Are there any other impulse Response reverbs, for pc that is free ? or do you know if that A no latency version of SIR is anyway near soon to be released, it feels like ages since it was announced, that Knufinke was working on one.

reVOLVerb is free, but it's hard logging onto the comapny's website. I think it's a bandwidth issue, so you may be able to log on now & grab it.

Doesn't have alot of features, but also doesn't have SIR's latency issues either, so..

And if you're looking for more IR's you can grab free ones from noisevault.com

If you want to try some really cool ones, try the Specktral Relativity IR's from Spirit Canyon Audio. Great value for money & some really far out stuff. Spirit Canyon also has more conventional IR's in the new kaleidoskopy IR collection as well.

Later,

Revolverb !!! that sounds interesting, and no latency that sounds marvelous thanks !!!

But is it not a Vst Plugin ? I can`t find it under effects on this site.

http://revolverb.hostrocket.com/

hurry up & get it right now, before everyone eats up the bandwidth

No luck I am afraid, I get A "no permission" message, so there must still be bandwidth problems. It also don`t support 384 Sample latencies, that is what I have on my soundcard, and I can`t go under that.

What is wrong with SIR? I think it works pretty good.
It is stable, it works.

Sorry then!

drinelli wrote:

But is it not a Vst Plugin ? I can`t find it under effects on this site.

It says 'VST' at the top of the page, right after 'Red State Sound RevolVerb Lite'

it also doesn't support AMD processors

didn't the latency on SiR come down recently in an update?

Why the pressing need for no latency?

AFAIK, there will still be latency associated with this kind of plug-in, as it performs some pretty complex maths; however, obviously you can get a lower latency than SIR currently has, or he wouldn't be working on it!

I realize that there CAN be some pretty spiffy realtime uses for SIR or similar plugs, but way more often than not, I'm using it for the mixing phase, which means that latency is a non-issue.

I guess if your host doesn't have PDC, that could suck.

Greg

Lunch Money wrote:

Why the pressing need for no latency? I realize that there CAN be some pretty spiffy realtime uses for SIR or similar plugs, but way more often than not, I'm using it for the mixing phase, which means that latency is a non-issue. I guess if your host doesn't have PDC, that could suck. Greg

Zero Latency is really handy when you are using speaker cabinet impulses or Eq/Tube Pre impulses. If SIR can be run at zero or near zero latency it will be quite an enhancement to its usability.

Logic PC has no PDC so using SIR involves workarounds - eg route everything through a bus with an equal sample delay on it (another SIR instance with no impulse loaded will do this by the way).

Regards,
Eg

Over 8000 samples latency is a lot of latency, think if your soundcard had that kind of latency, it would be a serious problem. I want to be able to monitor my vst Instruments while recording the midi, and inspite of the pdc it seems as if recorded vst tracks with SIR in the effect chain, still are being delayed, that is why I need the no latency version.

With PDC, there shouldn't be any delay unless it's on the track being recorded (in which case, it's impossible for PDC to do anything at all). If it's for live tracking, you probably don't 'need' the hear the reverb on the track anyhow-- alternatives are to either disable it entirely, or to temporarily replace with a bread'n'butter non-convolution reverb while live tracking.

Greg

Lunch money wrote :

Quote:

With PDC, there shouldn't be any delay unless it's on the track being recorded (in which case, it's impossible for PDC to do anything at all).

Please elaborate.

Only just d/loaded sir... after playing around with Waves IR1 the other day at my mates (which used half the cpu on a 2100xp at low latency.. even more for some of the big impulses) I've decided that Sir is as good if not better.

The only reason for wanting 0 latency would be to use preamp impulses? For reverbs and all that run sir in a send slot.. aint nothing wrong with a bit of predelay.

I still don't think it's that important, as someone already mentioned use a standard vst verb for tracking and change things over later.

hey sickle, I heard you praise Canyon IRs before and I'm at the website looking at it (been this way for the past week). The only thing holding me back is what exactly to use with them. SIR does have latency issues and I'm not willing to bust my wallet. What exactly do you use? and how?

