KVR: Forum Archive - ABSYNTH "PC" is now officially available

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Author	Topic: ABSYNTH "PC" is now officially available
Raven	Posted: 25th April 2002 10:10
	From NI's homepage quote: The wait is over: ABSYNTH is now officially available for Windows. A year ago the release of ABSYNTH for Macintosh amazed even the most demanding users and industry reviewers with its 6 oscillators per voice, 68-breakpoint envelopes, freely drawable waveforms, semi-modular architecture, and incredible sonic range. Now all the features found in the Mac version are available for PC. Ready to use as VSTi, DXi, or standalone. With this much flexibility, the possibilities are nearly endless
SDZH	Posted: 25th April 2002 10:38
	All well and good, but there appears to be no demo (?!) Am I too thick-headed to navigate the NI site or is this actually the case ? Now all we gotta do is get METASYNTH ported to PC and we (PC users, that is) are laughing... TnB
afx23	Posted: 25th April 2002 10:46
	quote: Originally posted by TitsNbuMs: All well and good, but there appears to be no demo (?!) Am I too thick-headed to navigate the NI site or is this actually the case ? Now all we gotta do is get METASYNTH ported to PC and we (PC users, that is) are laughing... TnB hmmmmm Metasynth .... how about it NI??
M_W_N_P	Posted: 25th April 2002 10:51
	quote: Originally posted by TitsNbuMs: All well and good, but there appears to be no demo (?!) Coming soon, I believe.
Raven	Posted: 25th April 2002 11:16
	quote: All well and good, but there appears to be no demo (?!) Absynth PC Demo will be up in about two weeks
SDZH	Posted: 25th April 2002 11:39
	Oh, well. I guess we've waited this long - a couple of weeks more ain't gonna hurt (much... ) TnB
M_W_N_P	Posted: 25th April 2002 12:12
	quote: Originally posted by TitsNbuMs: Oh, well. I guess we've waited this long - a couple of weeks more ain't gonna hurt (much... ) TnB If you're anything like me, you will be wanting to order the real thing within about ten minutes of downloading the demo...
no3y3h4nd	Posted: 25th April 2002 16:15
	quote: Originally posted by Raven: quote: All well and good, but there appears to be no demo (?!) Absynth PC Demo will be up in about two weeks bah ,, we want it now dammit ....
Raven	Posted: 25th April 2002 16:50
	Hey 2 weeks is better than 2 months
afx23	Posted: 25th April 2002 16:53
	quote: Originally posted by Raven: Hey 2 weeks is better than 2 months bah the longer they wait , the more people will get the PDX version to "demo" then forget to buy it... c'mon NI make an effort i dont know how much longer i can resist
no3y3h4nd	Posted: 25th April 2002 17:00
	quote: Originally posted by afx23: quote: Originally posted by Raven: Hey 2 weeks is better than 2 months bah the longer they wait , the more people will get the PDX version to "demo" then forget to buy it... c'mon NI make an effort i dont know how much longer i can resist the pdx version is mac aint it .. #me confused#
afx23	Posted: 25th April 2002 17:05
	nonnono: pdx would be the criminal release
djstormrider	Posted: 25th April 2002 18:12
	So, no demo yet ;-( It hurts me to wait 2 weeks...
