I downloaded Absynth, WOW, holy shit... it blew me away with its sounds, and 'editing'. But then i realised it all....

Im never going to get my unique, 'stand out from the crowd' sound with this. Its just someone elses time, someone elese imajination, then put in a nice shiney looking box so we all buy it on our first impressions.
I NEED SOMETHING THAT I CAN BE UNIQUE WITH. Or maybee i havent unlocked the potention of this Absynth synth?. I want to put my own sounds, my own presets, from scratrch, from other sound sources, i dont want to edit other peaples material, i am not a remixer, i am myself unique. I NEED ADVICE.

Of course i dont like to be a complete freak, like REAKTOR editing style, i am human. For example, i have a korg X5, i love what that does all the presets can be edited by other sounds. So it has about 200 presets that can each all be completed reformed in about 400 ways (and it has 2 oscilators, so that 400 x 2). But its an old keybourd, that was then and this is now. HOW CAN I BE UNIQUE. (i may get replies like buy hardware keybourds, but i am starting off if in this game, i need to stay on budjet. Also i need to stay clean (eg. stuff cracked, illegal) i dont want to get in to all that. so basically this is the question to y'all

HOW CAN I BE UNIQUE, ON A BUDJET, GET MY OWN SOUND, STAND OUT IN A CROWD etc??

lets get this issue going (like the successe of my 'strings sound forum)

[ 16 June 2002, 18:30: Message edited by: wildbillonthenet ]

You can create your own sounds. Its just that the demo has all 128 presets.

I dont think anyone can realistically make a truly "unique" sound, but with time and effort spent developing your own style you will eventually come up with your own *total unique sound*, regardless of what you use (if that makes sense!)

Im not dissing this synth, no wait am i am!! DUH! I am just a spoilt brat, or does this synth allow me to truelly 'make' my own soundz. Does it let me import my own sounds and use all the editing stuff to make my own preset, or does this just have complex editing for all the pre-sets?

its like Krim said. look at is this way : we ALL use the same vst and fx, from some kid in a bedroom to the top pop producers. find an artist that you feel is unique. then turn off the computer sit down and listen to his/her records. what makes them unique? the composition? the basslines? that strings part? that tingly hi-hat sound?

you'll find a common thread running through every artists music. and this is the key. find a style you like and stick to it. it doesn't matter if you are using the same presets everyone else is using. its HOW you use them that counts. sooner or later you will start to define your sound, and make people say "ahhh... sounds like a wildbill tune".

dunno if that makes sense. anyhow, i got the same reaction to Absynth as you... WOW! i'd probably never get my head around programming it, but i'll buy it all the same

Al

Al, you put it some much better, thats exactly what i meant.

But of course

You can build your own sound totally from scratch.

BTW the demo has 128 presets but when you buy it
you get another 12 banks .
I think all in all it totals over 700 presets

Holy god! 20 miniuts and i have all these replies!!! I didnt know absynth had all them pre sets, AL you given me a great reply, tar mate!

I would much rather prefer an old plug in that no body knows about, and use the presets of that. Them technically in the eyes of the public i am unique!! HA! Any one whos anyone in this music bizz knows pre sets like the back of their hand. Its the same with SONIC FOUNDRY stuff. You can always pick out the 'pre set loops' that just about 80 per cent 'o' the worlds population use.

What i like best (and this is a note to any soft synth maufacturer) :

Soft synths should be made 'unique' by making them good at ONE THING. MAKE THEM IN A PARTICULAR BRAND OR CLASS

Example:

Soft synths just for boomy sounding bass

Soft synths just for strings sound (see my strings sound forum!!!)

Sythns for old retro sounds (like fm-7 pro 52- they were great plugins)

Catch my drift???

QUESTION:

What plugin sythns are good for BASS sounds???

It sounds like you don't have access to the various parameters ...

Complex editing : yes
Some presets are ... though
A so large and dazzling range of sounds reflects the power, complexity and possibilities of the soft ...

