****My prediction**** now is that Jo will take Muzys to a new level in both marketing and distribution once the OSX hurdle is crossed. We may have to be even more patient for audio streaming. Muzys has a uniquely independent interface, and is a stable multiplatform tool. Getting this code to play with OSX is no picnic, and would (in the real business world) normally take a full staff of software engineers to accomplish. I mean let's face it, Emagic and Steinberg have some of the greatest minds working for them and they are only just recently pioneering OSX.

Lets just pretend that Jo is taking his hiatus in the monastery, because he is truly deserving of Sainthood.

~Mark

Mon·as·ter·y A community of persons, especially monks, bound by vows to a religious life and often living in partial or complete seclusion. The dwelling place of such a community.

Mac OS 10 first came out as beta like 5 years ago
everything Should have been ported at least over one year ago (when most abandoned classic)
if not then i see no excuses for the not having done so already

By one person? Cmon.

Engineering audio programs is seriously complicated stuff and it normally takes a staff of really bright minds to design a functional and stable product. Porting code to another operating system (especially Apple's particular 'flavor' of Unix, namely OSX) ain't no walk in the park. Believe me, it's a very good excuse.

If you're gonna talk 'no excuses' then let's talk about the Muzys shop.

~M<

- os X is only usefull for music from 10.2 on, because it didn't supported midi and had no asio support or anything before that. that's 2 years at most.
- How long didn't it take for other companies to port to mac os x who didn't had the concern about exernal devices etc. Companies who have dozens of programmers and dedicated mac specialists.
Logic was one of the first but had first hand information and are not alone to do it.
How long is cubase sx alive, a little over one year?


I think you think a bit to simplistic about it. Muzys is a one man show. And he (Jo) has to learn a complete new operating os. Then there was a long time doubt about doing a carbon or a native port. because carbon would be double work at the end I think he waited to do a native port.

I think it's a whole study for a 'pc' programmer to do a port to a system which is/was unknown and new itself.

And by the way it's not an obligation to do a os x port.

Kage

I think just under a year ago we were beta-ing Muzys 3.0... Hands up who'd rather still be using 2.44 but with OSX 10.2.x support (but not 10.3.x)?

sboaz wrote:

Mac OS 10 first came out as beta like 5 years ago everything Should have been ported at least over one year ago (when most abandoned classic) if not then i see no excuses for the not having done so already

At the risk of sounding overly defensive, I'm sure the people on OSX would rather have a stable version than a shitty one which has a ton of issues. Even the big boys that have a ton of coders to turn out the product AQAP still deal with an immense amount of bugs (*cough*steiny*cough*).

Make music, stop complaining.

One person doing an OSX port is gonna take some time. One person doing an OSX port AND holding down a job AND having a life away from the computer is gonna take a LOT more time. Not doing an OSX port means giving up on Apple as a platform for Muzys. So being a Mac user, I am only too glad to wait. Having said that, I do understand the frustrations of Windows users. All I can say is on behalf of all Mac users, thanks for your patience.

Waiting, to me, is not really a problem because I know that what I am waiting for will be excellent. Muzys has always been a rock-solid piece of software and beta versions of major upgrades, in my experience, have been more about fine-tuning the interface than catching bugs due to sloppy coding. Since this is a port (i.e. no major interface changes) I am assuming that Jo is taking his time making sure the code is solid.

Jo has never released a beta that is marginally functional. Indeed, I'm so confident in the quality of his work that I have even used beta versions in live performance! In other words, rather than rush software to market he (btw, does anyone know for a fact that Jo is a He and not a She?) takes his time so that it is 99% functional at the time of beta release. Kudos to someone who puts quality above speed to market. I am sick of dealing with crash-prone crap that is released prematurely because the programmer/company feared loss of market share. Screw that. That is the logic of commercial software. Muzys has always felt more like Community software.

Also, I wonder if doing an OSX port lays the foundation for a Linux version?

Cheers, Lewis

Right on, Lewis.

Hey, if you have time I'd be very grateful if you could expand on your live performance workflow with Muzys. I started a thread about that not too long ago. (If you dont mind, add it to that thread - "Muzys on stage - how do YOU use it?")

Thanks, ~Mark

Hey Mark,

I did, in fact, post a note in that thread! If you have any more questions, just ask...

Cheers, Lewis

btw, Adam_V's line "Make music, stop complaining" is about the best piece of philosophical advice I've heard in a long time! Words to live by, if I've ever heard any.

lk

lepwisk wrote:

Hey Mark, I did, in fact, post a note in that thread! Cheers, Lewis

Doh! Tanks, mon!

Well... I appreciate the great one-man-only work to make Muzys as it is.
I know the problem of software porting and I understand perfectly that it's a time spending job.
I also appreciate the fact that some people are more interested in making a good product than making money selling more copies of it.

