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KVR Forum [Instruments] » Archive » Instruments » September 2001 Index | KVRFA1
AuthorTopic: KvR VSTi
Funkybot
Posted: 11th September 2001 01:24
I was just smoking a cigarette in bed looking through an issue of Future Music, and saw a small box featuring this site. Then I thought, wow this must have been great for site traffic. Then I thought about how the CM101 must've been great for magazine sales. Then I thought about all the developers on this board. If you're following my train of thought, which can be difficult, as well as annoying at times, you can probably guess where I'm going with this.

I haven't talked to Ben or anyone else affiliated with the site, but how about some of the good developers who frequent here, get together and make a KVR VSTi, to honor the site. Lets face it most of us frequent this site a few times a day, and post in these boards just as frequently, hell there's even a thread about how great this site is. So why not give back to KvR.

With the talent we have in this board I don't imagine creating a nice VSTi would be too difficult, I think the biggest hurdle would probably be agreeing on what kind of VSTi we'd like to make. I'm fuzzy on the details but I'd think it'd be an awesome thing to do for this site. So what do you guys say? I think we could work out the details of the VSTi on this thread, as well as get a couple developers to volunteer some time to work on this.

Logisticaly this could be a nightmare, with figuring out the type of VSTi, specs, as well as who's going to work on it (sadly, I have no programming experience at all). But again I think it'd be a great tribute to this site. I do think though, that this should be as democratic as possible. What I mean is that by general consensus, we should agree on the type and specs of the instrument. I don't know how possible this is, but I think it'd be a really cool thing to do. Anyway, what do you guys think? Can we do this, and who wants to be involved?
exponent
Posted: 11th September 2001 02:10
i commend you in acting upon your idea, and on your general forward-thinking approach. i'm all for it, let's see what kind of feedback this precipitates and then maybe we can say more about it. Brilliant idea, of use to all, imo.


Tell us what you want people!?!

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: exponent ]
tufif
Posted: 11th September 2001 02:20
I don't know anything about making vst's, but a kvr t-shirt would be cool
Raven
Posted: 11th September 2001 08:17
quote
Quote:
"I was just smoking a cigarette "

hmmm ! honest officer !

quote
Quote:
"I'm fuzzy on the details"


it's funny how they get the old brain cells firing


Funkybot ! I had a simular thought (and I don't smoke
any more) . I came close to posting it but talked myself
out of it.

Essentialy I think it could be a good idea if enough
people were intrested to make it work.
There must be a lot of code writers with different areas
of coding knowledge, if they could be brought together
here to pool their resorces who knows what may be possible ?

The idea I had was that members could post there ideas
on a kind of synth wish list, then with a process of
elimination , unpractical, unworkable , reinventing the
wheel ideas could be removed so that the cream is seperated
from the milk so to speak
from this a blueprint for a nice VSTi could evolve.
Then the programmers could divide it up into its component
parts and work on a component individually or in small
groups comunicating with each other via the web.
a consortium or co-operative project, if you like

I don't know what commercial developers would feel
about this , the good people at Muon etc, I think it
would be a conflict of intrests and I am sure
they would have code structurers that are there own
secrets and would like to keep it that way and so they
should.

What would be the legal aspects eg who would hold the
copyright on the finished synth ? would it be sharware
or freeware, it would be good if the contributers were
rewarded for there work but then involving money brings
in more issues

What about unscrupules persons infiltrating the project
and puting trojans or worms in ?

well thats my thoughts
Regards
Raven
Jambo
Posted: 11th September 2001 13:57
It should be something simple, yet unique, I bet between us we could spec a wicked instrument, then all we'd need to do is learn C++ and we'd be well away
Horse
Posted: 11th September 2001 14:15
How about the rex player Lotuz mentioned?

With filters.