It has lots of unique sounds capabilities and if it's not unique enough for you there are several ways to tweak them beyond recognition

Have you downloaded the Kontakt demo ?

hey bill - it's not what you got, it's how you use it! You can make unique stuff even with the most common equipment.
From what I know about it, Absynth is powerful enough for millions of people to be unique - just think, you can even load you're own samples as basis for oscillators or draw up your own waveforms...
Also softsynths have been made to excel at one thing, but if everyone uses the same thing for the same thing that might lead to everything sounding the same as well...
Maybe you should rather concentrate on the creative process instead of looking for the gear that will "make your music unique"...
just my 2 cents...

can it be done
tell me
is there one
melody
how does it sound
can it be found
that new song
that's never been in the air
i've searched so long
it seems it just isn't there
that meldody so fresh and rare

(Weather Report, from the album Domino Theory)

Don't try to sound unique or to stand out from the crowd. Just express yourself using whatever sounds and compositions you feel right for that. If you are a truly unique individual that really stands out from the crowd, so will your music. Otherwise not, no matter how hard you try.

Pretty much what everyone else is saying, learn to be you. You may learn by listening to others, you may work better finding melodies in your head.

We all work differently. Abysnth might seem limited because, and I mean no offense, you are limited. There's no manual with the demo and you can't save, also it times out after 20 minutes.

The presets are just guidelines. If you find a synth "geeky" to use then move along and try others. People forget real instruments still exist.

Would you say, I don't want to play the violin, it doesn't have enough timbres. You define yourself by how you play the violin or synth or Absynth...

Last thing, learn how far you want to go programming sounds. Lots of artists never do. Maybe look into a sampler and good library. Kontakt is great but it's different from a lot of samplers.

Try things, find your boundries and decide your limits.

I dont get this. The original poster seems to be simultaneously saying 'I dont wanna use presets' and 'I dont wanna learn how to program my synth'. Ive got to say, there's a bit of a problem having both of those attitudes at once.

Then it gets worse. He says 'I WANT UNIQUE SOUDNS' but decides the solution is that software houses should produce a Bass Synth, a String Synth et.c. et.c. instead of something more flexible. Huh?

If you want unique you're going to have to work harder or smarter. The easiest way to get unique is layer two synths, choose some good presets as starting point, then start screwing around with the controls. Then feed them both through 17 effects, at least three of which are by OhmBoyz or TobyBear.
That'll give you unique.

But I really think the poster needs to resolve their internal conflict first. There aint a magic 'inspiration' button, there's only time and the effort you put in...

want a piece of softgear that you can make "unique" and tweeked sounds with? download the demo of kontakt.. import some lame ass pad or drum loop sample.. then tweek tweek tweek. kontakt makes me very happy lately

(does the demo allow you import? i would hope so)

Regardless of whether Absynth - or any other VSTi for that matter - will offer certain things or not, a "unique" sound defenitely isn't made using a certain patch. It's all about HOW you use the instrument.
How many guitar players do you know that have a "unique" sound in terms of physical quality? There's defenitely not much... still, you will be able to identify Joe Pass, Eddie Van Halen, Robben Ford, etc etc etc easily, no matter what instrument you give them (assuming it's a guitar, of course). The same is true for acoustic piano players. And imagine, they only have ONE SINGLE PATCH to play with!

In the end, it comes down to how unique YOU are.
There's no synth in the world that will make yourself sounding unique just by itself - it's all up to what YOU are playing or programming.

Sure, one can review a synth, one can either like it or not, there may even be some (or a lot of) "hard facts" that might have an impact on you purchasing it or not - but in the end even very simple things can live up to being "unique" in the hands of the right person.

Regards,
Sascha

ahhh jeez bill, (kudos on the name by the way:))

i hate how this sounds but... you are really coming from a bad direction with this, why bother trying so hard to be unique? so many people have already stated that what you really need to do is stop and take a look around at all the other artists... how many artists do you know that actually use unique sounding instruments. or even better how many artists are using unique sounding instruments compared to those that are not. it really REALLY is what you do with it that counts. stop using the available synths as an excuse for not sounding unique. get your own sound. and for god's sake, absynth is the most unique vsti out there, it has programming possibilities that make it able to create sounds that are more than unique. but do you think that you will even know what to do with them when you have them? hope this doesnt sound too negative but its all true. if you really want unique sounds then absynth is amazing but what you really need before you even consider it is the talent to use it properly.