What I ask is simply this: don't you think that it would be a low cost operation (in time sense) to send (one or two times in a month) a news for all that peopole who has already bought the product or who would like to do it (ehm.. like me...) and need to 1) obtain answers to their questions 2) simply buy the product ?

If you go to the site, you find the 'Support' section but nobody answers if you write (I already did it more than one time). At least some updated news could give a we-are-still-alive touch...

Another question: if in these days I use the demo, which limits do I have? I want to buy the full version of course, but with Computer Muzys I have the 5-VST and no multichannel (Except DS-404) limits...

---*----
SunnyDay

I think that most of us (even the diehard optimists here) have a hard time understanding why Jo doesn't at least poke his head out of the laboratory every so often. Also, keeping the store closed this long, IMHO, is a questionable business practice (as I have reluctantly stated in previous posts.) And it is a shame that potential customers are being essentially "turned away."

When Emagic did their deal with Apple (one of the main reasons I turned to Muzys) do you think they did it for the music community at large or for the money? That's a 'no brainer', ain't it? Dare I say, Jo created Muzys because he has a passion for making a stable, functional and **unique** music software and wasn't happy with the current crop of bug-ridden, overly priced programs. Not to mention, he is a staunch supporter of the music community, especially the "newbies."

IMHO, with a product as killer as this, Jo could easily get some good legal representation and probably strike a deal to sell Muzys to a big software firm for the big bucks and royalties. Then, we could expect semi annual updates (now dictated by the "sales force" and not the engineers. In fact the sales people think up the new features now and inform the engineers how much time they have to implement it!) and a price tag of at least twice of what it is now. No thanks.

All we can do at this point is keep the faith. Jo has stated that he will return soon and so far he has not let us down on his word.

If you decide to not wait, it's perfectly understandable. But Jo will return, and those that have left to try other products will return to check out Muzys as soon as they hear that Jo is back.

~Mark

I will wait... I appreciate too much Muzys in terms of completeness, usability, and cost.

I don't want to compare it to other products here, but I have tried (and also bought! ) other ones and then returned to Muzys (or better.. to Computer Muzys for the moment...). I really find it the most simple and complete software to sequence music using VST (it's a personal but sincere opinion).

Jo... we all wait 4 U!!

SunnyDay wrote:

Another question: if in these days I use the demo, which limits do I have? I want to buy the full version of course, but with Computer Muzys I have the 5-VST and no multichannel (Except DS-404) limits...

You can't save your projects. Ack!

pljones wrote:

SunnyDay wrote: Another question: if in these days I use the demo, which limits do I have? I want to buy the full version of course, but with Computer Muzys I have the 5-VST and no multichannel (Except DS-404) limits... You can't save your projects. Ack!

Although you can export up to 10 seconds of audio at a time.

Edit: I'm a dunce.

Edit: Yes, a very big dunce.

I'm getting weaker
with all those FL Studio adverts around...


p.s.: hey guys, just kiddin'
anyway, I'm N-E-R-V-O-U-S!!!!

Wman

I've had Muzys 3 for a while now, from the days of a good support community upgrades etc. I recently bought Ableton Live 3 and FL Studio. Fl as a Slave to Live is a killer combination and I'm thinking ...what's the point of Muzys, especially since it seems to have come to a dead end as far as development goes. If someone could give me a reason for continuing with Muzys great, but comparing No show Joe to great support and communities for both Live and FL Studio along with constant development and upgrades (free with FL) it seems to me there is no competition. I'm open to persuasion but also considering selling my Muzys 3 with key (if this is possible). Any comments on the above would be welcome

Basically, it's already been said. If you look back at the last 25 posts you will see a lot of discussion about it. I'm still willing to wait. Muzys is still serving me very well. I could compose tracks for years with the way it is now. Im sorry, I know that doesn't help the others here who are anxiously wanting to purchase it. Jo will peek his head out soon, we can only hope.

At this point, I see no reason to discourage you from selling your prog and key to someone else. There's undoubtedly someone here who's been waiting for the 'shop' to open.

Anything to keep hope alive at this point, I say.

~Mark

I totally agree with you Mark.

For all of you that are itching to buy Muzys, I know it sucks waiting. I'm getting very impatient myself to get some updates about what's going on. But remember, Jo told us all this already.

He said he's going away to devote his time fully to the OSX port and to develop a few other goodies. If development of Muzys was finished, don't you think he would tell us?

Well, I believe it's very much alive and I think there are big things in its future. Although at it's current state it's lacking a few features that other programs have, it's miles ahead in the way that it's thought out.

Just as Mark said, have patience. Don't you know that good things come to those who wait?

Jimmy --

I'm right there with ya man. I think I've decided that some combination of Live-Muzys-FLS is best for me, but I can only really afford two of them (and I passed up a chance at Live 1.5 for $125).

