I'm using Reason 2 and Cubase SX in ReWire mode.

I was wondering what the general opinion was of the quality of the Subtractor and Malstom synths from Reason compared to some of the VSTi's available such as FM7, Model-E, PPG, Pentagon 1, the A1 in Cubase SX etc...

What would be a qood equivalent of the Subtractor in VSTi form.

I'm getting very good sounds from Reason's Subractor but they lack a warmth and sparkle. I'm not sure if its the synth or my production!

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I think that most would agree that the Props went the "CPU efficiency over quality" route with Subtractor, but it does have it's own unique character, like any other synth. It's a pretty standard subtractive soft synth and is easily outclassed by the synths you have mentioned and many more. The Malstrom, on the other hand, is rather brilliant and pretty unique. I think it's a wonderful sounding synth and there's nothing else quite like it. Personally, I would just recommend using whatever sounds good to your ears or fits your creative needs. After spending some time experimenting and using these instruments, I think you'll be plenty qualified to make your own decisions on what is "good" or not. It's all fairly subjective anyways.

-Tronam

To my ears even the $35 SimSynth Live sounds better than Subtractor. Pentagon I and Delta III blow it away. FM7 is in a different class. You will not yet find an equivalent to Malstrom but it should not take long for one of the many talented programmers here to produce something just as good if not better.

Robert

I am completely NOT impressed by the sound of Reason as a whole. I find it sounding very flat.

Malestrom is a cool concept, but I like my vsti's.

I went out and bought Reason 2.0, and after using it for a few days and realizing I did not like how it sounded I am now going to sell it.

dw

discodave wrote:

I'm getting very good sounds from Reason's Subractor but they lack a warmth and sparkle. I'm not sure if its the synth or my production! Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

yeah ive found the exact sam thing with Subtractor...very digital sounding. Thing I love about it tho is whenever cubase`s performance metre starts going towards the 70 - 80 mark you can whack 4 subtractor`s in the mix with hardly any increase in cpu useage. If you want a more 'warm' sound I highly recommend checking out the demos of VAZ2010 and Pentagon.

Here's a cool little tip.
Route the output of subtractor through malmstroms filters. It makes a lot of difference. Plus as you step through the, un-used, malmstrom patches the filter cutoff etc changes. Super lazy but very productive.

I don't know, I have to disagree completely here. I love the sound of Subtractor although it's too distinctive sometimes. And Maelstrom is even better. I have or have tried all of the others and I love them too, and actually they all fit together in a mix very well. I also have alot of hardware synths, and have no problem getting them to play well together. Personally this whole what's better than another thing is pretty boring. Again it's what you do with the sounds that's important. Just my 2cents.

dusted, what are you going to sell it for? have you registered it?

I didnt like Reason 1's sound, or its closed architechture, but i thought id give V2 a try, in case i would want to use it via ReWire in OPlat, but i have to say, i was very dissapointed with the sound. Didnt impress me at all. I think you can get much better sounds from FREE VSTi's, IMO

Hey!
nuffink's idea of running Subtractor through Malstrom's filters is good-especially if you control cutoff with one of the Matrix pattern sequencers
ew

It works well with monophonic parts but not as well with pads.

Robert

In case a Propellerhead sees this thread - i'd like to say that i would pay 300$ (or whatever full price of Reason2 is) for a VSTi collection of Reason synthetizers to be used in Fruityloops.

This is coming from beta-tester, long-time user and advocate of Fruityloops.

Simply because it would be a great, flexible, complimenting and tight package - and i wouldn't have to abandon Fruityloops, or switch to completely new metaphor of connecting synths.

Sorry ive got to disagree with most of you here but im writing dance tracks and have a whole selection of vsti,s imho the synths in Reason do exactly what they say on the tin. The subtractor is a very very versatile analogue synth if programmed properly and if you go to sites like Peffs you can pick up hundreds of patches for it for free.

The subtractor isnt the whole story though and if you spend time with it and delve a little deeper using the cv and gate connections and the rex players there is quite simply nothing that even comes close especially when rewired to cubase, played in cubase and adding some vst effects.

I also use fruity a hell of a lot and the latest incarnation as a vst plug-in is excellent but still as i said, Reason enables you to go that bit further, especially with some of the refills available now, you can get some bizarre and unique sounds.

just my 2cents

Recently I've worked on two projects where i decided it would be more economical (time-wise) to use Reason as the sole sound-generator and Cubase as the sequencer, which has meant getting to know Reason a lot more than before.

I do agree with some of the comments about Subtractor..it is a little weak
and Malstrom does have a much more instant presence and bass. However, I think anyone who doubts the vastly improved fidelity of Reason 2 needs to check again. In fact I've done a number of tests with .rx2 and audio files in HALion or on audio tracks and they sound no different at *all* to playing them in an NNXT or Dr Rex.

Yes FM7 etc etc etc is great, but that's entirely missing the point of how Reason works, which is essentially a 'modular' system. The Subtractor can sound just as great as Pro 53 when u chain 3 of them together and it *still* uses less cpu.

A simple listen to some of the demos/tunes for Reason (try peff.com)
should remind us that it's what u do with sounds and the tools you have that makes music come alive. There's plenty of shit music made in VST and Logic (and Protools for that matter) No one VSTi will fix everything. Absynth might be superb for zooshy ambient fx and pads (just another example), but im yet to hear a convincing analog noise thats useful for melody lines from it.

To this end, Reason (straight out of the box) is a miracle and in a lot of ways delivers what Cubase and Logic never have and probably never will.

Your ears and creativity have a lot more to do with the result than the
software you're using.

IMO Subtractor is a little limited in sonic abilities, its not that "phat". But it is great for FX and Ive gotten some very awesome unique pads with a little work. I think its totally useful and where it falls short Malmstrom picks up, which sounds incredible to me. It may be my imagination but Reason 2.0 sounds much fuller than 1.0. Even Subtractor seems to sound a bit better in 2.0. Ive always liked Reason's simplicity. The FX could be much better though.

Feveria wrote:

In case a Propellerhead sees this thread - i'd like to say that i would pay 300$ (or whatever full price of Reason2 is) for a VSTi collection of Reason synthetizers to be used in Fruityloops.

Amen to that, minus the Fruity limitation. I've said the same thing for literally years now (on their boards, even), but apparently it doesn't fall in the realm of their marketing strategy (read: closed platform, save for ReWire).

- m

same here

$99 for the redrum and dr.rex

im not a fan of subtractor.. but as far as the percussion elements of reason go.. i'd love to have these in VSTi format..

I don’t think anyone can deny that Reason is a great package, a good value, and was a miracle of coding when it came out. But things are changing fast. This thread shows the pitfalls encountered with a closed system. For the same money you can get FL or Orion with some sound generators and have an open, easily expandable system. You can upgrade the sequencer of any sound source without loosing use of the entire package. With Reason you are tied to rewire and the few programs that support it.

Robert

reason might be an option but i had a play with it once and the effects almost made me cry with dissapointment, and i cant afford the whole rewire to another host thing(i dont own cubase and im not gonna buy it for this). Having said that ive heard some great stuff made with reason.

Ok about Subtractor- i think its a VERY versatile synth and some of the features on it are very uinique to it,i agree that it sounds a little thin when u run it without ANY effects,jus pass it thru a Chorus and maybe some Distortion(if its ur style) and u have a synth that really sounds good,the filters on it are a little weak when u compare to Maelstrom and NNXT but these are much more cpu intensive than subtractor.What the Maelstrom can do right now no other synth can,and about the NNXT i really find it very useful as its much faster and easier to work with compared to VSTi's like Halion,Kontakt.

Overall this program is a real killer and only let down by weak sounding effects but then again if all of their intsruments sounded great i dont we wuld get this kind of cpu friendly performance.

Cheers!

Maelstrom is very nice - i would definitely want this as a VSTi.

Thanks all for the replies.

Just want to clear one thing up.

I think Reason is amazing and does sound brilliant, I'd recommend it to anyone! Only £300 for all that!

I've been using in for a couple of years now probably and it's got me my first tune released and another one on the way so I know what it's capable of. it's tought me everything I know, i was a complete begginner when i first bought it. I've had coments from Pros who have been amazed at the sound's I've got from it. One actually said it sounded like his Supernova! Not sure about that but.

After playing with the Pentagon 1 demo last night I was convinced that that was the now the way to go. I'll keep using all of Reasons instruments ReWired to Cubase because they all have there uses. I do have to admit though that Pentagon 1 does sound much 'phatter' and warmer than Subtractor without having to layer loads together, but that's not putting Sub down, it's just that Pentagon happens to produce the sounds I want better than the Sub, although there are some sounds I was struggling to reproduce but I think that's down to my huge lack of synth programming knowledge.

I agree that each instrument is good at different things.

I'll stop ranting now. Cheers for the opinions. It's helped a lot.