KVR: Forum Archive - ATMOSPHERE

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Author	Topic: ATMOSPHERE
noodle	Posted: 3rd August 2002 11:45
	Hello Eric, I've been hearing about this upcoming VSTi alot recently. I am a big fan of pad sounds and was considering purchasing the NI Pro-53 when it comes out. It would be cool if you can answer some of my questions: 1) How many layers of patches can be combined? 2) Will there be demo songs made using Atmosphere anytime soon? 3) Is the sampler used in Atmosphere similar to the ones used in sampletank? 4) Will it be available to purchase in the UK? Cheers!
spectrum	Posted: 3rd August 2002 17:19
	quote: Originally posted by noodells: Hello Eric, I've been hearing about this upcoming VSTi alot recently. I am a big fan of pad sounds and was considering purchasing the NI Pro-53 when it comes out. It would be cool if you can answer some of my questions: 1) How many layers of patches can be combined? 2) Will there be demo songs made using Atmosphere anytime soon? 3) Is the sampler used in Atmosphere similar to the ones used in sampletank? 4) Will it be available to purchase in the UK? Cheers! Thanks! The comparison with Pro-53 is kind of apples and oranges. I'm looking forward to the Pro-53 myself, but its concept is totally different. It's a modeling synth that is based on the Prophet architecture with added FX and HPF etc. It's a great "all-around" synth. I'll be upgrading myself. For Pad sounds, Atmosphere has a MUCH more wide ranging set of colors and textures. It does not only great analog sounds (with more richness and depth and width than something like Pro-52), but also much more exotic textures like additive layers, granular type sounds, morphing vocal washes, evolving harmonic sounds, complex ambiences, and sounds are only possible by have a 3 gig wavetable of custom samples we made using many combinations of over a 100 synths and devices. You can combine two layers and mix and match them on the interface (that's over a million combinations from the 1,000 patches). The layers are much richer in Atmosphere than simple waveforms that most synths have...they are more like complete sounds themselves. MP3 demos will be coming pretty soon on the site. We use a different engine than Sampletank, but that's one of the reasons why we are able to customize it for each instrument for optimal sound quality and user interface for each module. Our beta progress is going really well, and barring any problems, it will be available next month in the UK. It's coming out totally stunning and we are really excited about it. If you like pads...you will love this, because there is really nothing like it anywhere in hardware or software. All the best, spectrum
VitaminD	Posted: 3rd August 2002 17:24
	hmm hey spectrum.. just curious.. will you be able to adjust the envelope to made leads with atmosphere?
spectrum	Posted: 3rd August 2002 17:31
	Yes....you can do leads and more "non-pad" sounds too. The focus of the wavetable is on pad colors, but people will be quite suprised how versatile and unique of an all-around synth it is too. This will only increase over time with future updates and stuff too...we have lots of plans in this area. The current specs are really just the beginning spectrum
Mighty_Hero	Posted: 3rd August 2002 17:43
	you know what would really be cool.........a demo of any of your products.