A sound is a sound is a sound
Not really but I just wanted to type that...

I think the way one combines sounds makes the music unique...

Lately, I've been trying to take a nasty sound with distortion or something harsh and have another say harp or viloin compliment it. Neither sound is so "different" but the interplay can be, or maybe it is just noise...

The funny thing is that we preceive certain scales and modes as musical. We can try and try to play something different, but most people will just hear NOISE. In the end it is how clever one can be with the spaces bewteen the notes that counts. (within conventional form, sort of)

I must agree it is what you do with the sounds that counts. If a sound inspires you great, but I would rather it come from emotion.

Just please do not waste all your time making sounds if what you are really after is making music... I'd rather leave that to someone who can actually make a useable sound (coz I can't make a cool sound save my life).

Hmmmm, i have been watching wild bills posts, and gotta say, this guy either has No idea or, must be pulling our chains.....

As in....
>Im never going to get my unique, 'stand out from >the crowd' sound with this. Its just someone >elses time, someone elese imajination, then put >in a nice shiney looking box so we all buy it on >our first impressions

Um, you already have that unique sound worked ut in your head?
If so, whats the problem?, you know what you are aiming for.....

As for.....
>HOW CAN I BE UNIQUE, ON A BUDJET, GET MY OWN >SOUND, STAND OUT IN A CROWD etc??

Learn some damn synthesis f00l,get a personality, oh and write good music ,which has nothing to do with "unique sounds"

LOL at this one
>I would much rather prefer an old plug in that >no body knows about, and use the presets of >that. Them technically in the eyes of the public >i am unique!! HA! Any one whos anyone in this >music bizz knows pre sets like the back of their >hand.

Well, go away and use rebirth or something then...
Ok, in "the music bizz", how many sample cds are released a year you think?

I have a timespace 2000 catalog sitting nearby, and oh look, it has over 1000 disks in it for just year 2000, geez, you'd be spending a while listening to patches AND better have a good memory to memorize those presets like the BACK OF YOUR HAND

Thats not to mention the 50 or so synths(just the most popular ones even) you would have to remember every patch from....

>I would much rather prefer an old plug in that >no body knows about, and use the presets of >that. Them technically in the eyes of the public >i am unique!! HA! Any one whos anyone in this >music bizz knows pre sets like the back of their >hand. Its the same with SONIC FOUNDRY stuff. You >can always pick out the 'pre set loops' that >just about 80 per cent 'o' the worlds population use.

So you a preset boy?
You diss everyone else for using em, then say you're going to use em off old plugins?!?
Im assuming that you program your own drum machines then
As any use of a loop would put you into "pre set loop" territory.......

Look, i'll finish my bagging right here by saying, having musicians like yourself around, who form opinions in 20 seconds and don't mind being wrong and contradicting themselves totally could be fun,but i doubt it....

No one here cares if you are "Unique" or not buddy, its whether you make good music or not that counts...
And if you're only measure of good music is that it must be unique, u certainly have a problem then

Bye now bill,have fun with your music.....

(unique, as in "no ones ever gonna hear it?")

WOW! Cool. you make me sound like im a little bitch who 'formes opinions in 20 seconds'. Hmmm. Dont take me wrong i can take bitchin, im just saying that Absynth seems a bit cheesy, thats all. jezzz. Thanks for the positive response from the others, but as for people like Ozguy, if you think im such a twat then why are you wasting your time dissin me, get on with your own life.

woh... before this thread gets a little hostile I thought I'd throw in my two cent-o-rooneys

I tried the Absynth demo and I was quite impressed by the sound of it. However, I was a little intimidated by the complexity of the synth. I figured if I ever got around to saving up enough money for it, I would learn how to use it inside out. Which also means I would be learning synthesis inside out too(kinda). Many people seemed to symphathize with me when I posted about how intimidating I found it. So on this issue, I symphathize with Wild Bill because I understand how he is overwhelmed by it.