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 02:44
	Some words to the PC users waiting for ABSYNTH: (I use absynth on Mac - not so very often). Absynth is a very good "sound texturizer" and it can makes really interesting sounds sometimes. But it is definitively NOT the ultimate "definition of sound". 1. Absynth is the king of ALIASING. (ok ok, hand drawen Waves with spectral adjustment - but this results in a very high amount of artefarcts and aliasing!!!) 2. Absynth is the king of mouse clicking! (it is really not a specialist in intuitive use - endless switching between external sound engine and the plugin.) 3. Abysnth is not very close implemented to the VST intrface. ( you will probably be not very enthusiastic about this, because there are some problems inside a VST host (Absynths external sound engine).) Question: why to f**k they needed one year to port this to the PC platform, and why this stupid external sound engine not implemented to the VST plugin??? So I cannot understand this Absynth hysteria and the exorbitant price of this software. [ 26 April 2002, 05:57: Message edited by: blacky ]
dusted william	Posted: 26th April 2002 02:59
	quote: Abysnth is not very close implemented to the VST intrface. I'm glad someone else is pointing this out. When I messed around with it on a mac it seemed very akward. I am not one that is lining up for this synth. It does sound good, but I think I need to take a VSTi break for a while. dw
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 03:46
	yeah! Sometimes I feel lost in this very VSi jungle... I spend so much time, learning to learn to fiddle with new VSi's, that I hardly come to be "creative". I don't know if it's just me or the reason's to be found in the huge amount of synths/fx available... I appreciate _ALL_ the work and _EVERY_ efforts of _ALL_ the smart VSi/fx coders out there (and there are many(!) ), don't get me wrong! I decided to concentrate more on things I really can bring to value to me. And I'm glad that there somehow is a trend towards "less complex" and "easy to use, i.e. fast workflow" specialized plugs with, for example, Spectrasonics' instruments or BitshiftAudios' PhatmaticPro. As much as I'm verry happy about the possibilities today, that Infinity, Reaktor and the like offer, the less I'm "getting to the point"... Usually, complex programs are fiddly to control, not in itself alone, but concerning integration into a project, too, with way to much clicks and mouse marathons. I still can't understand why, with todays computing performance in mind, we are controlling "one-dimensional" parameters (knobs etc.) with a "two-dimensional" input device, in an "anlog style", i.e. circling round a knob, oh boy? Can we please realise, that we have more possibilities offered, today? Concerning Absynth: The great the concept and the idea is, I "don't believe the hype" anymore, because "workflow" is the word, to me at least. What's more: I've made my experience with NI and its' software since its very early days with Generator V1.xxx I was a "believer". But their qualitiy _and_ support simply changed from "outstanding" to "disastreous". So, concerning workflow, quality and support, Absynth is a no no to me, as much as I like it's results, judging from the demo mp3's... TabSel
pornstar	Posted: 26th April 2002 04:22
	NI's quality changed from outstanding to disastrous? Let's see, Reaktor 3, FM7, Absynth, Battery, Spektral Delay...are you high? There quality is so much higher than almost anyone else it ludicrous to even make a comment like that. Other than RGC Audio there's noone even close to the same quality. I agree though that the learning curves cost more time than they should and stop creativity in it's tracks. Spectrasonics may be up to the task of making equally outstanding vst's but we'll have to wait and see.
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 04:33
	Sorry to mislead: with "quality" I never ever meant "sound quality". There's little even coming close to NI products' sound quality!!! I rather meant software/support (i.e. bugfixing etc.) quality! Unfortunately, their products' output isn't limited to presets but is a result of working with the product, and not with the product alone but in a musical context and environment. And that's, where their software's simply, err, difficult. They developed quite interesting concepts of making GUIs modular and the like, but these concepts are neither very well/stable implemented, nor do they enhance workflow, the opposite is true... You'll notice this, too, when working with the product, not only listening to it... You might check yahoo groups on, for example Spectral Delay. Read some of the first posts mentioning bugs (look at its posting date). Then, fast forward and you'll notice that nearly nothing changed since today - poor MAC users, I'd say. NI confirmed these issues way back then...But nothing happened. That's not quality, but then, SpectralDelays' sound is outstanding (if it produces some...). The groups' posts left me _not_ buying SpectralDelay, I am very much interested in its sound offering, though...) TabSel [ 26 April 2002, 07:41: Message edited by: TabSel ]
SDZH	Posted: 26th April 2002 07:06
