Hi,

So far I have been able to keep my system from being infected with PACE, and I intend to keep it that way.

So as I was getting ready to purchase Antares Auto-Tune 4, I was quite dissapointed to find out that it uses the PACE copy protection virus .

So, are there any alternatives to Auto-Tune 4 that does not use PACE that people can recommend?

Thanks in advance...

BitFlipper

I think the Oberheim OB Tunde uses the antares algos but not the pace files.... not sure though

here's some info....

it's DirectX only as it seems but it's only $39

http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=998

multree wrote:

I think the Oberheim OB Tunde uses the antares algos but not the pace files.... not sure though

NO! OB-Tune uses pace.

ebinary wrote:

multree wrote: I think the Oberheim OB Tunde uses the antares algos but not the pace files.... not sure though NO! OB-Tune uses pace.

Damn! And it looked so promising too...

Any other suggestions?

BitFlipper

wtf pace on a $39 software ??? this world has gone mad

Cheap ones:
Akai Pitch right......if you can find it.

RBC Voice tweaker.

Much more expensinve:
Yamaha Pitch fix is an option. I'm not 100% sure whether it uses PACE or not.

So I looked at the Voice Tweaker website, but it's not clear if it uses PACE or not. My feeling is that it does not (seems a bit shareware-ish, but not in a bad way).

The main problem I have with it is that their web-page seems quite out of date. The last "news" item they posted was back in 2001. Is this company still active?

Does anyone else use any of these the plugins? Voice tweaker Lite, Voice Tweaker DXi or Voice Tweaker Pro? And how do they compare with Auto-Tune 4?

BitFlipper

If you have a powercore, you should consider Intonator HS, It's Amazing...

good luck

Armadillo wrote:

Cheap ones: Akai Pitch right......if you can find it.

www.thomann.de, 51 eur.

k

From the Antares site:

"Are Antares plug-ins compatible with the iLok USB smart key?
At the moment, Antares plug-ins do not support iLok. However, we will soon be releasing a maintanence release of Auto-Tune 4 that will be iLok compatible. Our other plug-ins (Mac OS X and PC only) will eventually be updated for iLok campatibility as well. Watch our web site News page for release information."

Don't forget to check out the Antares bundle at bhphotovideo.com. Even if you don't want the extras you can sell them.

somewhat other concepts:

leapfrog rephrase

celemony melodyne (which is, what I use)

BitFlipper wrote:

So I looked at the Voice Tweaker website, but it's not clear if it uses PACE or not. My feeling is that it does not (seems a bit shareware-ish, but not in a bad way). The main problem I have with it is that their web-page seems quite out of date. The last "news" item they posted was back in 2001. Is this company still active? Does anyone else use any of these the plugins? Voice tweaker Lite, Voice Tweaker DXi or Voice Tweaker Pro? And how do they compare with Auto-Tune 4? BitFlipper

it doesn't use pace, but it's a POS nevertheless

has anyone used that akai plug? - I checked out the demo but they sound very artificial to me - but that might be because of harsh settings.

Can you be subtle with it?

Kind regards

Dave Rich.

don't own poco intonator but heard it a couple times, its *very* smooth

HI

Thing is the guy appears to want to spend $50-$300 NOT $800!!!

Flipper.

Ah, we meet again...

BitFlipper, meet Original Flipper

Anyway, yes, more than $300 would be out of my range. Even that is pushing it.

I don't have powercore, and this is to use within Sonar 4 (so either DXi or VSTi would be fine).

Although it's completely out of my price range, I saw Celemony Melodyne and it looks pretty good. Wonder how it compares to Auto-Tune 4 and if it uses PACE...? They also have "educational" and some sort of "lite" versions that cost less but I have learned my lesson as far as crippled versions of plugins go. They cripple it just enough that can't really use it in a practical way so that you end up forcing yourself to upgrade to the full version anyway.

Well, I'll keep looking. Thanks for all tips and also for any future advice anyone can give me.

BitFlipper

An "alternative" would be to not use auto-tune at all. *cough*

Heh.