submerge	Posted: 3rd August 2002 17:49
	quote: Originally posted by Mighty_Hero: you know what would really be cool.........a demo of any of your products. Dunno how feasible that would be... at most it would have to be a really cut down version as the libraries are massive from what i've seen. Anyway - i am absolutely on atmosphere as soon as it comes out really really looking forward to it... just hope it comes out for mac/pc simultaneously so i am not taunted by my mac owning friends
Mighty_Hero	Posted: 3rd August 2002 19:14
	look at what sampletank did, simply put. I bought sonic synth for this reason solely. they would sell more..period. PLUS, the CONSUMER, already knows how to use it product, "thats so easy to use", I have been told, if we can actually try it first. [ 03 August 2002, 22:16: Message edited by: Mighty_Hero ]
Tokartta	Posted: 3rd August 2002 19:33
	Demos of Stylus, Atmosphere, and Trilogy... Now that would be cool... I might need some new underwear
spectrum	Posted: 4th August 2002 05:17
	Thanks for your suggestions, I agree that it would be cool to have full demos (I like to demo products before purchasing them myself), but it isn't possible to fully demo the actual product because of the huge size. Since these products rely so much on the quantity and variety of the core wavetable library, it's very important to us that people get a real demo of how vast they are (it's one of the most important aspects of what we are doing). Demoing a few sounds would not be the same thing at all. It would still leave you wondering what the rest of it would be like. (Especially due to the vast array of tastes and stylistic preferences out there....it's really impossible to please everyone with just a few sounds) . Because of this, with think the possibility for an incomplete evaluation is extremely high. In the case of DSP only plug-ins and instruments, you can get a very good idea of what they are like from the demo versions. This is becoming pretty standard practice, and most people are used to a limited, yet "full version" for demoing the product. Since a "full demo" isn't possible yet, we don't want to release a vastly cut down demo, that may convince some, but give others an incomplete picture of what is possible. So for now, you'll have to demo our instruments at your local dealer or talk with people who have it. In the future, we have some interesting new ideas for getting a better "hands-on" idea of what our instruments are like. We'll keep thinking of ways to do this and we appreciate all your suggestions. Best, spectrum
progfusion74	Posted: 4th August 2002 05:31
	Spectrum, What is the general means of testing out sample libraries like Symphony of Voices? From what I can see, sample-based content relies heavily on word of mouth (that's pretty much how I got Sonic Synth). I think the ST Free analogy is not quite appropriate. ST Free gives you a few sounds every month, but in no way can it remotely give anyone a clue about the variety and quality of Sonic Synth. Same would hold true for the Spectrasonics stuff. On the other hand, sample-based content is expensive, which naturally makes a large number of VSTi users, who are used to low prices a little nervous. prog
noodle	Posted: 4th August 2002 08:34
	Hey spectrum thanks for the replies! Being totally crazy about Pad sounds, I origionally ordered Sonic Synth (still waiting for it to arrive) for the lush pad sounds it had and I think Im gonna get Atmosphere too I've been reading the specs and have a few questons: 1) are the patches constructed using multisampled sounds? If so, how many samples make up a typical patch and also how many velocity layers per sound? 2) At the moment I'm not sure why it is an advantage for it to be able to layer 2 sounds. Couldn't this simply be acheived by opening another instance of atmosphere and then combine as many layers of sounds as you need? Cheers! Can't wait to check out the demo songs.
spectrum	Posted: 4th August 2002 19:07
	Yeah Raven...definitely we want to expand the video demo idea...seems to have really helped with people having a better grasp of what Stylus is all about. I'd like to do a really nice video demo of Atmosphere and Trilogy, with high-quality sound and visuals that could really give you a really good idea of what it is about. The main obstacle to all these great promotional ideas is TIME. Right now, we've got all the efforts of our whole team going into finishing these instruments and getting them ready for shipping. Since the demand is so high already, we have to put the energy into getting them out, not in finding new ways to demonstrate them.....at least for the moment. Once they are all out and shipping, we will take a look at some creative ways of demoing them like a video workshop idea....I'm all for it. Thanks for all your suggestions. spectrum
spectrum	Posted: 4th August 2002 19:33
	quote: Originally posted by noodells: Hey spectrum thanks for the replies! Being totally crazy about Pad sounds, I origionally ordered Sonic Synth (still waiting for it to arrive) for the lush pad sounds it had and I think Im gonna get Atmosphere too I've been reading the specs and have a few questons: 1) are the patches constructed using multisampled sounds? If so, how many samples make up a typical patch and also how many velocity layers per sound? 2) At the moment I'm not sure why it is an advantage for it to be able to layer 2 sounds. Couldn't this simply be acheived by opening another instance of atmosphere and then combine as many layers of sounds as you need? Cheers! Can't wait to check out the demo songs. 