	Personally, I'm not sure I agree with the workflow discussion above. I enjoy producing (or at least trying to produce) fresh, never b4 heard sounds for my tracks. If it takes a bit longer to make something to my satisfaction because the tool is fiddly or not initially easy, then so be it. This is the case with a lot of the Reaktor Ensembles I now use all the time. It took a while to get into them, but now I know where I am, I'm better placed to use them. I appreciate that there are those who just surf the presets and use what they find, and that's fine as long as they're happy. Like a lot of people in this forum, I'm just after a more unique sound. Regarding the veritable sea of VSTi and VST FX, I totally agree. It's kind of a double edged sword - fantastic that so many developers out there are prepared to give us goodies for free, but it does get in the way of the workflow "Ooh, great another synth, I'll just download it and play about a bit to see how she sounds..." Two hours later, one is no further down the line on the current masterpiece, but has discovered that the synth/FX will be of no use in future. I once read (in CM) that it's better to know ones equipment inside out and how to manipulate it to obtain the desired effect or sound than it is to have a bucket load of stuff that you can't operate. Regarding NI not being helpful. I had a problem with Reaktor a while back (won't bore with details). Can only say that they were most helpful. And lastly....I have to admit to having been dragged into the Absynth hype. I am probably excited about it because of the "Grass is greener" sentiment - MAC users have had it for some time, PC users ain't . In that time, I've not heard a bad thing about the synth. So naturally my curiosity has been peeked (sic). I'll download the demo (in another 2 weeks ) and see whether the hype is justified. Then I may dust down the credit card Caffeine fuelled rant over------back to work ! Just my threpencehapenny's worth TnB
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 07:36
	Actually, this is, what I'll do, concerning Absynth and any other products I find attractive to me: wait until the (hype) dust has settled, wait for initial buyers' reports and research as much as I can about handling, bugs, features etc. _before_ checking out demos, if available, or the real thing in stores or whatever and _then_ judge for myself before placing my order. That's why I'm deviling and fire questions at Eric (spectrum) on stylus, deviling and fire questions at Art (bitshift) on PhatmaticPro (which really is a great pleassure, at least to me ) and so forth...(you can judge on their responsiveness, too!) And that's why I love Ben@KvR so much: to provide a communications platform, where sooo much wise, helpful, kind, knowledgeable, freaky, creative people lurk around!!! BTW, thank you all! TabSel
JohnVulich	Posted: 26th April 2002 10:20
	Link to the Music on my "Little Keyboard" JV
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 10:30
	better would be to provide a General Midi file for this....
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 10:40
	Back to topic: I think Absynth will not change too much for you PC users (like some anounces calim and you probably expect). For me there is the following top list of softsynths: very best: NI FM7 .. .. (long nothing) very good: Waldorf Attack very good: ES2 (Logic only) .. .. good: Waldorf PPG Wave good: Absynth good: Rebirth ... [ 26 April 2002, 15:46: Message edited by: blacky ]
JohnVulich	Posted: 26th April 2002 10:46
	Hmmm, Actually, I just took the animation apart and figured out what it's really playing... Little Keyboard Tune JV [ 26 April 2002, 13:48: Message edited by: John Vulich ]
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 11:11
	quote: Originally posted by John Vulich: Hmmm, Actually, I just took the animation apart and figured out what it's really playing... What a synthesizer is this?
Tronam	Posted: 26th April 2002 11:38
	Chopsticks? Nahh... Actually, it looks like a snippet of a pretty typical blues riff. The left hand fifth to major sixth vamp with the minor pentatonic right hand section going down. I'm not sure if John's monophonic synth really captured that very well -Tronam [ 26 April 2002, 14:45: Message edited by: Tronam ]
MB	Posted: 26th April 2002 12:02
	Blacky, what is that Infection B synth you mentioned?
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 12:45
	OOOh sh*t. I have read through the beta test conditions even still time. I wouldn't have been allowed to write this. The Project is top secret. I wouldn't like to lose my rights as a beta tester. I will edit it and delete it. Please forget it, please. (You have never heard something from this!)
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 26th April 2002 14:01
	quote: Originally posted by TabSel: You might check yahoo groups on, for example Spectral Delay. Read some of the first posts mentioning bugs (look at its posting date). Then, fast forward and you'll notice that nearly nothing changed since today - poor MAC users, I'd say. NI confirmed these issues way back then...But nothing happened. Did you recognize that we have released Spektral Delay 1.5? And when yes: Do you really purport that nothing happend with this update? And please can you point to the big problems in the FM7, or latest before Kontakt and Absynth? Where is there the "disastreous" quality? Bye, Steffen [ 26 April 2002, 17:01: Message edited by: Steffen Fuerst ]
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 26th April 2002 14:13
	quote: Originally posted by blacky: This is very audible: Take the last NI VSTi project (FM7) and then the Absynth. In my opinion the FM7 has a significant BETTER Sound quality. even on oscillator plain! But this is NI's only stategy: fast buy all good things on the market and make it its own. Strange, our only stategy is to buy all good things but we make better things on our own? And of course we try to get good developers, whats wrong with that? quote: We users have enought of the endless anouncing of the (wanabe) fact "how good they are" and we have enougth of the enndless waiting to the software, they promise along long time before it is finally available... When people asked us about a PC-Version and we said yes, was this wrong? Should we lie? The first date we said about a Absynth PC Release was at the NAMM, the date was March 2002 and we needed a month longer. I think this is really good when i compair it the announcments from other companies. Bye, Steffen
Tarkus	Posted: 26th April 2002 14:32
	JV, your little keyboard is cool, and cute
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 15:10
