.

topaz wrote:

truly bizzare. Wide Boy wrote: Alive In Chernobyl wrote: You get a number from the plugin. You enter this plugin at a webpage, or call. This gives you a new number to authorize this plugin. If your machine changes then the authorize number does not work. You then need to contact with the new machine number to get a new authorize number. A single license key for 'FreEq Boy' is machine specific (obtained as you describe above) unless you buy also the licensing application (RTU), which allows you to then use this license on any machine - I can't say it clearer than that. Also, I have never referred to my licensing method as C+R, others have done that. Whatever it's called, I provide the possibility to make the obtained single license for 'FreEq Boy' fully transferable without my intervention - I called that the RTU and it costs $15.95. If this turns out to be popular, then I will provide a similar option for my other plug-ins and all future plug-ins. Make no mistake, $12.95 buys a single license key and, without the RTU, this license key can only be used on the computer that was used to provide the Installcode. If the machine changes, you need to contact me to obtain a new key. Please note that, instead of using the machine specific Installcode, the Voxengo products probably use your name or some other information with which to generate a license key. In any case, the license key will be traceable to the owner in some way.

why?

I just think it's great and innovative

jens wrote:

I just think it's great and innovative

thats what they said about
banning the use of cannabis.



yeh it's a great inovative idea, that great, that unless these products ever get serial protection they wont get used by me and many others.

now im outa here for good.

(cya in southport Jens)

topaz wrote:

jens wrote: I just think it's great and innovative thats what they said about banning the use of cannabis. yeh it's a great inovative idea, that great, that unless these products ever get serial protection they wont get used by me and many others. now im outa here for good. (cya in southport Jens)

Please, lets not talk about this at Southport!

I'll probably see you there too topaz!

jens wrote:

why? I just think it's great and innovative

Jens - what can I say? - I try my best, but you just can't seem to please some people.

Thanks!

don't worry,

bizzare copy protection schemes will be the last thing I want to talk about.

ezeeboogie wrote:

[ Please, lets not talk about this at Southport! I'll probably see you there too topaz!