KVR: Forum Archive - Emulating the Big Beat Sound

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Author	Topic: Emulating the Big Beat Sound
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 15:51
	a while back i posted a similar thread about making Squarepusher/Aphex Twin style beats, and I got some unbelievable replies, which eventually led me to the program Taureg for chopping breakbeats. Now maybe someone can help me on this: I'm looking for a drum collection that has really BIG sounds, ala Chemical Bros., Massive Attack, Prodigy, etc. Any good collections for download that are cheap? What vsti's have the types of features to make the drums sound so big? Is it more in the effects? When do you use reverb to fatten drums? What types of compressors/compression settings would one apply to kill the drums like that? One more quick question: How do you make a 909 kick drum sit in a mix the best it can? I feel like I'm pushing the 909 too hard and it's so distorted that it's not doing it's job properly. I want it clean and fat Thanks everyone in advance
putte	Posted: 16th March 2002 15:58
	"When it comes to BigBeats, Compression is all" - putte
pHuzZ	Posted: 16th March 2002 16:03
	- more to do with your previous drum question - but was x/razor mentioned for chopping beats in the earlier thread? - it appears to no longer be in development but the old beta i have is pretty stable and does the job better than the variator in tuareg [even though i love that app too] - it also supports vst effects and you can tweak the attack etc. of each slice independently - im not sure if its still available anywhere on the net [maz might still have it] but if anyone wants it let me know and ill either mail it to you or post it on my site for a couple of days - on the subject of big drum sounds - i have a folder on my hd labelled 'hiphop' that i use for this kind of chemicals/propellerheads loop - if i can track down where i got them from ill let you know - cheers rob phuzzy_logical
pHuzZ	Posted: 16th March 2002 16:06
	- putte - what sort of compression settings do you suggest - and what compressor do you use [i usually use endorphin - i know its free but i love its sound] - im interested because im still at the 'play with the knobs and sliders until it sounds ok' - not at all analytical or methodical - im sure there has to be better way - cheers rob phuzzy_logical
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 16:31
	hey phuzzy, I use endorphin for mastering my tracks. I know it is intended for people who know how to use compressors, but I think it's good for newbies too, because you can just tweak it a bit and it does the trick. It's really good for making sure that your track is loud, but won't appear to clip very smooth plugin I remember X-razor was mentioned in that last thread, but Taureg was so good that I never ended up trying that program. Let me know if it surfaces Thanks guys(and gals as of lately)
spectrum	Posted: 16th March 2002 16:40
	You gonna LOVE Stylus Mr. Tunes.... mp3 demos and video coming to the site soon..... spectrum
fitch	Posted: 16th March 2002 16:44
	phuzzy&mr.tunes... where would you get this "endorphin"? can you give me a link....please
donkey tugger	Posted: 16th March 2002 16:57
	try: http://hem.passagen.se/lej97/kalava/ there are a couple of huge snares and lots of other lofi stuff good for breaks, and its free!
Collusion	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:00
	The site for Endorphin seems to be down at the moment Fitch. There are other options however..... Smart Electron:x H2O compressor Smart Electron:x Cyanide waveshaping distortion Heavy tube or tape saturation and mild distortion effects work well for Big Beat.
THK	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:01
	You'll find links to Endorphin and lots of other great freeware here : http://www.databaseaudio.co.uk/ (H2O and DMM-SC1 are also very nice free compressor plugins) [ 16 March 2002, 20:02: Message edited by: THK ]
Collusion	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:03
	...oops forgot to add another link my previous post. For all your VST plugin FX needs : The Big VST FX List at Steinberg's site
fitch	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:03
	oooh... lots of goodies thanks a million
putte	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:12
	hi fitch don´t forget to download the PSP-demo´s as well: http://www.psp-audioware.com best wishes putte . . . (fitch - I am still amazed..jaha!)
fitch	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:31
	thanks putte, I'll have a listen to the other track this weekend...