	quote: Did you recognize that we have released Spektral Delay 1.5? And when yes: Do you really purport that nothing happend with this update? yes, I am aware. How long did it take you to get 1.5 out? How many users have had massive problems with very well known and confirmed issues, were disatisfied and were not able at all to use it (which wasn't always their fault, BTW)? Believe me, I was happy and full of hope, thinking that v1.5 will do it for me. Now, have a look at your very own forum and count again. I am a professional programmer, too, not windows/mac/c++ though, but I am aware of the fact that bugs aren't avoidable completely. But it makes a difference on how to adress them, communicate it...NI failed, ask others, look into your forum... It's not SD alone. I've got my very own experience with a product I actually own : Reaktor. It did take more than half a year after I (and I was not the first, as I got to know) experienced, that no PolyAftertouch-Messages are received. I clearly explained it, and I got more than 4 mails, that said: "wait a little, it's on the way!" On which way was it then? Meanwhile Kontakt was announced. What a gret message for all disapointed NI customers that suffer from similar issues (and there still are plenty!) quote: And please can you point to the big problems in the FM7, or latest before Kontakt and Absynth? I never mentioned FM7, did I? I am not very interested in it, so forgive me when I'm not up to date on issues on FM7... quote: Where is there the "disastreous" quality? I suggest not asking me alone! Look into the forums, in your very own for example. What about a poll on your website: "Dear customers, are you satisfied?" Please don't get me wrong. I like NI's products, intentions, inventions very very much. But I think NI's lost its initial focus, as many fast growing companies do, I guess: you are earning money with loyal and satisfied customers. So concentrate on this at least as much as on inventing great new products! Communicate! TabSel
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 26th April 2002 16:13
	quote: Originally posted by TabSel: Believe me, I was happy and full of hope, thinking that v1.5 will do it for me. What are your actual problems with Spektral 1.5? quote: Now, have a look at your very own forum and count again. I do, if you read the forum you should recognize my name often enough there. In our SD-Forum is only one person, how have problems with SD 1.5 that we cant explain, all other problems are caused because the people didnt update the plugin correct. And we have many responces from external people, that have a lot of problems with the first release which are solved now. quote: It's not SD alone. I've got my very own experience with a product I actually own : Reaktor. Meanwhile Kontakt was announced. What a gret message for all disapointed NI customers that suffer from similar issues (and there still are plenty!) I know your posting to this topic in an older thread here at kvr and ithink i answered to it (maybe not, i can remember that i wrote once a long answer and couldnt send it to kvr without losing it before). When not a short summary: The Kontakt Development Team has nothing to do with the Reaktor Development Team. And BTW: I use also Reaktor since the Generator (0.9 and i think Reaktor 3.05/3.06 is one of the most stabil ones, and i know that many people share this opinion. quote: I never mentioned FM7, did I? I am not very interested in it, so forgive me when I'm not up to date on issues on FM7... You wrote "But their (NI) qualitiy _and_ support simply changed from 'outstanding' to 'disastreous'." This give the impression, that all our products are disastreous, also the FM7. quote: I suggest not asking me alone! Look into the forums, in your very own for example. What to you think why i here? And i read every Yahoo-Groups List about our Products, the Sonar newsgroups (because i'm the DXi-Developer)...And much better, i make music with our products, using Reaktor live on a Powerbook (and much more). Believe me, i know the quality of our Products and so i know why i get angry when i read postings like yours who conclude from some problems he have with one of our products (sure, Reaktor is far from being perfect) to all of our others. Bye, Steffen [ 26 April 2002, 20:44: Message edited by: Steffen Fuerst ]
David Abraham	Posted: 26th April 2002 16:31
	quote: Originally posted by TabSel: [QUOTE]But I think NI's lost its initial focus, as many fast growing companies do, I guess: you are earning money with loyal and satisfied customers. So concentrate on this at least as much as on inventing great new products! Communicate! TabSel what was the original focus? The current focus (FM7,B4,Kontakt,ABSynth etc) certainly works for me. I think Reaktor is an amazing piece of technology but it doesn't suit my particular way of working...at least not yet, I'll have to grow into it. -david abraham [ 26 April 2002, 19:32: Message edited by: David Abraham Fenton ]
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 16:51
	beware: my very own opinion: In the very beginning, you have an idea that you are soo keen on making real and public, to see what others think about it. You are so enthusiastic, that you hear very closely to what others say, because it's your product and you want your product to be best. You somehow live "your" product. It's perfectly clear that you have to eat and drink, earn money. So you are pretty happy to sell some products, thus you can make a living. But what counts is your product, and thus implicity your customers. With companies neverending wish to grow and be the best, this original "spirit" somehow turns 180 degree. Being the best isn't offering the best product, but growing the most, having the best reputation (marketing), the largest user base and so forth. You loose your focus... That's what I meant. What is it that I've got the feeling that you all more or less attack me. Would you like to convince me, that there are no bugs in my very own Reaktor? Would you like to convince me that there's no room left for improvement, progress? You are all happy with what you got? No ideas, what and how things could be made better (working 100% first, that is ) TabSel [ 26 April 2002, 19:56: Message edited by: TabSel ]