H
Ben [KVR]
Posted: 11th September 2001 17:11
I love the idea


Once upon a time I had the stupid idea that I'd teach myself C++ and code one myself, hey I was young and foolish! I got hold of MS VC++ 6, downloaded the VST SDK and then shit myself.... damn it looks hard
Bear in mind that I don't have any experience at programming past 10 PRINT Hello, 20 GOTO 10, unless you count ASP, PHP and SQL, not exactly helpfull here, and that I have the attention span of a dead cat and you'll understand why I didn't get very far....

If any budding developers out there fancy doing this I'll set up a dedicated forum for you to whack out your ideas and develop this baby!

Regarding K-v-R T-Shirts, watch this space
Michael Kleps from reFX
Posted: 11th September 2001 17:21
Hi Ben,

when you can do PHP, you also can do C/C++. The syntax is quite similar. Just try to take a look at the VST-SDK and the supplied PDF again.
kevvvvv
Posted: 11th September 2001 17:22
A VSTi synth that let me play decent lead guitar would blow me away.

What would it need?

A small elec guitar sample preset, with filter, amp and synth controls bolted on.

I dream of this machine.
Funkybot
Posted: 11th September 2001 18:16
Ok everyone seems to think it's a good idea (whew, I was expecting to get flamed for that), so who here with programing experience is in? I don't think we need more than a few people working on it (maybe 3 or 4 but I have no idea how hard this would be). And I think we should have at least two people who've had experience programming a VSTi, who are using the same programming language, and they should make the instrument. Then we could hand off the unreleased version to a few people who are good at creating original synth patches, then take the best 25-50 of those original pathces and include it with instrument. That is of course if we want to build a synth, I'm a little sick of them personally, but as long as it's not a straight analogue synth and it's good I'd be happy. Hell even if it was analogue I'd be happy. Here's some suggestions for what we could do, these are only my oppinions on what I'd like to see, a wavetable syth, an analouge synth, it would have to be amazing or maybe not even a Realistic Concertmate MG-1 (a moog the company made for Radioshack) I think would be cool, or do something real, like Vibes, a Xylophone, Glockenspiel, an Ondes Martinot, Wurlitzer, something no ones done yet. So whatcha gus think, do we have programers willing to give up some time?
Illusionist
Posted: 11th September 2001 18:31
I think every new vst instrument is a good idea
and especially a KVR-Synth , but it's easy for me to say since I'm not a programmer. I like your idea's Funkybot. No more synths, but more original instruments. The thing I still hoping for is a realistic contrabass emulation, perhaps the Kontrabass Virtual Reality Instrument


Michiel
Raven
Posted: 11th September 2001 19:11
Xylophone, Glockenspiel, tuned percusion can be done
with soundfonts without the hasle of someone having
to write code to acheave the same result.

I think a wavetable or physical modeld something would be
nice
Regards
Raven
Horse
Posted: 11th September 2001 20:24
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Ben [KVR]
Posted: 11th September 2001 20:37
Have you been drinking Donkey ?
exponent
Posted: 12th September 2001 04:33
http://www.cafepress.com ben if you havent already looked into somewhere to make kvr branded merchandise from graphical logos.. you probobly already knew of that place but i figured i'd throw it out.. i tried to find some others this morning that i saw before, but i could only remember this one that sonic syndicate use.
They're all good ideas, in one way or another.. worst thing is for people to be afraid to speak out with whatever pops up in their mind.

I have some involved ideas to suggest for the kvr vsti(s)?, cant post it all right now, also i cant think too well due to the current tragedy in the usa, i think it has everyone pretty rattled here.. and i tend to ramble as it is.. everyone keep posting ideas, ill try to add some too before long.. there will be a kvr vsti that is cool and useful that will make this site grow as it's side effect. if it ends up being a programmable instrument i can say i volunteer to program patches.. i can program quality patches for any synth, but i tend towards certain types, whatever sounds i personally like i guess, but dosent everyone do this? anyhow i do have something to offer,so maybe some banks could be compiled from the patches of myself and a small group of others.. although i hate creating programs from cubase, whatever happened to the fxb/fxp bank librarian thread? *sigh* ok i'm rambling...