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:41
	ahh spectrum you never fail to tease this kvr community last night you mentioned Atmosphere and now you have to remind me of Stylus!!!! I wish I knew your tricks on getting the right drum sounds. Are Stylus drum sounds mostly processed before(compression, eq), or do they somehow get processed in the Plugsound interface? Stylus looks very exciting and it's definitely way up there on my wishlist
donkey tugger	Posted: 16th March 2002 17:44
	I downloaded your track putte, its excellent,Kind of remined me of early Blue Nile stuff with a touch of ol blue eyes Sinatra. keep it up young man
Raven	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:00
	you just increased your post count 100% everyone reaches for their ash trays
putte	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:12
	quote: Originally posted by donkey tugger: anpther one of my freak bizzare accidents! LOLO! Really had to laugh on this one. (because I know accidents like this, hehe) Thanks very much donkey tugger for your compliment. And sorry mrtunes for going off-topic.. putte [ 16 March 2002, 21:13: Message edited by: putte ]
spectrum	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:28
	quote: Originally posted by mr. tunes: ahh spectrum you never fail to tease this kvr community last night you mentioned Atmosphere and now you have to remind me of Stylus!!!! I wish I knew your tricks on getting the right drum sounds. Are Stylus drum sounds mostly processed before(compression, eq), or do they somehow get processed in the Plugsound interface? Stylus looks very exciting and it's definitely way up there on my wishlist Cool....more info on Stylus soon...Mac version's just about ready to ship. (Oh...and please don't say "Plugsound" interface....it isn't Plugsound and it has a completely original custom interface.) Thanks for helping to keep the confusion to a minimum. spectrum
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:39
	sorry i meant plugsound engine
bajongo	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:42
	Hi Spectrum, nice, diplomatic way of saying "You wanna know my secrets of sound design? Forget it!"
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:47
	haha! so true however, there is money in giving your secrets away if you publish a book. But then they aren't secrets anymore
autoy	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:49
	Back on topic, I think big beat's mostly based on Akai MPC sample drum machines and other old Linn drums. I guess the best way to get this done via softsynth should be Battery, whith that gorgeus bit-reduction and a couple of drumsets that can be found here at KVR.
bajongo	Posted: 16th March 2002 18:51
	Nothing wrong with keeping some secrets when you can make money out of them. I do that, too.
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 19:01
	hmmm... the MPC eh? I don't need that expensive box - although all my favorite producers use it, but that still doesn't mean I need it So are you saying it's the lo-fi sound? I thought it was a mix of lo-fi samples with crisp clean fat ones?
crimsonwarlock	Posted: 16th March 2002 19:16
	For you guys that want to download the Endorphin plugin, I have a review of a previous (beta) version on my site with links to the Endorphin website and direct download of the current version. http://www.orion-central.com/reviewendorphin.shtml
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 19:39
	ummm how is Battery different than any other drum vsti sampler for doing big beat? Does it having anything specific that's so good for fat sounds?
autoy	Posted: 16th March 2002 19:46
	mr. tunes: I don't do any Big Beat but as far as I know bit reduction plays an important role. This can be achived by many ways. Basses are as well fuzzy (clip distortion shuld be useful here). If you don't need an MPC, Battery should behave very well like one.
TristezaOrange	Posted: 16th March 2002 19:54
	Sorry for causing off-topic alert for the second time on the same thread but doesnt the 'saturation' control on H20 do wonders to the sound? I mean, its GREAT!
spectrum	Posted: 16th March 2002 20:09
	quote: Originally posted by bajongo: Hi Spectrum, nice, diplomatic way of saying "You wanna know my secrets of sound design? Forget it!" Sorry...I was just tunnel visioned in on Stylus! (a pretty all-consuming process these days...) No...I don't believe in sound design secrets actually. The whole point is that everyone does it differently. What makes a musician unique is not the tools and techniques, but the heart and soul of the person. God doesn't limit creativity, so why should we? That said, I'll tell you how I approach it. As intersting as bit reduction and distortion techniques are, that's not how most of the Dance/Hip-Hop/Breakbeat producers do it. (The distorted beat thing is something else entirely). It has much more to do with working with extremely poor qualtiy original source vinyl recordings and loops, and then compressing the snot out of it in the mix. The classic formula is MPC or cheap Akai sampler, with SSL console buss compression in the mix. My secret weapon for this kind of compression is the Reason compressor across the Reason stereo buss....it sounds almost EXACTLY like the SSL compressor...perfect! For Stylus, we cut our own vinyl lps and sampled them, making a huge variety of original "lo-fi" material...then the process was to "pump it up" later...which is how the Dance guys do it. I used to try it the opposite way (Hi-fi samples run through FX pedals and Lofi FX)...but it sounds much more real to do the opposite (Lo-Fi samples run through Hi-Fi gear. (At least it's more authentic that way) spectrum PS. BTW Mr. Tunes, I hate to belabor the point, but we don't use the Plugsound engine...it's a custom version of the UVI engine. [ 16 March 2002, 23:10: Message edited by: spectrum ]
dusted william	Posted: 16th March 2002 20:22
	spectrum- I've thought about the same thing ie. to pressy my beats to vinyl. Anyway a question about sylus. I like to make my own beats. I think that is what I do best, but I do like new sounds. Is Specturm set up so we can either loop a beat, and or play our own rhythms with our midi input of choice? I would pick up stylus more for the sounds then the beats themselves. thanks dw
bajongo	Posted: 16th March 2002 20:54
	Hi Spectrum, thanx for the insight on how you did these things. Sure God gave us our creativity. There are things that are worth being kept as a secret like a cool algorithm in software (perfect pitch shifting, super analog sounding filters, perfect timestretching, etc.) or how to make a motor with 500 horse powers which needs 1 gallon of gas for a 1000 miles. These things are worth some serious money. And I thought that a pro sound designer like you has some REAL secrets for his stuff also. Peace.