I like fooling around with various synths. I don't know them all inside out, but I like playing around with them. I don't think people are either "preset-users" and "programmers", my guess is that everyone is a mix of the two. Some lean more towards preset-use and do a bit of tweaking, others understand how the synths work better and are able to get more impressive results from their own tweakings.

My advice to Wildbill on the issue of synths, is to check out Triangle II and the new Linplug Alpha beta. Play around with those for a while and learn them better(Triangle II has a manual while Alpha doesn't at this point in time).

It could end up being a waste buying Absynth if your really unsure about what it can do and why people buy it.

But we must respect that Wild Bill has turned here for help on the issue, and maybe he didn't phrase things as sensitively as many people around here would like.

Let's face it: Absynth is no more of a "geeks" synth than RMIII or Muon Tau Pro. We are all geeks in some way. But in our geekiness, we are somehow cool.

I think more importantly is not knowing how
to program sounds but how to use these sounds
in music. There are already so many available
sounds to choose from . THere more than enough to
get your ideas out.

When Roland made the 808 ,303 909 etc. the sounds
were there. You can have all the sounds in the
world. I honestly don't know any great music writers who know how to really program a synth.
MOst take presets and do great things with them.

It's knowing how to use these sounds and tweak
them to taste.

You might here presets in many songs but it comes
down to:

Is the song good?
The arrangment.
Does it have great hooks?
How do the sounds interact with each other?
A good mix. Vocals etc...

I would rather work on my arranging skills than
screw around trying to make sounds. There's enough.

Guitar , bass , drums , piano, have been the backbone to thousands of great songs.

Now we have thousands of sounds and thousands
of songs with no backbone.

Mush

wildbillonthenet,

I'm sure Absynth is a good synth, but I have not tried it personally so I will talk about what I have tried. It seems like I say this over and over, but Pentagon I is a great synth! It will do exactly what you say you want. It does come with lots of presets, but you do not have to use those. In fact, you can start with premade raw PCM waveforms and create your own sounds from them. Or, you can even create your own unique PCM waveforms (the Pentagon manual tells you how) and make your unique sound from those. This is fun to do.

I think the bottom line, though, is just like so many have already posted; You don't necessarily need completely unique sounds to have a unique musical sound. For instance, listen to Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. When we hear their music today it is usually using the same instruments, either an orchestra or a piano or both. But, they each have a unique sound. Or listen to almost any popular group from 50 years ago or nowadays in any particular genre. Many use the same or similar instruments, but they still have a unique sound. I do think there is something to what you are saying though, wildbillonthenet. I think what happens with that unique sound you are talking about is this. All musical artists certainly have a style of writing/performing music that is their own, even if only a little different than the next artist. Then, each artist tends to perform with the same band (or is a band), so we get to hear that particular blend of instruments, and each members playing style, over and over which adds a little something different to that artist. This goes on and on, until when you blend each little nuance and difference you finally have a unique sounding artist. Think about this. Imagine if we took the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, and the Eagles, and had them all record the same song. I bet you, nearly everyone would be able to tell who's is whose. Even if the same singer sang for each artist. Why? Because they all have a unique sound that we know. But, it isn't because they are using weird, different, odd, or unique instruments. It's because of what I already mentioned. All those little things, when added together, make their own sound unique.

Okay, I didn't really say all that exactly the way I wanted to, but I hope the gist of what I was trying to say comes through.

Still, I highly recommend Pentagon I. Heh!

OK, some basic Math. I don't have Absynth, but assume it has, say 50 knobs and sliders you can adjust. Lets say each adjustable thing has 50 distinct settings... that's 50 to the *power* of 50 different settings, which is ... uh, a lot. My calculator can't go that high. Divide that by the number of Absynth users, and you still have... uh, a lot of different settings per user. Chances are, even if you only use a few hundred thousand of your settings, you'll find something unique
Take some time and try some whacky random settings on your synth. Then start tweaking one that you think has some potential. Or start with a present that you like and pick 5 knobs and completely change their values.... Does Absynth have a randomise function ?

