KVR: Forum Archive - Best VSTi for Pads??!

KVR Forum [Instruments] » Archive » Instruments » March 2002 Index | KVRFA1

Author	Topic: Best VSTi for Pads??!
prophet	Posted: 23rd March 2002 17:21
	since we've been on the subject for the best vsti for this and that, i thought id ask what you guys thought would be the best for making pads? im really needing something with a lot of depth, something that would be ideal for trance. I know nexus would have been amazing, but since thats on hold, anyone know of anything as good as if not better? thanks in advance
MotorsKill23	Posted: 23rd March 2002 20:34
	FM7, Absynth, VirsynTera, PentigonI. I still get alot of mileage from PPGWave which I layer sometimes four patches deep
stogie21	Posted: 23rd March 2002 21:07
	yeah pentagon 1 is usually the one i go to when i need a pad. there are some very nice pad soundfonts out there as well.
kevvvvv	Posted: 23rd March 2002 21:12
	Sonic Synth has a fairly large pad section.
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 23rd March 2002 22:56
	Atmosphere If you are serious about what you ask for, then my friend you will wait for Atmosphere If you read the bassline thread you will get my dark humour. I love the pads in Sonic Synth... They are truly beautiful... take my breath away
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 00:08
	quote: Originally posted by mr. tunes: Atmosphere If you are serious about what you ask for, then my friend you will wait for Atmosphere If you read the bassline thread you will get my dark humour. Thanks Mr. Tunes..... Here we go again! spectrum [ 24 March 2002, 03:10: Message edited by: spectrum ]
realmarco	Posted: 24th March 2002 01:47
	Absynth hands down(right now at least)
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 02:21
	quote: Originally posted by realmarco: Absynth hands down(right now at least) Absynth IS really fantastic for Pads... Kudos to Brian Clevinger for one of my favorite instruments (hardware or software)...an absolute essential IMHO....highly recommended. For those who might wonder the difference sonically between something like Absynth and Atmosphere....a synth like Absynth is pure DSP, and although extremely flexible, it has a real "sound" to it (a very good one I might add!), but like all DSP-based instruments, they are somewhat limited to that one "color" they always produce. (Absynth never really gets as gritty as say a Memorymoog, for example) Now I know that saying that Absynth is limited is tantamount to heresy, but in truth, all synths are limited....just in different ways. The cool thing about a large wavetable based instrument like Atmosphere is that it's texture is more chameleon-like, since the core sample wavetable comes from a massive array of hardware and software synths using nearly every conceivable synthesis method, so combining layers gives a lot more textural flexibility than something like Absynth does. (Although Absynth does more in the way of modulation, multi-break point envelopes and some unique DSP FX, etc). Both instruments sound great and are really flexible in different ways. I'm just pointing out the pros and cons to two different approaches for comparisons sake, since this is particularly related to pads. spectrum (aka: Eric Persing from Spectrasonics) [ 24 March 2002, 05:23: Message edited by: spectrum ]
Tronam	Posted: 24th March 2002 04:17
	Will Atmosphere also be in the same price range of $399 as your bassline synth? I might be more willing to invest that kind of money into something like that, than purely a bass synth. -Tronam
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 05:57
	quote: Originally posted by Tronam: Will Atmosphere also be in the same price range of $399 as your bassline synth? I might be more willing to invest that kind of money into something like that, than purely a bass synth. -Tronam Yeah...same setup as Trilogy $399 price...3 gig....1000 patches 1000 layers and one million combinations. Should keep you busy for a while! spectrum [ 24 March 2002, 09:00: Message edited by: spectrum ]
Mal DuFunq	Posted: 24th March 2002 05:59
