Talk about taking yourselves seriously, this is what happens when NI buyout the only competition (sync modular). I also heard a rumour that NI is actually being run by Steve Balmer now hence the usa "office", hence these practices. In technology we usually expect more for less.

So I add the prices up, Reaktor, B4, FM7, Steins guitar vsti and so on. And where is the revolution ? Before long you could spend $3000 on instruments. Instruments that do very little except a very unique function and characteristic sound and nothing else.

Tell me, yeah, I can have a Triton, boards and extensions for that.

Are they as good as korg and their physical models. Hmm I think not. Is Reaktor as good as a Nord Modular - no way.

NI and their other greedy friend emagic kills what they started. Long live the independent developers. I only hope they stay around otherwise it gets worse.

You can buy Reaktor 3.0.5 for £190 from www.digitalvillage.co.uk and then get a free update to 3.3 so its not that expensive.

God I wish I could afford to get Reaktor as it sounds (from the comp) really good, a very impressive and versatile instrument.

I know that 190 pounds doesn't look like much but for those of us in Aus, it equals about $570. For those of us who are students, that is just about as unreachable as the sun

Michael

If there is any kind soul out there who would take pity on a poor muso/student.....

as phenominal as many of the synths made by independent developers are, they will never have price tags like NI because NI can charge almost any price because they are NI. Now, of course sometimes products are not worth what a company charges, and if that is the case then the forces of economics will punish the company for charging at a a price point beyond the demand curve. The reviews in the music media are can be a determining factor of willingness of people to pay, but most reviews I've read in Keyboard lately rarely say the product is not worth getting.

Interesting to bring up Sync Modular, this seems like a very strategic move in order to push the price of Reaktor higher. Anyways, NI knows that pro musicians are going to grab Reaktor anyways, so they can maximize the profits.

I'll stick with companies like Linplug and Sonic Reality thanks. These people make quality instruments and they are affordable.
but don't forget these instruments by independents don't take years of R & D to create. Kontact and Sampletank XL are examples of vst instruments that take lots of money to make because they are very complex and require a larger programming team to accomplish

As much as high prices piss the little guys off, there are thousands of pros and semi pros who will do anything to get their hands on Reaktor

If you email native instruments ask them about the discount they give to students(aslong as you have a national student card ID), I'm sure I read that someone got it for a lot cheaper, they just don't like to advertise it.....

I think some people in this scene seem to forget that companies like NI aren't exactly IBM. These guys started as independents not so long ago, and just happened to make some good moves (probably including buying Sync) and some great software along the way.

In my opinion, Reaktor is an absolutely amazing product. I'd love to see a Triton do a 1/10th of what it can (or any hardware synth within $500 of its price tag for that matter).

Thankfully for NI a wide array of professional musicans look past the developer – and focus on the tools they provide.

And beyond that, just because Sync Modular decides to market itself the shareware route (with extremely little overhead mind you, thus a non-comparable cost basis) and put a tiny price tag on their offering, doesn't make NI’s WORTH any less. That’s as pathetic as the single-dimensional “if Linux is free then all operating systems should be free” argument. This is the free market guys, they wouldn’t be charging it if customers weren’t willing to pay. Anyone with any marketing knowledge knows that raising prices is one of the most difficult moves a company can make – if NI is doing it, they most likely have reason to.

Personally I think this punk rock "support the little guy, snub the big guy” movement is arrogant bullshit. I'm good friends with, and have worked with a good deal of the "little guys", and they're insanely intelligent and great people (of course, I don’t know a single one that wouldn’t love to be the big guy) - but some of the “bigger” guys [Native (60+), Props (12+)] are no worse. They make powerful, well supported, and widely accepted (which of course makes them uncool) products.

Except cakewalk of course – fuck them.

Dont forget to add about 1000$ in computer hardware to any majorly intense instruments like reaktor, because that's what you need to run 8-16 voices of it with various ensembles. Sure, you can swap around and run differant vsti's that's why native instruments called themselves native instruments. But add up the HARDWARE component of an involved vsti, remember they do take hardware to run, and you're basically in the same price range as about any digital hardware synth, especially if you consider knob-laden interfaces, and the soundcard just to play in real-time. Stuff really isnt as cheap as it all looks in the end.
Not saying it's not worth it, NI are on top because they have the most attention to detail and quality product in many ways. I do however think it's kinda funny for people to justify HIGHER prices for products that are no doubt growing MORE popular all the time! That's not really how it works here in the USA, competition forces prices down. The better something is selling, the more demand, the more prices drop and huge sales are done to draw customers in, which is good for customers. Thus the Sync modular point is pretty valid, because it shines a little light on the fact that NI is becoming a monopoly in some areas.

