> from the front page at www.virtualsoundstudio.com [ hope you dont mind me doing this crim ] ...

Quote:

2003-01-29 Ganymed, Vivaldi and Vivaldi MX discontinued Sadly, just shortly after Vivaldi MX was released as public beta, Stefan has removed all his synths from distribution. The official statement from his website: On Wednesday, January 29, I have decided to discontinue the development of my free software and removed it from my website. To avoid any speculations or wrong impressions, I can assure you that this decision does nothing have to do with the company I work for - nobody has forced or even suggested me to do this. It was my own free decision. The reason for this is rather simple: I'm fed up with beeing a freeware developer. The majority of people seems to think that if you don't pay for something, then it is worth nothing. People were showing a very ignorant and arrogant attitude towards me and my software and seemed to think, if they can get it for free, they don't need to show the slightest amount of respect for me or what I do. That's basically why.

> slainte rob

sad - though his statement was impressing.... ouff.

putte

well i guess we can forget that FM oscillator for Synthedit then.. boo.


i wonder what happened tho.. hmmmmm

SO SO true and sad..

of coarse when you release stuff to the public like that you will get all the assholes as well.

you could infact have a newsgroup on yahoo and only let regged users get at it (like crystal)

I see guys posting plugins and then 100's of views and not one single reply, or thanks..

it's like a school classroom, it only takes a few wankers
to ruin it for the rest..

best of luck Mr.

eXpeRIMentFOUR wrote:

> from the front page at www.virtualsoundstudio.com [ hope you dont mind me doing this crim ] ... Quote: 2003-01-29 Ganymed, Vivaldi and Vivaldi MX discontinued Sadly, just shortly after Vivaldi MX was released as public beta, Stefan has removed all his synths from distribution. The official statement from his website: On Wednesday, January 29, I have decided to discontinue the development of my free software and removed it from my website. To avoid any speculations or wrong impressions, I can assure you that this decision does nothing have to do with the company I work for - nobody has forced or even suggested me to do this. It was my own free decision. The reason for this is rather simple: I'm fed up with beeing a freeware developer. The majority of people seems to think that if you don't pay for something, then it is worth nothing. People were showing a very ignorant and arrogant attitude towards me and my software and seemed to think, if they can get it for free, they don't need to show the slightest amount of respect for me or what I do. That's basically why. > slainte rob

I wonder though, why he isn't going commercial then...

because then he will just get cracked..

a fine peak into the way things could end up..

no denying that.

Greed is a horrid word.

c_huelsbeck wrote:

I wonder though, why he isn't going commercial then...

Suggestions:

- Sell the stuff for $10 and hope it would get better and maybe afford a 6 pack now and then.

Or

- Put the time in energy into merging his projects into one great synth and make it commercial.

Of course we all love the free stuff, but I can understand what he's saying.

It's hard enough trying to do something good in this world--for its own sake, without any hope of remuneration--without also having to contend with selfish little teenie-bop types who have not yet realized they are projecting their own insecurities onto other people. But we can't let the turkeys get us down. Keep it in perspective.

Rumpelrausch Taips, if you are reading this, please remember that what you are doing is appreciated. Hockinfinger, Glenn Olander, et al.: you, too! As is Stefan, whose work will live on even if he's understandably fed up with doing it.

Diane

topaz wrote:

because then he will just get cracked.. a fine peak into the way things could end up.. no denying that. Greed is a horrid word. c_huelsbeck wrote: I wonder though, why he isn't going commercial then...

See, that's a misconception... being commercial doesn't mean that you need a copy protection. But for a developer it's easier to deal with their real customers than with all the free trolls out there. If somebody uses it for free, just show him the finger if he has a problem... if it's a registered customer, at least you got something for your service time...

not really.. with real paying customers there is (well, in most reasonable companies) the expectation or obligation of at least some service and support, whereas with freeware there's (imho) not. the most a freeware developer should feel any kind of obligation to do is set up a forum where users can help each other out.

on the other hand... if people are downloading freeware and then being dicks about it, well, that makes me very sad and pretty angry. never had that problem too much @ fxpansion (and never let it bother me on the very rare occasions that people do slag the free stuff... send it straight to the same place as korean spam, "cheap loanz" and "click here to enlarge your penis"), but being primarily a commercial developer i guess our freeware doesn't get the amount of downloads to get too much of that.

Dunno what the heck made Stefan to discontinue Vivaldi MX but honestly Vivaldi MX was one of the BEST synths around (free or not). It was one of the best regarding sound quality. Pretty phat and warm (many commercial synths sound like shit compared to vivaldi)... I was really impressed by the fact that this great FM monster was free. Excellent synth, I am pretty dissapointed with his statement about people tellin' things about Vivaldi.

Once again my respect to him and I hope that he will change his mind or pass over the sources to someone else.

PS: I was about to give Vivaldi some more of my time and make some banks for it but... I will still use it though no matter what.

Frankly, I think some freeware VST authors are expecting too much. You have to just want to do it for its own sake. Too many authors put up an instrument and expect immediate adulation. Is it so surprising that 100 downloads could take place before anyone says anything. Let's face it--there are so many freebies out there now that it's hard to find a use for a new one.

There's no point in making free VSTs if you're going to spend your time being mad at your public.

In this day and age of Instant gratification and Internet Whoring...... it does not surprize me... the Internet has developed a new breed of Trolls... but on the other hand... if he went commerical he is still going to get smack in his face by some users...... some times it takes a bit more of a thick skin to do it.....

I feel bad for the Guy... but if I were going to make a freeware product I would have to set my priorities out... do I want to have my Ego massaged or do I want to do something that is fullfilling by me just doing it and who cares what the outside says?... do I just want to make a few happy and who cares about the rest... Because I DONT CARE out good of product that you make... you will still have peeps complain.

Good luck to him/her in their future

so thats it then ?

the End.. no more evolution/advances.

what an odd post.

mistertoast wrote:

Frankly, I think some freeware VST authors are expecting too much. You have to just want to do it for its own sake. Too many authors put up an instrument and expect immediate adulation. Is it so surprising that 100 downloads could take place before anyone says anything. Let's face it--there are so many freebies out there now that it's hard to find a use for a new one. There's no point in making free VSTs if you're going to spend your time being mad at your public.

The same thing happened in Mame and arcade emulation scene. Talented guys stopped their services because a few dicks expressed their rights and felt they where not appreciated.

I'm not going to speculate on what may have happened, what should have happened or how anyone should respond to certain stimuli, since I don't really expect other people to feel the same as me or react the same as me.

What I will say is that Ganymed, Vivaldi and Vivaldi MX are pretty amazing synths. So amazing, in fact, that I haven't a clue how to tweak them (that's my fault, not his) but I am blown away by the presets. It's pretty obvious that someone poured his heart, blood and soul into these VSTis and the results are something to be proud of.

I'm saddened by his frustration and I would be quite happy to pay for the versions that currently reside in my vstplugins folder - even if there is no further development.