OK,

Let me try my hands at this too, if from a different angle.

Wildbill, you have to decide first WHY you're making music. If it's to become popular and rich, you're better off abandoning unique and going for the cliche, the lowest common denominator. Sure, there are Beatles and Pink Floyds and Louis Armstrongs, but for every one of them there are at least 20 ABBA's and Brittney Spears, who made just as much money - or more...

If you're doing it because you wanna be an "artiste", you don't even need to make music! All you need is a sufficiently übermensch attitude, and a demeanor that screams "I'm so much above you, you cannot even fathom the incredible genius I'm hiding in the depths of my tortured soul."

If you want to make music because you enjoy making music, then you'd better realize that this nagging feeling of "oy, everything I do is shit" will never go away. This feeling is not merely part of the process - it IS the process. Most of us make music because they never found the perfect band playing the perfect tune with the perfect sounds, and something keeps pushing us to try to create it ourselves (either that, or we just hate our neighbours and love messing with knobs ).

Now, if you have a unique vision or taste or whatever, than your tunes will be unique. But uniqueness has to come from the inside. All the elements of music are more or less the same, and have been by and large since the beginning of mankind. It's the arrangement that's changed, the interpretation of these elements, the view or feeling that they express - this is what separates a superb painting of a medieval lady from a publicity shot from a Hollywood costume drama.

Uniqueness, of course, doesn't mean success. Remember, if you're too unique, chances are nobody else will 'click' with your product; it may be so unique that only you will understand and appreciate it.

So what happens if you a) don't have a unique message or b) a good marketing strategy, or c) it's too unique? If you're into this because of fame, you fail. But if you're into this because of the joys of the creative process, your pleasure will stay.

...and that's what it's all supposed to be about.

As to instruments, I found uniqueness also comes from an intimate familiarity with the capabilities and mechanisms of your tools of the trade. And that, my friend, unfortunately comes at a deep cost: TIME. You can pick any of the more complex VSTi's (personally, I'd heartily recommend Crystal, Triangle II, or Alpha in freeware, or Pentagon, Cronox, or Delta III in the commercial line), BUT PICK ONLY ONE. Spend time with it. A LOT. Don't "buy away" their limitations, but try to overcome them instead. Believe me, it'll be worth your journey.

Oh, and just so you know: it is statistically and factually provable that if you own a single host (say, Orion or Fruity or Muzys), a single 'high-class' synth (like any of those mentioned above), and a handful of FX (FreeverbToo15, BigTick's Delay, Supaphaser, Multilens, ZapFilter2, AlliGater, and Endorphin), for just under $300 you have more than ANYBODY NEEDS to write and burn the next Big Symphony(TM) for the digital age.

You don't need expensive tools, man, you need time. Too bad 'tis the most expensive of all the commodities...

we're all unique, DNA tells,
so let your DNA play for you (!)

merely another way to say:
be yourself, let the wave flow,
know the inner you and all the other cliches
which may be boring but are the only answer to who asks: how can I be unique?

it's very easy to be unique, actually you already are, but hard is that your unique production could be good, could be art for many people

Mr Wild,

I think you seem to be crying out for help. You have obviously just started in the computer music game and you have no idea what to do and what to do it with.

That's fine, you've found a good forum as there are a lot of very experienced music makers here.

If you have no idea what you're doing just let us know that so we can better determine how to help you.

However, it might be a better approach not to start threads like "Absynth...its all a con". There are some people who probably feel like Absynth is an extention of their arm by now and probably don't want to be told they're being swindled.

Your situation probably presents quite a challenge to us because your statements are so contradictory. But I think it's pretty clear that you've jumped in the middle of all this technology and have no idea what you're doing. Absynth would really have been a baptism of fire I would imagine because it really isn't a simple synth.

I would really suggest the best thing to do would be to get a fairly simple synth and start learning. And I really do speak from experience on this because I'm not that good at synthesis myself and I can only imagine what it would have been like coming face to face with Absynth as one of my first synths - I might have given up straight away.

