Afternoon all,

Having just spent the weekend playing around with the fantastic Drumatic 2, it's got me wondering if I should buy a drum synth. I've got SR-202 which is okay but despite having thousands of drum samples I still found better results from Drumatic. So, what do you all reckon? It seems to me to be a three horse race - LM-4, Attack or DR-008. Cost aside, what's the best of these or is there something better out there that I've missed. I've got Stylus and loads of sample CDs, but they seem to leave me detached from the creative process, even with Phatmatik to mangle stuff with.

Your views would be really welcome.

Anyone else want some of these tasty worms, I seem to have just opened another can......

Drumatic 2 is fantastic, isn't it? I plan on making extensive use of it soon...

I've never tried DR-008, but it's well-respected around these parts, so it's worth a look. You might want to look at Linplug's drum machines as well. Everything from RM-F to RM-3 loads LM-4 kits, too. On the other hand, Drumatic may indeed be the best drum synth out there right now.

-David, currently using Drumatic 2, RM F, and leftover soundfonts.

LM-4, RM-F and RM-III are only drum samplers and not synths. That leaves DR-008 and Attack... while both have extensive drum synth features (DR-008 is a highly capable sampler as well), their design philosophies, user interfaces and sonic characters are very different and my only advice is, "Try them!".

You can check out a fully-functional demo version of DR-008 @ http://www.fxpansion.com ; as far as I'm aware there's no trial version of Attack online, but there are sound demos on Waldorf's or Steinberg's site.

I've had a chance to use Attack, and I own DR-008. I like having a sampler and a drum synth in one. Attack just didn't do it for me, personally, but it is a capable drum synth though, for sure. Personally, I really like DR-008 and highly recommend it considering all that it does. I already had Battery, both the add-on kits for battery, so DR-008 with all its kits made it a good choice for me. Now if Angus will just make it easier to import .kit's.

Any hope for that in the near future, Angus?

Devon

Awave Studio now converts from various formats -- including sf2 -- to DR-008. That helps a bunch.

Jim

Another drum synth worth looking at is picadrum - www.picadrum.de - very nice, especially for electro-style drums.

The interface is a bit small, however. But you can get some nice sounds out of it, and in workflow terms it's akin to most synths with graphical envelopes.

I also use Fruity DrumSynth Live, Drumatic and have Attack on order, so the comparisons will be interesting.

Hope this helps

Out of RM III, ElementP, DrumSynth Live, DR008 and Battery I find myself using Battery the most along with the two expantion sets. But that is because I do more set construction than drum sysnthasis. I really do need to spend some time with DR008 and get comfortable. I do a lot of drag and drop to create kits in battery, sometimes saving sounds I create and mangle to file, sometimes using Phatmatic Pro to mangle slices of a loop before dragging them to Battery.

FruityLoops is probably my must used product for drum synthasis, but again not really synthasis. Instead of DrumSynth Live I just use samples. It is very easy to mangle a sample in FL while using the pattern generator. There is a lot you can do to the wave form while the pattern is running which makes it easy to "tune in" a unique sound.

Robert

Drumatic 2 and Element P make an excellent pairing for electro stuff, and if you get any sample player, you can make up the rest of the kits in that.

I wanted to throw a bit of props to ersDrums by the fellow who programmed Iblit. I've been messing with it a bit lately and am very happy.

For me, I generate tons of original sounds out of Stomper and feed them into Battery, SR 202, or Kontact for advanced manipulation. When I want to go synthetic, I like Drumatic and ersDrums. I have Attack! but I rarely use it. Even though it is a very capable piece, it takes me longer to mangle the sounds in it versus the other VSTs.

Scar Chemik

how's about a "delete double post" option?

yeah, i know, i suck, you're all brilliant.

<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~plattermatic/vsti/blaster.jpg">
http://www.dancetech.com/file-library/PLUGIN/blaster.zip

personally i simply LOVE attack.
i never liked the sound of dr008 and i think its simply totally unintuitive, i still use battery as drumsampler.

get attack, it's not just a drumsynth but a good allround synth as well and it's basses are some of the best in vst out there

and you WILL fall in love with it's interface!

personally i don't like attack, stick with drumatic 2. it has a much nicer out-of-box usefulity. plus oodles cheaper. etc

red

drumatic 2 is GREAT and FREE so if you are on a pc then get it or die

I have both DR-008 and Attack.