I wish the developer a happy, asshole-free life...

I wish Stefan all the best in his new pursuits, but can't help think of the old line 'If it's too hot in the kitchen...'. Not that people should be screamin' me-me's to the poor guy either. But we are all in a trade where it's 1% perspiration and 99% rejection. Be it a cigar chompin' label head, a DJ who got a bad cappacino in the morning, or an anonymous armchair prgrammer on the internet saying 'you should've done this, and why didn't you do that, and could you do this, and then you don't need the other thing.' But even then, Stefan could've just used DELETE - but he was too much of a nice guy? I was just starting to get into the Vivaldi and Ganymed things myself, and was hoping for more insight and patches and all.

But there's some great people at KVR as well, and I'm sure all of Stefans creations will live on and prosper for many years.

(And I won't be the one to play armchair programmer with any either! I usually just have one stupid idea if ever, and just use DELETE if you see me coming. )

This IS sad . . .

It's true that their are buttloads of free VSTi's out there, but I think Ganymed and Vivaldi/mx really stand out as being superior quality. I think they are some of the best, and i would definitely prefer them to go commercial and have to pay for them then have them be discontinued.

I WOULD be willing to pay for these synths if he continued development on them - and i don't think I am the only one . . .

I'm not saying people should stop making VSTis because there are a lot of them. I'm just saying that someone that puts one out needs a tough skin.

You know, this is going to give away my age, perhaps, but my mother always taught me "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

I'm not saying people should not warn other users about the real trash out there--which deserves to be revealed for what it is and removed from sites like KVR--but if somebody has labored to put something together and puts it out there for free, I think it's reasonable for them to be surprised and hurt if people pile onto them as if they had just paid $400 for it.

That's the thing about paid-for software. When I pay for something, I want--I've ceased to expect--it to work. And I want--I've ceased to expect--it to get better over time. And I want--I've ceased to expect--free upgrades. And I want--I've ceased to expect--customer support. I feel like I'm paying for these things when I plop down my money. The more I plop down, the more I expect in return: $20, I'm probably going to figure I got what I paid for already. $400? That's a different matter entirely. And if I don't get a reasonable level of performance and support out of something I paid $400 for, you can believe I'm going to let somebody know about it...and not just the vendor.

But if I get something FREE, and I don't like it, as long as it doesn't do some major damage to my system or waste HOURS AND HOURS of my time--time is at least as valuable as money, after all--I'm sure not going to get in a public forum and trash it to high heaven or go out of my way to send the developer personal emails telling him/her how ignorant and ****ed s/he is. I mean, I try to have a little compassion for other people: How would I feel if I had spent weeks, months, years developing something for NOTHING and then got a ton of emails in my box telling me what a stupid little **** I am?

I just don't get it. Why would I (or anyone) want to be that mean to somebody? Personally, I choose not to be mean unless there's a very good reason to be mean. (Like when I've just been taken for a $400 ride.) I can only speculate that those people who go to such mean extremes over freeware have deep-seated psychological problems. Or they are a bit delusional about where their money has gone and what it might entitle them to. Or they are shameless competitors.

When people develop and give stuff away for free, few of them are expecting accolades--although they might be hoping for some recognition. They do, however, thrive on the occasional pats on the pack to let them know their labor is appreciated, and they love hearing intelligent feedback on what they can do to make it even better. Intelligent feedback means somebody is interested enough in what they are doing to think about it in more than a cursory way; they didn't just write off the developer's "labor of love" as complete crap without having first invested a little of their own time in seeing what it could and could not do.

Constructive critcism is necessary. It drives the engine. But purposeless, mindless meanness poisons the well of innovation; it just makes those on the receiving end want to vegetate, die, or destroy something. And they are only human: To survive, they either have to become part of the mindless meanness, or they have to somehow modulate it (the hardest option), or (to preserve their health and sanity) they have to remove themselves entirely from its influence. Most people who are not being paid to put up with meanness won't do it for very long.

But, no. I probably have it all wrong. Freeware developers do what they do because they're masochists just asking for it, right? They put a "Free" sign on their heads that really means "I beg you! Dump all your **** on me!" Hey, maybe that's what's really going on!

What I'm saying is, the kitchen's hot enough without us deliberately trying to make it hotter for the volunteers. It ought to be the other way around.

Diane

Diane... you make all good points but the thing is.... you and I might not be mean and cruel..... but this is the NET and there are nasty people out there just to be nasty we cant change the way they are but we can change the way that we react to them

ner0z wrote:

we cant change the way they are but we can change the way that we react to them

ner0z .... super words, jaj!
(can i use them for a song?? )

putte

mistertoast wrote:

Frankly, I think some freeware VST authors are expecting too much. You have to just want to do it for its own sake. Too many authors put up an instrument and expect immediate adulation.

I don't think that's why he has quit. Stefan has come across as a great guy, never as someone who wanted his ego stroked. It is because the other way around, some (sometimes many) people don't appreciate what they get for free and start bashing the developer for no good reason (anyone seen bryllyant's comments about Crystal ). When you are developing FREE stuff for everyone and get confronted with comments like that you DO wonder why the hell you actually would put up with it. I've been there myself, and it takes a lot of stemina to keep going in such cases. I have been close to quiting certain things not long ago and only because some very good friends (here and elsewhere, you know who you are) dragged me through it, I didn't quit.

Some people don't know the word gratitude.

putte wrote:

ner0z wrote: we cant change the way they are but we can change the way that we react to them ner0z .... super words, jaj! (can i use them for a song?? ) putte

any time Putter!!!! i just wish you the best after the all the kickings in the head you have taken from the Donk.. and now a turkey???

JaJA!!

Crimson,

I'm always there with an encouraging word myself. I've never been a fan of rudeness. But I still think that the freeware guys (in general) need to be doing it for themselves.

Didn't Stefan sort of give us several warnings when he first put Vivaldi MX out? My impressions: He was upset that he wasn't getting much feedback. He was upset that people couldn't figure out FM. He was upset that people didn't like the GUI.

I hate to say it, but Stefan's probably right to pull the plug. He wasn't getting the feedback he wanted. Why do a freebie if it only give you heartache. It's too bad, but maybe he's just not cut out for the long hours, abuse, and low pay of the Freebie VSTi author.

I think it was more the abuse he took when he started the thread about his colleagues getting laid off. People were extremely insensitive in that thread.

The internet makes the meek bold,a nd that is unfortunate.

prog

perhaps it was all the above reasons.
lack of sensitivity towards the layoffs
lack of feedback
lack of a 'buzz'
I downloaded vivaldi and well....never used it,deleted it,and lost interest.
I suspect the same thing happened to other people because I never saw
any 'buzz' like when synth 1 showed up.Every week someone was posting
a bank of 32 to 64 presets for it or had just finished using it in a song.
I never had anything bad to say about it,but I never had anything good
to say about it either.
It is sad that this happened though
another bit of discouraging news

I still use Ganymead, and I love the built-in sequencer. I always thought it was one of the coolest free synths. And I wrote him and told him that! I didn't go for Vivaldi so much, but they were both obviously very well done! I'm sure he'll be back some time... This Internet brings out the ugly in people for some reason...