David Abraham	Posted: 26th April 2002 17:18
	quote: Originally posted by TabSel: What is it that I've got the feeling that you all more or less attack me. Would you like to convince me, that there are no bugs in my very own Reaktor? Would you like to convince me that there's no room left for improvement, progress? You are all happy with what you got? No ideas, what and how things could be made better (working 100% first, that is ) TabSel not at all, improvements are needed across the board in all products. At the same time sometimes it's easier to focus on particular issues rather than slamming a company in a global way (which I've done in the recent past too ). Growth and marketing execution are important things in keeping companies around so that they can deliver what we need. Some of best technology doesn't see the light of day because the software company didn't have the capacity to execute well on a business or competetive level. The biggest benefit of the "new" MI industry as I see it is this great relationship we can foster with the actual developers, and then lo and behold we find out that they are real people with passion for their work, jobs, family, bills, music aspirations etc...so that certainly affects the way I complain or make my requests known these days... -david abraham
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 26th April 2002 17:41
	About attacking: I already wrote, that Reaktor is far from being perfect. And when you wrote that our Product Quality is (and that implies my work) disastreous: This is not a attack?
blabbermouth	Posted: 26th April 2002 17:48
	There is always room for improvement, but Reaktor 3 has had at least two updates and I don't know where your issues are with it but it's one of the most stable programs I own and I've never had any major issues with it. Much more than Infinity which crashes constantly and for me Reaktor is much easier to use. Everybody has a right to their opinion, so if you don't like Reaktor 3 that's okay. Personally for me it is my favorite. Most software has bugs, for example, everyone on this site seems to love the Linplug stuff and yet every time I try their demos it crashes my system (both old and new systems actually). It's happened to me with Delta and Delta 3 yet most people seem wildly happy with the product and the gentleman is always on this site with help if people need it and I feel no need to denigrate his products. With NI I had a problem downloading a mac crossgrade and they bent over backwards to accomodate me and make me happy.
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 18:18
	Steffen, my statements never were adressed @ you, your work (which might be outstanding) or any other person that works @ NI, whereas you blame me directly... It's adressed to the company, and its output. You are part of a team I guess, and although everyone in this team might be an excellent developer, there are so many reasons for the outcome in general being worse (not directed to any of NI's product, this stands on its own and on my very own experience as software developer and part of a team, too!). What I hear every working day are complaints about company internal communication, for example. Anyone doing anything another actually is doing and the like, that sooner or later lead to misconception, misdesign, misbehaviour. What's the reason for Reaktor being "reengineered"? It "grew" to wild, I guess, making it hard to spot problems and develope further, yes? What's the reason for Steinberg quitting VST and heading over to SX? It's a good (private) sign of yours, that you are offended based on my statements, which actually was no intention at all, because it shows me that you love what you are doing which I like! However, it's not you, I want a working product from. I am a freelancer. Imagine what would happen, if one of my customers requesting (their right, as they paid for) his accounting software working and not crashing two times a week? And I put him back six times in half a year. I guess I'll loose this customer, my reputation as well as a lot of money...(I never ever thought about putting anyone back on my list, actually that's my reputation...) And yes, Reaktor PC3.05 crashes, reproducible and well known to NI, I guess: simply feedback an event out to an event in...This one's not a great issue then, once you know this, but it happens unintentionally while developing, and is annyoing after a few times. Reaktor does not even launch, if it has been used with ASIO the session before, whereas the ASIO driver isn't present anymore now (that's the case with a laptop/HDSP solution). I have to fiddle with the registry to get it working again using MME. And I understand enough of programming windows/C++/ASIOSDK that I know that this might too easily be catched. There's no reason for anyone to wait half a year. The list can go on, if you like. But this is not the topic. I guess, I am demanding too much this world being a better one? TabSel [ 26 April 2002, 21:22: Message edited by: TabSel ]
bluey	Posted: 26th April 2002 18:30
	"About attacking: I already wrote, that Reaktor is far from being perfect. And when you wrote that our Product Quality is (and that implies my work) disastreous: This is not a attack?" I think this speaks for itself. An NI staffer saying this, far from being perfect ? Shame, this is really bad, you expect people to pay out for your $599 product and you say it is far from perfect. You issue newer products while Reaktor is "far from perfect" while not devoting your full resource to fixing the issues. I think people have a right to be angry. I think you should look in the mirror if you want to be a long term solution with attitudes like this, and also you shouldn't open your mouth here since your boss may not like your open attitude.