"We cannot take life, nor freedom, for granted"
Uncle E
Posted: 12th September 2001 05:30
I'm not in the mood to post, either, but I wanted to let Kevvvvvv know about the Yamaha Motif, it's Texas guitar patch is as good as it gets (better than many or most real guitarists). Figure out how they did it & start your idea from there or just send me the song & I'll record the parts for you.
kevvvvv
Posted: 12th September 2001 07:32
Uncle E,

Yamaha Motif .... Texas Guitar Patch ... what this?

Where can I hear or find out more?

tx = kevvvvv
tobybear
Posted: 12th September 2001 07:37
Hi everyone! Finally a plugin developer in this thread Wink))

A K-V-R VSTi? Sounds absolutely great to me!

I would be very much interested in co-programming such a thing (especially since I LOVE this site!), but unfortunately my time is rather limited with my own projects right now. I have a heap of work to do, but actually I am already creating a "collaberated" VST plugin (still top secret) with blue from the Bluelife Audiozone (www.bluelifeaudio.com) which will be exclusively for members of his mailing list or so. So you see, other people had the same idea :-)

But: I could be a good source for programming hints and implementation ideas, so even if I might not participate in the coding directly, I would be happy to give programming advices and ideas to everyone interested. We just need something simple, yet effective, right?

I'm sure many people out there like the idea of a K-V-R VSTi, let's see how this evolves!

Have a nice day!
(and my condolence to all US citizens for the terrible events that took place yesterday)

Toby (tobybear@web.de)
Plugin homepage: www.tobybear.de
shortyedwards
Posted: 12th September 2001 12:17
G.,
That was you on the Karplus Guitar ensemble?!! It is indeed a beautiful, fantastic piece of work. I really am startled by how good it sounds! I haven't used it on a tune yet but, have one in mind, if I can just get the time.


Kevvvv, if you don't have SynC Mod yet, and you really want the guitar sound you describe, download the demo and grab G's ensemble and i think you'll be suitably impressed.

Doug
saulc
Posted: 12th September 2001 13:03
How about doing an acoustic modelling sampler like the guitar and sax offerings that Dash Synthesis have to offer. Maybe even a sampler that lets you import sampls and then apply the kind of shaping that those acoustic modelling samplers offer?

That would be cool.
G.
Posted: 12th September 2001 13:17
quote:
Originally posted by Doug:
G.,
That was you on the Karplus Guitar ensemble?!! It is indeed a beautiful, fantastic piece of work. I really am startled by how good it sounds! I haven't used it on a tune yet but, have one in mind, if I can just get the time.



Thanks, yes it sounds quite convincing. It was a collaborative ensemble by several people in the SynC community, the most critical part was to make it tune properly... which it does now

Let us know if you use it in your song!
Enjoy
G.
lyly007
Posted: 12th September 2001 13:20
Hey, you know what? I had a dream!
- A dream?
Yes, it was call Kvr-PercutaPhonic Vsti
- What is it?
A tuned percussion that can simulate xylophon, timpani, tubular bell, vibraphone, metalophone, glass organ, gamelan and many others unknow instruments.
- But how does it works?
Like a game. You choose with what you hit (stick, hammer, brush, hand,...) and on what you hit (metal, skin, wood, mineral, glass, water...). So you can simulate tuned percussion and also create unexisting instrument.
- Does it use samples?
No, it use wavetable or something like that
- But, what is it for?
It's for fun and maybe making some music.
- Great and how do you make that?
I don't know, it was a dream.
tufif
Posted: 12th September 2001 14:43
Tassman can do this, so if someone knows how to make a phisical modelling synth like the Sonic Syndicate Plucked String then it could work, and also have a simple user interface.
mooseman
Posted: 12th September 2001 17:37
PM is definately the way to go.