Anonymity, and an inabilty to express themselves in real life being over compensated for virtually.

Ps. Angus that link doesn't work, I clicked and clicked and....oh....never mind

Well. I thought they were (are) fabulous synths, and I think it's a crying shame that people expect more than really quite good for nothing.


I have no demands to make and a lot of praise to give. Good luck with whatever else you decide to do.

opiadream wrote:

I downloaded vivaldi and well....never used it,deleted it,and lost interest. I suspect the same thing happened to other people because I never saw any 'buzz' like when synth 1 showed up.

Same here, I downloaded Vivaldi played with it for about half an hour but it didn't cut the mustard, dare I say I found it a boring synth?
Not that I mentioned it at the time that would have been inappropriate for something that cost me nothing more than a few moments to download.

It’s a tough market with some tough players, only the strongest can survive.

Freeware synths are not a "market" though. The measure of success or failure is not in profit or loss, but entirely in the mind of the creator.

As for me, I don't use Vivaldi MX in every single track, but it does fill its particular niche very well. I find it more useful and more pleasant to work with than many commercial synths I have demo'd.

There is nothing wrong with people wanting positive feedback when releasing a VSTi. A program is a piece of art. Any art is not just for the enjoyment of the creator. If you take pride in your creation you want people to use and enjoy that creation. And, you want to know they enjoy your work. Positive feedback is what makes those hours, days and months you spend on a VSTi worth it. A few paragraphs in a major magazine is heaven. Stupid comments form ungrateful leaches is a reminder that there is a significant number of idiots within our population. And while these types of comments hurt, anyone who has posted a song and got no feedback knows that silence is the worst possible result when giving something to the public. Silence causes the creator to question himself. Is it bad? Is it boring? Am I a failure?

As features rise in the top end synths so does the expectation for all synths. Everyone wants easily assignable MIDI control, multiple filters and a slick GUI. Sadly the people who complain about the deficiencies of a free VSTi don’t comprehend the concept of being grateful for something free because they steal everything by way of Kazaa. You can recognize these people when they make statements like “Pro52 runs fine on my computer”. (If they had bought Pro52 then they would have already upgraded to Pro53.) A flood of poor Synth Edit projects have also hurt those that make free VSTi’s. It seems that for every “programmed from scratch” synth there are 10 Synth Edit releases. There is just too much out there to try everything and appreciate everything. But, I have a feeling it is not just makers of free synths that are being ignored. Just how many $30 synths do we need with the standard 3 osc one filter layout? And look at all the effects packages. Why buy a $30 reverb when someone is giving one away of the same quality? If you don’t create a “must have” product and get a good price for it then you are in for a hard time.

Robert

- rabid

I agree with you whole heartidly.

silence is the worst. I could imagine being on cloud 9 for a week with a write up in a mag.

Also VST,i's will get more expensive.

Free ware will become fewer and farther between.

dw

bunch of Pc fucker assholes

now I bet there's not gonna be a Mac version..thanks alot jerks!!!!

I don't think this problem is specific to freeware; I spend enough time on various forums to have realised that some people are just plain assholes, and will find something to complain about no matter what. Chances are, if he started charging for his software, people would complain it's too expensive. The difference is that you're at least making some money with a commercial product, which helps make the whole undertaking worthwhile.

Either way, you definitely need thick skin...

realmarco wrote:

bunch of Pc fucker assholes now I bet there's not gonna be a Mac version..thanks alot jerks!!!!

You are way out of line dude...

JohnVulich wrote:

realmarco wrote: bunch of Pc fucker assholes now I bet there's not gonna be a Mac version..thanks alot jerks!!!! You are way out of line dude...

no he is not out of line.... he just owns a MAC

if I ever find the fucker who pissed off Lighthouseatdawn I'm gonna lash him and then hang him in front of his children

ner0z wrote:

no he is not out of line.... he just owns a MAC

JohnVulich wrote:

.....You are way out of line dude...

I think his comment was aimed at the people complaining about the software, not the developer.

Robert

Rabid wrote:

I think his comment was aimed at the people complaining about the software, not the developer.

I realize that... I still think it was out of line.

Er, only idiots will want to bash it.
But in our own defense about Stephen, I do remember a thread about the "most underrated VSTi's," and a number of contributors cited Ganymede as an underappreciated gem, myself included. Stephen responded and said that he valued the comments and support. While Vivaldi might be a slightly different matter, I hope Stephen knows that in some quarters his efforts were and are appreciated.
Shmoe

Maybe his wife is pregnant and he needs to make some paid-for synths? That'll always focus the mind.

Seriously though, I hope he takes his creations and makes a new synth which he sells for money.

And BTW, I'll bet the events at his company DID have an effect. When you see friends get laid off, the idea of getting money for your work seems a lot less like greed, and more like a way to provide for your family.

Shmoe wrote:

Er, only idiots will want to bash it. But in our own defense about Stephen, I do remember a thread about the "most underrated VSTi's," and a number of contributors cited Ganymede as an underappreciated gem, myself included. Stephen responded and said that he valued the comments and support. While Vivaldi might be a slightly different matter, I hope Stephen knows that in some quarters his efforts were and are appreciated. Shmoe

True. But I also remember reading a short thread not that long ago that began with someone slaughtering a basic Synth Edit creation someone had posted. This wasn't constructive criticism, it was just pointless abuse. That's another fledgling developer who we probably won't see again.

This isn't to say that we should just praise everything that freeware developers do. I'm sure most of them would prefer honest but CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. But the least they deserve is to be treated with respect.

SRF wrote:

Shmoe wrote: Er, only idiots will want to bash it. But in our own defense about Stephen, I do remember a thread about the "most underrated VSTi's," and a number of contributors cited Ganymede as an underappreciated gem, myself included. Stephen responded and said that he valued the comments and support. While Vivaldi might be a slightly different matter, I hope Stephen knows that in some quarters his efforts were and are appreciated. Shmoe True. But I also remember reading a short thread not that long ago that began with someone slaughtering a basic Synth Edit creation someone had posted. This wasn't constructive criticism, it was just pointless abuse. That's another fledgling developer who we probably won't see again. This isn't to say that we should just praise everything that freeware developers do. I'm sure most of them would prefer honest but CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. But the least they deserve is to be treated with respect.

... and check out the review of Odo's "A-Bass" if you want an example of just how constructive and supportive we can be to fledgling developers (sarcasm alert).

SRF wrote:

This isn't to say that we should just praise everything that freeware developers do. I'm sure most of them would prefer honest but CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. But the least they deserve is to be treated with respect.

> as one of your 'fledgling developers' [ i guess ] you are right on the button here ... by all means tell me what 'wrong' AS LONG AS you also tell me what you think the right way to fix / improve it is ...