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 18:42
	Actually, in the real world, there is no "perfect". IMHO I want everything being improved. That's what gets me going, somehow. And a software can't be perfect, too. At least I will moan about a specific feature missing But we all can try to get closer to being perfect. I'm trying hard to, and I somehow demand this from others, too. Is that this wrong? TabSel [ 26 April 2002, 21:44: Message edited by: TabSel ]
David Abraham	Posted: 26th April 2002 18:45
	quote: Originally posted by bluey: I think you should look in the mirror if you want to be a long term solution with attitudes like this, and also you shouldn't open your mouth here since your boss may not like your open attitude. I like Steffen's attitude. "Far from perfect" is not the same thing as "has no value". There are imperfect things in life that are still quite valuable. -david abraham
JohnVulich	Posted: 26th April 2002 18:58
	quote: Originally posted by Tronam: Chopsticks? Nahh... Actually, it looks like a snippet of a pretty typical blues riff. The left hand fifth to major sixth vamp with the minor pentatonic right hand section going down. I'm not sure if John's monophonic synth really captured that very well -Tronam Errr... how did I miss that? I guess the synth was in mono-mode and I didn't notice. That's what I get for trying to do this stuff at 4:00 AM Anyway here is the "polyphonic" version... Little Keyboard Tune II I'm actually kind of amazed that who ever put this animation together used a real bit of music! JV
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 26th April 2002 19:21
	quote: Originally posted by bluey: I think this speaks for itself. An NI staffer saying this, far from being perfect ? Shame, this is really bad, you expect people to pay out for your $599 product and you say it is far from perfect. You issue newer products while Reaktor is "far from perfect" while not devoting your full resource to fixing the issues. I think people have a right to be angry. Yes, a software that is far from being perfect can be the best audio-software on the market at the same time. Also like i think, that the Sequenzer i use is the best on the market and it's far from being perfekt too. And i really like Tassman, but the Tassman GUI is really crap and much more far away from perfect then Reaktor. Both are missing alot in the User friendliness and both are working on this (AAS at Tassman 3 and we at Reaktor 3.3). When you only see the number and weightiness of bugs i think that Reaktor is okay. quote: I think you should look in the mirror if you want to be a long term solution with attitudes like this, and also you shouldn't open your mouth here since your boss may not like your open attitude. I'm really surprised that you are concerned about what my boss think about my posts here. And i surprised too, that you don't like open words. Next time i will only write that Reaktor is the best and a really perfect and bugfree program. Better? Bye, Steffen
SDZH	Posted: 26th April 2002 19:25
	@friad I'm with Mr Fuerst with this. I think it echoes of perfectionism to say that the product is far from perfect. To me it indicates that he (and NI) are always looking to improve and reach a perfect Reaktor. This doesn't strike me as something negative and Stefan should be applauded for honesty. To release a product and say "There you go, it's perfect and will never need improvement" stinks of arrogance. Having said that. I absolutely ADORE Reaktor and would gladly have its babies (except for the fact that the meat and two veg kind of get in the way...) TnB
M_W_N_P	Posted: 26th April 2002 19:30
	quote: Originally posted by Steffen Fuerst: Yes, a software that is far from being perfect can be the best audio-software on the market at the same time. I agree.
telxo_s	Posted: 26th April 2002 20:02
	quote: I've made my experience with NI and its' software since its very early days with Generator V1.xxx I was a "believer". But their qualitiy _and_ support simply changed from "outstanding" to "disastreous". are you micky from the old reaktor/generator list?
