following some comments on the NI rompler thread ...

from prophet ...

Quote:

you know it wouldnt be hard for us guys at kvr to make our own rompler. All we would need is someone to make a sampler/soundfont+ player using synthedit, someone to do a classy gui (hey, howa you doin!] and everyone else to make sounds/soundfonts (remember chainer, just chain up your favourite vstis, make some nice patches and export to soundfont, you can do this with the demo version!) if enough of us got involved we could have something just as good, but for free. It just takes a few people to get involved! imagine that, a kvr vsti supersynth. mmmm, yummee!

from me ...

Quote:

... we already have ... there are two [vanilla and fsu flavours] soundfont samplesynths at my site ... it wouldnt be too much work to add more features to either of these or convert them to play .wav files ... anyone want to offer some home-made soundfonts that i can host [if theyre not too big] or link to from my site and we can start to knock together prophets diy k-v-r rompler ... any takers ? ...

from munchkin ...

Quote:

A lot of these romplers use 32bit samples. How would we bring together all these huge sound files to make the KVR rompler? Also you have to loop them (well certain sounds anyway). Who would do that? I think a KVR rompler would be great but it needs some sort of plan (which I'm not clever enough to come up with). Any ideas?

i find this an intriguing idea ... we cant compete with the big boys but why cant we jointly develop a freeware k-v-r rompler ... if anyones interested here are my thoughts ...

> we keep the sounds open-format [either straight .wav or .sf2 [my preferred option] so although we 'ship' the k-v-rompler with a set of custom sounds the user can add their own easily ...

> from the comments on other rompler threads people want more mangling possibilities than the spectrasonics or [presumably a CUT-DOWN closed kontakt] NI romplers offer ...

> i already have [in fontaminator] a synthedit-built .sf2 player / mangler ... synthedits .sf2 playback engine has been much improved recently with proper stereo support and improved loop handling [reminds me ... must recompile esef and fontaminator at some point ] ... so with a few tweaks and added features [plus a new k-v-r gui from someone with more time / talent than me] we have the instrument itself ready to go ... if people want .wav rather than .sf2 then that shouldnt be TOO much of a problem ...

> anyone whos interested in submitting sounds could have a beta version to develop their patches on [so we have sounds that are sample+player effects rather than just vanilla samples ... kinda like the way squids and co use the sampletank effects] ...

> there are many many REALLY talented sound designers out there in k-v-r land ... even if folks just submitted 3 or 4 sounds each we would soon have a pretty big bank of patches to ship with the thing ...

> with an .sf2-based freeware instrument we arent trying to compete ... it would be more about a community thing and also might get k-v-r noticed in a few new places ... how many freeware romplers can you name ...

> even though we would be doing it for the love of it ... its also good exposure for those involved in putting it together ... whether the instrument itself ... the gui ... a dedicated webpage ... the sounds ... whatever ...

im up for organising this ... there should be scope here at k-v-r for collaboration beyond just the cool musical ones surely ... anyone else interested ... sign up and offer your services / suggestions below ...

btw ... sorry for the squids-length post [must be a rompler thing ] ... but i think this could be quite cool ... no ...

... welcome to 2oo3 rob

well as you know, i want this to happen. I guess we should go ahead with the idea anyway, im sure people will get involved

well ... i guess we have an instrument and a gui then m8 ... all we need now are some sounds ...

... scot ... where are you ...

... welcome to 2oo3 rob

as i mentioned in the other thread

prophet wrote:

munchkin wrote: A lot of these romplers use 32bit samples. How would we bring together all these huge sound files to make the KVR rompler? Also you have to loop them (well certain sounds anyway). Who would do that? I think a KVR rompler would be great but it needs some sort of plan (which I'm not clever enough to come up with). Any ideas? Well im sure if we went ahead with this plan, there would be a dedicated thread on it, so we would all chip in and help each other out. But i agree there would need to be some planning before any development began. We would need to find out exactly what features would be best. Although i quite like the idea of atmosphere, being able to load patches that contain two sounds, where you can also change one of the sounds, but unlike atmosphere, you can choose to keep that sounds settings or go with the new one. imagine something thats similar to atmosphere, but not in price and something that continually gets developed. We could have several too! one for pads/strings, one for leads and basses etc etc. everyone pooling in to work on it. no limits just to kvrists, the more people that make patches for it the better. one massive mf! im sure that would become something so big in itself that ben would even make a new forum for it on kvr! man i sure get carried away! check out the shot of the pro-phat concept vsti ive been working on. its not an actual vsti, just concept ideas, but it you look at the top ones, these could be developed for the kvr vsti's. http://www.2d-sign.co.uk/prophat.htm anyway, just some ideas.

Hey this sounds like a very cool idea

For the sound content, why not do someting different, instead of the usual pads, strings, pianos...etc.....? An idea I just thaught of:

"Abstract Vibes"
Sounds that are unusual but at the same time musically usefull.

I would love to help on the graphics/web/sound content side of things so gimme a yell if needed.

P.S Hey prophet I dig your designs on your site

Hey Rob, this is a great idea. Here is another idea: Since ROMplers by their nature are big, it might be difficult to provide a lot of content with the actual plug-in, so why not have a place where users can download sf2 files and presets as they like? Truth be told, most of these things are already in place with the patches page here, and the content for certain samplers, but this could create a common format which could be traded by KVR folks.

Since we at The Electronic Garden are planning to support sf2 with our own products, it would be an easy thing for us to donate some of our sf2 files to your cause.

excellent, just what we need

Well I really like this idea. Do presets in synth edit devices know to load up certain soundfonts/waves already?

If that is the case, we would need to know how to set up a directory structure so that the presets could automatically load up the relevant soundfont.

As Scot mentions, unless you want to go through the cost of actually producing a CD, this thing might be a little too big to expect people to download in one hit. You'd have to have a place where the soundfonts/waves are kept so that people could download the preset and relevant soundfont in one zip file.

Additionally, you'd have to make sure that people weren't breaching any sort of copyright in the distribution of soundfonts and waves. I'm sure you can appreciate that one.

Again - the designers should have the engine while designing patches. You should be designing patches to take full advantage of the engine. Then the user can tweak whatever the hell they want to tweak and import more if they wish.

Give it a flashy GUI. Market the HELL out of it...and then see if Computer Music becomes very interested in including it on a cover disk with a tutorial. They may suddenly take all the distribution worries out of our hands.

Well that last one is just me being wildly speculative...but anyway - that's a handful of thoughts off the top of my head.

I think this is a great idea (I mean Scot's). Maybe to make it really useful there should be a process to make the resources "Kvr approved". In other words a process to accept or reject sounds based on technical criteria (good recording, good loop points, good layering etc...).

By the way isn't there the good old threat of royalty free material. I guess Kvr does not want to be taken to court for distrubiting copyrighted sounds.
BUT others seem to get on with it (Hammersound). Maybe the trick is to flow down the responsibility to the person who originaly submitted the sounds.