> fwiw ... in my experience 95% of the feedback you get [ both on forums and via e.mail ] is either positive or helpful ... but there is that other 5% ...

> i just hope stefan reconsiders and come back to us ...

> slainte rob

PS - "fledgling developer" wasn't meant to sound condescending, Rob (in case that's how you took it). I stand in suitable awe of anyone who can create a VSTi. The last thing I programmed was a text adventure game on a ZX Spectrum, and even that was crap...

> didnt read that way at all m8 ... and thanks for the follow up comment ...

> hmmmnnn ... text adventures on the spectrum eh ... i started out with a VERY simple galaxians clone on my 1k zx81 ... those were the [ crappy black and white with no sound ] days ...

> slainte rob

eXpeRIMentFOUR wrote:

> fwiw ... in my experience 95% of the feedback you get [ both on forums and via e.mail ] is either positive or helpful ... but there is that other 5% ... > i just hope stefan reconsiders and come back to us ... > slainte rob

hehe.. you know whats sad.. i *never* got a single peice of email.. good or bad comments on any of my SE vsti's... go figure.

however it sounds as if he really thought about it before taking it all down.. so it sounds as if his mind is made up..

but who knows.. maybe this will lead to bigger and better things for HIM..

This is a shame. DAMMIT!! Vivaldi MX was becoming my favorite VSTI. A few more updates and it could have been one of the best softsynths ever. The sound quality was liquid. I wish more developers would make sound quality precedent over CPU effeciency.

Theres so many free VSTIs coming out that its easy for a jewel to be overlooked. I think thats what has happened with Vivaldi MX. So many options and so much eye candy. I never could figure out why there wasnt more folks raving about it, maybe that is why.

Either way he is a talented developer. I'll definitely miss future versions of Vivaldi MX.

crimson warlock wrote Some people don't know the word gratitude
and I write hell to them and luckily there are guys that are thankful !
I guess the trick is, when you are communicating with an artist (I see developers as an artist too, just like a painter or a sculptor )
to find the happy medium between constructive criticism and praise one too highly. The effort developers put into free plug ins often doesn't equal
the response they get from the audio community, it doesn't live up to there work. I have felt wretched at times to see a developer do cool stuff and I simply had no time to make nice patches for it or to help the developer in that particular case with testing stuff.
I once told you we all have the same amount off time .. the difference is how we use it. That is exactly the problem
but VIVALDI deserved a lot more attention and I must honestly say I wouldn't have won the December contest if it weren't for the use of VIVALDI ! and I expressed this feeling to Stefan ! Now you know the reason why I have praised inferior projects as well in the past ... developers need that attention just like a child needs attention from his parents when he shows a drawing. Just like we all need a pat on the back from time to time

THAT'S LIFE

[whoa - this post is what we call "avautuminen" in Finnish... that could be translated "letting it all out"?]

This makes me really sad.

I'm one of those who make music just for the kicks. My ambitions in life are something else, but electronic music is my dearest hobby. I've spent a good deal more than I could afford to get a good PC, soundcard and a midi controller - because I knew right from the beginning that I will never be able to buy a decent "studio" from hardware. This is to say that freeware developers make it possible for me to enjoy composing my own things, in the comfort of my own home. This includes a massive amount of gratitude, that I find quite hard to express in a sensible way.

I didn't dl Ganymed or Vivaldi when they appeared because FM synthesis in all it's complexity made me feel really stupid at the time. However, I've familiarised myself with the concept after that and was really glad when Vivaldi MX came out. I was young in the 80's, which is probably the reason I love the sound of all things FM. MX makes this beautiful, clear electronic sound available to me, to be used and abused as I wish.

Imitating analogue hardware and the functionality of their IC-bound mechanics in the free zone of computer code is IMHO waste of coding skills and disrespect of true creativity. No matter how well you imitate, it will always be an imitation. The computer purring under my desk is superior to the biggest and meanest supercomputers of the past, I think it a pity that this massive resource is used to imitate something that it can never become. The pixels on screen will never be lovely tweakable knobs, the 1 & 0 in the code will never be electric signals running through circuitry - and when I say never, it really means never never neverever. This is a border that cannot be crossed, no matter how close one can get.

At the moment, there are only a few synths that take advantage of the new possibilities offered by CPUish "virtuality" and the long-established usability tricks of the big screen, mouse&keyboard- interface. Which, in my honest opinion is superior to a rackmounted little box offering a filthy LCD and a limited number of knobs. Absynth, Crystal and Vivaldi MX are the only candidates in the category of software synths in the terms of GUI. There are some very basic principles that should be rethought with this whole eye-candy thing- mouse is not meant to deliver rotating movements, and the program does not have to look like a hardware unit.

When the developers truly start to think soft, nobody will want to back to hard anymore. In five years we have CPUs capable of unimaginable amounts of calculations at unthinkable speed, but if it is misused to imitate something, hardware will excel even then. But going the other way, forgetting the limitations of physical world could take computer music on to a seriously higher level, and turn the ugly purring box into a respected, irreplaceable instument on it's own.

So I think that LighthouseatDawn was one of the few taking the first steps on what I see as the only way software instument development should go. I hope he (or you, should u read this...) continues to trust in his ability to create new. And I hope I'm allowed to keep my copy of Vivaldi MX.

Respekt,

- pakana -

foosnark wrote:

Freeware synths are not a "market" though. The measure of success or failure is not in profit or loss, but entirely in the mind of the creator. .

Well that really depends on your definition of the words market, profit and loss.
In this case the mind of the creator was obviously unhappy about the whole situation and thus decided (rightly imo) to throw the towel in.
The whole manner in which this was done does seem slightly melodramatic though.
Cue some good Violin sounds

Shmoe wrote:

I do remember a thread about the "most underrated VSTi's," and a number of contributors cited Ganymede as an underappreciated gem, myself included. Stephen responded and said that he valued the comments and support. While Vivaldi might be a slightly different matter, I hope Stephen knows that in some quarters his efforts were and are appreciated. Shmoe

You know, I didn't use Vivaldi much, either. Ganymed was my "main squeeze." But Vivaldi MX is a very exciting and innovative new synth for me. I got my ghost made yesterday so I know I'm not going to lose access to this wonderful synth. And I'm serious about people maybe making/sharing presets for it. I'm not very good at doing that yet myself, but this whole flap has motivated me to learn how. Then maybe I can appreciate Crystal a little more, too.

Diane

P.S. A wee bit off-topic to this thread, because Stefan's synths are not SynthEdit synths. But know what? Bashing SynthEdit synths is also bashing SynthEdit, which could also drive its development into the ground. Jeff has been working hard--along with SynthEdit developers--on getting a SynthEdit SDK honed so other developers can program new modules for it...which means SynthEdit will get more and more capable at doing all these wonderful new things we want our VSTis to do, and SynthEdit VSTis will also get better. Before anyone bashes a SynthEdit-created synth, they should get into SynthEdit and try to make their own synth so they understand what's involved, what it can and cannot do right now, and what's on the horizon.