I use Sir & reVOLVerb, but reVOLVerb doesn't run all of them very well, TBH. The Spektral Relativity IR's aren't traditional spaces by any means, so when I'm using em, I'm not really noticing the latency as the track most likely isn't 'structered' to begin with.

I tried the Pristine Space demo, & that would probably be my first choice among the IR readers, but theer's also Delay Dots to consider, & they partner with DBurgan, so maybe you wanna check that out as well.

As far as zero latency, I've pretty much incorporated the latency into the composition as that's probably easier than sitting around waiting for a zero-latency IR reader to get developed

One other thing you can do with it is load it into an audio editor like Audition, I'd imagine, where you can like has been mentioned before, apply garden variety verb to your track & replace it offline with SIR later..

Hope that helps,

...FreeVerbtoo, Miasma, OldSkoolVerb, DX Reverb Lite, Kjaerhus Classic Reverb, ReverbAssistant, Ambience VST, PlanacarWare Empire, PSP PianoVerb...

drinelli wrote:

Are there any other impulse Response reverbs, for pc that is free ? or do you know if that A no latency version of SIR is anyway near soon to be released, it feels like ages since it was announced, that Knufinke was working on one.

...

i was looking at FREE not impulse.

Here's a list of all the convolvers I know of:

http://www.spiritcanyonaudio.com/convolvers.php

Of these, the only one that I know for certain has true zero latency is Pristine Space. I use it all the time, and it is indeed realtime, although it has a few notable constraints it puts on you. So, if you need realtime convolution, that's the one to go for.

There are others that offer very low latency, however. Waves IR-1 has a latency just a few milliseconds long, from what I understand. There may be others that are similarly free of latency.

Finally, TL Space from Trillium Lane Labs has zero or near-zero latency, when it's running on Pro Tools HD Accel. But that only helps you if you're a Digidesign shop.

Hope this helps ... !

anybody can download RevolVerb Lite Beta from the site ?

the link doesn't works for me.

if someone that has the file could send me the zip ? would be very appreciated thanks.

drinelli wrote:

Lunch money wrote : Quote: With PDC, there shouldn't be any delay unless it's on the track being recorded (in which case, it's impossible for PDC to do anything at all). Please elaborate.

OK, premise 1: you are using a host that supports Plug-in Delay Compensation (PDC)

premise 2: SIR is NOT on a track that is being recorded in realtime.

Result:

Even before you press "record", your host is given information from the various plugins about how long their latency is. Let's say it is told that latency will be 8000 samples. When you press 'record', your host starts processing the audio, but doesn't actually spit anything out to your audio outputs until those 8000 samples have expired; ie. the calculations have been performed, and once you start hearing audio, you're hearing it as you will when the track is rendered.

Hence, latency is a non-issue. You can play realtime on another track, and only THAT track's latency will be an issue.

To the second point, about how zero latency realtime recording is impossible, regardless of PDC--

Premise 1: convolution is a mathematical process, and therefore your CPU has to calculate those maths.

Premise 2: it takes time, no matter how insiginificant, for a processor to calculate the maths.


So, when an impulse reverb is said to have "zero latency", in fact it's just really f---ing quick with the maths, using efficient algorithms and streaming the calculated data A.S.A.P.. So, 'zero latency' still depends on the processing power of your computer. I have no doubt that it can be done so that it's humanly impossible to tell that there is any latency, but zero isn't entirely accurate.

Now, just to be thorough, let me quickly explain how PDC doesn't help in real-time on the track you're recording: your computer is unable to predict the future. Therefore, it can't buffer 8000 samples... it can only start working on the signal when it is received. In non-realtime tracks, the plug-in is actually receiving the signal before you hear the audio (see explanation of PDC above). But in a realtime track, it can't receive the signal until you play it. Therefore, you play a note, and 8000 samples later, you will hear the results calculated through SIR. That's the only way it's possible.