1. Yes, the sounds are multisampled based on the needs and techniques required for the particular sound. It varies from a single sample streched all the way across the keyboard, to chromatically sampled sounds over five or six octaves. (and everything in between) It really depends on what the type of sound is. For Ambient sounds created with processing or Granular techniques, a single sample is quite interesting sounding across the whole range and obviously extremely memory efficient. Other sounds require vastly more samples and memory -like accurately capturing a great analog synth like a JP-8 or Memorymoog requires much more detailed and careful multisampling with world-class A/D converters. We don't do much velocity switch type multisampling in Atmosphere, because the dynamics come from the Dual layer approach and all the realtime filters and envelopes/lfos etc. Bottom line is that we make sure it's the sound that dictates the method we use, and every sound has slightly different requirements to present it optimally. 2. Firstly, everything can be done in one easy to use interface, and more importantly, the Dual Layer approach of Atmosphere is actually how many of the patches are created (every patch has two layers)...it's not just a user feature. From a sound designers point of view, being able to create a composite sound from two complex and rich layers is vastly more powerful and dynamic. For instance, Atmosphere might have a patch called "Ghost in the Machine" that uses one layer for a lush hollow analog synth sound, and the other layer has a swirling, complex granular cloud effect that morphs over time. At a very simple level, you can decide how much of each layer you want to hear, making it more or less complex sounding based on the needs of your music. Or you can quickly try different tunings of each layer to see how the granular layer sounds an octave higher or the lush sound up a fifth. Then try filtering each layer with different filter types, or panning effects, or different envelopes...try a random effect on one of the layers tuning,...it's really easy to do all of this too. The best part is that you can instantly mix and match any of the layers that make up every patch. This is where the vastness comes in...there are so many possiblities and essentially every combination sounds interesting and useful, because we've designed the product this way. Mixing and matching the layers is super-easy....and basically anyone can do this and come up with unique combinations that sound great. That's the idea in a nutshell at least... spectrum [ 04 August 2002, 22:35: Message edited by: spectrum ]
noodle	Posted: 4th August 2002 21:26
	Wow that sounds interesting, I think I'm sold
Mushroom	Posted: 4th August 2002 21:43
	I think mp3 demos are sufficient for a vsti on this scale. Spectrasonics is a world class company with some of the best programmers. I trust Erics ear. 1000 patches is a hell of a lot. If you buy a Roland , yamaha etc... keyboard or sound module you can't expect to like every patch or layout. I saw the Stylus video on their site. That's all I need. A few mp3's are nice also.I purchased sonic synth just on word of mouth through these forums. Great purchase. I don't think a demo is nessesary.1000 patches. Unbeleivable!!!! Mush
Raven	Posted: 4th August 2002 21:57
	Hi spectrum ... Totally understand how a demo for Atmosphere is impractical. Would a workable idea be to have a video made of Atmosphere being put through it's paces showcasing it's sounds. This video could then be compressed and distributed on CD (rom) to retailers or available as an online order at a small fee for P&P There is a nice AVI video of Sampletank being demonstrated on the Sampletank installation disk ... that would have sold me if I had not already brought it.
zannfielld	Posted: 4th August 2002 23:25
	Hmmmmmm, your last post half sold me, now I am really interested! 1 Will you be bringing out new sound sets for atmosphere in the future or will this (admittedly massive) 1000 selection be the only ones released? 2The patches can be detuned against each other eg moving one patch up 3 semitones or 5 when playing against another patch ect ect. 3 will it work in the same way as most analog synths in so far as you can use the volecity to open and close the filter of each note respectively. This last point is very important to me as I creat alot of my sequences this way! Many thanks Jake
dudeman	Posted: 5th August 2002 00:06
	quote: Originally posted by spectrum: Yeah Raven...definitely we want to expand the video demo idea...seems to have really helped with people having a better grasp of what Stylus is all about. I'd like to do a really nice video demo of Atmosphere and Trilogy, with high-quality sound and visuals that could really give you a really good idea of what it is about. I'd like to second the motion for a video demo. The one Eric makes available on his site really helped me to see what the program was capable of; more than what a downloadable, stripped-down version would do for me. I like being able to see a bonafide professional put the program through the paces because it allows me to see the methodology that goes hand-in-glove with the technology of the app. Personally, downloadable demos have two limitations : the demo itself is normally limited in some way; I'm limited in knowing how to use it properly. Usually it's something like, Here's the specs, here's the demo, have at it. But, when Eric was doing the actual demo'ing, I could see the method behind the software, how it interacted with Logic(?), and how it worked by using a keyboard. If the video currently available was done in a studio where I could better see the computer monitor it would have been a perfect device for the sale. I've seen similar video demos for hardware and appreciated it tremendously. I realize that bandwidth seems always to hold the idea of video on-line in abeyance but, the power of it for concluding "is this product what I want?" is just what I'm looking for in an online-distribution context.