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 21:39
	well there you have it folks, to make bigbeat press beats to vinyl, then use the Reason compressor! If it was only so easy to take what someone else does and do it yourself. I think Spectrum gave me much more inspiration by saying there are no secrets and it's how you do things individually. I'm just gonna keep experimenting. Thanks everyone BTW: Dusted I think there are vinyl scratch samples in Stylus. I was thinking the same question about the beats. Spectrum are there drum n' bass/jungle beats in Stylus?
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 16th March 2002 21:40
	BTW Spectrum I'll never mention the P-word again!
JM Drum Guru	Posted: 17th March 2002 01:21
	Spectrum- Does your first name start with an E? ......last name probably starts with a P?
donkey tugger	Posted: 17th March 2002 01:32
	sorry to post off topic again (i'm pissed as a fart), just got in, fuck knows w'appen!) When i get my big fat white arse in gear you might br able to hear some of my music (big beat, big strings, tug those hearts mmmr neil diamond) Sorry all, I am a fool
spectrum	Posted: 17th March 2002 01:36
	quote: Originally posted by dusted william: spectrum- I've thought about the same thing ie. to pressy my beats to vinyl. Anyway a question about Stylus. I like to make my own beats. I think that is what I do best, but I do like new sounds. Is Stylus set up so we can either loop a beat, and or play our own rhythms with our midi input of choice? I would pick up stylus more for the sounds then the beats themselves. thanks dw ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! You will love it! That's the coolest thing about Stylus is creating your own stuff with all the cool sounds it has. That's what Groove Control is really all about. The breatbeats and grooves that Stylus comes with are really just a starting point for your own creativity. (FYI, that why we are now using the term "core library" intead of "sample library", since the samples it comes with are just the beginning...the real fun is in making your own stuff with all the synth control, which is all automatable. Everything in Stylus is sliced up (38,000 samples!) so you can rearrange anything and everything via MIDI. Every slice has its own Filters, Envelopes, Pitch settings! (but it's super easy to use) So you can go nuts! There are also over one thousand kicks, a thousand snares, 500 hi-hat samples, a thousand turtable fx samples, etc, etc etc. Stylus is so deep, it is really hard to get a sense of it just by looking at the interface (which is intentionally really streamlined). Stylus beta testing is almost finished, and it has been totally cool to hear how all these different beta testers from around the world have used it in such individual and unique ways. I was blown away hearing the demos. We're going to put the demos up on the site as soon as we are shipping, along with a "commentary" track (like DVDs have) from each composer and remixer showing how they made their demo with Stylus (breaking the track down and showing the "before and after" of the original loops, and then how they mutated it). I'm really excited by this, because it's not just a demo of the sounds, but also a way to share techniques about remix production and cool stuff that can be done with the instrument. We'll also post the quicktime video of my NAMM demo of Stylus, so you can see how it works in action. ......about two weeks from now. spectrum
spectrum	Posted: 17th March 2002 01:40
	quote: Originally posted by JM Drum Guru: Spectrum- Does your first name start with an E? ......last name probably starts with a P? That's me!! (Eric Persing from Spectrasonics) And now....who are you my good neighbor in Burbank? (you are probably just around the corner!) spectrum
dusted william	Posted: 17th March 2002 02:19
	cool, sounds like something just for me. dw
fenrirpeter	Posted: 18th March 2002 14:53
	Hello everybody! I have been trying to do the "Drumloop of doom" latelely... You know what I mean? Fat drumbreak with lots of reverb... Has anybody any tips on reverb plugins and settings that work good for this? I have te cubase32 reverb and those in the waves package... Thanks!