I decided to wait on Muzys a bit more, mostly because I like it's stability and the fact that I just seem to work better with it. The more I get used to FLS, though, I may change my mind. I agree that Live is an excellent match for either Muzys or FLS, as it has exactly what they are lacking -- disk recording, real timestretching, and loop manipulation. I REALLY hope Jo adds those in the next release (I know disk recording is for sure, but we need a real automatic timestretch -- fit loop to tempo. If Making Waves can do it, I'm sure Muzys can!).

So I guess I'll wait a bit more. If it takes much longer you could have a bidding war for your Muzys 3.

In any event, Jo should at least drop us an email or two every month.

Mark

waiting, waiting, waiting.....

I know I've been one of the more vocal proponents of waiting for Jo, but I'll admit I'm starting to get edgy. I too wish Jo would drop us a status report once in a while. A little reassurance would go a LONG way.

Thankfully (!?!), I'm so busy with schoolwork I haven't had much time to play with M3, let alone worry about M4 or whatever I will use if the Muzys project fades into the ether. But I really am starting to wonder if this is the end of the line.

Please, Jo, just a note to tell us how things are coming. Pretty please?

Lewis

lepwisk wrote:

I too wish Jo would drop us a status report once in a while.

yeah...that would be great, if possible.

anyway, Muzys is (or will be) my host. I like the features, the modus operandi & stability...and with all the new features, the vst arsenal, perfect compatibility with Synthedit creations, EnergyXt & a rewired Reason2.5 it will be an earthquake.
I'll simply never stop the mess!

my only real complain is that I'm a plain lazy jackass
I should have taken Muzys3 while it was available.

Wman

when is it no longer "early 2004"?

(not a) scamartist wrote:

when is it no longer "early 2004"?

My thoughts exactly. I have to admit, my patience is wearing a tad thin. I really like working in muzys, but there are some issues that I would really like to see addressed (or at least be able to pass on my recommendations to Jo).

I'm going to be travelling in the next few months, and if there is no new version by the time I get back (May or so) I'm going to have to start shopping for a new host (which I'm really not keen on, honestly).

Here's to hoping, fellow Muzers. I guess only time will tell.

Ok, this is an improved version of what I believe our motto SHOULD BE :

"Make music, stop complaining, be patient, ask questions and keep muzying".

Regards.

I have to congratulate you guys on your patience. Theres no way in hell I could have been this patient with any sequencer. So Muzyz must be a great app. I cant believe the developer doesnt stop by and atleast give some kind of news. He cant be that busy porting to OSX, its impossible. Jorgen Aese is developing Energy XT like a mad man and he still finds time. Anyways good luck.

sorry to butt into a muzys thread, but ad80 did it first

I find it the most bizzare behaviour that the creator of Muzys shut down his webstore. I mean, what is he living off? Seriously, that kind of business move makes no sense at all.

I don't believe Jo makes his living from Muzys (somehow...). He makes Muzys because it's fun to do and rewarding in and of itself. Not because it turns a profit or meets some business plan.

Fortunately, Muzys doesn't rely on the provider's website being updated to continue doing everything it already did... for those who bought it before the shop closed, at least.

(It's Jo's choice -- new users are probably the biggest support headache and interruption to developing new features. Shutting the shop cuts off that drain on his time. So some people get p'ed off and won't buy Muzys ever. That's no problem for anyone, really, is it?)

My previous sequencer was Jazz++. I started using it just after the author open-sourced it, having given up on it as a commercial venture. I just hope -- should Jo even decide to stop -- that he does the same.

speaking of energyXT...
I've found it very very useful indeed in making up for Muzys' weaknesses jorgen aase (energyXT developer) said somewhere that the next major update will have direct disk streaming too

energyXT is cheap too! you can use it standalone, or as a VST instrument or effect. very useful indeed.. allows sending midi events to plugin effects inside energyXT, which Muzys can't currently do

http://www.xt-hq.com

(Edit) The latest version should be released very soon I think (says mid Feb on the site), but the Public Beta is fully functional

floyd wrote:

sorry to butt into a muzys thread, but ad80 did it first

Oh I didnt realize I was butting in. My bad . Like I sayd, Muzys must be great for people to be waiting this long with no info or updates. So more power to ya. Hope everything works out.

Oh and Energy XT IS awsome. You should check it out.

I'll let myself out.

hey AD80
When Jo the developer of Muzys was posting around here the support was equal to that of energyXT or tracktion - ie very very very good. This is what keeps us going, knowing that when he's back he'll be back in a big way

I own energyXT and tracktion and Muzys 3. I'll still always go back to Muzys for composing because it has awesome midi editing capabilities and other features I couldn't live without.. like the all powerful Muzynth!