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 20:59
	nope. sorry! why? TabSel (so this thread has really brought us further... , sorry couldn't resist!)
bluebus	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:08
	I'd like to ask a question @ Steffen Fuerst on the initial topic (Absynth, for those who can remember Why is that, that it's required to have the stand-alone Absynth (The "Engine") running in the background when the VST plugin is in use? In an interview with B. Clevinger (Keyboards 08/01, German music mag.) I read that the main reason is, that VST plugs can only open one window. AFAIK this can't be true (think HALion, FM7, Volkszaempler etc.). For most the "Engine" won't propably make any trouble, but there may be problems when running other plugins with their background engines, or if one wants to run an audio editor in the background. So the question is: Are there any plans to change that?
telxo_s	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:10
	TabSel i think you need to get off the drugs. The more complex and flexible the synth is the more there is going to be to learn, the less time there will be for making music. There is no way around this. What are you even complaining about? Your just stating the obvious and saying that you would rather make music than make really different sounds. Cool, there are plenty of synths for you... to the sound designer there are plenty of synths with the flexibility they desire. one downside to VST instruments is its so much easier to be a gear head. You ever see the guys with every hardware synth known to man, even ones that practically do the same exact thing but are just put out by another company? Its so much easier to do that with VST because instead of costing 1500 per synth things are SOOO cheap. if you cant make good music with what you have right now you probly cant make good music at any point in the future no matter what gear you have.
JohnVulich	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:27
	quote: Originally posted by telxo_s: if you cant make good music with what you have right now you probly cant make good music at any point in the future no matter what gear you have. OWWW!!! Be careful! You might cause some collateral damage! JV
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:33
	sorry to have an opinion I'll get off drugs, then... just thought we could discuss a little, how to progress, seems not so, though...
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:37
	Absynth is the one side, NI an completely other. Remenber: Absynth is not developed by NI, only distributed. This is very audible: Take the last NI VSTi project (FM7) and then the Absynth. In my opinion the FM7 has a significant BETTER Sound quality. even on oscillator plain! The thing, that Absynth can very good, is "wash away all sound deficites with alot of effets!". But this is NI's only stategy: fast buy all good things on the market and make it its own. (Think also to about the SyncModular thing...). This are aggressive marketing tactics. Discover the world... But I think NI will get the ticket of their bad marketing very soon. We users have enought of the endless anouncing of the (wanabe) fact "how good they are" and we have enougth of the enndless waiting to the software, they promise along long time before it is finally available... So why users fall in the NI hysteria again and again? I don't know.
JohnVulich	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:47
	Hey blacky are you using a PC, Mac or both? JV
blacky	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:49
	both. ps: what is your little keyboard playing all the times? [ 26 April 2002, 13:01: Message edited by: blacky ]
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 26th April 2002 21:53
	Hi, i dont know how the Volkzaempler works but Halion and FM7 uses only one Window. The VST Specifikation doesnt support multiple Window Applications as a Plugin, you must do some tricks to get this. One solution is to run the Editor as an own Application, like Absynth does. I don't think that this a big disadvantage, and i can promise you, that it's not a problem when other plugins does this too. I don't know details about plans for Absynth because i'm not involved in the Absynth development, but i don't think that they plan to change this. Bye, Steffen
bluey	Posted: 26th April 2002 22:05
	but isnt reaktor running as one application with multiple windows ? maybe it could be like that
TabSel	Posted: 26th April 2002 22:25
	It uses "child" windows within _one_ main window, that's doable. But not more than one main window... BTW Any plans on digging into making Reaktors plug main window resizable? I know that it's doable, and it would be very ergonomic, too, especially with Reaktor! Sorry to interrupt your Absynth thread again Should I open a new thread for Reaktor suggestions, Steffen? Is NI open minded? Do you have time to think about suggestions TabSel [ 27 April 2002, 01:28: Message edited by: TabSel ]
putte	Posted: 26th April 2002 22:29
	John, don´t forget to play your lovely keyboard again. (it´s good for the atmosphere in this thread.. ) putte
realmarco	Posted: 26th April 2002 22:48
	...So..is..reaktor-sessions..on..the..mac..gonna..be.."better" My..dynamo..isn't..perfect...but..it..works Will..NI..address...the..Mac-reaktor..the..situation? (not..a..put-down,a..sincere..question) P.S....is..it..Dr.Syncs..fault?