	Spectrum advertised: quote: The cool thing about a large wavetable based instrument like Atmosphere... Now Spectrum, as per our last discussion you seem like a good guy (or at least a good salesman), and I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but my god do you have to plug your plug-in every single post??? Do you confine it just to this group or do you go to other web boards? I can just see it: Concerned Mom: What's the best cure for diaper rash? Spectrum: Well, Atmosphere, with 3 GB of samples has the ability to soothe irritated babies and never has there been an instance when it made diaper rash worse. Sure, at $399 it costs a bit more than Johnson's Baby Powder or Desitin, but keep in mind Atmosphere does so much more than mere powders or ointments. You can separate yourself from the company every once in awhile can't you? Mal
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 06:10
	Very funny Mal...but check out my other posts before jumpin on me....I'm not always plugging... You just aren't gonna give me a break are ya? just one opinion. spectrum
Mal DuFunq	Posted: 24th March 2002 06:30
	Spectrum, him say: quote: ... but check out my other posts before jumpin on me... I did and even though I'm sitting down at the moment, I stand corrected. To err is human, to air is Jordan, Mal
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 06:44
	quote: Originally posted by Mal DuFunq: To err is human, to air is Jordan, Mal Righteous! (BTW, saw you're a Funk Fan....did I tell you about our Retro Funk product?.....) Jes Kiddin! spectrum [ 24 March 2002, 09:46: Message edited by: spectrum ]
Mal DuFunq	Posted: 24th March 2002 08:17
	Retro Funk, eh? Good stuff from what I hear, but you just delivered another pet peeve of mine: sample CD's are overpriced! I program 80-90% of my own drum parts with the spare sampled loop or two filling out the remainder, so I don't really have too much use for the Sample CD. I did buy a few very early on at that god-awful full price of $99 and mind you, back then they were exclusively audio CDs, no wavs or aiffs. Consequently, I usually left the playing field broken and disappointed. Nowadays, I check the major players for clearances and pick up the hitherto $99 outrage for $30-50 when the need arises. To me, that's what they're worth, $30-50. Out of sync with the market, but never out of sync with the drummer, Mal PS Here's a quote from your Retro Funk description: quote: Turn a GoGo groove into Deep House, a JB Boogaloo into Drum & Bass, a Fatback P-Funk groove into Alternative Reggae, or an R&B stomp into a Pop Ballad! You left out "turn a Rick James naked-funk jam into a Britney Spears jail bait pop fest!" Now, I may be incurably old school, but why would anyone want to do these things?
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 08:45
	quote: Originally posted by Mal DuFunq: Retro Funk, eh? Good stuff from what I hear, but you just delivered another pet peeve of mine: OK Mal...I give up....please stop....UNCLE!! I promise not to ever recommend anything to you again that breaks the $30 mark....even in jest.... You're one tough customer! At least now I know where you're coming from. (Seriously though, if you had any idea of what goes into producing our products, you might think a bit differently) spectrum
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 24th March 2002 12:12
	quote: Originally posted by Mal DuFunq: Now Spectrum, as per our last discussion you seem like a good guy (or at least a good salesman), and I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but my god do you have to plug your plug-in every single post??? Have you not realized that it is people like me that are plugging Spectrum? Read these threads before you jump to such conclusions... Anyways back on topic, I suggested this because it could very well be the best pad machine What Spectrum talked about the variety of synthesis methods used in Atmosphere kind of applies to Sonic Synth's pads. Sonic's pads are all sample-based, and they come in all shapes and sizes. Some are mixed in with real world sounds like wine glasses and stuff. The fact that the samples are fairly uncompressed in size makes them, "breathe" more. Kvr user Rabid noted that when he first got sonic synth, it was much more convenient for him to call up a sonic synth pad than it was for him to make one in Tassman(which btw is supposed to be really for pads too)... But the sonic pads are so high quality that they saved him the programming time Anyone using Chronox for pads? What's Pentagon like for pads?
prophet	Posted: 24th March 2002 15:45
	who makes sonic synth? anyone got a link?
deWaverley	Posted: 24th March 2002 16:02
	Mmmmm...yes I've forgotten.. who was it again?