Don't get me wrong-- I'm looking forward to the 'zero latency' version of SIR, and I DO acknowledge that when they say 'zero latency', for all intents and purposes, it IS. I'm just saying that in the meantime, I can't think of very many applications where it would be absolutely critical for me to even USE a zero-latency convolution. No doubt, CPU usage will go up in zero-latency versions, though I suspect that part of the reason for the long delay is that the programmer is streamlining ALL code in order to avoid a drastic CPU jump.

Greg

maxlef wrote:

anybody can download RevolVerb Lite Beta from the site ? the link doesn't works for me. if someone that has the file could send me the zip ? would be very appreciated thanks.

you can get it at the noisevault forum do a search if you have any amp cabs think about impulseing them 1n some position like on axis,off axis,edge,and,far and posting them there

wsaidah wrote:

maxlef wrote: anybody can download RevolVerb Lite Beta from the site ? the link doesn't works for me. if someone that has the file could send me the zip ? would be very appreciated thanks. you can get it at the noisevault forum do a search if you have any amp cabs think about impulseing them 1n some position like on axis,off axis,edge,and,far and posting them there

didn't found it, but anyway, seems like "normal" that the file isn't on download anymore :

Quote:

In a case of RevolVerb, the picture is different. If we normalise it's Delta file, we will hear strange boom-like sound on the left channel(I think this is a bug) and effect close to PS/SIR on the rignt one. Actually, to hear it you can open any IR in RevolVerb and process 2sec blank/empty audio file, then normalize your result.

(from noisevault forums)

maxlef wrote:

wsaidah wrote: maxlef wrote: anybody can download RevolVerb Lite Beta from the site ? the link doesn't works for me. if someone that has the file could send me the zip ? would be very appreciated thanks. you can get it at the noisevault forum do a search if you have any amp cabs think about impulseing them 1n some position like on axis,off axis,edge,and,far and posting them there didn't found it, but anyway, seems like "normal" that the file isn't on download anymore : Quote: In a case of RevolVerb, the picture is different. If we normalise it's Delta file, we will hear strange boom-like sound on the left channel(I think this is a bug) and effect close to PS/SIR on the rignt one. Actually, to hear it you can open any IR in RevolVerb and process 2sec blank/empty audio file, then normalize your result. (from noisevault forums)

it is there do a search with this Channel Emulator Series look for this topic (Any feedback on the The Channel Emulator Series) scroll down about 8 post you cant miss it i just checked an it works

This really did turn in to a great dicussion I just want to point out that I as I believe most people on this forum would agree upon, that true zero latency is a thing of the future. Did I hear a big "what", I will explain : some one said you can not look into the future, well but you can, if you got enough ram and processing power, and you have lets say a 100 keys on the keyboard, you can just calculate the whole lot of them in advance, or when Quantum Computers become the order of the day, they will calculate all posibillities at once, simple (not really) as that. But back to the subject, my problem with over 8000 samples latency may be an aesthetic problem, but to me it is very noticeable, and creativity is all about aesthetic in some way or another.

It's definitely noticeable in realtime use. No argument there.

Interesting point about calculating all possible outcomes.

Greg

Quote:

Interesting point about calculating all possible outcomes. Wink Greg

Thanks Greg, this also leads me to talk about, : why have no one ( to my knowledge ) made a sequenser, that pre calculate the vst plugins except for the record enabled ones. I don`t mean freeze, I mean something like a dynamic background task, that sees to that only needed plugins are realtime calculated, the rest is rendered to wave files, and when changes are made, just the nessecary parts is rerendered while you do other things. Also in away so that the resulting wave files, and their midi counterpart, can be edited in an linked and at the same time separate way, applying effects on the wave files, with the possibility of changing the midi data still remaining, "advanced offline history" if you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean, and I think it's brilliant! Sure, if you cut and paste or otherwise move any clips, the 'background' .wav file would be useless and therefore deleted; however, since you're likely only working on one track at a time, the others would still be saving your CPU.

Great idea-- like auto-freeze but transparently so.

Greg

Man, Kvr site is slow today, either that or my maschine need defraggin.