JohnVulich	Posted: 26th April 2002 23:19
	quote: Originally posted by Tarkus: JV, your little keyboard is cool, and cute Aw, shucks... JV
bluebus	Posted: 26th April 2002 23:46
	Steffen Fürst, thanks for your answer. Regarding the Volkszaempler (the promo copy), if anyone's interested, it does have several windows, they can be open at the same time and moreover are even resizable. On the other hand - and I won't conceal this - this plug taxes CPU and Ram, as if it would run five background engines
Tronam	Posted: 27th April 2002 00:11
	Blacky, I have to fully agree with you on the sound quality of the FM7. It is truly superb and strangely enough, doesn't fatigue my ears like most of the other virtual instruments that I've used. It can be delicate, warm, glassy, edgy, harsh and the user interface is logically laid out and inspiring... I am definitely impressed. Now, if I could only justify the $600 investment to "the powers that be". -Tronam [ 27 April 2002, 05:59: Message edited by: Tronam ]
clowndog	Posted: 27th April 2002 03:37
	US$219 here http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=11178&Category=Softwa re
Tronam	Posted: 27th April 2002 04:01
	quote: Originally posted by pentacloud: US$219 here http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=11178&Category=Softwa re Well, the problem is that I use my PC (laptop) and Mac (desktop) platforms equally, so it's always a dual investment for me. In this case, I guess that would be around $438 which is definitely cheaper than MSRP. Thanks for the link. -Tronam [ 27 April 2002, 07:01: Message edited by: Tronam ]
J_McEnroe	Posted: 27th April 2002 04:09
	Tronam why dont you just buy either a mac laptop or a PC desktop? and if you're linking your systems up why not just use the VSTi on one system or the other? Why do you need it on both?
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 27th April 2002 07:52
	@Tabsel: We already make some research about resizing the Reaktor VST-Window, i cann't promise anything, but i think Reaktor 3.3 will have selectable sizes for the Window. And of course we are open minded for improvment request, but don't be angry if we not implement this features. There are a lot of different direction where you can improve Reaktor and we set priorities to some of them. Maybe you should send them in our Reaktor-Forum. @Realmarco: The Reaktor 3.06 update is a Mac-only update and address the Mac-situation, or not? @Tronam: Good news, in the near future you get the FM7 Mac/PC Version together like the Pro52/B4. And i think if you have already bought one version, you can download the other one then for free then too. But i'm not sure about this, so you better ask support@native-instruments.de @Dorfmeister: I have Windows-Desktops and a Mac-Laptop too. In my Studio i need high performance, live a stable audio-interface without clicks and a low latency, and the integrated audio-port of a powerbook deliver this very well. Bye, Steffen
bajongo	Posted: 27th April 2002 10:35
	Hi freaks, about Reaktor being far from perfect: I am far from perfect. My wife loves me madly. I love Reaktor. About Absynth: I got mine yesterday (PC) and what I heard last nite was VERY cool! I'll check it more in depth later. It's sad that there's no DXi version yet. Steffen?
Steffen Fuerst	Posted: 27th April 2002 11:02
	I think the DXi-version is now finished and will be downloadable soon, but i must ask next monday Jake about the current state.
realmarco	Posted: 27th April 2002 19:00
	Steffen, I just wanted to mention that I love your products. NI to me means quality I purchased Absynth,Dynamo, and Battery(got it today ) something that should be mentionned(especially to newbies ) is: don't believe everything you read ---------------------------------------------------- NI has a very good reputation, although many feel that the more NI gets bigger the less people feel connected to NI...sorta like those mom&Pop store that become faceless corporations. but...will alitle PR & support work + somme freeware it would remedy the situation but that's just my opinion ------------------------------------ As for reaktor, I downloaded the demo awhile back ...I'm gonna wait and see what the reaktor Demo does once it gets updated to the current retail reaktor version. If I had the money i would likely purchase a Pc to run various VSTie(including reaktor) once Cubase gets System-Link Though I am retissent on my pc days(hell)..But I digress(spelling?) I will most likely purchase reaktor-sessions but it will depend on the demo(is there gonna be a demo of reaktor-sessions?) ----------------------------------------------------- Steffen: I'm glad to see that NI is getting into the krv-vst.com community...I think you should keep it up, and have more of a presence here..its doing NI's some good cheers [ 27 April 2002, 22:04: Message edited by: realmarco ]
Rabid	Posted: 28th April 2002 22:42
	quote: Originally posted by Steffen Fuerst: I think the DXi-version is now finished and will be downloadable soon, but i must ask next monday Jake about the current state. I was just about to ask about that. Looking forward to it. Robert

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