MArmstrong	Posted: 24th March 2002 18:08
	Poor Spectrum, Always getting picked on for telling us how wonderful his software. (Oh, and I haven't forgotten that he didn't start it this time) I am sure that we will all be amazed when we finally get to hear some of us using Spectrum's product. As for pads, I really have to get back on to my own soapbox and recommend VAZ2001. The flexibility of this thing continues to amaze me. (And I am not, in anyway associated with STL) It is just a program that I really love. Another nice trick for some interesting Bowiesque style pads is to double Crazy Diamond and Cheeze Machine together, but be careful, pitch the Crazy Diamond part too high and you will get some really abnoxious artifacts. Michael (should I change my user name to VAZArmstrong? )
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 24th March 2002 18:21
	Hi Prophet, silly me for not posting the Sonic Synth link... I happen to breathe Sonic Synth. It has become the heart and soul of all my compositions. Not only will you find unbelievable pads, but just about every other category of sound has been well documented in that package. It costs $250(soon to go up to $300?), and there might be some promotion on right now... contact dave@sonicreality.com to get the skinny. If you have more general questions, drop by our forum here at kvr, or post it in the Instruments forum since it is a vsti Sonic Synth Website Sonic Synth forum at KvR [ 24 March 2002, 21:23: Message edited by: mr. tunes ]
Mal DuFunq	Posted: 24th March 2002 19:04
	Mr. Tunes muttered: quote: Have you not realized that it is people like me that are plugging Spectrum? Congratulations. You managed to be both awkward and ambiguous in one sentence. Spectrum doesn't need you "plugging" him (geez, what a scary image that conjurs), he does the job quite satisfactorily himself. My reference was in reaction to that very thing: Spectrum entering a general "What's the best" thread yet again hawking his own wares with his naturally unbiased recommendation. Mr Tunes, you obviously have a short attention span so I'll wrap this up quickly. Where I was wrong was accusing Spectrum of plugging incessantly at every turn, in every post. Now if YOU had been reading these posts you would have also noticed that, after reading a bit more and seeing some Spectrum posts that did NOT push a product that hasn't been rerleased yet, I admitted my error in this area. Is that clear enough for you my north of the Yankee line friend? But one of many possible repsonses, Mal
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 24th March 2002 19:35
	Okay Mal, I'm sorry. You win. Game Over.
Squids	Posted: 24th March 2002 19:43
	quote: Originally posted by deWaverley: Mmmmm...yes I've forgotten.. who was it again?
Big Tick	Posted: 24th March 2002 19:45
	OK guys, My turn to plug too: take Cheeze Machine into Makunouchi Bento, and you'll get quite interesting pads.... And no, these two don't break the 30$ mark :-) 'Tick
Mal DuFunq	Posted: 24th March 2002 19:53
	Mr.Spectrum said quote: You're one tough customer! Shouldn't we all be? Let's face it, reckless, indiscriminate consumers make life worse on both sides of the producer/buyer table, particularly on the buyer. and then he said: quote: (Seriously though, if you had any idea of what goes into producing our products, you might think a bit differently) Oh man, you keep tweaking my buttons (figuratively of course). Mr. Spectrum, with all due respect, I, as a consumer, do not a care a canary's whistle about how much time, effort, sweat or blood you or any other producer or manufacturer put into a product. I have no interest whatsoever in any marketing or distribution problems that may have been encountered. I look with an uninterested eye at any missed deadlines or false starts in the product development cycle. All I am concerned with is the quality of the end product, my need for what said product offers and its price which are the only factors in my assessment of its value and my decision whether or not to purchase. Let me give an example. I once read an article by a very tired, bitter middle aged man who worked the collectibles convention circuit. He decried the fact that people would question his prices and remind him that the kid two tables down had the same items for 10%-20 cheaper. He then proceeded, in the most blatant case of self-serving rationalizing that I've ever