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KVR Forum [Instruments] » Archive » Instruments » October 2001 Index | KVRFA1
AuthorTopic: A new idea for a VST
tyrant
Posted: 21st October 2001 20:00
Hello,

I came up with an idea for a new VST if possible. The idea is:

A VST that could process incoming midi note on messages and then translate into whatever CC# that the user defined for that key. Each key would be assigned a different user definable parameter from 0-127 for let say CC#74. This would allow you to play your filter as a rhythm bouncing back and forth between parameters. Also maybe you could set up each key so that the velocity from each note could control other parameters so that one key could control cutoff and the next could control resonance and so on up the keys. I don't know if any of this is possible or useful. Just coming up with ideas after playing around with Tobybear's quickeys. If I knew how to code I would attempt it but sadly I don't. Might be a good time to look into it.

George
tobybear
Posted: 22nd October 2001 05:03
One slight problem I see in your idea:
In Cubase (I assume you are using Cubase because Quickeys won't work with much else), you can't route live MIDI input to a MIDI/VSTi track. That means for example you can "play" Quickeys' virtual keyboard with your mouse and you can fed any recorded MIDI track into the plugin, BUT you cannot route "live" MIDI input (ie you playing on your external MIDI keyboard) <through> the plugin and into another VSTi, at least not as far as I know.

This is a Steinberg issue, if anybody knows a solution I have maybe overseen (except for the quirky MIDI loopback driver solution), please let me know!

Otherwise good idea and could be easily implemented, but would only make sense if aboce mentioned routing would work in Cubase.

Bye

Toby
www.tobybear.de
tyrant
Posted: 22nd October 2001 14:29
Damn Steinberg. Oh well I'll just keep on thinking and praying that Steinberg decides to allow all the developers some more freedom.

George
Collusion
Posted: 22nd October 2001 15:12
Just a thought - wouldn't it be possible to build a MIDI processing VSTi wrapper to do what Tyrant is talking about? I know some VSTi's can load VST FX plugs, but maybe a VSTi loading another VSTi is pushing it....?

If you're a Logic user, you could quite easily set something up in the Environment pages to convert MIDI notes to MIDI CCs....
WilliamK
Posted: 22nd October 2001 15:43
Could it be an stand-alone EXE file instead of VST?
If so I could give it a try...

Regards, Wk
vbfischer
Posted: 22nd October 2001 16:22
quote:
Originally posted by Collusion:
Just a thought - wouldn't it be possible to build a MIDI processing VSTi wrapper to do what Tyrant is talking about? I know some VSTi's can load VST FX plugs, but maybe a VSTi loading another VSTi is pushing it....?


Don't know if this is what you were thinking of, but I always thought a "Virtual Rack" VSTi would be cool. It would be like you said, a VSTi that can load VSTi/FX plugs. You save the Racks, then you can call them up easily...
Collusion
Posted: 22nd October 2001 17:13
Yeah, that's the sort of thing I meant, but with a MIDI processing section similar to Logic's Environment "Transformer" object to remap MIDI notes/CCs to VSTfx/VSTi parameters which would fulfil Tyrant's idea.
phincycle
Posted: 22nd October 2001 18:14
A-HA!

I CAN DO THAT IN REAKTOR!!

the sketches have begun

To be continued...
WilliamK
Posted: 22nd October 2001 18:21
Just a little comment: Infinity 2.03 has a VSTi/DXi host system. So you CAN built a RACK of VSTi's SAVE and LOAD any time you want.

www.squest.com
tyrant
Posted: 22nd October 2001 18:25
A stand-alone exe. would work good for me. I can route everything where I would want it to go then. Thanx for all the replies. This site is great for that reason. Lots of friendly peoples without the attitudes and egos that most places have.

George
WilliamK
Posted: 22nd October 2001 18:35
quote
Quote:
tyrant: A stand-alone exe. would work good for me.


I can work with Reaktor, but you need it to run.
Or I can do with Infinity and use the FreePlayer.exe to run it... I just need to know whan you need exactly.


Regards, Wk
tyrant
Posted: 22nd October 2001 18:42
Dash

What is FreePlayer.exe. I've never heard of it. I don't have Reaktor yet so that won't work. Thanx again

George
WilliamK
Posted: 22nd October 2001 19:02
quote
Quote:
Originally posted by tyrant: Dash What is FreePlayer.exe


Is an EXE file that loads things done with Infinity. So you don't need Infinity. You can get more info at www.squest.com.
Let me know what you need them I create the file for you and send with the InfinityPlayer atached.

Regards, Wk
vbfischer
Posted: 23rd October 2001 14:31
quote:
Originally posted by Dash-Synthesis:
Just a little comment: Infinity 2.03 has a VSTi/DXi host system. So you CAN built a RACK of VSTi's SAVE and LOAD any time you want.

www.squest.com


Yea, but when you already own Reaktor, and you only need the rack capability, $400 is a lot of money...
Collusion
Posted: 23rd October 2001 17:56
I think you should read Dash's posts again Bryce! Infinity comes with a FreePlayer.exe file for Infinity owners to distribute with the synths/FX/whatever they've designed which runs the Infinity files. People DON'T need the full version of Infinity to run it's files unlike Reactor files can only be run with the full version of Reactor. Dynamo can't do anything with them. This lead to Dynamo users starting quite a long discussion thread a couple of months ago.....
vbfischer
Posted: 23rd October 2001 18:45
quote:
Originally posted by Collusion:
I think you should read Dash's posts again Bryce! Infinity comes with a FreePlayer.exe file for Infinity owners to distribute with the synths/FX/whatever they've designed which runs the Infinity files. People DON'T need the full version of Infinity to run it's files unlike Reactor files can only be run with the full version of Reactor. Dynamo can't do anything with them. This lead to Dynamo users starting quite a long discussion thread a couple of months ago.....


No... I think I read his post correctly... Does the FreePlayer.exe come with a FreePLayer.dll so you can load it into a VST host? If not, its worthless to me.

What I want to do is be able to do something like Load a VSTi (like my PPG, route to some VST effects, and save this. Now, when I want to recall this configuration, all I need to do is load it once, and its recalled for multiple songs.

From what I understand, FreePlayer.exe will only let you load pre made Infinity files as a standalone only, not as a VSTi...

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Collusion
Posted: 23rd October 2001 20:54
My apologies Bryce,
FreePlayer *is* standalone only. However, I found this titbit at Dash's InfinitySynths site "Pro Player - same as the Free but you can also run as a VST-DXI-MFX plug-in". I don't know when it'll be out but it will be a huge improvement on Dynamo as it'll be able to run *any* Infinity file - it might even be cheaper.....

It's also worth pointing out that Reator can't yet load VSTi's - or at least it couldn't the last time I looked into it.....
Collusion
Posted: 23rd October 2001 21:11
One thing - are you on Logic, Cakewalk or Cubase/Nuendo? If you're on Logic you could copy your whole Audio Instrument object (VSTi and insert FX would go with it) to a bare LSO file's Environment page layer. All you'd have to do is import this layer into your new song if you wanted to reuse that particular configuration...

The limitation would be 24 Audio Instruments per LSO file....and that it'd be a bit long winded to do!


There's no such thing as a free lunch I guess....
WilliamK
Posted: 24th October 2001 10:24
Just a comment: Infinity PRO Player won't cost more than 99U$. And will be released soon.
vbfischer
Posted: 24th October 2001 10:41
quote:
Originally posted by Collusion:
My apologies Bryce,
FreePlayer *is* standalone only. However, I found this titbit at Dash's InfinitySynths site "Pro Player - same as the Free but you can also run as a VST-DXI-MFX plug-in". I don't know when it'll be out but it will be a huge improvement on Dynamo as it'll be able to run *any* Infinity file - it might even be cheaper.....

It's also worth pointing out that Reator can't yet load VSTi's - or at least it couldn't the last time I looked into it.....


That does sound interesting...

Any VST Maker's out there interested in writing a VSTi that is itself just a VST host? That would be cool...
vbfischer
Posted: 24th October 2001 10:43
quote:
Originally posted by Collusion:
One thing - are you on Logic, Cakewalk or Cubase/Nuendo? If you're on Logic you could copy your whole Audio Instrument object (VSTi and insert FX would go with it) to a bare LSO file's Environment page layer. All you'd have to do is import this layer into your new song if you wanted to reuse that particular configuration...

The limitation would be 24 Audio Instruments per LSO file....and that it'd be a bit long winded to do!


There's no such thing as a free lunch I guess....


hmmm... I'm on Logic.. Thats an interesting workaround... Maybe I'll try that until such a beast is available...
prophet
Posted: 24th October 2001 15:45
I dont understand!

pro player will cost up to $99. so how do you distribute your infinity synths as vsti synths?, people wont have to buy the player to run these infinity vsti's will they? because that would be pointless. is it just for the synth designers? how does it work?
vbfischer
Posted: 24th October 2001 16:15
quote:
Originally posted by prophet:
I dont understand!

pro player will cost up to $99. so how do you distribute your infinity synths as vsti synths?, people wont have to buy the player to run these infinity vsti's will they? because that would be pointless. is it just for the synth designers? how does it work?


Yes, (if I understand it correctly, and I think I do), you will need either the Pro Player to run infinity files with VST, and the free player if you want to run them standalone...

Infinity isn't a VSTi API... Its just like Reaktor, but apparently a little more flexible with distributing your creations... Now, if they only had a competetive upgrade like they do with their Editors...
Collusion
Posted: 24th October 2001 16:16
quote:
Originally posted by Collusion:
VSTi and insert FX would go with it


At least that's what I thought....I gave the idea a try and Logic only copies the audio object, without the plugins.

Sorry Bryce, looks like you'd have to select the plugs one at a time by hand and use the plugin's "copy settings" function to transfer the FX/VSTi plug's status.
michu
Posted: 24th October 2001 17:24
about original Q.
are you sure that the answer isn't already here ?
tyrant
Posted: 24th October 2001 22:36
quote
Quote:
Dash: Let me know what you need them I create the file for you and send with the InfinityPlayer atached.


I'm just looking for an application that can take incoming note on messages and translate them to whatever CC# I choose for an entire keyboard range. For example: C1 is assigned CC# 74 parameter 0 and then C#1 is assigned CC#74 parameter 1 and so on up the entire keyboard range. It would need the ability of allowing me to assign the keys however I wanted. Possibly the ability to assign one key with a certain CC# and having 128 velocity layers that could be customized to whatever parameters I would choose so I can bang one key to control filter for example and bang another key to control resonance. I'm in no hurry for the app. Just trying to find ways around the shortcomings of some synths and samplers (Never enough knobs or ways to route stuff) By the way, I downloaded your Infinity vocoder so I can check it out. Can't wait. Thanx

George
Michael Kleps from reFX
Posted: 24th October 2001 23:32
So in a nutshell, you want a pure-MIDI plug-in that is able to receive MIDI-events, and re-route them to any track converting them on the way. There has been talk about things like this (MIDI-plug-ins) for arpeggiators etc. on the VST developer mailing list some time ago. Steinberg said that it's not possible at the moment. I don't know how/if this changed over the course of time. Perhaps with the next major update (6.0)?
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