Regards

PA

Just as an additional mention....

Crystal 2.x could also act as a magnificent rompler.

Sorry oh phuzzy one - not taking anything away from you at all. Just remembered that with sounfont import this baby could also do something similar.

Anyway "Marchons!"

I will be happy to contribute ludicrous patches for the rompler monster. If you do want to laugh at any of them - please do so publically.

I think the idea of a community effort to build a good sample library is great, but wasn’t the DS-404 created for just this purpose? It’s ”free” (you have to buy an issue of Computer Music to get it), it’s cross-platform (SynthEdit is, I believe, PC only), accepts wav:s /aiff:s and has a lot of tweakability.

Just a thought.

/Yoss

well everyone seems to like the idea. im sure we could get the ball rolling soon, and also have some great patches in no time at all. The great thing about it is that theres so many people that make patches for their favorite synths, but not everyone has that synth. but in this case everyone would/could.

imagine making a track using only a few instances of this rompler! the sounds would be limitless as there would always be new ones. Theyre could be banks for specifics like bass, leads etc. Also the actual vsti itself would always be having improvements to suit user requests. there could even be several people working on that itself, everyone just helping out in one way or another to make this the best it possibly can be. The good thing about using synth edit to build the engine is that theres already a good number of synth edit users around here, and growing, and synth edit is always improving, so who knows what this rompler could be capable of in the future.

It's true that the DS404 could be seen as very much a similar idea, but as it is exclusive to CM, it can't be distributed as a KVR ROMpler. We here at The Electronic Garden have plenty planned for the DS404, but the fact remains that not everyone has easy access to CM, so a downloadable KVR ROMpler is not at all a bad idea. There is plenty of room, I think, for all of these formats and samplers, and the availability of a variety of them gives the end user the choice about which one they might be comfortable with. Plus, the DS404 doesn't support the sf2 format, and basing the KVR ROMpler on that will allow users access to a wealth of sounds that they might not be able to obtain for the DS404. I see it as a nice addition, not a replacement (or competition) to the 404...

I think container (the sound playing instrument) and the content (the sounds) are totaly separate issues.

If people at Kvr think they should both be addressed then do it but separetly.

Personnaly I believe we all have many different options to play our sounds and I don't see much point in trying to do what a few companies employing highly skilled programers spend ages building. This is what the debate between proprietary formats and more accepted "standards" (sf2) is all about.

So to me the preferred avenue would be to agree on a standard (sf2 ?) plus an entry level alternative (.wav ?) and the selection process I proposed above and go ahead with sounds first.

However there is maybe an issue with sf2 builders. Vienna only works with computers equipped with a Creative sound card. Others I know of are not free. Unless there is already a reliable freeware sf maker it would be to me a priority to build one instead of a player.


Cheers

PA

i think the demo of chainer lets you make soundfonts. i think sf2 is definitely the best option. also you could make your samples using something i dont know, like kontakt or whatever, then use a program to convert them to sf2.

i like the idea of layering soundfonts tho to create a patch.

Honestly, I think Jorgen's CyberFree could be the best candidate. It's much more intuitive to do split and layer. The only major drawback is it only outputs mono sound... Someone should bug Jorgen to do a stereo KvR version.

kay ... time for a response [another long one coming up i reckon ] ...

noodells ... welcome aboard ... i think prophets got the gui so webstuff and sounds would be cool ... the idea about specific types of soundsets is cool [see below in my response to scot] ...

scot ... it would be AWESOME to have some of your sounds if you can spare a few ... since we plan to use open-format sounds i agree that player and soundsets should be seperate downloads ... with sounds and patches organised into type or genre [like noodells 'abstract vibes' ] ... also good point about ds-404 and .sf2 ...

caleb ... as long as we include a few basic sounds in the player download the directory structure will already be in place [synthedit vsts create their own folder in your vst directory if you include embedded files] so any new downloaded sounds would just need to be placed there too [and i will write a manual too honest ] ... youre right copyright of the sounds is gonna be tricky ... my gut reaction is to trust MOST of the folk who would get involved to be straight up about this but we will need to get this totally sorted before doing anything else ... flashy gui ... check out prophets website ... computer music eh heehee ...

PA ... if we get this rolling i would suggest a small panel of quality control peeps to check the submitted patches ... folk who know what theyre talking about ... copyright ... see above ... your later point about player versus content ... the point here is surely that the two are insparable as far as the propsed instrument are concerned ... the sounds will be designed purely for the k-v-rompler [or whatever] to take advantage of its particular structure and quirks [the sample itself might be quite bland but the use of the players parameters would turn it into something else entirely] ... good point about the availability of .sf2 makers but my opinion here [perhaps somewhat harshly] is that anyone who would be capable of making good enough patches would have this facility already ... having said that see my comments below ...

yossarian ... fair point ... but when it comes down to it were talking rompler [not sampler ... which the ds-404 definitely is] here ... a player that comes with a set of ready-made sounds that take advantage of whatever features we put in PLUS the opportunity to tweak them further ... also we are [i assume] talking in terms beyond just filters to mangle / create patches ... theres also the k-v-r factor ... it would be a community thing and the sounds would reflect what we want from such an instrument ...

thewall ... again good point but see my response to yossarian above ...

okay ... issues i see arising at the moment ...

> how we deal with the issue of copyright on the sounds and how we ensure all the available patches are 'clean' ... scot [or anyone else who knows] ... whats the position re ... distributing samples of your own presets [or even factory ones] from a favourite synth [soft or hard]

> the features we want from the player itself [in terms of basic capabilities and mangling / fsu stuff] ... might start a dedicated thread for this ...

> the format for the sample parts of the patches ... i was leaning towards .sf2 originally [and most folk here seem to agree] but the point PA made about who can actually build .sf2 files is a good one ... i can [but only cos my old second pc upstairs has an sbLIVE and vienna installed] ... how many others would be excluded from contributing because of this ... if we use .wav at least everyone with a sound editor could have a crack [and synthedit DOES support loop points in .wav files too] ... besides we all seem to be agreed that the sample is only half the story anyway ...

> who does what in the project [so far and unless anyone has any objections it seems to be ... me for the synthedit player ... prophet for the gui ... noodells for some website stuff ... and up to now me / noodells / scot for some sounds] ... again a dedicated thread seems appropriate ... no ...

> anything else

... again ... sorry for the long post ... but this could be SUCH a cool project ...

... welcome to 2oo3 rob

even though i am not a rompler-fan i really dig this idea here. thanks!
And it would be fun participating in spending some sounds...jaj.