seen, to state that since he was a fortyish man with a family that his time was more valuable than the teenager's and therefore the time he put in setting up, sorting his goods and the like justified his higher prices. His position could be attacked on a number of fronts, with arrogance being a good start, but my initial response to him would be:WHO THE HELL CARES? That's not MY problem! Since his product is identical to Beavis' down the aisle from him, we should and will seek the best value in our purchase which leaves ol' Andy Rooney short on sales but long on bitterness. Any other approach would be reckless and indiscriminate as I mentioned above. Mr. Spectrum, I have no doubt that you put out a high quality product, I've been aware of Spectrasonics since the CD audio days, and I appreciate you being here and entertaining questions from a gadfly like me. However, please don't ask anyone to cry along with you just because you get misty eyed over thinking about your product development cycle overruns, it just doesn't become you. But one forceful opinion, Mal
relayer2001	Posted: 24th March 2002 19:54
	Spectrum, I'm sure that Atmosphere is a great synth but at $399 it's beyond my price range for a VSTi. If you take the currency exchange rate into account, it would cost me about $800 Australian dollars and I'd rather spend that kind of money on hardware. For pads, I tend to use either my K5000, K2000, MS2000, Matrix 1000 or Spectrum Synth. I find that VSTis for pads take up too much RAM on my system - what with other VSTis going. That's my 2 cents worth. relayer2001
spectrum	Posted: 24th March 2002 20:46
	quote: Originally posted by Mal DuFunq: However, please don't ask anyone to cry along with you just because you get misty eyed over thinking about your product development cycle overruns, it just doesn't become you. But one forceful opinion, Mal Mal...while I understand your point, and agree that it is certainly valid from a customer's point of view, I really don't appreciate being talked to in such a harsh way by you. I thought the point of this forum was an open, two-way discussion between fellow consumers and developers. There are obviously different points of view, and that's cool....but the way you communicate, the message I keep getting from you is to SHUT UP and not say anything about our products or what goes into making them. You've got the wrong idea about me.....I'm not some "salesman" (I hate them as much as you do), I'm a musician and a developer that is interested in communicating with end-users about what our upcoming products are and am willing to talk a little about our development process and some of the behind the scenes stuff. I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy! I've tried to be friendly in my responses to you, but in return you keep coming back at me in real forceful tones. I think it would be justified if I was being a jerk, but I've really tried to be cool in explaining things from my perpective. I really LIKE to hear different perpectives, even intense ones and even if they aren't things that my company is able to accomodate (like $30 CDs or cheap Virtual Instruments, which other companies can do very well, but we can't do). When I try to explain how our stuff is different or that there's quite a bit more to our products, and why it costs what it does, you instantly say that I have no right to say it, or you accuse me of "crying" which is silly (our products are the best selling ones in the industry, your example of the bitter old man was not relevant since it was about someone who failed because his stuff wasn't better than the competition. Spectrasonics rep for quality is very well-known). This makes it hard to communicate with you. All I'm asking for is a little respect, which everyone here should be entitled to...developer and user alike. Peace spectrum
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 25th March 2002 00:00
	quote: Originally posted by relayer2001: If you take the currency exchange rate into account, it would cost me about $800 Australian dollars and I'd rather spend that kind of money on hardware. It was mentioned in the Best Bassline vsti thread by Spectrum that countries like Australia are getting reconsidered prices for the Spectrasonics line since it is a horrible exchange rate
kelly	Posted: 25th March 2002 00:27
	If you think Australia is bad, try New Zealand, it is worse still!