I might be 0ldsk00l, but even though studio has Autotune (v3 iirc) I never use it. If anything is sufficiently offkey to warrant a fix I'll just use a sampler and whatever pitchbend wheel is handy.
Been doing that since I got my 12 bit emax with noone the wiser.

IMHO autotune and it's ilk makes tracks sound unnaturally perfect and decidedly boring. Besides show me a perfect welltempered chromatic singer and I'll show you a lame proggy that knits phonetics together in order to dehumanize music.

Duh.

I totally agree on the PACE issue though...

Guckli wrote:

Heh. I might be 0ldsk00l, but even though studio has Autotune (v3 iirc) I never use it. If anything is sufficiently offkey to warrant a fix I'll just use a sampler and whatever pitchbend wheel is handy. Been doing that since I got my 12 bit emax with noone the wiser. IMHO autotune and it's ilk makes tracks sound unnaturally perfect and decidedly boring. Besides show me a perfect welltempered chromatic singer and I'll show you a lame proggy that knits phonetics together in order to dehumanize music. Duh. I totally agree on the PACE issue though...

Sure if you are doing blues and jazz, but if you are doing Euro trance and mainstream pop it's a nessecity. I bet 80%+ of all chart hits uses Autotune or similar these days.

FYI I'm doing Reggae, Ska & Funk bandwise, and the odd poptune + some electronica on my own. Some jazz, but only improvising, since it's not my thing really, but it's a great "workout" for an 0ldsk00l keyboardist (the kind that actually plays piano).
I've been involved in some other stuff (let's call it eurotrash, I needed the money...), but still Autotune and it's ilk has been left untouched.
Sorry if I sound elitist, that's not my mission. Venting my opinions here, and the sound of autotune is grating on my nerves.

each to his own. For me autotune is like a reverb or delay.

I'm not surprised when you say Reggae, funk and ska, that goes under the "blues and jazz" category IMO. If you had said DnB, pop, Garage, House, RnB on the other hand I would have been surprised.

Different folk different strokes.

Well, I was hoping this would not turn into an elitist "why don't you just learn how to sing in tune" flamewar. Oh well....

Thing is, I have a full time job (not involving music), and I certainly don't have enough free time to take singing lessons and practice to become "perfect" at singing.

My question to these people would be: So you are on KvR. That makes me assume you own some software that you use to create your music. Can you play all those instruments perfectly that you so painstakingly perfect in your host? Piano, harp, organ, guitar, bass, violin, flute, drums, etc? To me singing is another instrument. I will do what I can to make it sound as good as possible by itself, but I have no illusions that I will ever sing perfectly in tune. For that last bit I will use the tools that are available to get a decent result.

And of course, that does not even touch the subject that these pitch shifting plugins can be used to create some really interesting effects that you cannot create with just your voice.

Or something...

BitFlipper

Akai Pitchright has no copyright protection (except maybe checking the CD when you install) and is on for only $59 at a bunch of places.

Yeah, AKAI has only CD check during install.

There are some demo mp3's of that plugin at http://www.akaipro.com/us/vst.html

HI

I wonder if you can get a demo of the Akai plug - its cheap but I have had enough of wasting money on software - even this cheap.

'MrM' could you not post a link to a few mp3's?

Oh hello Bitflipper .

Flipper.

Yea, there's some choices, alright. Problem is anything that seems like it has a decent set of features are quite expensive. I'm sure I don't need that many features, but they are tempting after watching some demo videos. I just watched this one from Melodyne:

http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/Demos.html

Check out the video. Yea, probably overkill for what I need but it looks oh-so-much-fun to do all those cool things! They have a crippled version (Melodyne Cre8), but $370 for a crippled version is way too much for me . I can live with most of the crippled features but the 1 level only undo is pretty limiting.

I'd love to know if there was an Akai Pitchright demo too. What is the results like with Pitchright? And can one use it to create harmonies by playing a whole midi chord into it?

BitFlipper

Sure you can download a demo, at http://www.pek.ch/Produkte/akai/plugins/vst_pitchright.htm

If you can't read German ; just click where the word DEMO is... MAC on the left and PC on the right

BUT remember to make a good back up / ghost of your computer; I tried the vocoder demo, and bought the product, but couldn't register it untill I went back to my previous ghost.
I also heard that there are updates available - upon request per email to akaipro usa - to avoid this installation trouble caused by Windows XP.

I have tried the DC vocoder now, and it works good for me. It uses no PACE, so pitchright will also not use PACE. A good price for the AKAI plugins can be found at thomanns, I think a link was given in one of the first posts...

HI

This is interesting to me as well - I have some vox to record for a project and see a need for some help in the tuning department!

Anyway Melodyne appears to come in several 'Flavours' and over at thomann they are doing several - the one that is VERY interesting is 'CELEMONY MELODYNE UNO'which is a 1 track only version @ £94.56/ 139Euros.

Having watched the demo melodyne appears a lot easier to use than antares.

It is a bit unclear though what the difference is between the CRE8 and the Studio edition - if its just track count and the higher 192Khz resolution then that is not a lot to loose out on and @ £237.42 for the CRE8 that is pretty good going .

Flipper.

BitFlipper wrote:

Well, I was hoping this would not turn into an elitist "why don't you just learn how to sing in tune" flamewar. Oh well....

Stop going all defensive on me guys; Even David Gahan 1981 sings better than I do, and my voice makes Lemmy sound like Kiri Te Kanawa by comparison to boot. So _when I sing_ I cheat a lot with pitchshifting and effects. Lots of effects... So all I'm doing here is advocating the use of other tools instead for that particular function.

BitFlipper wrote:

Thing is, I have a full time job (not involving music), and I certainly don't have enough free time to take singing lessons and practice to become "perfect" at singing.

Got a full time job too not involving music either (but a heck of a lot computers). On top of that I have two boys, age 8 and 2, who incidentally loves to hear daddy sing. Go figure...
Singing lessons? You must be barking mad.

BitFlipper wrote:

My question to these people would be: So you are on KvR. That makes me assume you own some software that you use to create your music. Can you play all those instruments perfectly that you so painstakingly perfect in your host? Piano, harp, organ, guitar, bass, violin, flute, drums, etc? To me singing is another instrument. I will do what I can to make it sound as good as possible by itself, but I have no illusions that I will ever sing perfectly in tune. For that last bit I will use the tools that are available to get a decent result.

No such thing as perfect but as to what I play: Yes, no, yes, yes, rudimentarily yes, no, no and no + a couple of et ceteras. And then we agree (again).

BitFlipper wrote:

And of course, that does not even touch the subject that these pitch shifting plugins can be used to create some really interesting effects that you cannot create with just your voice.

Yeah, but they're overused. By any right at least the usual "hardtuned flat robo effect" should have gone out of fashion long ago. Don't know where you hail from, but do you remember The Olsen Twins that won the Eurovision Song Contest with "Fly On The Wings Of Love" a couple years ago? I'm danish, mate; I feel perfectly entitled to friggin hate that effect, since it brings all those bad memories of a year where I couldn't go anywhere without hearing it

But that's just me.

Or something...

Sorry, didn't mean to sound defensive. I just don't like it when some people (not you obviously, and no-one in this thread either) believes that if one can't sing 100% in tune that one has to pack up and find something else to do. Again, no-one in this thread seems to have that attitude so that is cool.

The thing is that most other methods of pitch shifting are very time consuming to get it right as those tools were not designed with singing use in mind.

original flipper wrote:

Quote:

It is a bit unclear though what the difference is between the CRE8 and the Studio edition - if its just track count and the higher 192Khz resolution then that is not a lot to loose out on and @ £237.42 for the CRE8 that is pretty good going .

You are right about those differences, but the one that bugs me the most is the 1 level undo only. The studio version has a 500 level undo. I imagine with this kind of tweakability one would often try out multiple tweaks to see how it would change things, but now you can't go back if you decide you don't like it. It's one of those features designed to annoy you till you say... OK, I've had enought, I guess I'll need to upgrade to get rid of this limitation.