rezon8	Posted: 18th March 2002 16:43
	holy cow! My opinion of this board just shot up a notch (just kidding...i love this site). Eric I'm a long time fan ever since fooling with a JX-8P for the first time in a music store many many moons ago. And of course the legendary D-50 Digital Native Dance (back in the days when Roland seemed to be releasing new stuff....not rehashed versions of the same hardware year after year). Keep up the good work!
spectrum	Posted: 18th March 2002 19:13
	quote: Originally posted by rezon8: holy cow! My opinion of this board just shot up a notch (just kidding...i love this site). Eric I'm a long time fan ever since fooling with a JX-8P for the first time in a music store many many moons ago. And of course the legendary D-50 Digital Native Dance (back in the days when Roland seemed to be releasing new stuff....not rehashed versions of the same hardware year after year). Keep up the good work! Thanks friend! Fond memories of the JX-8P days....That was my first trip to Japan and my first synth that I did the factory patches for. All the best, spectrum (EP)
JM Drum Guru	Posted: 18th March 2002 21:07
	From Spectrum quote: And now....who are you my good neighbor in Burbank? John Magness- I use your sounds all the time, I own the Vdrums(I'm a drummer), a D50 (in High School) and about 4 or5 of your sample Cds. I rip em to Acid/Logic EXS24 and use em to play along with. I'ts kinda like a being a DJ/Drummer quote: (you are probably just around the corner!) Oh Definitely!, Isnt everything in Burbank just around the corner? I could walk out my back yard, throw a rock and hit Bombfactory.(Not that I would) For a city in Los Angleles ,it at times feels like Mayberry. I cant wait to see Stylus in action, is sounds like its gonna be pretty dangerous! A thousand Kicks!!!! A Thousand Snares!! I'm gonna have " Analysis Paralysis" AKA "Option Anxiety" [ 19 March 2002, 00:10: Message edited by: JM Drum Guru ]
spectrum	Posted: 18th March 2002 21:32
	quote: Originally posted by JM Drum Guru: From Spectrum quote: And now....who are you my good neighbor in Burbank? John Magness- I use your sounds all the time, I own the Vdrums(I'm a drummer), a D50 (in High School) and about 4 or5 of your sample Cds. I rip em to Acid/Logic EXS24 and use em to play along with. I'ts kinda like a being a DJ/Drummer quote: (you are probably just around the corner!) Oh Definitely!, Isnt everything in Burbank just around the corner? I could walk out my back yard, throw a rock and hit Bombfactory.(Not that I would) For a city in Los Angleles ,it at times feels like Mayberry. I cant wait to see Stylus in action, is sounds like its gonna be pretty dangerous! A thousand Kicks!!!! A Thousand Snares!! I'm gonna have " Analysis Paralysis" AKA "Option Anxiety" Cool.....the locals arrive at KvR...this place needs a few more of us braindead, culturally deficient LA types! Maybe I'll run into you at Market City downtown. (it's the only place my wife ever wants to go for lunch) Been to Mambo's yet on Victory?...Killer Cuban place, and a big musician hangout. :-) All the best, spectrum
JM Drum Guru	Posted: 18th March 2002 22:07
	quote: Cool.....the locals arrive at KvR...this place needs a few more of us braindead, culturally deficient LA types! Maybe I'll run into you at Market City downtown. (it's the only place my wife ever wants to go for lunch) Great Breadsticks there!! quote: Been to Mambo's yet on Victory?...Killer Cuban place, and a big musician hangout. I should check it out!!
dirtyaudio	Posted: 19th March 2002 00:32
	I must admit, you west coasters are strange. C'mon - breadsticks?
Pepe	Posted: 19th March 2002 01:46
	Yo Amerikanski are strange! At least from the point of view of an European like me... BTW, what do you guys mean with "BigBeat"? Stuff like "Moby" or "Fat Boy Slim"? Pepe
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 19th March 2002 02:06
	quote: Originally posted by Pepe: BTW, what do you guys mean with "BigBeat"? Stuff like "Moby" or "Fat Boy Slim"? Thanks Pepe for getting us back on track, I was just about to get back to that. Norman Cook aka Fat Boy Slim is one big beat artist I was thinking. I also forgot to mention The Chrystal Method and Propellerheads(not the software company)

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