David Abraham	Posted: 25th March 2002 00:44
	quote: Originally posted by spectrum: I'm a musician and a developer that is interested in communicating with end-users about what our upcoming products are and am willing to talk a little about our development process and some of the behind the scenes stuff. I certainly appreciate this, but I can see how it would be a turn-off for some. I think things will flow much more smoothly once your MP3 demos are up, because no doubt they will be of the highest quality, and that's really all that matters to me. Relative to what I've had to spend over the years on synth hardware your prices are still well within the range of "steal" for me. There are VSTi companies that suit everyone, but it seems companies like NI, Edirol and hopefully Spectrasonics (what's up with DXi?) are approaching virtual instruments in a way that really suits me -david abraham [ 25 March 2002, 03:48: Message edited by: David Abraham Fenton ]
Mr. Tunes	Posted: 25th March 2002 00:46
	hey vampyr, i'm sure it's really bad down in Oceania, but here and Canada we have a really bad exchange rate, and since we're so close to the U.S. we will not qualify for the Spectrasonics re-pricing... now that's frustrating Geography sucks
dusted william	Posted: 25th March 2002 01:00
	[ 25 March 2002, 04:29: Message edited by: dusted william ]
Squids	Posted: 25th March 2002 03:54
	quote: Originally posted by dusted william: [QB][/QB] What did Dusted say? Well, my 2cents... The exchange rate issues are a true bummer. That makes it so much worse that it costs anyone more than it does in relative dollars in the original country of manufacture. BTW, I almost got to work in New Zealand for a while and Sydney. Never been there but hear it's beautiful... Oh yeah, pads. Well, first, for those that don't know me here (don't laugh, guys!) I am from the sound company, Sonic Reality. Just so you know I am going to talk about my products for a second. Okay, Sonic Synth was mentioned on this thread as being good for pads. There are different types of pads. The kind of pads that Sonic Synth has are actually rather unique in a VSTi. The reason for this is because it is one of the only VSTi's that has elements of analog and digital synths layered with real sampled chimes,wine glasses, human voices, orchestral strings etc. but ALSO comes with programmed built in effects! This is because we used the Sampletank engine, which happens to be one of the only licensed engines that DOES have built in effects. (Kevvvv, go away for a sec- love you man but sshhhhh for this one, k? ) Some of my favorite pads in hardware synths like the D50, JV's, Triton, EX5 etc. have been great in no small part due to them being run through choruses, delays and reverb. Dreamy pads, ethereal pads, moody pads have so much motion (and emotion) when run through these efffects. Sure, you can take any VSTi and run it through your own VST effect plug-ins, I know. But, having it integrated is nice and the effect becomes part of the patch. This is what 90% of the most popular hardware synths EVER have done. So, if you like THOSE kind of pads that combine analog, digital, acoustic sampled elements WITH effects that are in realtime, then you might want to check out Sonic Synth. The price is not too out of reach. Plus, we plan to release some Pad expansionROMS which are also VSTi's on their own (they come with their own Sampletank LE) and those are under $80. so... your VFM factor is pretty good there too. They are not subpar to ANYTHING in terms of quality but there are plenty of users right here on KVR that can back that up if you don't want to hear it from the guy who made the thing. Maybe me mentioning this will bring someone looking for these pads closer to finding them. They're certainly worth checking out I hope. You can download many examples of the pads in Sonic Synth right here: www.sonicreality.com/sonicsynthmore.html I think the idea of a "best" of anything is going to lead to debate so... I am not saying this is the BEST VSTi for pads but it is great for certain KINDS of pads and it can do things sonically that I know no other VSTi's currently do. [ 25 March 2002, 07:01: Message edited by: Squids ]
Caleb	Posted: 25th March 2002 04:18
