How do sonic synths drums compare to something like the kits that come with battery? I'm getting Attack for my electronic drums - Would SS take care of my acoustic kits?

(shameless self-promotion mode activated)

... you -did- check out DR-008 already, right? The full version now comes with 200+MB of high-quality kits, both sampled (acoustic kits, and samples from all manner of vintage drum machines), and synthesized (via the synth modules)? No pressure, but I'd at least be interested in your "why not"..

Actually, yeah - that is a possibilty, too. I couldn't get the demo to work properly when i tried it, though.

1.11 demo goes up this week, should be altogether smoother.

What the...Angus! What are you doing? Just kidding. It's all good.

Okay, I might as well tell you a little secret that will make you happy I think. You too Angus. Here's the deal. First to answer your question (although it should be answered in more detail by a SS user- not the developer but since OTHER developers have gotten here first...).

Sonic Synth's drums. For acoustic kits you have one really slammin' I Map Kit which is made for extremely realistic nuance performance. Then you have at least 10 acoustic kits that are also very good as well. You have a full GM percussion map which is handy and then there are truckloads of processed drums using Sampletank's DSP shaping tools. There is also the obligatory 808, 909, CR78 and Simmons stuff in there.

BUT, if you are getting it JUST for acoustic drums then I'd actually NOT recommend it if you can believe it or not!!!!! I mean, it is so much more than just a source for drums. However, it is nice that it has them. That's how I'd look at it.

On the other hand, we are releasing (this week) "Acoustic Drums" expansionROM which is a Sampletank Plug-in itself (each on of the expansionROMS comes WITH Sampletank LE as well so you can't miss getting the sample playback part of Sonic Synth SOMEhow). This collection IMHO is a MUST HAVE. I think everyone into acoustic drums should have it. Not because we want to sell a ton of them (of course we do) but because I simply LOVE acoustic drums and if I am knocked out by this collection then no doubt many others would be too. We have a sample library called "Interactive Drum Kits" that is a favorite and won all kinds of awards and stuff. You can read about it from Keyboard US mag's web site: www.musicplayer.com and dig up the old review. The "Acoustic Drums" eROM has a little of that kind of thing and a whole bunch of other unique material...it's right on the money for what you are wanting here- except for ONE thing.

So, what is that ONE thing? Well, on the one hand it's nice to have drums in Sampletank because it has built-in effects, reasonably low latency and it's laid out like a keyboard which I like. But, on the other hand it is nice to have individual control over each hit, perhaps a "pad-like" set up and individual outs for each hit etc etc. I know that and it's a good thing we are a third party sound developer because there is nothing stopping us from doing this library in both Battery AND the DR008 as well. Tada! There you have it! A great solution. So, what we will probably do is create our "Acoustic Drums" eROM in both of those formats and let you "upgrade" to adding those format versions to your set up when they are out (if you opt to get them in Sampletank format first) or you can wait and get them in DR008 or Battery format.

This is what I would do. I would pick up Sonic Synth because there is a promotion where you can pick a free eROM (unfortunately it is out of the current 4 though so pick Guitars or something) and then you get OmniSynth free. You'll have some drums in that set up but it will mostly be for the 1,000 sounds and 3 gigs of material that is largely not the drums. Then pick up the "sound content only" version of "Acoustic Drums" eROM in ST format (up on the web site this week: www.esoundz.com). That should only set you back about $69. or so. Then we will have the option to "upgrade" to another format to ADD to the one you have (because we KNOW that a lot of you have multiple sampler platforms and we want to accomodate you) for only $30 or so (even though on it's own the DR008 version would be about the same $69. Same with the Battery version).

This way you would have the best of all worlds. Then of course you could pick up your choice of Battery or DR008 but that is something you can debate here on the forum.

Okay, a lot of words from the Squids but, did that make some sense? I hope so. Good luck.

[ 24 June 2002, 14:42: Message edited by: Squids ]

What am I doing? Just pointing out that I'd rather shave with a rusty chisel than use anything SampleTank-based for drums, unless you need literally -zero- tweakability.

Seriously, Squids - I don't doubt that your sounds rock 110%, but having them in a format like DR-008, B*ttery or even LaMe-4 would make 'em so much more useful. BTW, LM-4 scripts - which are perfectly adequate for multisampled acoustic drums - can be imported by DR-008, B*ttery, LM-4, LM-4 mk2, and others. Perhaps your best bet - you obviously lose the customization abilities provided by the more powerful machines, but for acoustic drums all you really need to be able to do is move 'em around the map, change relative volume levels, assign them to outputs and adjust aux send levels.

Hope you've got your DR-008 v1.11 OK, btw - mailed it over a week or so ago. Got some more very, very cool stuff coming for DR-008 which will make it better yet for sound design.

BTW, did I mention that DR-008 is bundled with every copy of Cakewalk's SONAR XL? That's a pretty big user base in the States, and I know a lot of them are thirsty for even more HQ acoustic sounds.

[ 24 June 2002, 15:57: Message edited by: FXpansionAudio ]

Well Battery should already be fantastic I would think (having never used it of course).