Quote:

if you cut and paste or otherwise move any clips, the 'background' .wav file would be useless and therefore deleted; however, since you're likely only working on one track at a time, the others would still be saving your CPU. Very Happy

Well that depends, if the chosen track was made of both a one whole audio track ( wavefile ) and wave files for each note, only the changed note requires a new wave file, the old section where the previous wave file was a part of the whole track file, just have to be deleted, and the overlapping notes recalculated, both where it was removed and where it would be placed anew. Can you follow me ? If effects was layered on top of the audio, they would just have to be recalculated to, for one 1 bar note that means max. 2 bars had to be changed. I know this would be difficult to program but not impossible though. It also would require some serious multitasking, but that is what vst is all about in the first place.


sorry about my late reply

Yes, I understand-- that's an interesting idea, and different than what I first visualized. Could be workable!

Greg

If just Steinberg would take up my idea to use as an alternative workmode in cubase, so that any project could be switched to work in this mode when the cpu got to much to do, or from scratch, I think it might be the best way for finalizing a project, so that you can use an endless amount of plugins, it should be enough to just save the track wavefile for each track not the ones for each note, harddisks are not endless, I mean they could be processed when needed. Thanks for your time javascript:emoticon('')
Wink

RedStateSound RevolVerb FREE



http://revolverb.hostrocket.com

http://noisevault.com/plugs/RevolVerb_L.zip

Iv been wanting try Revolverb for ages, thank you.

Has anybody mentioned the standalone one HOGG,
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~bcassidy/hog/

There is Convo Boy from Elevayta, which is free unless you want to save the presets, I think?????







.....................in the hay with Mary

I'm reading about that HOG, interesting, must give it a try.

Any audio example of it online?

'Convo Boy' is FREE and costs if you want more features.

Checkout the comparison here.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74797

Note 1: Even the FREE version of 'Convo Boy' has half the latency of SIR.

Note 2: The commercial version has a number of extra features including the UNIQUE possibility to save your own 'mangled' or modified Impulse responses as .wav files (according to an earlier post, it seems that not many are aware of this feature).

Presets can be saved in both versions.

P.S. The FREE version doesn't show in Adobe Audition. The commercial version does.

P.P.S. If you are interested in 'hog' then you should take a look at 'Clone Boy' and 'FreEq Boy'

Here's a list of every convolution engine I'm aware of:

http://www.spiritcanyonaudio.com/convolvers.php

Hope this helps!

as part of the math previously mentioned, at the very minimum, for a real-time convolution based impulse response verb you will have to 'wait' the length of the IR. so 512 samples at 44.1kz = 11.6 ms, double the length, double the time. again this is bare minimum. if someone knows a faster way to apply the entire IR I'd love to hear it (besides time-traveling)

Doesn't Pristine Space go lower than 11ms for latency?

birrbits wrote:

if someone knows a faster way to apply the entire IR I'd love to hear it (besides time-traveling)

http://gauss.ffii.org/PatentView/EP1072089

You could adjust all your other tracks start points (IE: select all parts and move them forward) by whatever 8000ms converts to in beats for the tempo you're using.

This might sound pointless, but it's an option that's there.

Now HOG is something I haven't seen in ages. Used to play with it on my old, old machine with a 110MHz processor. Got some fun sounds out of it though. The frequency extraction and EQ matching functions do some very odd spatial tricks if you process a sound against itself.

i don't have as much of a problem with SIR's latency as i do with its cpu load.

I think I have found my Convolution verb, It costs money, so I have to find some cash, Wizoo verb W2. By the way I have heard of some trees, they call them Money trees you do not happen to have seen som around have you....

You only leaved a few notes for me, , Okay do you have a roadmap of its position

dburgan wrote:

birrbits wrote: if someone knows a faster way to apply the entire IR I'd love to hear it (besides time-traveling) http://gauss.ffii.org/PatentView/EP1072089

Sorry I should have been more clear, I was only refering to normal convolution (not fft based).
Splitting it up and taking the tails is cool though, nice link thanks.