	quote: Originally posted by Big Tick: OK guys, My turn to plug too: take Cheeze Machine into Makunouchi Bento, and you'll get quite interesting pads.... And no, these two don't break the 30$ mark :-) 'Tick Hey BT - that sounds like an interesting idea. I downloaded MaBento, because .... well you made it, but I had no luck making it do anything interesting. Maybe I am completely retarded from a sound design perspective. For pads there are so many interesting things you can do with effects even with the simplest pad machine. Make several tracks of the same sound apply different effects to each including filtering, eq, flanging and then mix the signal back together and then attempt to loop the result for sampling. Good luck with the looping by the way. :-) Some of the most amazing pad sounds I've heard have been a sample. Anyway - wavetable synthesisers a la Orion's Wavedream should do wonderful, evolving pad sounds and Lin Plug's Delta seems to have been made primarily for the pad sounds it can produce. Any dual or triple oscillator synth with a fairly complicated modulation matrix should be pretty impressive with pads. Caleb
crimsonwarlock	Posted: 25th March 2002 05:04
	quote: Anyway - wavetable synthesisers a la Orion's Wavedream should do wonderful Wait till you've heard the new Ultran in Orion Platinum.... it uses soundfonts as wavetables... jummy You can cycle through the soundfont layers, make jumps, blend sounds..... [ 25 March 2002, 08:06: Message edited by: crimsonwarlock ]
Caleb	Posted: 25th March 2002 07:29
	Yes, Ultran. I think it will be the primary reason for me upgrading to Orion Platinum. If I thought they'd release it as a separate VSTi I might be tempted not to upgrade, but as it is..... sigh Life's tough. Caleb
deWaverley	Posted: 25th March 2002 14:09
	At the risk of prodding Mal du Funk (no relation ) back into action, I would just like to (belatedly) point out that your 'red-in-tooth-and-claw' free-market argument is not as relevant in this case as in everyday commodities. The difference here is that Spectrum, Squids, and their like actually LOVE doing what they do. Sure they've got to bring in some cash to fund themselves, colleagues, and future development...but I know that their principal motivation is that they've spent their whole lives playing with musical toys (like all of us ), and are now able to put out the results of their work for us to use as well - at prices that even five years ago would have seemed surreally cheap. (I don't know how old you are, but I had to buy synths that would cost in today's money about $10,000. Nowadays an equivalent synth comes free on a magazine cover!) I understand that it is on-the-edge-of-uncomfortable sometimes when the developer himself glows with pride about his own baby, but I think you are slightly missing that there is a kind of self-aware slight tongue-in-cheek-ness about the whole thing. Regulars (of which I am apparently not one - cheers Ben..(btw B.E.N. = Backup Everything NOW!! )) automatically make allowances when a developer is gushing proudly about their new creation... BUT...it is not "Nigel from Marketing" who is gushing...it's the guy who was working away and first heard such-and-such a preset at 3 in the morning and jumped about his studio shouting "Yeeeeeeeeehaaa - that is is just the f**king business!" (or the equiv. in American) Speaking for myself (and I know many others), I love having these guys here and hearing them rush in from their workbenches with their latest ideas and enthusiasms. For me it is maybe the main thing which makes this site tower over any other. deW [ 25 March 2002, 17:14: Message edited by: deWaverley ]
earthJoker	Posted: 25th March 2002 14:45
	I am very happy with the cheese machine...and I also use the Junglist for spacy pads. I now most of you will say the Junglist isn't good for pads but IMO he is very good for special pads. Somhow the Junglist has a very cool way to make strange melodies. The notes go very good into eachother. The prize isn't bad and you get some nice bass out of it too. (this also works for pads...play them hight and suddently play it low...sounds like WOOOOOMMM)
David Abraham	Posted: 25th March 2002 21:55
	quote: Originally posted by Caleb Blake: Some of the most amazing pad sounds I've heard have been a sample. I bought the little known "Digital Boy" AKAI library from ILIO last year and the pad sounds still never fail to inspire me. I look forward to loading these up and tweaking/layering them in Kontakt when it ships -david abraham
Caleb	Posted: 25th March 2002 22:52
	Yeah CheezeMachine is excellent for pad sounds. The real advantage of this machine is that although you may sacrifice flexibility somewhat - you can produce great pads with a minimum of fuss. Definitely worth owning. Caleb

Forum topics in the archive are read only. New posts should be made in the main KVR Forums.

Disclaimer:
All communications made available as part of this forum and any opinions, advice, statements, views or other information expressed in this forum are solely provided by, and the responsibility of, the person posting such communication and not of kvraudio.com (unless kvraudio.com is specifically identified as the author of the communication).

User:	Pass: