What's interesting about NI's price rises isn't whether NI are goodies or baddies for charging more. Or even how good there synths are.

What really matters is how they stack up against the indie product delivery model - the low cost download.

Still here? Read on ...

Over 12 months ago NI had the best synths on the market, and they charged accordingly ... and you got a cd for your money from a dealer (who needs another cd today?)

But right now, there are a fistful of top class synths for far less money than NI, synths that use low-cost delivery models, backed-up by a pdf manual and top-notch (and fun) email support. And there's more of these on the way.

I could suggest that NI need the extra profit from their higher prices just to SURVIVE with their high-cost delivery model?

Maybe they NEED their big volumes and big prices just to pay their staff wages bill every month. They're probably already on a wages and marketing overheads spiral as it is (it's okay, you're the one paying for it).

Meanwhile, if an enterprising indie designer can put together a winner synth at an attractive price, and sell 1,000 of them off the web, then he's a big winner (new car, new PCs, pay off the bank, girlfriend doesn't leave, etc) ... and so are we.

Just do the numbers: 1,000 sales multiplied by $75 or $150 user price. Then subtract bandwidth costs.

Yet again the indie formula wins for the user.

LAST QUESTION: How soon before the NI brand gets bought out by one of the majors looking for a fast track into the new game? 12 months? 18 months?

Tried Pentagon 1 yet?

For $30 Tau Pro can do things Pro-52 can't get near.

DR-008 includes a synth too ... and more enhancements are due.

I could go on ... maybe you could add a few yourself?

btw not so much thinking that Roland will buy the NI brand, probably a smaller synth company will ... but look at Giga. It's changed hands already.

Sorry if my thoughts spoil the cotton wool world of idealised synth worship. NI is no longer the boss of synths anymore than Man United is in football.

Too many good indies to let that happen.

Expect the new Delta in 02, and some great offerings from reFX. Expect a new Electron or Muon offering too.

I hope this is good news for you.

where 's that NI guy omar , we need his input here

Has NI increased prices? They make great products but the already steep prices keep them out of my hands. I'm not saying they're wrong for this, same as Kurzweil isn't wrong for charging as much as they do for thier workstations, it's just the way it is. The only difference I see is that some of the indie developers creating thier own stuff is can really be on par with NI's quality at a fraction of the price, but ultimately it's up to NI to decide thier prices. If they can afford to charge what they do then more power to them, that's just simple business. I am in agreement with people in this thread who think NI is going to be one of ther HUGE names in the synth market in a few years time. It wouldn't surprise me if NI started creating hardware synths that could be bundled with software versions of the instrument, allowing for the ultimate in studio and live control of synth, but that's just a theory. Anyway this is a capatalist market, and NI is by no means monopolizing it, so if one doesn't like thier prices he could always go elsewhere. Anyway that's just my oppinion, and you know what people say about those.

In two months we'll all be looking at this too:

http://www.refx.net/products/Nexus.php4

Meanwhile, comments like, er, "and see if NI is still king" are kind of dopey to me.

King? Crown? Best? Oh dear ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by kevvvvv:
[QB
King? Crown? Best? Oh dear ...

[/QB]

---

how 'bout still in buisness?? i d hate to have no more reaktor juss because some german manager dude just doesn't git internet economics...

quote:

---

Originally posted by kevvvvv:
[QB
King? Crown? Best? Oh dear ...

[/QB]

---

how 'bout still in buisness?? i d hate to have no more reaktor juss because some german manager dude just doesn't git internet economics...

This competitive environment is only good for the users in the end.

I love all of NI's stuff. I also love some of the less-expensive softsynths from smaller companies. Also, it's a great time for hardware synths (but then again, it always is): we can't lose! And it's only going to get better . . .

I want synergy: I want VSTi versions of hardware synths, and I want affordable controller keyboards that are also VSTi hosts.

Getting back on topic (sort of): I think that NI can do no wrong: they can continue to develop excellent softsynths, they can hop in bed with hardware synth companies, to help them create soft versions of their hardware synths, or they can develop products for other software: it would be a great day, indeed, if NI ever announced an FM7 or Pro-52 "module" for Reason.

NI shouldn't be going anywhere (meaning under) anytime soon.

Dash,

You've hit the $64,000,000 question. Prices and sales volumes are a constantly developing theme.

A year ago, there were so few VSTi end-users that selling a 100 synths was considered good. At that time, many designers were disappointed that their great synths hardly sold.

But as you know, sales in the many hundreds are now possible.

Designers are starting to see regular income each month.

Indie designers are looking to hit the 1,000 sales mark, and are actively exploring creative ways to do this, like you, with your price cut. It worked. Well done.

But on the other side of the coin, NI have spent a lot on advertising in SOS lately. These pages cost £2,000 each, at least. Allowing for distribution costs, that's at least 30 Reactors to sell just to break even on each page. Two pages of advertising is double that. No wonder they put their prices up!

Personally, I'd do whatever it takes to get volume of sales, and acquire USER BASE.

User base is the key to the future for any company.

Happy users equals ready-made customers for your new products as they roll out.

For an exciting company like yours with lots of new products, the low cost, high user base has to be a great option.

Suggestion: When you hit the 1,000 user mark, bring out a $250 product and see what happens. It could be sales-brilliant!

There is no case to comment on NI's
new prices as they don't appear to
have any new prices.

no prices? the stuff's free now?!?!?!?!?!

i try not to look at raven when he talks

I think this rumour of NI changing their prices is a ploy to get us to buy their stuff now!

I am wondering if they are waiting for
NAMM (17\01\02) before they release
Absynth for PC

I saw a post on their forum where they
confirmed it would be released January

I am wondering what other goodies they
might have up their sleaves to blow us
away.

if NI bought metasynth and ported it to pc i d never diss' em again, promise!

Kevvv, just to post a little note. Last month I had this "light" to drop the prices down to increase sales. Not that sales wasn't good, but we allways try to get more users to buy and also more money from it. So I droped ALL prices about 50% and the sales got up by almost 250%. So it was a good deal. Now I'm thinking on keeping prices lower, since is all on Downloable format. Users buy and download right away. I don't know why companies (not just NI, a lot of others) wants so BIG bucks for the software and don't offer Downloable versions. Software must allways be CHEAP, since you lose the value of it too quickly. Like this, I bought AXS and SimSynth programs a while back. I used like crazy. But now I don't use it anymore. And I can't sell it like some old Hardware I got here. The AXS is now FREE and works on Windows. SimSynth kinda sucks compared to other Free VST plug-ins. I know that Hardware loses the price value too, but never to 100%! Even my Ensoniq-Mirage gets me some bucks if I sell it!

Regards, WilliamK

didn`t mean it as a diss...more of a observation (+ the rumour wasn`t started by anyone at NI....or was it ? )

Just wondering if there is some mistake ?

On the front page here at KvR under More NAMM news:

Native Instruments Press Releases

The NI new products are priced in $
and Absynth is $289
but in
NI's new price list
Absynth (Mac)is the same figure (289) but in Euros
I would presume the Mac and pc version would be the same price and of course if this price should realy be the price in euro's instead of dollars
then it will be cheaper

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Raven ]

I guess for marketing they say 1 USD = 1 EUR, seems like Steinberg has also the same price policy now (e.g. LM-4 MkII 150 $ / 150 EUR).

But anyway, they are "list" prices, so "street" prices should be cheaper.

Absynth for Mac is 222 Euros at www.thomann.de, quite a bit cheaper than $289. I guess the PC version will be the same, and maybe even cheaper from MusicStore Koeln, where I bought Reaktor for about $350.

Nexus is higher on my priority list than any of the new NI stuff.

-CB

Kontakt: 399 $

Seems there was some trueth in the rumour after
all unless NI were reading this thread and thought
Hmmmm that seems like a good idea !!!!

From their online shop page

quote:

---

New Prices Starting February 2002

In response to market developments and the growing demand for certain
sides of software development, as well as product support and service, our
prices will change marginally starting in February 2002.

Until the end of January you can still buy our products at the current
prices by ordering through our Online Shop.
Click here to see the new price list 02/2002

---

From that can we deduce IMHO that these new products
will not be available for puchase untill then ???

quote:

---

Originally posted by telxosss:
Actually once absynth is out for the PC im done buying anything for a long long time.

---

Yeah, and I just smoked my last cigarette.

Pepe

Crystal Ball Here
=================

NI's marketing-distribution-jerkoff-overhead prices will create new opportunities for the indie designer.

Volume-conscious indies will create more NI-soundalikes for half the price and steal even more of the middle-low end of the market.

(who's got $400 to blow every month?)

So maybe 6 month's from now, NI's prices will do us all a favour, and we'll see even more indie synths in the sub-$100-150 range.

Maybe better synths too.

After all, this year we saw Pentagon top the once-invincible Pro-52, and for $50 less. That's value!

Maybe we'll see things like $150 Nexus take on $300 Absynth? Whatever, it'll probably be good

Well as NI say

quote:

---

In response to market developments and the growing demand for certain
sides of software development

---

The increases are only marginal and if this
is to cover the extra cost of research and
development to take VSTi's to a higher leavel
with things like physically modeld acoustic
instruments it's not so bad if you look at
it as though you are sponsering this development.

quote:

---

CM: Have you thought about producing an
acoustic piano software instrument? How do NI
feel about emulating acoustic instruments?
MK: We feel that the next step on from modeling
electronic instruments is modeling acoustic
instruments. T his is something that I want to be involved in and we are working towards it. But
because the complexity of acoustic instruments is higher and less clear-cut there is a lot of research and development that still needs to be done before this kind of instrument makes it into a professional software product that can satisfy musicians . We are convinced that there is a need
for acoustic software instruments and we are working on technology to make them reality.

---

And who knows that might include that guitar
VSTi you have been craving Kevvvvv
although now you have the real thing that probably
doesn't have as much appeal to you now

Anyway just like Mr kippling makes exceedingly
good cakes, N.I make exceedingly good VST's

quote:

---

Originally posted by telxosss:
Has anyone entertained the idea that the NI prices are actually coming down?

here is from the NI website online shop for absynth:
"The benchmark for the future of soft synths. more...
Price: 299.00 USD "

here is from the KVR namm report:
"ABSYNTH for PC will be released in March 2002 at a retail price of $ 289."

Isnt the retail price and the price on the NI online shop the same? Reaktor is $499 on the ni online shop but costs $379 at any music store it seems.

---

I paid the equivalent of about $350 for Reaktor 3 (Music Store Koeln via Internet) and Thomann has McAbsynth listed at 222 Euros, which is around $200 US.

-CB

quote:

---

Originally posted by kevvvvv:

Volume-conscious indies will create more NI-soundalikes for half the price and steal even more of the middle-low end of the market.

---

I doubt the indies even at lower prices are outselling NI, but of course there's room for everyone. Also it seems indies are primarily VSTi only. The softsynth user base is expanding quickly and it's not only DXi, it's also MAS and ProTools

-david abraham