There's a saying that I'll quote the gist of: "Freedom of the press belongs to the one who owns the press." That applies to VSTis as well. Steinberg was insightful enough to recognize that VSTi development should be open to anyone interested in doing it (as long as some simple rules are followed). And Jeff, with SynthEdit, took that a bit further by recognizing that we all would benefit in the long run from more people tapping into their own creativity and attempting to develop VSTis to accomplish what they want to do without having to have master's degrees in computer programming to do it. I think Jeff deserves some thanks, too, for his work, as do all the SynthEdit developers who work with him to improve the program and its SDK.

welcome

Quote:

The reason for this is rather simple: I'm fed up with beeing a freeware developer. The majority of people seems to think that if you don't pay for something, then it is worth nothing. People were showing a very ignorant and arrogant attitude towards me and my software and seemed to think, if they can get it for free, they don't need to show the slightest amount of respect for me or what I do. That's basically why.

I'm not sure what people have said and how they have been disrespectful to him but I wouldn't let that get in the way of sharing his great creations.. I'm certain there are many people appreciative of his works. The most important thing for him to do is to keep creating these free synths to help establish a name, then make a commercial killer synth that everyone will flock to buy.

Hmm, is Freeware a market? Not in the strictest sense of competition perhaps, but freeware does exhibit some strong market dynamics - community of use being the most important. It doesn't matter that much if only a hundred people invest their effort into using a particular freeware, if that investment produces a community whose existence keeps the developer, developing. You can see this kind of thing happening with Jules and Traktion.

What I find curious is that Lighthouse at Dawn explicitly chose to announce his decision off this forum. That strikes me as being a particularly pointed rejection of the community of use he found here.

Steinberg deserves a bad time, freeware developers don't.

Quote:

Steinberg deserves a bad time

erm ... and why is that ?

Poweruser wrote:

Quote: Steinberg deserves a bad time erm ... and why is that ?

How far back would you like to go? From the previous twenty four hours:

All those, still loosing UNDO, please post here ! dada 11 05 February 2003 14:34
Pitch number? surfer 3 05 February 2003 14:33
UNDO still stopps working !! dada 12 05 February 2003 14:27
wav or mp3 converting to midi? tfeucht 0 05 February 2003 14:26
SX problem with Midi timeing frank_1 7 05 February 2003 13:52
Cubase fanatics: explain THIS . . . . Emile 4 05 February 2003 13:39
Improved error trapping ... greendoor2 1 05 February 2003 13:38
Sx midi out of sync toni yaffa 1 05 February 2003 13:22
I'm having a bit of a problem Newman50 3 05 February 2003 13:11
POOF: The SX disappearance phenomenon. Don´t read if you don´t have it. Christian Dettner 33 05 February 2003 12:47
Right Mouse Click not working (VST 5.1) Gerry D 1 05 February 2003 12:34
Part name change Mike Talbot 6 05 February 2003 12:31
VSTi doesnt sound same on playback Digitaldub 2 05 February 2003 12:30
audio settings prophecy 0 05 February 2003 12:23
Annoying Noise In SX Swurveman 3 05 February 2003 12:19
More than annoying Cubas SX "feature" subpantelis 1 05 February 2003 11:46
My first POOF. (hangs head in shame). Phil Pendlebury 0 05 February 2003 11:38
Midi timing when recording midi Patrickste 2 05 February 2003 11:12
SX mixer channels improvement - a suggestion for the developers Ruffa1 0 05 February 2003 10:42
Cubase messing with my XP visual effects!! Mixsynth 5 05 February 2003 10:41
winXp or win2000 with dsp2416??? talifinal 1 05 February 2003 10:17
Annoying things in SX - 'The List' J D'Oe 16 05 February 2003 10:11
Default project annoyance TheLetterZ 0 05 February 2003 09:38
VST Send Fx aren't working?!?!@#$*| !!!! Lysha Smith 7 05 February 2003 09:33
No more mixer channels???? SiMPle 0 05 February 2003 09:21
recording technic headroom mastering seti808 0 05 February 2003 08:05
Nobody used the mixermaps? Diana 8 05 February 2003 07:34
The SX *** WISH LIST *** 50KHZ 42 05 February 2003 06:56
will midi groove ever be implemented mozza 2 05 February 2003 06:47
Bounce Error Suntower 4 05 February 2003 06:25
fades a glitchin James Mert 10 05 February 2003 05:53
having a problem with sx... malice 2 05 February 2003 04:22
Pops, Clicks, Crackles (was 32-bit only) CactusSounds 5 05 February 2003 04:09
Made a little progress today on the midi drift issue T_Swindle 12 05 February 2003 04:00
Error Message. Please Help! Mack-Zeem 3 05 February 2003 02:43
Why doesn't Steinberg have a SYNTH EDITOR/LIBRARIAN to work with Cubase?! Dance123 46 05 February 2003 02:12
Not able to use more than 38 Asio Channels in Cubase SX ? DJOrpheus 2 05 February 2003 02:10
What about the Buglist for 1.0.5.61? Where can i add some bugs? drive 13 05 February 2003 02:02
How not to record the Metronome? capka 24 05 February 2003 01:22
pop, skip and a jump !!! dr.zeemo 6 04 February 2003 23:41
Poof Clue ?? TonyB 2 04 February 2003 23:01
What to do? cmi 0 04 February 2003 22:05
Can only record at 32-Bit Float CactusSounds 5 04 February 2003 21:44
Latency during midi-recording werter 4 04 February 2003 20:32
ODD?! Powercore out of sync? MarkSchonfeld 0 04 February 2003 19:03
Automation Crackling djhessler 2 04 February 2003 19:01
Cubase v5.1 importing audio problems doa 1 04 February 2003 18:48
Mixer Presets VERY troublesome bug. crypticglobe2 1 04 February 2003 18:34
SX ----> Nuendo chimp_spanner 0 04 February 2003 17:51
Unable to drag from Desktop to the Project Window.. Bummer, because... ellaysee 21 04 February 2003 17:43
Loading Project PROBLEM!! Enpsychopedia 3 04 February 2003 17:41
SX 1.03 is doing funny: slowing and stuff Arv 5 04 February 2003 17:25
Cubase SX problems Scojo 0 04 February 2003 17:24
Open Issues.... Awaiting Communication from Steinberg crypticglobe2 22 04 February 2003 16:26
losing midi connection markbynoe 6 04 February 2003 16:17
Help! Can't read old Cubase files... Mikhail 1 04 February 2003 15:20
Now this is weird. Cracked 0 04 February 2003 15:03
VST SYSTEM LINK DELAY W/VST!!!!!!! MNMCHAZ 31 04 February 2003 14:54
So Confused ! Which update 1.03 or 1.05 george682 6 04 February 2003 14:45
I know I read this somewhere re: standard pc pada 4 04 February 2003 14:38
SX: Audio Export "Abort" not working? Phil Pendlebury 1 04 February 2003 14:36
fliping patches help me plz darksync 0 04 February 2003 13:48
change to ASIO now no sound! wilkie 0 04 February 2003 13:32
Can´t export audio twangboy 15 04 February 2003 13:07
New recordings include playback of previous tracks!! Please Help! spacesheep 0 04 February 2003 12:30
corrupted file joydivision 0 04 February 2003 12:07
Hey is SX better than Insane Mixaken 3 04 February 2003 11:46
Midi-problems flying sheep 2 04 February 2003 10:51
cpu usage at 100% with sx. please help! ][V][ARK 8 04 February 2003 10:23
Next Maitenance Release - Standard Tool dada 12 04 February 2003 10:23
SX disappears from Applications list but song keeps playing? deekuppi 5 04 February 2003 09:04
kernel32 fault 7655 2 04 February 2003 08:50
Breaking News: Sonar 2.2 + ASIO = POOF!! Slim Mike 25 04 February 2003 07:44
SMPTE Problem kelso 2 04 February 2003 04:57
syncrosoft POS error - NEED HELP! musicamann 1 04 February 2003 04:20
Please don't flame me if it's not true... Logic 6.0 Heath 50 04 February 2003 04:14
Missing Dialogs in SX? Two monitors -> One? HiFiChild 8 04 February 2003 02:50
Sound shorts then Crackle n Pop Digitaldub 1 04 February 2003 02:40
no recent poofs but... geo316 1 04 February 2003 02:35
One second delay on all meters? blazecole 2 04 February 2003 01:48
Any of you noticed, that Events/parts are cut too short, even with editor snap ON? SLL 5 04 February 2003 01:42
Tempo Mapping Casey 1 04 February 2003 01:13
have you spoke about logic 6? hubrys 4 04 February 2003 01:12
Acid Integration with SX umlike 11 04 February 2003 00:58

Yep, even THIS thread goes of-topic

oh, I just read the bad news, well I will miss the vivaldi.
It´s a stupid statement but he was a good developer.


R.I.P Vivaldi

Quote:

Yep, even THIS thread goes of-topic

what's your point crimson
isn't that how the associating mind works ?
you can answer my points earlier in this thread as well in stet of this one liner they were def. not of-topic

realmarco wrote:

if I ever find the fucker who pissed off Lighthouseatdawn I'm gonna lash him and then hang him in front of his children

I surely hope that you are kidding..... if not you are way out I mean way out of line


Jesus Grow the fuck up

Poweruser wrote:

Quote: Yep, even THIS thread goes of-topic what's your point crimson isn't that how the associating mind works ? you can answer my points earlier in this thread as well in stet of this one liner they were def. not of-topic

Someone started this thread to point out to people how sad it is that someone who is doing something great (making great synths for free) is somehow forced (emotionally) to quit what he is doing.

I have seen this thread going into a Mac-vs-PC war because of a statement that was tmo (and others) out of line, and now it's about Steinberg needing a bad time

nuf said

bryllyant wrote:

It´s a stupid statement but he was a good developer.

You STILL don't get the point, do you

It's statements like that one that MADE HIM QUIT

Sakino_Akura wrote:

foosnark wrote: Freeware synths are not a "market" though. The measure of success or failure is not in profit or loss, but entirely in the mind of the creator. . Well that really depends on your definition of the words market, profit and loss. In this case the mind of the creator was obviously unhappy about the whole situation and thus decided (rightly imo) to throw the towel in. The whole manner in which this was done does seem slightly melodramatic though. Cue some good Violin sounds

So long as they're not crappy freeware ones.

I say booh - you say bah - we say bo - then he says duh ? - then she says bluh .... and after that bluh - we all forgot about that booh

inherent to the multi user interactive call and respond medium called forum

hows life going further my dear crimson ?
besides you being terribly busy on writing / graphic designing / coding and previewing and protecting the backs of our respected vsti coders in the audioworld ?

Hi all,

it is very sad, that Stefan discontinued the development of his wonderful syths.
The ugly comments or e-mails, that he got could be from some grudging guys or from peaple, who are related to companies, which develop similar, but commercial products.

By posting ugly comments they intended to demoralize him.

It seems that they have succeeded!

This is called psychological warfare!

All the people, who want good free synths should stand up and post comments and emails, which support Stefan.

Let's defend the good.

I call everyone here:

Send Stefan encouraging e-mails. I am sure, that this will help him, and - finally - us!

Beste regards

David

mmmm

i could give some blueprints of encouraging mail i wrote
guess music speaks better !
lets have a VIVALDI CONTEST

MAKE AN OUTSTANDING VIVALDI PIECE

it's obvious that free (and even more opensource) software is considered being rubbish by most people who prefer spending $$$ for hype (or using illegal cracked versions....)

they prefer being un-considered by the company they gave $$$ to, than helping and rewarding good developers who give the work of their spare time for free....

it's very sad, but it's so true.

It's a great loss, both from a human and a technical point of view.

I think there's something to the speculation that Stefan quit - at least partly - because of the reactions he got after posting about his mates losing their jobs. If you revisit that thread, you'll see that he deleted his entire opening post and replaced it with something like "I should've known better than to post here" or some such thing.

I can understand his bitterness. K-v-R can show the best face of people - but it can also show the worst. When you choose a place like K-v-R to serve as your 'shelter', after a while you tend to let your shields down; you become vulnerable. And when you're vulnerable, the smallest insult or strike of ignorance can feel more hurtful and disappointing than the biggest violation that you suffered 'outside' - because 'outside' you expect it, whereas in a 'shelter' you don't.

Stefan seems to have taken the layoffs really bad. He sought sympathy here, and when a few people acted less than sympathetic, he lost faith in our community.

Cannot blame him. It doesn't mean his actions are 'justified' or 'commendable' or 'right' or whatever; it simply means that, for him and his personality/ego, in this context, this action presented an acceptable and successful venue of coping with frustration and depression - and so it was correct.

crimsonwarlock wrote:

bryllyant wrote: It´s a stupid statement but he was a good developer. You STILL don't get the point, do you It's statements like that one that MADE HIM QUIT

p**s o** in which world does he live (and you c-warlock) ??
Did he think there will never be ugly statements ? How naive ?
THAT`S what I mean with stupid statement. Why can´t he stay
over it. It is so normal to recieve fucking ugly statements from even
beta testers. Damn, he should erase those mails and go on develop
Vivaldi. HE knows that his work is good and WE know that it is good. Ignore the rest whom will always return!
THAT´S all what counts !! Get it Mr. crimsonwarlock or is that to high
for your little nuty brain ??

I hope he will change his mind. so sad.