So maybe this thread should be pointing you towards where to start learning to find your own sounds.

The best really simple synth I can think of off the top of my head is CM101. That's a beauty for learning while at the same time producing some great sounds as well. You will have to source a copy of Computer Music to get it though so it's not technically free.

I'm hoping this is what you're really looking for here. I did my synthesis learning from magazines like Computer Music and Future Music. In fact, if you go to the Computer Music website and look at the full list of tutorials there you'll find a couple of tutorials about synthesis.

COMPUTER MUSIC WEBSITE

Have a look there, and my suggestion would be get a simple 2 Oscillator synth (like CM101) and practise while you're learning. You'll have useable sounds in no time and you'll only get better and more versatile as you go on.

I hope this is really the heart of what you're asking for Mr Wild. This really is the way I went and although I would definitely not call myself a great synth programmer (NO WAY), I can now design my own sounds to an extent and I can't remember ever using a preset in my music.

Now sampling can add a extra facet to all this but I'll leave it here for now because my lunch break is well and truly over.

Keep asking the questions Mr Wild, but perhaps be a bit more careful as to how you ask them. And feel free to tell me I'm totally off track with my assessment of your situation - I make it a point to be wrong as much as possible, it makes being occasionally right so much more of a pleasant surprise.

someone needs to make a uniqueness vst that we can run over our mixes which will make every tune sound individual in our own way.

Thaanks y'all for that. I totally understand you now, i need to have a unique imajination, and TWEEK them presets! Cool. Oh, to that bloke that told me to try pentagon, ITS AMAZING! thanks for that. I think i might buy the square first though, as it i high priced for me. Cool, did i mentaion that ive been playing keybourds for 9 years now, and recently just got in to making music with software? SO YEA I NEW TO THIS GAME!.

Ive definatly learnt a thing or two this past day or so, thanks everone!.

you haven't unlocked the potential of this Absynth synth yet.

by the way ... I guess imajination
stands for imagination ?

First: Nice posts, Dingo and Caleb - pretty much nailing things down... apart from the fact that I think ABBA was extremely unique, almost a small revolution - great songwriting, great arrangements, awsome technical realisation (I am not saying that I like their songs at all, btw).
But that's all another story.

Here's another thought:
What is it that makes a "sound" or a composition "unique"? Just some possibilities:

1) Extraordinary performance. Especially found in music that focusses more or less on musical/technical/instrumental skills, such as jazz, but also in other styles - You may like her or not (I don't), but Mariah Carey for example delivers extraordinary, outstanding and "unique" performance (that was just a random example that came to my mind). Excellent production techniques *may* fit into this category as well.

2) Doing the unexpected. This covers a lot of grounds and possibillities. You may for example (again, totally randomized examples):
- Use a TB303 sound as a bass to interprete a jazz standard. This will certainly make the standard sound more or less "unique" - of course assuming nobody else would've done that before.
- Use an oboe as the solo instrument in some shredding metal tune. Even if an oboe is pretty much a standard sound in some sorts of music since ages, in such a context it would be an outstanding (read: eventually "unique") sound

These two examples certainly are more like the extreme kinda things to do - in the end the truth most likely is somewhere between such radical solutions.

3) Musical revolutions.
Uh-Oh! This one is tough to categorize at all. Some examples (again randomized, there's tons more):
- Rock'n'Roll. Basically a social thing, but still what most of nowadays music is based on.
- HipHop/Rap.
- Techno.
- Punk. "Cultivated" lousiness. Just bang the shit out.

As said, there's heaps more, many classical composers have been doing revolutionary things, only using some "standardized sounds" though.

In the end, to bring this back on topic, Absynth (or any softsynth for that matter) could be used in all these categories. The only question is if it does fit your working style and the ideas you have in your head. If hardrock is your game, it might be the totally wrong choice - or it even might be *exactly* what you need to spice up your otherwise guitar oriented productions.
As said, it all depends on you.

Cheers,
Sascha