Or something...

BTW Gukli, I would certainly not want to get that "hardtuned flat robo effect" as you describe. It seems to me you get that effect by going crazy with the settings, and I feel your pain as far as that effect goes. Personally I'd like the results to sound as natural as possible. All of the more advance pitch correcting plugins allow you a lot of control over how it preserves vibrato etc, and you certainly are not forced into hard quantizing to notes at all.

BitFlipper

HI

After watching the Melodyne video I would say that the program is a SERIOUS tool - Iv'e been playing with the demo which has lots of tutorials and besides yer vox it can do all kinds of things .

I can't sing for shit so this would be a definite from my usual pitching up an octave to get remarks like " Oh your wifes got a nice voice!" !

Flipper.

So I went against my own better judgment and installed the Auto-Tune 4 demo. I figured that they must have fixed PACE to the point that it no longer should cause issues, right? And I figured that if Auto-Tune turns out to be really good then I would just shoot myself in the foot by not at least trying it out. And besides, I found websites that describe how to completely remove PACE from your computer. Well that was the theory at least.

So after I installed the demo (and hesitantly accepting the warning about the PACE virus that was about to be installed on my system), I tried it out in Sonar.

First trouble showed up when I got the nag screen after loading it up, that had an hourglass cursor that just stayed like that. I waited and waited but Sonar and Auto-Tune was locked up. Sonar was taking up 0% CPU so I figured Auto-Tune wasn’t doing some processing that I had to wait for. Only way was to End-Task Sonar and load it up again. Same thing. After the 3rd or 4th try, it finally got past the nag screen and I was in business...

Until the dialog box you see above popped up. "Error: No error occurred". Good to know. Except the second I close the dialog box, another one pops up. Endlessly. Great. Had to End-Task Sonar again. Went through the same thing about 3 times till I decided it wasn’t worth it.

Good thing I didn't buy the full version without trying this demo 1st. I have not tried to uninstall it yet, but I will get to that probably tomorrow.

I guess that leaves Melodyne and Akai Pitchright. I tried Pitchright but I'd love a little bit more control. Anyone know when Melodyne Uno is going to ship? I can't find any info on that, and it's way past the dates they said it would ship.

Anyway, that was my fun experience with Auto-Tune 4. I can't believe that POS software is so highly regarded. I've installed many shareware-type plugins and none of them was this unstable.

BitFlipper

Guckli wrote:

Yeah, but they're overused. By any right at least the usual "hardtuned flat robo effect" should have gone out of fashion long ago. Don't know where you hail from, but do you remember The Olsen Twins that won the Eurovision Song Contest with "Fly On The Wings Of Love" a couple years ago? I'm danish, mate; I feel perfectly entitled to friggin hate that effect, since it brings all those bad memories of a year where I couldn't go anywhere without hearing it

That crappy effect is on the new Jill Scott record, too. (it sucks with or without it anyway)

TabSel mentioned us already, but our upcoming product: Leapfrog Audio - Rephrase works great for correcting pitch, automatically or manually via easy to use splines.

It's a great price compared to most other pitch editing software, and does LOTS more than just pitch changing too..

http://www.leapfrogaudio.com/Rephrase.aspx

Justin
Leapfrog Audio
www.leapfrogaudio.com

Forgot to mention.. there's no PACE copy protection in Rephrase

Justin
Leapfrog Audio
www.leapfrogaudio.com

HI

Will rephrase be off line or will it work as a vst?

Flipper.

ebinary wrote:

multree wrote: I think the Oberheim OB Tunde uses the antares algos but not the pace files.... not sure though NO! OB-Tune uses pace.

I've been all over the MusicYo Obtune site and I can't find a mention of PACE anywhere. Not even in the PDF manual, which includes the installation instructions.

At $39, it seems like a must buy...

original flipper wrote:

Will rephrase be off line or will it work as a vst?

Rephrase works purely as a VSTi.

Justin
Leapfrog Audio
www.leapfrogaudio.com

SecondSkin wrote:

I've been all over the MusicYo Obtune site and I can't find a mention of PACE anywhere. Not even in the PDF manual, which includes the installation instructions. At $39, it seems like a must buy...

Try it at http://obtune.musicyo.com/register/
You can dowload it there, you'll notice what CR system they try to make you deal with.

At least when I downloaded it today, during the install I got this screen:

Well, I was finally able to get a short amount of testing time out of the POS demo of Auto-Tune I installed, so now I have an idea of how it compares to Melodyne. All I can say is that it doesn't. If anyone thinks Auto-Tune is cool, then you will be blown away by Melodyne .

Melodyne goes a few steps further and actually seperates each "phrase" into a "note" that you can manupilate as easily as a midi note in a piano roll view . Yes, you can slide them in time, quantize it to the beat, stretch it out, adjust each phrase's volume, etc. This is in addition to all the powerful pitch manupilating abilities. And it's very transparent. If you have not seen it, check out the video demo of Melodyne. And no, I don't work for Celemony, I'm just impressed by their product. And it uses no PACE, at least from what I could tell when I installed the demo.

Only thing about Melodyne is that I'm not sure how well it integrates with a host. The demo I have does not seem to include the bridging software they mention, that supposedly makes it possible to use as a plugin. Sounds like it's just a link to the two seperate apps. Anyone with experience with this?

And does anyone know if their upcoming Melodyne Uno version will be one instance only, since it claims it's one track only, I wonder what prevents one from adding it to multiple tracks in a host. Anyway, I'd love to find out more about that product.

BitFlipper

This morning I tried to start Sonar but it kept freezing while loading. I then decided to uninstall the Auto-Tune 4 demo. But after I uninstalled it, I noticed it conveniently left behind the PACE driver. How nice... .

I followed the instructions I found online to uninstall PACE and to remove all traces of it from your system.

After all that Sonar is now finally stable again.

BitFlipper

justin_leapfrog wrote:

TabSel mentioned us already, but our upcoming product: Leapfrog Audio - Rephrase works great for correcting pitch, automatically or manually via easy to use splines. It's a great price compared to most other pitch editing software, and does LOTS more than just pitch changing too.. http://www.leapfrogaudio.com/Rephrase.aspx Justin Leapfrog Audio www.leapfrogaudio.com

Justin,

Sorry, not sure why I didn't take a closer look at your product. From the description from your website it seems as if it's very close to what I'm looking for in fact. I just have a few questions:

1) I am not sure if you are familiar with Melodyne, but can you also shift/stretch the phrases around in time as easily as you can with Melodyne? Looks like it actually, but not sure.

2) Are there going to be any instance limitations? For instance, how many total tracks can you have it on at the same time?

3) Would you be able to create harmonies by duplicating the pitch trace to say, below and above the current one? I guess one can have multiple tracks with a different pitch if this was not possible in one instance.

4) Do you have a demo available? When?

5) When will it ship? I am antsy to buy a voice tuner but at the same time I am really interested in your product.

Edit: Ah, it says early November. Is this still the expected ship time? I guess I can hold out for a month...

Thanks in advance for all your help.

BitFlipper

Hi BitFlipper

In answer to your questions

BitFlipper wrote:

1) I am not sure if you are familiar with Melodyne, but can you also shift/stretch the phrases around in time as easily as you can with Melodyne? Looks like it actually, but not sure.

It's just as easy, but a bit different. Rephrase exports audio to midi (drag n drop) so you don't move the notes around directly in the Rephrase window, but in the midi edit window of your host.

There are lots of stretching options, you can auto-sync the stretch to your hosts tempo, set a manual stretch amount, or stretch each note individually. There is also a stretch window which allows you to stretch notes more in their centre, so the attacks remain intackt - useful to extend durations.

BitFlipper wrote:

2) Are there going to be any instance limitations? For instance, how many total tracks can you have it on at the same time?

You can set marker points within a phrase, for quickly jumping around. Or you can fire up as many instances of Rephrase as you need.

BitFlipper wrote:

3) Would you be able to create harmonies by duplicating the pitch trace to say, below and above the current one? I guess one can have multiple tracks with a different pitch if this was not possible in one instance.

Yes, you can send midi to Rephrase on all 16 midi channels, and the note pitch/volume timing etc can be different on each channel - great for harmonies.

BitFlipper wrote:

4) Do you have a demo available? When? Edit: Ah, it says early November. Is this still the expected ship time?

The demo and purchase will be available at the same time. We're currently on schedule, so fingers crossed it'll be out early November

Damn, Justin

This Rephrase screen-grab looks so honestly cool...

So simple, so objective, even with a cool choice of colors...


November suddenly seems a little further, so could you upload more audio examples?

Violins and Guitar riffs?


Thanx in advance

Justin,

All I can say to your responses above is...




BitFlipper

pgcarea51 wrote:

Damn, Justin This Rephrase screen-grab looks so honestly cool... So simple, so objective, even with a cool choice of colors...

Glad you like the design

pgcarea51 wrote:

November suddenly seems a little further, so could you upload more audio examples?

November is a day closer than it was yesterday!

BitFlipper wrote:

Justin
Leapfrog Audio
www.leapfrogaudio.com

@justin_leapfrog

hehe, may I ask for a free copy for bringing up rephrase?

May you please describe, how the midi data is used to control the phrase? How is the phrase been "loaded" into rephrase? May it be "recorded" within an insert path of a track? You separate each piece of phrase which then gets assigned a midi note? What, if you separate a piece further, after MIDI has been dragged to the host? How do you control vibrato, formants etc... The Idea with MIDI is cool, I somehow like the concept of dragging the phrase pieces itself around in time and pitch more, as melodyne offers...

Looks interesting and sounds very promising though!

TabSel wrote:

hehe, may I ask for a free copy for bringing up rephrase?

you may ask!

TabSel wrote:

May you please describe, how the midi data is used to control the phrase?

Notes are played in-order, so each midi note moves you 1 note further through the phrase. You can specify a reset time, for the position to move back to the start of the phrase after say 1 second, also you can assign markers to midi keys, to jump around the phrase.

TabSel wrote:

How is the phrase been "loaded" into rephrase? May it be "recorded" within an insert path of a track?

If you load a wave file, then the first time it will be imported. A 'rephrase' file will will be saved in the same folder, so subsequent loads happen near-instantly. (there's also a dropdown fileselector, for quick access to rephrase files in the current folder) We will look into recording directly, in a future update.

TabSel wrote:

You separate each piece of phrase which then gets assigned a midi note? What, if you separate a piece further, after MIDI has been dragged to the host?

Note-splitting is automatic - but you can use the note sensitivity slider, or make manual edits. If you add/remove a note, then you can either re-export, or change the midi in your host. (perhaps best is to check the phrase is split as you want, before you start using it)

TabSel wrote:

How do you control vibrato, formants etc...

Formants are preserved by default, so there's no fiddling needed to keep things sounded natural. To change vibrato/formants you can use mod wheel/pitchbend/midi learn or automate any control. (or edit the pitch envelope in Rephrase)

Hope I've been of some help! I think using midi to control audio this way works real well, since there's no separate apps to load, and you can do all your editing in one place.

What'd be really cool would be if I could drag audio clip directly from my host into rephrase. I don't know if it'd be possible, but that'd make working with it so fast it'd be ridiculous!

Anyway, that's my main concern.

Oh, and I don't like the squigly cyan lines in the GUI. They look kinda rough. I know it doesn't represent the quality of the sound (which I'm sure rocks!), but if you could make those squigly line "sexier", then I think that'd make your product look a lot more "professional".

Consider:
Make the lines antialiased (no jaggies)
Make the dots (nodes on the line) circles instead of squares.
Shade the grid background in two different colours/shades, to represent the black and white keys.
Shade the keys on the keyboard so they look more "3d"
Make the scroll bars match the visual style of the grid.
Shade the waveform display (at the top of the UI) so it looks "3d".

Cosmetics make a big impact.

Forever,




Kim.

@justin_leapfrog

>>Notes are played in-order, so each midi note moves
>>you 1 note further through the phrase. You can
>>specify a reset time, for the position to move
>>back to the start of the phrase after say 1
>>second, also you can assign markers to midi keys,
>>to jump around the phrase.

That means, a "note on" event will start playback of the next segment of the phrase, whereas the note number will be used for the pitch of this segment? If yes, how is "unprocessed playback" of a segment achieved? Did I understand it right, that by assignig a key to a maker (segment?) into the prase and pressing that key will reset the playback pointer for "note on"-events to that segment?

>>If you load a wave file, then the first time it
>>will be imported. A 'rephrase' file will will be
>>saved in the same folder, so subsequent loads
>>happen near-instantly. (there's also a dropdown
>>fileselector, for quick access to rephrase files
>>in the current folder) We will look into recording
>>directly, in a future update.

or as jeez said, drag and drop would be good, too

>>Note-splitting is automatic - but you can use the
>>note sensitivity slider, or make manual edits.

Thats good to know... never rely on an automatic segment detection *g*

>>If you add/remove a note, then you can either re-
>>export, or change the midi in your host. (perhaps
>>best is to check the phrase is split as you want,
>>before you start using it)

Hmmm... Using Phatmatic Pro a lot, I know that using a "phrase" is a never ending process for me and I know that it is impossible to tweak a phrase and fix it and then work in the host... I tweak phrases all the time again and again and always my MIDI data, which gets tweaked as well will be "corrupted" when altering the phrase... hmmm... can you give an example of how to alter MIDI after inserting a new segment?

>>Hope I've been of some help! I think using midi to
>>control audio this way works real well, since
>>there's no separate apps to load, and you can do
>>all your editing in one place.

good point! a big draw back of melodyne which then has the advantage of visually redraw the audio... can't have everything it seems

Jeez wrote:

What'd be really cool would be if I could drag audio clip directly from my host into rephrase.

This is already on my todo list, and will be done before release.

Actually the lines are already anti-aliased.. I may well implement some of your suggestions, thanks!

TabSel wrote:

That means, a "note on" event will start playback of the next segment of the phrase, whereas the note number will be used for the pitch of this segment? If yes, how is "unprocessed playback" of a segment achieved? Did I understand it right, that by assignig a key to a maker (segment?) into the prase and pressing that key will reset the playback pointer for "note on"-events to that segment?

Yes each new note on, triggers the next slice, and the note pitch changes the note pitch, whilst pitch changes relative to the note pitch are still kept, so on pressing play it will sound like the original. You are right in your understanding of markers too.

TabSel wrote:

can you give an example of how to alter MIDI after inserting a new segment?

eg, if you add a segment you can either, re-drag drop, or insert a new note in your midi, at the right position.

justin_leapfrog wrote:

Actually the lines are already anti-aliased..

Maybe it's those square nodes that were fooling me! Anyway, I hope you make it prettier - something like this really deserves to be beautiful! At the moment it looks more like a scientist's tool than a musical instrument.

Forever,




Kim.

Uh oh, I just noticed the "correct" "odd/even" and "polyphony" knobs... This is going to be a Swiss Army Knife for monophonic audio isn't it?

My credit card quivers in fear...

Forever,




Kim.

Yamaha PitchFix

http://www.yamahasynth.com/download/pitchfix.html

very good

BitFlipper wrote:

Wow - the irony of that screengrab seems to have passed everyone by. I thought it was a mock up ..... ie - the damn thing crashed due to the vocalist singing IN tune

Manc Chris wrote:

Wow - the irony of that screengrab seems to have passed everyone by. I thought it was a mock up ..... ie - the damn thing crashed due to the vocalist singing IN tune

Yes, that's a real screenshot. Reminds me of one of those websites where they show screenshots of the dumbest, ironic or funny error messages.

To me the whole Auto-Tune experience left me with a sense of instability, incomplete, and not very user friendly. Don't let the pretty screenshots fool you. I did not even mention the screen redraw bugs. Sometimes it would leave behind parts of the running cursor, or the cursor would keep on running even after I stop Sonar. I tested Melodyne just before that and it felt solid, easy to use, and way more powerful than Auto-Tune. And then there's the PACE crap...

BitFlipper

Justin,

I put in a good word for Rephrase over on the Sonar forum. People were asking about alternatives to Auto-Tune 4 so I thought it would be good to make people aware of it's upcoming release. I'm sure your site will see some hits from that...

PS: Of course I have not tested Rephrase myself, so I'm just going with what I've seen on your site and the demos, but I'm sure it will be good.

BitFlipper

Great thread! My TC-Helicon VoiceWorks is the last hardware effect I have plumbed into my PC - primarily for pitch correction. It would be great if I could cut it loose...

Like many others on this board, I am avoiding Pace plugs. I will definitely wait for RePhrase to be released to see how it stacks up against Melodyne, Yamaha'a offering, etc.

Hey Justin,

While there are some interesting suggestions as how to change the look of RePhrase, please please don't delay it's release just to make a few cosmetic changes. That's what patches are for. I mean, this is version 1.0, and like any new software, some users will run into some unexpected bugs and you will probably (like most other companies) have to release a patch anyway.

I must admit the Melodyne UI is pretty slick, with the shaded waveforms etc, but that is only secondary over the cool functionality that RePhrase will provide. You can focus on that AFTER we get our hands on a copy of RePhrase 1.0.

BitFlipper

Jeez wrote:

Uh oh, I just noticed the "correct" "odd/even" and "polyphony" knobs... This is going to be a Swiss Army Knife for monophonic audio isn't it?

Yeah, by using resynthesis it opens up a number of features that wouldnt be so easy otherwise

BitFlipper wrote:

I put in a good word for Rephrase over on the Sonar forum.

Thanks - very kind!

BitFlipper wrote:

I must admit the Melodyne UI is pretty slick, with the shaded waveforms etc, but that is only secondary over the cool functionality that RePhrase will provide. You can focus on that AFTER we get our hands on a copy of RePhrase 1.0.

Thats the plan, besides gui changes can be endless, since everyone has a different view on what looks nice.

Got Melodyne Studio 2.5 a couple of months ago. Finally got it working today, just for simple transposition of vocals. Sound killer. No Satan/Chipmunk effect. Really clean.

I'm using it to set up vocal arrangements with Alto and Soprano Harmonies so that I can determine if the arrangements work before I hire Backup Singers. I think the results are good enough to use in the finished product, but real untransposed female voices would sound better.

As far as the old to pitch correct or not to pitch correct argument goes, my humble opinion is thus:

Best: Great Singer/Great Song/Unlimited Studio Time
The reason: a great singer sings out of tune virtually all the time. This is how he or she expresses emotion. A talented producer may be able to tweak details in a vocal performance using software, but the producer cannot create a vocal performance using that software or the producer would then be the singer. And, if the producer or the singer can hear flaws in the performance, the best thing to do is go back and sing the part again until it's right. You don't need to take my word for it, just examine the classic vocal performances in recording history: no pitch correction.

Second Best: Singer/Great Song/Limited Studio Time/Pitch Correction

Second Worst: Bimbo (Male or Female)/Great Song/Limited Studio Time/Pitch Correction

Worst: Bimbo (Male or Female)/Shit/Limited Studio Time/Pitch Correction

I don't think it gets worse than that, but then again tomorrow's another day.


I

IGWright wrote:

Worst: Bimbo (Male or Female)/Shit/Limited Studio Time/Pitch Correction I don't think it gets worse than that, but then again tomorrow's another day.

Forever,




Kim.

HI

Possible HICK-UP situation; Great singer, Bimbo producer .

Flipper.

IGWright wrote:

Worst: Bimbo (Male or Female)/Shit/Limited Studio Time/Pitch Correction

How about

Bimbo/Shit/Unlimited studio time (because you've agreed on a whole project deal with no time mentioned)

Happened to me once. Lesson learned.

K