I dont blame them for wanting to add some of the best of a competiter (low cpu useage, which has become one of their trademarks) but when that comes from buying out competiters, it's nearing a monopoly. It's kinda weird how everyone here asked for a reaktor player, and now they knock one up, with a relatively high price, and also knock the price of reaktor convienently up some. Just seems a little weird. Just thought i'd throw that in.

I don't think that reaktor and sync are on the same par. They could be, but there not.

At least for me.

With reaktor you get instantly a bunch of really good usable interesting synths.

Sync, you get some real good user stuff, but that is it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think sync had a grain cloud (please correct me if I'm wrong). That is what I like most about reaktor.

dw

Firstly, think abot what NI have done. Yes they have raised the price of Reaktor for 3.3. But they've also given you four months notice of the price rise. And thats four months in which to buy a copy of Reaktor and get the upgrade -free-.
I think that's pretty bloody generous, to be honest. As was their decision to let me upgrade from Sync for only fifty quid. I really have a hard time seeing that kind of attitude towards existing customers, and potential buyers, as anything negative at all.
In fact what they are doing probably won't affect most Reaktor users at all. Most people don't build their own ensembles from the ground up. Believe it or not slightly more limited low-level functionality, but a wider possible range of prebuilt high-level modules will probably appeal to more people. So the 'full' Reaktor becomes a developers kit for the 'easy' Reaktor.
Ninety-nine percent of new users wont give a damn. The 1% that do, will buy it now, and get 3.3 for free.
And yes it is a big price rise. But its still cheaper than Photoshop!

Oh yeah, and BTW - With Sonar 2, Cakewalk have addressed -every- major feature request I've seen on their newsgroup, from rewire to multiple audio outs on softsynths. Don't know where sine909's vitriol comes from but I consider it pretty unfounded.

[ 14 March 2002, 11:34: Message edited by: WhyteRabbyt ]

Oh and BTW; SynC still exists, and as soon as the good Dr gets things sorted out with the German authorities, it will be available for registration again. NI did NOT kill off or buy out SynC. They merely hired the developer, who has steadfastly continued support, bugfixes, and even found time to add new features..

..but the bottom line is that anyone interested in getting Reaktor would be better off getting it now rather than waiting for the player, simply because for the same price you get the same functionality AND the option to build synths later if you fancy it.

What I want to know is whether people think Absynth and Reaktor are different enough to warrant buying both?

H

Since they've pit nice tweakable multi-stage envelopes into FM7 and Kontakt, I'm hoping they provide a similar facility in 3.3, if not as an actual enveloper generator, then as a variant of the value table components, but with curves/lines/breakpoints instead of levels...

So how would UK users get this update from Dynamo to Reaktor Session for $99 when it comes out.

Would it be available as a download, shipped from america, sold in UK outlets as an update package?

I've never had to update a boxed product...how does it work?

...I meant "shipped from Germany"

Thanks Polyhex, it seems like a great idea, will contact them and ask for a quote. Still, I wonder if they will accept an Australian or International Student ID?

Michael

Yeah I think i'll bite their bullet and buy it before then .. hmm but i'm still not sure.

Will Reaktor session have the same features as reaktor 3.3 ? Namely the ability to make environments of ensembles and mix it all together like in their pictures ?

According to the blurb Session can 'load any instrument constructed with REAKTOR'. As far as I can work out, the lowest-level 'unit' that Session seems to deal with looks as though its now an Ensemble or an Instrument, but that the ensemble is no longer the 'top-level' unit, ie you can have multiple ensembles running in Session, and patch ensemble into each other...

Like someone said, it IS up to consumers to decide if the price is too high or not, and react accordingly. My financial side tells me FM7 is NOT worth more than B4 or Battery. Thus, I own B4 and Battery, but not FM7. I did pick up Reaktor 3 and Nord Modular Rack after long considerations of building a true modular. Even after the price increase you can buy Reaktor 3.3 for around the price of two good modular oscillators. If you want to talk value, consider all the seperate VSTi's you can make from Reaktor. If you buy it, just make sure you use it.

Robert

[ 15 March 2002, 18:06: Message edited by: Rabid ]