Indeed - it would be a great community-thingie, and kvr has the power to really manage this. After all everybody here is some kind of sounddesigner - the synth freaks creating their sounds, the fx-weirdo´s mangling the shit, the beat-creators, the accoustic hillibillies....even the singers.
(imaging some donkey tugger "ah´s" and "oh´s", or a reg-phoenix boy-choir, or some shouts of paula....)

hmm..i hope chris ochre will give in some beats...hrhrhrhr.
And we have the people being able to design such a machine, and of course the people having the skills to programm it.
Wow - that could be a super synergy!!

erm......but one thing makes me worrying a bit, and i am sorry to throw it in, but: please please dont forget the 25% (wasnt it that much?!) macusers.

top idea!

go kvr, goooooooooo.....

putte

phuzz, fair point...then the most logical way to do it is bugging Jeff to do a true sampler module for Synthedit.
I'll raise all my limbs for that...

thewall ... with the synthedit sdk available now it neednt be jeff ... if only i had ANY clue about c++ ...

... any takers amongst you programmer geek types out there ...

... welcome to 2oo3 rob

I'm a bit confused as to the objectives of this project...

It seems that people are after two things:

1) a cross-platform KvR-branded rompler/player, with more than just playback
2) KvR-branded content, but still open

Now, do these necessarily have to be connected? If the rompler can load a few common formats, then it doesn't matter where the content comes from. If the content is an open format, then it can be used in any rompler/player the user desires.

The only real reason to conect the two would be to have a content-locked player, such that it can *only* be used in the "KvR Official ROMpler". But most people don't seem to want this.

On the outside, this looks like two separate projects. The content can be provided in .wav/.aiff files such that it can be used on all platforms in all players. The rompler itself would be made to consume an open file format (such as sf2), or have its own open file format with free utility for translating the content.

Or am I wrong?

- m

Copyright/legal issues:
My approach has always been to NEVER EVER sample a sample-based synth or VSTi, no matter how tempting the sound is, or how much you have altered it. In the hardware days of yore, this was an "accepted" practice for sample-providers, but I think in the current era, it's a recipe for trouble. There are enough sample-providers around here that can give or withold their permission, so I think we have little excuse not to either seek out such permission or just start from scratch. For synth sounds, it's not a big deal, but this could make it difficult for us to provide a lot of acoustic and electric sounds for the KVR ROMpler. For my part, I will try to donate "acoustic" type sounds as well as synth sounds. These will be recorded in our studio from the real instruments, so no legal issues will apply. It may mean that our selection will seem a bit thin or synth-heavy at first, but remember, the M1 only had 70 samples, the ESQ-1 less than thirty. I am sure that such legal restrictions will only serve to make the KVR ROMpler totally unique. Donkey's vocal samples or Fitch's 'cello, these are all unlike what is available for any other ROMpler out there. It's a great starting point. Many of us have microphones and the capabilities to record acoustic and electric sources. Let's put them to use!

This sounds more like a sampler to me.

scot ... excellent points all round

markleford / NEA ... ill try to clear this up and give what I THINK is the goal of this potential project ...

what i envisage [and i get the impression that most others who have expressed an interest agree] is something that is neither a 'traditional' rompler nor a straightahead sample player [although it could be used in both ways too] ...

... what we seem to be heading towards is a parallel to what sonic reality does with sampletank ... we will have an open-format [.wav / .sf2] sample player with a range of onboard effects and sound-mangling / fsu capabilites ... you COULD use this to process sound content from anywhere but we will also have [and this is the rompler-like part] a soundset built by the good folk here designed SPECIFICALLY for the k-v-rompler [each sound will be a combination of a sample and a preset for the players parameters] ... you COULD use the samplesets in other .wav / .sf2 compatible sampler but you wouldnt get the same sound that you would from our player ...

hope thats clearer ...

... were not trying to be big or clever here ... given the talent we have here it just seems like a nice community idea to have a sample-based vsti designed by us for us [though not exclusively so obviously ] ...

... salut rob

Aha. I thought was a VSTi with sampled waveforms that you could mangle. Then there would be releases of different modules, like : synth, strings and so on.

you were right then ... isnt that what i just said

... slainte rob

i think the idea of having different ones for different things like basses, or leads is cool. but in reality what difference would it make? people would still want to mould sounds from one with the other. So really to avoid confusion and to get more interest i think it should just be one big supersynth.

id be happy to design some sounds for it as well as graphic work.

I think if everyone was to put in a little something, they would get something much bigger out of it.

I’m with putte. The reason I brought up DS-404 was mainly the cross-platform compatibility issue. Again, I love the idea but seeing as this was conceived as a KvR community thing it seems a bit of a shame to lock out the Mac users.

Yossarian.....thanks.
Finally some support...
putte

Quote:

.. seeing as this was conceived as a KvR community thing it seems a bit of a shame to lock out the Mac users

Agreed, lets not lose ourselves in what is possible with synthedit

yossarian ... deep down i agree ... but so as to get this thing off the ground [the longer we wait the less likely it is that anything will happen] we took a decision to use synthedit [unless theres a REAL fast C++ coder out there who will write it from scratch] ... i already have the bones of the player built and using synthedit means no lengthy development / beta / bugfixing process [or at least not as long as a hand coded vst of this type] ...

... perhaps any mac-heads who want to get involved could supply raw samples for some of us to build patches from ... we could then resample the processed sounds and build a companion 'universal' sampleset for the mac-users [or anyone else really] ... not ideal i know but ...

... slainte rob

and


the idea is just some days old and you still decided with what you´ll realize it?
That makes me wonder.
Wasn´t it the kvr-rompler? Without us mac-users being able to get involved this isnt a kvr-rompler to me.
sorry, yes i am a bit
insulted now.
kvr stands for cross-platform.

putte

putte ... ...

i never meant to offend anyone ... what i perhaps should have said was that the idea [which is only hours old afaik] came from a suggestion by prophet on the NI rompler thread that someone could build a sample player using synthedit to play sound content designed by the k-v-r community [including the mac-heads should they so desire] ... since i have 2 or 3 synthedit sample player-manglers in various states of completion i just picked up the prophet ball and ran with it [enthusiasm can be a double-edged sword i guess ] ...

... if there was an easy way to make a cross-platform player id be all for it but as far as i can see even if we could find coders not involved in other projects we would be looking at a long development process ... using synthedit we can focus on whats really important in this type of project ... the sounds ...

... or perhaps i should just knock the whole idea on the head ... [i would rather not as there are many people besides me VERY positive about this idea] ...

... cheers rob

rob

sure - if its really not that easy to have it crossplatform then it should be done in SynthEdit. But who knows, maybe there´ll come some new ideas...
I absolutely agree that "we" shouldnt wait too long to realize this idea, but some days longer until the decision is made would be fine.
Hmm......yes, this crossplatform-idea isnt that easy to realize, i agree.