spectrum	Posted: 5th August 2002 01:48
	quote: Originally posted by dudeman: If the video currently available was done in a studio where I could better see the computer monitor it would have been a perfect device for the sale. Yeah...that's what we are looking into...it'll just take a little while to do, since it's really a project unto itself. thanks for the feedback, spectrum
spectrum	Posted: 5th August 2002 01:50
	Zannfielld...I can happily answer YES to all your questions. spectrum [ 05 August 2002, 04:51: Message edited by: spectrum ]
etherize	Posted: 5th August 2002 03:27
	spectrum... what about filters? Having a sample of a moog or oberheim without the filter really isn't the full montey so to speak Also any update on HTDM versiions? If you need a TDM system I will personally bug DIGI for you
Mushroom	Posted: 5th August 2002 05:08
	Far as I know the filters sound great. The glide and legato are a must for the moog sounds which the uvi engine has. We're going to be blown away no doubt. As I said in my previous post. Eric is a great programmer with tons of experience. I'm sure he has all the bases covered and then some. Mush
spectrum	Posted: 5th August 2002 05:54
	Etherize: Yes, of course we spent a lot of time with the UVI team on the filters and they sound great. You have independant filters (12, 18, 24db LowPass and Hi Pass resonant filters) per layer, and an additional Master Filter for the whole output that does Low Pass and Hi-Pass like a big Master Tone knob which is really easy to use. Looking into HTDM support, shouldn't be too hard...but you know that it is nearly identical to RTAS in actual use...right? Pro Tools TDM systems can already use our RTAS versions just fine. The only realy advantage to HTDM is that you can use the aux and input channels instead of taking up an audio track....but other than that, it's just a fancier sounding name for host based RTAS. We'll probably do it, but it will come out a little later. Thanks for the testing offer, but we're pretty well covered now on our TDM beta team. best, spectrum [ 05 August 2002, 09:12: Message edited by: spectrum ]
spectrum	Posted: 5th August 2002 06:06
	This is the latest version of the interface, which should help in understanding a little more about what we've been discussing here:
Moritz Morpheus MkIII	Posted: 5th August 2002 06:25
	hey spectrum..sounds very exiting, but where�s that link? peace, moritz
etherize	Posted: 5th August 2002 07:53
	thanks for your response spectrum, As far as HTDM support the important difference to me is that RTAS will never be supported in 3rd party apps like Logic and Digital Performer (Digi won't allow it) while HTDM is supported in Logic and DP 3.1. This is important because i don't know anyone who uses Protools front end as a sequencer most of us use DP or Logic so RTAS for a synth is not usefull to us. I can't wait to hear your upcoming products. I am glad to know that time was spent on the filters you will be sure and hear my opinion on them when they are released. I know this subject is on Atmosphere but I hope your Triligoy product is able to get closer to a real electric bass..(although I don't know if that is your intention) using real bass in electronic music is popular now and being able to do it in the computer would be awesome but I dout possible... Also it would be great if you considered a bundle of all 3 products since i will probably and many others will just by them all... THANKS
spectrum	Posted: 5th August 2002 12:23
	Hi Etherize, Hmmm....we've been told by MOTU that HTDM is NOT supported in DP 3.1...only TDM. Are you sure about this? Also, we have many users using Logic front end, with Pro Tools hardware using Emagic's ESB system bridge, which seems to work quite well. In this case, you can already use the VST plug in. Trilogy is the best electric bass EVER....(IMHO ) You'll see..... For deals, talk to your retailer. spectrum [ 05 August 2002, 15:25: Message edited by: spectrum ]