Quote:

Damn, he should erase those mails and go on develop Vivaldi. HE knows that his work is good and WE know that it is good. Ignore the rest whom will always return! THAT´S all what counts !! Get it Mr. crimsonwarlock or is that to high for your little nuty brain ??

you should take things a bit easier. Your not only pissing crimson warlock
off . posts like this tarnishes the reputation of this friendly community.
Setting a mood is easy. inspiring people is a harder thing to do.
Try to be a bit more kind, and people will be more kind to you as well,
perhaps something to keep in mind.

remco

perhaps that puts you back on a solid ground.

I'm really of two minds... three minds about this whole thing.


One: if somebody gives you something for free -- a gift in other words -- common courtesy is to accept it with thanks. If you like it, use it. If you don't, put it in the back of the closet and forget it, but be nice about it. If you tell the person how much you don't like the gift, you're just being a dick.


Two: a lot of people, particularly in the online world, are dicks. You (by which I mean Stefan) need to ignore them and not let them get you down.

A lot more people simply won't say anything. Take a look at the Music Cafe thread's number of reads vs. number of comments, on songs where comments are specifically asked for. That doesn't necessarily mean the song sucks or those people are all jerks, it's just the way of things.

As far as synths go, I bet there are far more people cruise by KVR, snag every bit of interesting software they see mentioned, and never come back, than there are people who become forum regulars and/or email developers.


Three: when a hobby stops being fun, you stop doing it. (Unless it's an addiction.) Making freeware synths was Stefan's hobby. It stopped being fun for him, he stopped doing it, end of story, none our business. Be happy for him that he's not an addict. He doesn't owe us future updates.

Giving somebody a gift is not a promise to give more.


Four: (okay, I can't count) notice he is getting more forum attention now than ever before?

Well said Foosnark.

ner0z wrote:

realmarco wrote: if I ever find the fucker who pissed off Lighthouseatdawn I'm gonna lash him and then hang him in front of his children I surely hope that you are kidding..... if not you are way out I mean way out of line Jesus Grow the fuck up

awh shuddup you fat sell-out!

realmarco wrote:

ner0z wrote: realmarco wrote: if I ever find the fucker who pissed off Lighthouseatdawn I'm gonna lash him and then hang him in front of his children I surely hope that you are kidding..... if not you are way out I mean way out of line Jesus Grow the fuck up awh shuddup you fat sell-out!

you know this has gone too far!!! I have never even downloaded one of his synths.... but the statement that you make about Killing someone and hanging them in front of their Children his very SAD..... I gave you the chance to say that you are kidding and you did not take it..... Now I will let Ben deal with this

ner0z wrote:

realmarco wrote: ner0z wrote: realmarco wrote: if I ever find the fucker who pissed off Lighthouseatdawn I'm gonna lash him and then hang him in front of his children I surely hope that you are kidding..... if not you are way out I mean way out of line Jesus Grow the fuck up awh shuddup you fat sell-out! you know this has gone too far!!! I have never even downloaded one of his synths.... but the statement that you make about Killing someone and hanging them in front of their Children his very SAD..... I gave you the chance to say that you are kidding and you did not take it..... Now I will let Ben deal with this

I said SHuDDUP BITCH!

Erm, pardon, realmarco and ner0z, what are you folks up to (especially realmarco)?
Time for some nap or a drink I'd say...

Cheers,
Sascha

I appreciate all the efforts by all the developers here. Ik, Ian W., Stefan, Bram, and so many more. I'm a 'newbie' with Orion, and it's great to stick in a .DLL bring it up and start playing it from my MIDI Keyboard. Also to use my voice bank buttons, I can go through 8-128 presets and get a good idea of what whatever synth is capable of. I was kinda dismayed when I first encountered Ganymed and Vivaldi, and many of Ian's great creations. Great synths with great features and gui's - but what makes these stand out amongst Free Alpha, CM101, Crystal? And due to all our MTV 30 second attention span now, I'll twiddle knobs on Phat Chap hoping for that ultimate bass sound in 20 seconds and then say 'I don't know what the heck I'm doing on this crazy thing!' and shut it down. But a synth with just a handful of presets, I can say 'Sweet, boring bass, COOL!, what the heck was that? Oh, try a little AT, oh yeah!' Not that they have to be patches made by Brian Eno either. But I think Ian has learned 'if you're going to make a freebie, you gotta sell it a bit than sell it short.' And I was happy to see Stefan include patches in VivaldiMX as well so I could get a better scope quickly of the vastness of this great FM synth. And hopefully Ian and Stefan don't think it's 'too much of a chore to do up some voices to keep babys like me happy.'? It add's to extra promotion when we come
back and say 'Oh man, did you check out RealMarco's strings, NICE! I liked Teksoniks Synth 1 stuff the best. Ian's got this great guitar patch you gotta check out.' and so on. Next week it will be another synth, another patch bank by Audiowhore, and on and on.

So just chill everyone, maybe Stefan will come back to a shamed and patient KVR forum and join us once again - PC and MAC versions, and have a good sense of humour with everyone. Or he could tap in at anytime to this topic and say 'Look at these A-Holes go, man - I'm glad I split when I did!' We're all sad, we're all pissed, and we're all sorry to see Stefan go. Let's just leave it at that , huh?

Once upon a time, to some of you as far away as the concept of the stone age, when I bought my very first synth, a mini-moog... Man, was I disapointed when I had it unpacked and setup. I felt robbed, heartbroken, disapointed, disgusted !

It took me about a week before I got my first decent self-made sound out of the damn thing - some of you say they play around for half an hour with a VSTi synth demo- helloo !!! a bit of perspective please !!!.
Do you think there were any forums .. leave alone a moog website. Any user feedback ? Nah ... all that luxury was simply not available in those analog dark-ages.

After a month I managed to even remember the settings of all those knobs for the ten killer sounds I had come up with by then. (Backups where done on paper in those days!)

Persistent little bastard that I am I just went on, became a relatively appreciated synth programmer - not the place to brag, here is it ? - and some 9 months further on up the road I invested in an ARP Oddysee.
Man, If you think the PC versus MAC discussions of now are new ... by buying an ARP I was a traitor - I always had this talent of alienating my so called peers. So I dropped out of the mini-moog club, I never subscribed for anyway and I was also susp to the ARP user community - and in the old days those were real world communities as opposed to our comtemporay virtual ones.

Anyway, I was fortunate enough to be the one making money from and with my synths whereas the others were just preaching the Moog or ARP gospel. Now, several decades, a load of hardware synths, a couple of bankruptcies and a lot more - of what life seems to have in store for all of us - later ... I am still programming. More and more VSTi lately.
Just about anything I can lay my hands on and throw my bank account at to speak. Commercial, shareware , freeware it doesn't matter.

What does surprise me is the general attitude towards VSTi. Even computers and music in general. What amazes me is the fact that somehow most people do not seem to want to pay their dues. Anybody thinking they should be able to use that synth they just bought right out of the box - no matter how hard spectrum and crimsonwarlock and whoever I may forget here will do their best - that is simply not ever gonna happen. If you are not willing to learn - in the broadest sense of the word - and to pay your dues as they say, and become experienced in what you're doing then you might wanna take up fishing instead. Although you may just lack the patience required for that anyway.. so find another hobby.