How about a simple (non-modular) PM synth? eg:

- choose your generator (mallet, plectrum etc.)

- then choose your resonator (plate, tube, string etc).

then you could have filters and assignable lfo's.
Raven
Posted: 12th September 2001 17:57
Simple !

quote
Quote:
- choose your generator (mallet, plectrum etc.)

Bow !

quote
Quote:
- then choose your resonator (plate, tube, string etc).
String !
G.
Posted: 12th September 2001 21:21
quote:
Originally posted by kevvvvv:
A VSTi synth that let me play decent lead guitar would blow me away.
I dream of this machine.


Dream no more
I am not sure whether this would help you but you can try the SynC Modular patch, KS-Metal, from my site:
http://web.bham.ac.uk/G.Landini/music.htm

It is based on the Karplus-Strong algorithm and it was a collabortative job between a few members of the SynC list.
(with both true and simulated feedback)

Cheers,
G.
Pepe
Posted: 12th September 2001 21:32
A KvR VSTi? We still have an extremely virtual one: The Virtual Kazoo... Nah, just kidding
!

I also like the idea of a Lead Guitar VSTi. Anyway, to avoid any conflict of interest it should be a very special VSTi... a Digeridoo, maybe? ... or a virtual fly (the RoboInsect VSTi), why not?

Pepe
G.
Posted: 14th September 2001 05:24
quote:
Originally posted by G.:


you can try the SynC Modular patch, KS-Metal, from my site:
http://web.bham.ac.uk/G.Landini/music.htm
It is based on the Karplus-Strong algorithm and it was a collabortative job between a few members of the SynC list.
(with both true and simulated feedback)




I forgot to say that KS-Metal (and DX-G too) will run on the unregistered version of SynC Modular as well (although you will not be able to use the DirectX driver and so latency will not be that good.
G.
Ben [KVR]
Posted: 14th September 2001 10:18
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Kleps from reFX:
Hi Ben,

when you can do PHP, you also can do C/C++. The syntax is quite similar. Just try to take a look at the VST-SDK and the supplied PDF again.


What the hell, I'll do that, give me 12 months and I'll have a new Bassline monosynth for you all!!
Pepe
Posted: 14th September 2001 10:33
Oh yeah, Ben, gimme that bassline...

Pepe
putte
Posted: 14th September 2001 18:59
quote:
Originally posted by Ben@KvR:


What the hell, I'll do that, give me 12 months and I'll have a new Bassline monosynth for you all!!



Very good one!! Hehe...


putte
Teksonik
Posted: 16th September 2001 21:28
I'm new to VSTi synths but have owned hardware synths since my Juno 60 in the 80's.What I would like to see(and if this product exists please tell me)is a host that would let me "Rack 'em and Stack 'em" like the good old days of midi.I miss hitting the keys of my Esq-1 and hearing the Tx7,U-220,SQR-1 and Mt32 all play at the same time.Of course CPU power is a problem but with 2 Gigs a reality what the heck!
tufif
Posted: 17th September 2001 00:36
quote:
Originally posted by Marc555:
I'm new to VSTi synths but have owned hardware synths since my Juno 60 in the 80's.What I would like to see(and if this product exists please tell me)is a host that would let me "Rack 'em and Stack 'em" like the good old days of midi.I miss hitting the keys of my Esq-1 and hearing the Tx7,U-220,SQR-1 and Mt32 all play at the same time.Of course CPU power is a problem but with 2 Gigs a reality what the heck!


Go to:
http://www.dsound1.com
and check out the rt player pro demo. It lets you do this.
Uncle E
Posted: 17th September 2001 00:43
If you're using Cubase, activate multirecord under the options menu & set it to merge to play several VSTi's simultaneously.
autodafe
Posted: 17th September 2001 05:11
well, a free (or even commercial, but cheap) VST plug on the site will be a good idea. Any developer out there?

check out my music
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