Now i hope that a clever mind will jump into this thread having the that would help.



cheers
putte

i actually had the idea a while ago but only just mentioned it again because of that ni topic and the way things seem to be going. I did originally think about doing it myself, using synth edit, ive already talked to some synthedit guys (ian webster for one) about it, but im not a synth edit user, so it would have taken me some time to make the vsti and do the graphics and a set of initial sounds. The reason i think it should be synth edit is because it can be done quickly and easily. and new features can be added easily (especially since synth edit is always developing). but going at it via raw code would take some planning, and development, much more testing, longer development for added/improved features etc. all for one thing, to make it available to mac users too.

i know its not right that something like this should be confined only to pc users, but any other way just seems far too unlikely to happen. If someone wants to take on all that coding work then great, but it will be a hard task to find someone with that dedication and time to commit to the project.

another thing, im actually well glad that rob picked up with it and is taking it somewhere, especially since he already has something which is right along the lines for what we want.

rob,

I perfectly understand – the last thing in the world I want is for this to turn into one of those pointless platform wars. You’ve come up with a great idea and I wish you all the luck with it.

For putte and me, all may not be lost. We won’t be able to set up the same patches as the PC folk (unless someone ports SynthEdit to Mac), but we’ll still be able to use the sample sets in a soundfont-compatible sampler and do our own mangling there.

For me, one good thing to come out of this thread is I discovered that there actually is a soundfont builder for the Mac:

www.bestsoftwaredesign.com

/Yoss

...ermm, having been embarrasingly reminded of this..

Quote:

talked to some synthedit guys (ian webster for one)

.. I feel I should offer to help out with this project, perhaps I coud sweep up or make tea

ian! synth edit isnt a bad thing?!

from yossarian ...

Quote:

For putte and me, all may not be lost. We won’t be able to set up the same patches as the PC folk (unless someone ports SynthEdit to Mac), but we’ll still be able to use the sample sets in a soundfont-compatible sampler and do our own mangling there. For me, one good thing to come out of this thread is I discovered that there actually is a soundfont builder for the Mac

... as i said earlier ...

Quote:

perhaps any mac-heads who want to get involved could supply raw samples for some of us to build patches from ... we could then resample the processed sounds and build a companion 'universal' sampleset for the mac-users [or anyone else really] ... not ideal i know but ...

... so we get two k-v-r 'products' ... a [sadly] pc-only vst instrument with its own dedicated soundsets ... and a universal sampleset from that instrument ...





... slainte rob

i just wanted to say that i will send some soundfonts in when the details are clear

I would love to be able to use my SonicSynth sounds without SampleTank... (Since I can't even get it to load a sound on my PC without a crash - Although, Motu MAS version works fine on my Mac...)

Can we have this creation import SampleTank format? Maybe Chicken Sys could create a free conversion util. as a contribution to our community project...

Rock

rockum wrote:

I would love to be able to use my SonicSynth sounds without SampleTank... (Since I can't even get it to load a sound on my PC without a crash - Although, Motu MAS version works fine on my Mac...) Rock

sonic station my friend

what ever happened with the university of iowa samples? did anyone ever make any patches out them? I guess the download would be too huge, but from what I heard that university had nice sounds

nt

I can offer samples to be coverted unless someone knows of a soundfont encoder that works on XP?

Let me know if there's any other way I can help.

Mac designers, if a common specification was made and the artwork was shared along with soundfonts, wouldn't it be possible to create a VSTi? I thought there was a program that was able to do so but it's not something I follow.

In any case the design process and routing should be made available to Mac developers that might want to recreate the ideas leading to a K-v-R rompler.

Mr. Tunes © wrote:

rockum wrote: I would love to be able to use my SonicSynth sounds without SampleTank... (Since I can't even get it to load a sound on my PC without a crash - Although, Motu MAS version works fine on my Mac...) Rock sonic station my friend

Yes, Rock, this is your solution. There is no way to export out of Sampletank though even with Translator (but going into ST is possible).

This idea is intriguing. But, it's a can of worms that you all may or may not realize. Also, some liability would fall on Ben since he owns K-v-R (if you wanted to call it anything associated with K-v-R community etc.). Definitely listen to Scot. He knows how to play it safe. Sample your non-sample based synths to your heart's content. I don't think you'll have any problems there. Also, Fitch's cello and Donkey's voice (hmmm, I had the same idea me self ) sure as long as someone has their full written permission (although they are so cool you'd not have to worry but... SOMEbody would have to have that covered you know... probably Ben or whoever is held responsible in case someone cries "I want to be paid" later...in fact, there should be a form that every sound provider signs that says they verify that the sounds are completely original, not sampled from another rompler, not stolen etc and that "whoever" has complete permission to use the samples without any expectation of payment.).

A part of me thinks... don't you people have jobs? How do you have so much time to create such a thing for nothing? I want to know who is going to loop the samples (what sucker will do that! ha ha). Boy... this is interesting but realistically it might be difficult to really get all of the rompler-like instruments in this thing. Scot, if you record all of your acoustic instruments and just give it away in this thing you are nuts dude... but I an immensely likable nut at least (and you'll have a lot more friends... ).

Depending on what you guys come up with, I might even be able to contribute something. My only reservation would be whether to associate with it if there is any hint of samples in it that came from any suspicious source. Of course, no one asked me (or probably expects that I would help since I do this for a living) but... I don't know. I am also a part of the community here and... maybe I'd just do some patch programming for it to chip in or something.

We're doing a bunch of free sound downloads for esoundz this year and maybe we'll support this K-v-Rompler (good name?) if it works. Good luck with this project.


Of course, when Ben comes back he might have a mad cow when he reads all of this.

Yeah well, definitely the legal issues worry me the most. That really is a big deal.

Also, I've got to admit, I'm tending to lean towards Putte on the No Mac front. I very really think about MAC users because I'm not one and have never been one and never intend to be one. But if it's a community effort then the community should reap the rewards and although we could make a universal sampleset - could we really give MAC users the advantage of our patch programming? And who would go through the monstrous effort of trying to resample and reloop patches using this engine when they've already gone through the effort of looping their samples for use in this engine in the first place?

It's such a great "open source" project to get involved in though that it would be a damnable pity if it stopped because it's not possible to port to MAC. Would it be possible to employ the talents of a PC and MAC programmer to code these things from the ground up using a prototype made in SynthEdit? We would obviously have to agree on the final design - then we could be working on the content (which would take forever anyway) while the MAC version and then PC version is coded.

As soon as the MAC version is created and passes muster, the MAC users can start on their patch making.

In the end you'd have two engines which would use less CPU than a SynthEdit creation anyway. Furthermore, the coding could be open source itself to get multiple coders involved.

And I love Scot's idea of going out and sampling - this is a fantastic way in which we could be learning all about sampling as well while avoiding the legal pitfalls of using "freeware" soundfonts.