If you've got a machine that gives you upteen velocity layers with all the goodies it should theoretically whip SonicSynth's behind in terms of realism etc. when it is programmed well. And Squids is the first to agree with that. SonicSynth specialises in not specialising.

The same could be said for DR008, RMIII and any decent soft-sampler on the market. They're all capable of brilliance in this area.

But, you've got to have a fantastically programmed multi-velocity sample set done for you unless you want to go through the torture of doing it yourself and I can only imagine the pain you would have to go through to do that.

So it's better to look for the best accoustic sample set of accoustic drums on the market and then work out what you can use them in and there's your answer.

So one set I think is probably worth considering is Squids' own Interactive Drum Kit that he mentions, then there's the ultimate accoustic Battery sample etc. etc. etc.

Just based on the machinery though I think alot of the bigger soft drum samplers and certainly a large number of the soft general samplers will do it for you.

Then again, you could go completely troppo and use already recorded loops and use PhatmatikPro or similar, or you could get something like Stylus.

There's just so many ways of doing good drums these days as long as you've got the money for the sounds.

If you are a finger drummer, the upcoming drums eROM might be the way to go, but if you want tweakability, I would advise you to go with Dr-008 or RM-III. The ST format is limited where drums are concerned.

I actually often use SS for the original drum track, cause the sounds are so goof and then replace it with a custom RM III kit later, when I want to add velocity layering.

... and of course at the end of it, there is always Phatmatik Pro

prog

Tweakability comes in many forms. In Sampletank it is nice to be able to tweak your heart out with compressors (that sound like tube compression..hmmm T Racks?) and EQ, Distortion and all sorts of AM, FM and other FX. But, it is also nice to have individual flexibility for each hit. So, in that respect it is a good idea to be able to also have them in other playback formats. And- that is why we are doing them in multiple formats! The only thing you have to consider is the sounds themselves. Well, we have a rep for making good sounds so... you have options from there.

No - i would difeinitely not get Sonic Synth just for drums. However, my budget is limited - i was just wondering if IT would take care of my acoustic drums needs for now (i'm going to use other, tweakable sources for my electronic drums [attack, dr-oo8, etc.] - i actually don't use acoustic drums too much, and don't really feel a need to be able to tweak them).

Nice Squids, glad to hear your porting the Drums eROM to DR008 (I believe that was my idea ). I was actually going to make the same recomendation as you though, if you want good acoustic drums pick up the upcoming eROM, not Sonic Synth. The Imap kits alone are worth trading off for the current lack of tweakability (flexibility anyone?) just because of their potential for doing things I've never heard out of drum samples before. For instance you can totally program surf drum rolls with it, you know where the snare is just going off fast as lightning 24/7, and it actually sounds real as hell. Plus all kinds of other cool stuff with the hats and cymbals. The only thing is you have to learn a new drum map, which I still haven't (but there's time). I just got the general midi drum map down, I think it's time I work on nailing that Imap kit down.

You know, the I-Map drum kits are not that hard to learn. A lot of it is based on GM in the first place (except the toms). The kick, snares and hats are in the same place as GM but an octave up (because it is annoying to have to play so low on the keyboard IMO) and then there are just more hits instead of claps and things. Incoporating the ghost notes and the left and right stick rolls are where technique really come into play. I will have a free tutorial on it soon and you can get a finger drum lesson on it.

That was a good point Lanstar Zero made though about just wanting an acoustic kit that you don't have to tweak. It's nice to just load up the kit and apply some effects and start writing. Of course you can do that with other players too but...I don't know. I do this stuff and I am fine with having it in a multisample player most of the time. It all depends.

I'm kinda with you there Squids if the samples are good you shouldn't have to tweak. For instance I'm using a Zoom RT-123 as my drum box, and I do like it's samples so usually it's just a matter of pressing record once I have the part written. For the most part though I'm actually recording each track individually just to tweak the drum mix (I like my cymbals and hats low in the mix), and even with the Imap kit I wouldn't be doing anything differently than I currently am. In fact it would even be quicker because even if I did do the same thing, I wouldn't have to wait 3 minutes to record each drum to audio, I'd just bounce down the VSTi which is quicker.

Squids just two quick questions, is a DR-008 port definate? And if so what will the crossgrade price between the eROM and the DR-008 version look like?

Well if you just want some decent accoustic kits not the best accoustic kit you can possibly lay your hands on, then the Accoustic Drums eROM that Squids mentioned earlier could well be the way to go as it comes complete with the engine required to actually play the sounds.

However, if you don't go for the Waldorf Attack and are still looking at a way to produce synth drums as well as samples have a closer look at DR008 - it could well be what you're looking for and there would be plenty of decent accoustic kits around for you to play with.

That would be a much cheaper solution, I imagine then going for the Waldorf + SonicSynth eROM.

I'm not sure about comparisons between the Waldorf Attack and DR008 in producing synthetic drum sounds though. Maybe someone else can help out there.

Sounds like a cool deal to me Squids. It's nice to have a company looking the users out.