vic_france	Posted: 6th August 2002 11:51
	quote: Originally posted by spectrum: Yeah Raven...definitely we want to expand the video demo idea...seems to have really helped with people having a better grasp of what Stylus is all about. Well,I don't know if that holds true for all video demos, but I've just seen the Stylus video on your site,after which, and just before coming back in here, I've just ordered Stylus from my local store! ...and I hadn't even been 'hovering over" the idea of buying it,until I saw it demonstrated! (btw,wipes away a tear of nostalgia,upon seeing the CS80 behind Eric in one of those photos:-) Back on topic, I have a question about the Modulation Matrix in Atmosphere...the CC button, I presume,at least I hope, that one can select a CC# of one's choice? Aftertouch too,pretty please? It can really bring a pad sound to life, especially if it's polypressure (I've never been without polyphonic aftertouch since my own CS80!)...this is one VSTi I'm really looking forward to! [ 06 August 2002, 15:24: Message edited by: vic_france ]
spectrum	Posted: 6th August 2002 15:50
	Hi Vic, Yes, you can route Aftertouch to any of the destinations too (and many other source). However, it's channel aftertouch for the moment. I'll see if we can get poly aftertouch in there for you. (You don't have to convince me how cool it is on the CS-80) I never really use poly aftertouch on MIDI rigs though, because I've never found a MIDI keyboard that sent it in a comfortable way. I even had my A-50 modified , but it's still way too hard to send aftertouch in a musical, comfortable way like it is on the CS-80. What keyboard controller are you using? spectrum [ 06 August 2002, 18:51: Message edited by: spectrum ]
vic_france	Posted: 6th August 2002 18:37
	Hi again Eric:-) That's wonderful news about the aftertouch ( some people will do anything to get customers!! LOL) It's a sad fact that there are no longer any keyboards currently manufactured that offer polyphonic aftertouch (Vic plays the funeral march in the background). I do however have four such animals:-) My main master keyboard is the totally wonderful Elka MK88 mk II (and I keep a spare one under the bed,for that fateful day when Elka #1 goes to the graveyard). It is,as the name suggests, an 88 note wooden keyboard,with poly and channel aftertouch, 3 assignable sliders, 2 assignable pedals, 3 footswitches,the usual mod and pitchwheels,(and a partridge in a pear tree. It sends polypressure out to MIDI beautifully. My other 2 keyboards with polypressure are from Ensoniq..an SD1/32 and a VFX SD..61 note plastic keyboard,but here again the pressure sensors work great:-) Did you ever try Kurzweil's Masterboard( or was it called "Midiboard?)? I very nearly bought one myself,years ago, but I was warned how fragile they were, pity..just imagine the beast that would now be a K2600X with polypressure!! (I still have a Rhodes Chroma, unfortunately no longer in working condition, but in spite of all my trying,was never able to get the pressure sensors for it. It does however have an add-on box from a company called Syntech, which converted this pre-MIDI machine into an extremely powerful master MIDI keyboard..and it would have been perfectly happy to transmit poly pressure data too! Anyways, looks like you'll be having yet another customer for Atmosphere,just as soon as it's ready..and my copy of Stylus should be arriving in the next two days!) PS; Is yor CS80 still going strong? Hows about sampling it for us?? ) Edit: I've just spotted one of your earlier posts...so, there'll be some CS80 sounds in Atmosphere!! COOL ) [ 06 August 2002, 22:18: Message edited by: vic_france ]

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