I suggest our patch programming should probably concerntrate more on the bizarre sounds because we may not compete terribly well trying to recreate a grand piano

This should be a community experiment in which all can get involved. At worse we'll get a SynthEdit creation with some interesting patches. At best we'll get two VSTi (MAC and PC) which has some marvellous and interesting content that is free to all.

I swear if I had any ability at C++ programming I'd be jumping in on the PC version. I might even take down my Learn C++ book and start learning again. But I'm in there for adding some interesting sample content mixed with sounds my synths can produce.

I'm late as usual! This is the best idea I've ever seen.

Quote:

wasn’t the DS-404 created for just this purpose?

Samplers have presets as well but I love the idea of having inbuilt sounds that you can layer and don't have to set up first. The interface could be a synth styled interface which I don't think any sampler does justice to.

Quote:

you'd have to make sure that people weren't breaching any sort of copyright in the distribution of soundfonts and waves.

Well if anyone thinks that copyright has been breached then they can request that the sounds are taken off the site. They don't have to resort to litigation first do they?

Quote:

The great thing about it is that theres so many people that make patches for their favorite synths, but not everyone has that synth. but in this case everyone would/could.

This is exactly what I envision the rompler being - a universal synth. Imagine being able to load just one synth with multiple outs and playing any sound you desire. Only an open source rompler could achieve this.

Quote:

Unless there is already a reliable freeware sf maker it would be to me a priority to build one instead of a player.

I've never tried creating an sf. Is it complicated? In fact I've never had a go at making instruments for a sampler either. I've always used presets. Always a first time I suppose. I don't have Vienna. Is there something free that is straight forward to use? I'm willing to have a go. But what about Mac owners?

Quote:

i think sf2 is definitely the best option. also you could make your samples using something i dont know, like kontakt or whatever, then use a program to convert them to sf2.

Will we be able to make 32bit sounds and is this necessary? Atmosphere and Stylus have 32bit options.

Quote:

Wasn´t it the kvr-rompler? Without us mac-users being able to get involved this isnt a kvr-rompler to me.

What about making sounds available in WAV so that they can be converted to Mac format? Trouble is wouldn't we have to develop a way of transfering the looping data along with the wav's? I think that getting something going on the PC side is a step in the right direction. Until someone can make a cross platform rompler.

Quote:

For me, one good thing to come out of this thread is I discovered that there actually is a soundfont builder for the Mac:

Maybe this solves the Mac/PC issue?

Quote:

(imaging some donkey tugger "ah´s" and "oh´s", or a reg-phoenix boy-choir, or some shouts of paula....)

Oooh err missus!

The reason I love the idea of a rompler is the fact you can use presets - to be honest I hardly ever program sounds because I don't have the know how or the time. I also don't create instruments in samplers - I just load presets and then tweak them. I'm willing to bet many other musicians don't have the time to create every sound from scratch.

But I am willing to have a go and contribute some sounds to this project because the work load of creating presets is then spread over many people. We would then have more time to just tweak these sounds and get on with making music.

hmmmnnn ...

squids wrote ...

Quote:

This idea is intriguing. But, it's a can of worms that you all may or may not realize. Also, some liability would fall on Ben since he owns K-v-R (if you wanted to call it anything associated with K-v-R community etc.) ... [SNIP] ... in fact, there should be a form that every sound provider signs that says they verify that the sounds are completely original, not sampled from another rompler, not stolen etc and that "whoever" has complete permission to use the samples without any expectation of payment.)

excellent point from someone who knows the score dave ... there is really no need to attach the k-v-r name to this project [although it would be nice for the community if ben would agree to this] ... it could just be an 'open-source' project that happens to involve a few k-v-regulars which would keep ben and the site away from any legal issues ... i think your idea of the sample 'clearance' form is good ... if we go ahead with this we ABSOLUTELY NEED to make sure its as above-board as possible ...

squids also wrote ...

Quote:

Boy... this is interesting but realistically it might be difficult to really get all of the rompler-like instruments in this thing. Scot, if you record all of your acoustic instruments and just give it away in this thing you are nuts dude...

from what others have said i dont think we will be trying to cover the acoustic / realistic instruments angle [you and others kinda have that covered ] ... we seem to be heading towards a more esoteric ... off-kilter ... left-field set of sounds [of course ... it all depends what people submit i guess] ...

squids wrote this too ...

Quote:

Depending on what you guys come up with, I might even be able to contribute something. My only reservation would be whether to associate with it if there is any hint of samples in it that came from any suspicious source ... maybe I'd just do some patch programming for it to chip in or something. We're doing a bunch of free sound downloads for esoundz this year and maybe we'll support this K-v-Rompler (good name?) if it works

how cool would it be to have some squids sounds in there ... obviously [as i said above] the sample thing is the issue we need to have watertight ... ANYTHING you could contribute to the project would be MORE than welcome dave ... as for the name ... so far KEVLAR seems to be favourite ...

squids again ...

Quote:

good luck with this project

thanks m8 ...

caleb wrote ...

Quote:

Yeah well, definitely the legal issues worry me the most. That really is a big deal

as above ... me too ... but there must be a reasonable way to sort it ... any legal types out there who could word the kind of document that squids suggested

caleb also wrote ...

Quote:

Also, I've got to admit, I'm tending to lean towards Putte on the No Mac front ... [SNIP] ... Would it be possible to employ the talents of a PC and MAC programmer to code these things from the ground up using a prototype made in SynthEdit? We would obviously have to agree on the final design - then we could be working on the content (which would take forever anyway) while the MAC version and then PC version is coded

ever get the feeling you should never have started something ... i REALLY dont know what the answer is here ... my capabilities dont run to C++ coding but i can build in synthedit [second-class citizen of vst city i know ] so i took up prophets challenge thats all ... no platform prejudice intended ... if this DOES become a sticking point i have to admit that ill either be tempted to bin the whole idea [as it stands now] or move it away from k-v-r where it wont be such an issue ... both options WOULD BE A REAL SHAME I THINK ... perhaps removing [as squids said] any association with k-v-r other than the people involved would be a compromise ...

caleb again ...

Quote:

And I love Scot's idea of going out and sampling - this is a fantastic way in which we could be learning all about sampling as well while avoiding the legal pitfalls of using "freeware" soundfonts

THIS is kinda what i saw as the point of the project [aside from its obvious end result] ... its more about the sounds and what we can learn than doing the platform wars thing again ...

caleb still ...

Quote:

I suggest our patch programming should probably concerntrate more on the bizarre sounds because we may not compete terribly well trying to recreate a grand piano ... This should be a community experiment in which all can get involved. At worse we'll get a SynthEdit creation with some interesting patches. At best we'll get two VSTi (MAC and PC) which has some marvellous and interesting content that is free to all

agreed ... and ... agreed ...

yet more caleb ...

Quote:

I'm in there for adding some interesting sample content mixed with sounds my synths can produce

cheers ... ill add you to the [ever-growing ] list ...

munchkin ... glad you like prophets idea ... any contributions welcome [and all the better if you learn about sample-building in the process] ... ill add you to the list too ...

kay ... BOTTOM LINE ... as caleb said this will just be a community experiment [not any kind of competitor for similar commercial products] ... i never really saw it as anything else ... i REALLY want to get this off the ground but we need to get over one or two hurdles [platform worries and legal issues surrounding samples] before we do anything more ...

rather than talking in circles around this [like we normally do ] ... anyone got any concrete suggestions

... i would like to make a definite start on the project at the weekend [and i know prophet is eager to start on the gui stuff ] ...

... slainte rob

ps ... sorry for another mega-post

Well regardless of what may or may not happen on the cross-platform issue, I think we should at least build a prototype in Synth Edit if nothing else. The fact of the matter is that it's much easier to start off with.....perhaps there might be some development interest at a later time and if we do this well it should take so bloody long that the MAC guys will still have time to contribute significantly.

As I said earlier I would prefer to build to the synth engine rather than just make samples and try to make them fit later on so I really think let's decide the features of this thing as you're addressing in the other thread.

Give me the engine and I'll start to build patches. I may even try to resample my patches to create a library for MAC users. Now I'm off to the other thread to contribute to the engine.

i suspected that when squids read about this he would be slightly negative about it, im just waiting for spectrum to say something too, since these guys are effected by this in one way or another, although im sure it wouldnt cut into their sales and i in no way have anything against their opinions because they do have more knowledge than anyone on these kinds of things.

We've only just got the ball rolling with some ideas, so i think its going to take a week or two before we have something more solid, with more people offering their services and so on. Everybody seems to want to get involved in some way. I definitely think theres no turning back, even if Rob and i had to develop it ourselves. If Bens not for having the KVR association, thats no reason to stop it from being a comminity based synth, although im sure any association would only result in more visitors to this site and the potential for more advertising for him would cetainly look tasty! but the kvr asociation isnt as important as the community one.

I could see it being released with a limited soundset (which would be completely legal) and by year end having a soundset which is off the scale, although theres the possibility that some sounds (as squids and others have mentioned) may not be legal, someone may have sampled a sample based instrument, but then that wouldnt effect Ben or anyone else since it wouldnt be part of the official soundset that comes with the synth. Do you follow?? theres so many sounds out there already for things that have been sampled from illegal sources, but you cant go suing native instruments because their sampler can play them can you. because they are not distributing them (and i dont think this community based synth should be distributed with all of the sounds that become available either)

If we had an official list of hardware and software you could create sounds from (similar to the atmosphere list of equipment used) this could be distributed with the vsti as part of the documentation, then this would give users more peace of mind having the knowledge of what they can or can't sample.

Of course there should be rules to follow when creating sounds if you want them hosted somewhere, by stating clearly what sources you used when creating them etc, but i really dont think we should be signing stuff, since that would really put people off from making sounds and if anything make an underground scene for the synth, which would only make people more likely to go on and purposely sample things that are sample based anyway.

As for the mac issue, well as far as im aware no one has until now offered to do the programming for either mac or pc, but then its still very early days. but that doesnt mean that in the long term the project wouldnt take on a new form, if the synth edit creation got real big which im sure it will, im sure we would see programmers getting together to make a cross platform version in the future, since these things always happen within a community. So i would think that initially this would be a pc release but theres very likely to be a new cross platform version in the future, since we're not using any kind of synthesis, these are all sample based.

There are lots of little things that need thought out, but theres no way we shouldnt continue with this. I know for a fact that i wont stop!

Prophat

wow

strange, but i really feel somehow *proud* of what i can read in this thread.
Rob and prophet (and others of course) - I have huge respect for this challenge you/we´re going to start here!
And i say this even though my mac´s getting a little bit sad helping me typing this posting here....

I meanwhile also think that you should start with SynthEdit, ´cause this would mean that the start could be right now - and that´s good for the idea.

The contribution i want to make is to create a ...erm.... "putte-bank".... ... - not containing instruments, but selfmade loops and sounds. Like a track on a sample-cd.
(including beats, atmosphere´s, short one-shot sounds, processed vocals, and of course my humanBeatBox)

This would be possible, right?

Ahh....keep on kvr´ians, what a great idea!

About the asscoiation to kvr:

We all know that this place got quite "known" in the net, and that ben really managed to create something special.
And beside all the technology-news and facts, and the threads in the forums about it, it began someday that this place became a space for the people being musicians, and the musicians being people.

Thats why i think that the name "kvr" should be with this project. it seems to be an unique idea, and this idea grew because we point our browser to http://www.kvr-vst.com day by day. (even hour by hour... )
Hrhrhr, my english....i hope you folks get what i mean.

jaj, dankesehr

putte

Okay, so you know I'd chime in on this thread. But, it's not because I am worried (bless ya mate ). If all of the other sound developers can't make a Sonic Synth unless they take a few years I don't think you will either. But, regardless, this is just another tool you are making. Apart from what I might do to support it, the only way to get the real sounds SR makes it get SR products so this project is not a threat nor are my competitor's products really. (They don't have the same sounds we have- that's the beauty of sample recording based products).

So, I'd love to see you guys do this if you really want to spend the time for no money like that. It's a lot of time though and theoretically it's much better when you have more people chip in their efforts but then you face the too many cooks in the kitchen effect potentially. Maybe some of you have experienced this with a band where everyone thinks they are the best songwriter?

Anyway, I don't want to discourage you guys. But, if you really want to make this happen then you'll probably have to make some compromises. My suggestion is that you do what you know you can do. You seem to generally feel that it should be PC and use SynthEdit... so maybe you should do that then and not worry about the Mac which will be tough because it also has two OS to deal with right now (and I love my Macs so I am not anit Mac... just be realistic that's all).

If your rompler reads SF2 then it is very smart for your sound set that comes with it to be solid tight and 100% legal. Like a wise one has said in this thread, just because it can play SF2s out there that maybe suspect in origin does not hold you guys liable! So compatibility with a popular format like that will help you throw gobs of sounds from all over the place into it. Of course, you guys can do that anyway with how many software samplers on the market??? (perhaps you should think like me and just turn a specific already made sampler into a rompler....save you a lot of trouble M8s... but not as much pride and fun I know. Hey, I face the same sacrifice!).

Really though, if you want to make the software part with Prophet's cool GUI and have your stamp on it I think it might be best to organize it amongst the main people involved and then have contributions from others. Someone has to take responsibility for the product and that person should have clearance from everyone involved just to be safe.

We give away some free sounds on esoundz.com (and our new demo CD) so when you guys are done I may do a special version of these sounds in your format and give you permission to give them away with it (or maybe have you link to esoundz for the free download or whatever works out to be best).

I'm still not seeing the need for an entirely new player just to say it's somehow KvR-centric. Like Squids says, there's going to be compromise, and I say this will be the biggest point of contention, as everybody has their little druthers so far as it comes to GUI/features/etc.

Why not just make a series of KvR SoundFonts?

Or license someone else's player format. How 'bout seeing if we could set up a deal with SampleTank to make sounds for ST-FREE? Or make a pHATfactory module with Bitshift's blessing?

- m

markleford>

Quote:

there's going to be compromise, and I say this will be the biggest point of contention, as everybody has their little druthers so far as it comes to GUI/features/etc.

true ... but this is why i want to fix a featureset for the player [see other thread] before we do anything else ...

as squids [i think] mentioned earlier ... there needs to be someone [or a small group of people ... maybe 3 ... one for the player ... one for the gui ... one for the soundset ] who takes overall responsibility for this project ... im happy to coordinate [perhaps with some help as outlined above] if everyone involved is ok with that ... seems to have happened by default pretty much anyway ...

... as for saying there doesnt need to be a new player to make a k-v-r-centric soundset ... true ... but im sure ive mentioned before that this is kinda missing the point ... sure we could [and perhaps should ... as a seperate project] just do a set of k-v-r sounds for whatever sampler / player ... but ... [other than perhaps sampletankfree] there isnt [that i can think of] a freeware rompler out there and it just seems a nice project to do ... id be building synthedit stuff anyway ... this just gives me the motivation to try and do something that little extra while developing some new skills [some dsp stuff ... project coordination ... diplomacy ... ] along the way ... im sure prophet feels the same way ... he would no doubt like some exposure for his graphics skills ... as he said ... we could go ahead and do this between us anyway but it just seemed cool to try and get some community involvement given the cool and talented friends weve all made here ...

... seems to me weve got enough of a team together already to do this with or without attaching it to the k-v-r name [i would rather with if ben is willing when he gets back ... but if its gonna be a sticky issue ... ] ...

... sorry for rambling on again but this needs making clear [which im obviously not doing very well today ] ...

... slainte rob

eXpeRIMentFOUR wrote:

... sorry for rambling on again but this needs making clear [which im obviously not doing very well today ] ...

That's okay, I'm just being a bit thick...

- m

i think the point of it really comes down to the fact that we have so many talented people around here who could make some great sounds. not everyone has $400 to spend on a vsti that has a locked and limited soundset. Everyone collaborating on the one thing ends up helping make that one thing something really amazing, and we all get something back in return.

also, how often do you read things like 'virtual guitarist is good, but you cant make your own riffs, its just so limited' but imagine if some people from around here sampled their guitars for this rompler, its just doing things the way 'we' want them. and at the end of the day, its all free.

something like this which is sure to turn out big isnt a bad thing at all. If you want something, just ask for it, or do it, thats the whole point of it! if theres a sound you really want thats not in the rompler, ask for it and someone will surely make a patch! thats whats so great about it, and kvr!

E4 and P5 (short hand for your nicks) seem to have it coming together. Plus, you can tell this project would be more fun if they could make something custom rather than just use an existing sample player.

By the way, forget Sampletank FREE as that probably wouldn't happen for a lot of reasons but the biggest one is how would you author the sounds? IK barely lets developers have those tools so... just being realistic here.

The ideas sound good though. You want to share samples of guitar riffs you like and different sounds you can make. That is a cool community thing. So, probably what you should do is try to make your own sample player with the features and editing the way you want and then since it's free everyone can use it to author sounds to each other. Of course, a community of Kontakt owners or HALion owners could already do such a thing but with yours being free that means that anyone could be involved and that's nice. The only thing is- how much better are these other sample players that have built in DSP, HD Streaming, Pitch and Time stretching etc.? You'd have to wonder if the kind of sample player you'll make will be something everyone will really use or is it only for those that can't afford a good sample player?

On the otherhand, like E4 said, some of you would want to make this in SynthEdit anyway so if it's a project that motivates you that says it all. Have fun with it guys.

Well I think if I'm contributing sounds for this special engine then I'll try to resample them back into sf2 or maybe 404 format so that MAC users can still use them. That's probably a hell of a lot harder to realise than I think at the moment but I'm at least going to try to give MAC users some benefit out of this.

Meanwhile, I've re-opened my Teach Yourself C++ book. God I'm a tosser!

caleb

Well over the weekend I started learning C++ again. Hehehehehe.

I got about 150 pages through one book and another 50 pages through another book.

I'm a freak I tells ya. I still think in some strange way that I would never cut it as a programmer, but I do really like trying to understand computer languages both conceptually and practically.

Anyway, I kind of got stuck on a Linked list implementation. God, I wish I could have my own personal C++ tutor that didn't cost me anything and could help me out when I get hopelessly stuck.

The other thing is I have no idea how much I have to know about C++ before I can start trying anything with any of the development kits out there.

This post is just an excuse for me to waffle I think.

Hey Caleb, you're def waffling

i know what you mean tho. Slightly OT, i had bought Dreamweaver and book on HTML with grand visions of buliding the most amazing website! i learned about 20 basic HTML lines then gave up, cos i realised that most people just want to go to your site, find the tunes and download them. Not sit around waiting for 10 mins while your index pages comes up Now i just use a free app to do my simple s(h)ite

I may get back into it soon, to make some improvements, but im very lazy

Keep up the studying anyway, its prob gonna be worth it in the end.

Im looking forward to hearing your sounds for the rompler Krim

Why thank you kind sir, im looking forward to doing them I think this could be a top notch collaboration, what with all the talent here at KVR

how you gonna build those patches krim ... if you havent got the patience to suss vienna out ...





... or have you calmed down a bit now ...

... slainte rob

You wouldnt let it lie........



I am in a sea of tranquility now

I would gladly contribute with some patches (allready made quite a lot of EXS patches that I don't find being too bad, at least not all of them), but sorry, I wouldn't use the thing if it was based on SynthEdit at all.

Why?

- Platform compatibility. Yes, I am one of the few Logic/Win users that will get a Mac one day. And I collaborate with Mac users allready (it's allready enough of a pain that there's no DR-008/Mac).

- Impossibility of doing proper backups! This has allways been the MAIN issue when it came to sample based stuff. I need to be able to copy everything used in a song into my song folder to back thing up properly.
This is also one of the reasons why I won't use Crystal as a soundfont loader. Call me an anal bastard - right, I am, regarding the backup issue.
Was the first thing I was complaining about when HALion came out (it offered no solution at all) and it's something still not great with the EXS - but at least it's possible. Searching for each and every soundfont you used in a song manually is just no viable option for me.

I think that's about it...

Sascha

sascha ...

> do you mean the instrument not remembering the soundfont used or not saving the soundfont itself in the song folder ...

> if its the former ... synthedit vst instruments DO now remember the soundfont used when saved with the song [if theyre built right anyway ] ...

> if the latter ... what i do is make sure any samples / soundfonts / patches used in a song are copied manually into the song folder on my hd at the end of a session ... that way when i finally archive the track everything is all together ... for someone who is self-confessedly anal about backups this shouldnt be too much of a hassle ...

> slainte rob

eXpeRIMentFOUR wrote:

> if the latter ... what i do is make sure any samples / soundfonts / patches used in a song are copied manually into the song folder on my hd at the end of a session ... that way when i finally archive the track everything is all together ... for someone who is self-confessedly anal about backups this shouldnt be too much of a hassle ...

Well Rob, I often have a LOT of sampler patches loaded in some songs (up to 20 or so). Would indeed be a time consuming process to sort them out all manually, considering that what's left from my SF2s is organized in multiple subfolders as well.
- Open VSTi GUI to see which one is loaded.
- Scroll to the instrument in your SF2 directoríes. Sometimes similarily named SF2 make that even harder.
- Copy SF2.
- Paste SF2 into song folder.
- Repeat 20 x...

The EXS actually is great regarding that aspect (due to it's straight integration into Logic). There's a function called "backup all used and active instruments in current song" which will just copy all patches and samples into your song folder, no matter how much patches you used.
No room for user errors either...

Cheers,
Sascha

I'm a little late to the party here, but I'd just like to add something:

given that there is, justifiably, a number of people here who are concerned about cross platform compatibility, wouldn't it make some sense to define a standard for file format and program format before doing anything else?

If a good, open source, framework for patches and banks is created then anyone could take this information, download a sound bank and build their own version of the KvR Rompler for whatever platform. Furthermore, maybe some of the big boys would see it in their interests to make their own stuff compatible with the format, even if only as a one way deal.

The format could basically dictate say, what a VSTi needs to offer to be classed as compliant. Obvioulsy this would include the base envelope functionality, but would also state how many voices a Rompler must allow per patch, and what FX need to be included.

For the sounds themselves, I think Scot Solida made the point best when he mentioned how few base sounds generally come with the average Rompler. 255 base samples (which really don't need to be all that long) would provide enough capability to keep most people busy for quite some time.

Hi Valley,

We've covered this and decided that the only way to move forward is to build with what we have which unfortunately is PC only - Synth Edit.

However, the good news is that the SynthEdit creation then becomes a prototype which I'm guessing will be thrown open to the public. Then anyone who is hardy enough in the code department can tackle the project if they wish.

I'm frantically teaching myself C++ as we speak but I know I'm kidding myself thinking I'll be able to do this any time soon. If I were miraculously able to do it however, I would only be able to do a PC version anyway and it would need it to be ported to the MAC by someone who knew how. I would make the patch system accessible to the MAC "porter" so that it could implemented in the MAC version. I too would be only interested in cross-platform patch support.

It's very important to stay aware of the fact that this really is a pipe dream for me. The likelihood of me developing the skills to do this in the next year or so are quite slim. I'm more likely to be able to coordinate the project (development lifecycle, testing, communications) than actually constructing it. But I'm letting myself dream at this stage.

I think its just so cool that your totally into this caleb. Youve always got good things to say about it

I take it that SynthEdit offers no method by which a manual file format could be constructed then?

Is the Synth Edit file fxp format fairly well documented (excuse my ignorance, I've never used it)? If so, then a 'standard' could still be defined, and a synth edit project built to mimick this standard. Then, when a suitable ROM wavetable and enough patches are ready, a simple file converter could be written to convert the ROM set to our own standard.

From there anyone could pick up that set and use it in their own creations, be that for PC, Mac, Linux or whatever.

I'd be happy to help with writing a file format converter if any of this is possible and seems like a good idea to people.

The problem is valley that being able to convert patch settings to the MAC is pointless if you don't have an engine that can use the patches.

I haven't seen the prototype yet but I believe this is going to be more than just case of having envelope and filter settings. I believe the guys are trying to make something that has a fairly unique set of features that would not be duplicatable which is why this is a ROMpler rather than a sampler.

The base .sf2 files will be accessible but these will only be such a small part of the story and you're unlikely to be able to mimic any of the ROMpler patches in your MAC samplers.

Now I suppose there is a way (I don't know) to convert the fxb settings along with the sf2s into something that is cross platform - but as I said - unless you've got something that can mimic the more esoteric functionality of this ROMpler I don't see what benefit it could be.

I have said that I will try to resample the patches I make for the ROMpler in a format that MAC users find useful - probably sf2 and 404, but I have to warn you that this is going to be a huge pain in the bum for me and I can't guarantee success. I'm not a pro like Scot and Squids so I can only do the best I can do.

If I become a genious at resampling and producing MAC compatible sets I may try my hand at reproducing the "official" soundset that comes with the ROMpler, but I can't guarantee that either. Squids was not kidding when he said this stuff is very time consuming and difficult. I have been known to fail miserably with the most simple of sampling tasks.

At this point I am committed to giving MAC users as much benefit from this project as I can - even if it's giving patches to ComputerMusic in 404 format to be freely downloadable.

I suggest we wait till we have the prototype and see what the construction is made up of and then we can see what's possible and what's not.

prophet wrote:

I think its just so cool that your totally into this caleb. Youve always got good things to say about it

That prophet. I like it because it's a genuine attempt to produce a community tool which benefits the community that's creating it.

I think it's absolutely fantastic that people would want to do that for their fellow computer musicians. How can you not get involved in some way?

I've been profiting from this community for a very long time. I'm quite happy to be involved in something like this, even if my contribution is quite a small one. I think the competition for the "official" soundset is well-and-truly on. I want to get one of my patches on there.

On the other hand, it doesn't really matter. There will be plenty of opportunities to produce soundsets for this thing whether it's an "official" patch or just another one you can download as extra.

Anyway, this might really give me some chops in sampling and patch design. Goodstuff really.

Well, I've only just seen this thread. I haven't ventured out of the Sonic Reality forum for a few weeks! My reactions were as follows:

1st reacton: Cool.....a KvR community VSTi. Nice idea. Like it!
2nd reaction: ROMpler eh?.....hmm...I like them, but then I use Sonic Synth, so what possible use could this have to me?
3rd reaction: Ahhh....think of all the user-created sounds and patches you could have!
4th reaction:...but if you're just using soundfonts, you could just get a KvR collection of them, and then load them into whatever soundfont player you've got. What's the point of the ROMpler?
5th reaction: Ahhh....but this would mean everyone would have a standard player, where soundfonts could be specifically tailored to the VSTi and made into patches. Ok, this could be done for say Virtual Sampler, but then not everyone has this, and a ROMpler (like Sampletank) is something that should be very easy to use, so you can just load up a patch and go without fiddling around.

So, eventually I saw the merits of the idea!

I see the key to this thing being more of a niche in patches it's geared towards (alth