I have gone through various bankruptcies - the stuff some banks throw at ya sometimes - so I know to some extent how Stephan could be affected by what happened at his company. I lost everything I ever owned more than once, including all my gear ! I can very well relate to the heartship it might have caused.

What is obviously a contemporary mentality problem - one that is NOT only related to the internet as some suggest - but alas! typical for this day and age can be called the "Never enough"-syndrome. It seems as if the word "enough"is about to disapear from our language alltogether. No matter how much instant gratification some developers throw at us - there's always a considerabe amount of whingers and whiners - the preferred cloak of losers in general - that will never ever be satisfied.

Don't think it is about price ! You check out some of the warez sites that have a forum you'd be surprised. Even if they get all the commercial software for free - illegally - the whinging and whining just never stops. You'd expect them to be grateful at least to those hackers that provide them with the 'warez'.... no way ! They get bashed even more than stephan probably ever has been.

(And for the record, yes I do know those warez sites. And I have indeed used some warez before I buy, and I know the different opinions about that, so don't start on that moral crusade again.) All the software I use is paid for. How the hell do you think I'd get any tax deductions otherwise !

Anyway, I wish stephan all the best. He will get over it and get on with it eventually. And maybe some people might want to give some of the synths out there a litte more effort than the 30 minutes I see mentioned so often before they make up their minds or just give up.

The technologiocal breakthrus of the last two decades and the role computers can be playing in music nowadays is absolutely staggering for anybody that has been around for a while in the music industry. But some of our fellow-KVR mates need a bit of what makes a good wine great. Aging !

The apparent lack of dedication, motivation and real genuine interest some people display on these (and other) forums is something no software developer can ever compensate for.

Some of the criticism we like to voice so easily on forums like these is not only misplaced, irrelevant or just downright mean and malicious, very often it is nothing but an expression of our sheer ignorance.

Playing around with cubase and some VSTi's does not quite make you a musician ! The Muse has demands that go far beyond that !
The word a-musement is not in her book !

oomph

Quote:

Playing around with cubase and some VSTi's does not quite make you a musician !

we live and prove, we don't argue, we pick a guitar and play a note, we take a mic and sing a song
what makes and what doesn't make a musician is a completely irrelevant question
paying dues is for people with small dicks. I appreciate every fellow human being that try's to bring some positive vibes
internet boards don't give a representative impression of what people think about the amazing technology of today
the emails that people send to developers and companies are.
on the boards people discuss what could be bettered in products and it's just THAT interaction that gives you the killerapps !
it is the walker telling the cobbler what he finds important for his or hers shoes.
and when the cobbler gives away the shoes for free and someone dares to look the given horse in the mouth the other customers simply have
to talk to the pal about his conduct ... and thats what we do.
pc / mac / linux software emulated sounds is still in a early phase and has travelled miles already
finding a balance in having constructive criticism and honouring developers is important imo

PowerUser quoth paying dues is for people with small dicks. I appreciate every fellow human being that try's to bring some positive vibes

Well to be honest, while I understand where you're coming from on that, PU, I read the original poster as trying to point out that lot of people who have it dead easy, with insanely powerful technology handed to them on a plate, are the first to bitch and whine like spoiled brats because the free toys they've been given still require a bit of effort on their part to achieve anything worthwhile. People who bitch for its own sake ('Oooh this free synth doesn sound as good as my mate's Nord Lead so its shit') as a substitute for creativity.
I think he's right. A lot of people need to spend more than 30 seconds with their toys before they have the right to pass judgement on them. A lot of people complain bitterly over the most trivial stuff, always looking for the next thing to slag off, without ever appearing to create anything at all.

dmholtof wrote:

no matter how hard spectrum and crimsonwarlock and whoever I may forget here will do their best...

I'm honoured to be named in the same sentence as Spectrum, but I'm no developer (well, not in the same sense as Spectrum and others around here). However, I do support the issue in my own way

Your message was a great read and I wholehartedly concur with the content.

oops ... I meant Sonic Reality ... anyway ... your great website and its contents as well as your contributions on KVR do entitle you to some credit ...

Poweruser wrote:

oomph internet boards don't give a representative impression of what people think about the amazing technology of today the emails that people send to developers and companies are.

How do you know ? Do you get to read those emails ? An interesting assumption, but a BIG assumption as well. Have a read thru the developers boards on KvR or even the forums at Steinberg.

And as far as me trying to define what a musician is ... I think you can agree to what I was trying to point out .. and I'm the last person on earth to define anything as subjective as that... so that statement should definitely be taken with some "poetic liberty" .. as I assumed was obvious .. also a BIG assumption .

I'll leave your "paying your dues" comment for what it's worth.

Although .. on second thought .. it does illustrate my point actually .. it's not so much what you got... but how you use it ...

(in my head I hear "It ain't what you do, its the way that you do it ... by the fun boy three and bananarama, which has no relevance whatsoever of course)

Quote:

How do you know ? Do you get to read those emails ? An interesting assumption, but a BIG assumption as well. Have a read thru the developers boards on KvR or even the forums at Steinberg. And as far as me trying to define what a musician is ... I think you can agree to what I was trying to point out .. and I'm the last person on earth to define anything as subjective as that... so that statement should definitely be taken with some "poetic liberty" .. as I assumed was obvious .. also a BIG assumption . I'll leave your "paying your dues" comment for what it's worth. Although .. on second thought .. it does illustrate my point actually .. it's not so much what you got... but how you use it ... (in my head I hear "It ain't what you do, its the way that you do it ... by the specials and bananarama, which has no relevance whatsoever of course)

besides from being a great song not indeed
anyway .. i`ll take your statement with poetic liberty (great expression !)
I guess I understand what you are trying to say.
as for me assuming (and amusing I hope) a hell lot of stuff
yeah well ... at times I feel like a clairvoyant and at times I feel like a blind man. I can only speak for myself and I did send postcards to developers in the past (non virtual) I send my music to them and I tried to be constructive in critics for what they were worth (I am not the most brightest soul in this community but I try sir ) I have seen other people
trying to be positive as well. It is so easy to find yourself some mediocre souls complaining about everything but it's really not very uplifting. I have met people in my life that could come up with a very good synth
sound and complete songs in less then 30 minutes, and I have heared people struggle for hours coming up with inferior stuff ( in my taste and limited vision off what makes up quality) they always cursed themselves
i.s.o the products they were working with. I agree with you that a bad guitarist shouldn't say the martin guitar is responsible for his bad playing. But he has the full right to say to Martin ... you use this or that element
in your guitar and it could be improved. Catch my drift ? As for the paying dues is for people with small dicks statement. Wanting to prove your skills is one thing. Gaining a name with it that suddenly makes you the omniscient God is another. I don't really care if the