DR-008 is very good because it is modular. So if you want a kick drum for example you can just call up a kick drum module which will have been designed specifically for kick drums. It means that you can never tweak it too far away from a kick drum sound which IMO is a good thing. If you wanna tweak away to create that wacky obscure drum sound or effect there are modules that let you do that too (like the drumsynth module). There are plenty of modules (and more to come I hope) to cover most needs.

Attack is good too. It's very good for electronic drums and effects. I do have some problems with it though because I find that I can have a perfectly good drumsound created and then I can make one too many tweaks and it'll be lost. Thats its problem. Because it's not modular, no one part of it is designed around specific drum sounds, unlike DR-008 (or Drumatic for that matter), meaning a much more difficult process of creating your own drum sounds from scratch. You have to really know your drum synthesis techniques and how sounds can be made up. Fortunately there is a nice description of how different drum sounds are created in the manual that comes with it. That'll get you started at least.

If money was no object I would recommend to have them both.

If you can only afford one then I would say DR-008 because it's an all rounder (synth and sampler modules). Plus it has wicked midi learn and randomisation features that'll create some lovely drum sounds in the drum modules and some wacky effects in the drumsynth module.

By the way, the Drumsynth Live! in Fruityloops and the DrumSynth module in DR-008 both use the MDA DrumSynth engine (in case you didn't know) that is absolutely wicked.

As for Drumatic being a free replacement for Attack. This is a silly comparison. While I am not denying that Drumatic is very good (it is my third mostly used Drum Synth) it is entirely different to Attack. For one it has sections for each drum sound meaning that you cannot stray too far away. As I said before this is not a bad thing especially if you do want to be hassled with programming a drum sound from scratch.

This also seems to be something that a lot of people forget. You can use almost any subtractive synth out there to program drum sounds. Some even have drum sound presets to get you started and so you can see how they are programmed. If you wanna see how you are gonna get on with Attack (without a demo being available) then the first thing I would advice is to pick your favourite subtractive synth (e.g. Pentagon and Vaz 2010 are personal favourites of mine for drum sounds) and try and try and create a drum kit using it. If you can't do it or can't be bothered then I would say don't get Attack just now because this is basically a subtractive synth (oscillators, filters etc.) designed for drum sounds. I'd say get DR-008 instead.

Hope this helps!

Some good looking dude called Alex wrote:

I have both DR-008 and Attack. DR-008 is very good because it is modular. So if you want a kick drum for example you can just call up a kick drum module which will have been designed specifically for kick drums. It means that you can never tweak it too far away from a kick drum sound which IMO is a good thing. If you wanna tweak away to create that wacky obscure drum sound or effect there are modules that let you do that too (like the drumsynth module). There are plenty of modules (and more to come I hope) to cover most needs. Attack is good too. It's very good for electronic drums and effects. I do have some problems with it though because I find that I can have a perfectly good drumsound created and then I can make one too many tweaks and it'll be lost. Thats its problem. Because it's not modular, no one part of it is designed around specific drum sounds, unlike DR-008 (or Drumatic for that matter), meaning a much more difficult process of creating your own drum sounds from scratch. You have to really know your drum synthesis techniques and how sounds can be made up. Fortunately there is a nice description of how different drum sounds are created in the manual that comes with it. That'll get you started at least. If money was no object I would recommend to have them both. If you can only afford one then I would say DR-008 because it's an all rounder (synth and sampler modules). Plus it has wicked midi learn and randomisation features that'll create some lovely drum sounds in the drum modules and some wacky effects in the drumsynth module. By the way, the Drumsynth Live! in Fruityloops and the DrumSynth module in DR-008 both use the MDA DrumSynth engine (in case you didn't know) that is absolutely wicked. As for Drumatic being a free replacement for Attack. This is a silly comparison. While I am not denying that Drumatic is very good (it is my third mostly used Drum Synth) it is entirely different to Attack. For one it has sections for each drum sound meaning that you cannot stray too far away. As I said before this is not a bad thing especially if you do want to be hassled with programming a drum sound from scratch. This also seems to be something that a lot of people forget. You can use almost any subtractive synth out there to program drum sounds. Some even have drum sound presets to get you started and so you can see how they are programmed. If you wanna see how you are gonna get on with Attack (without a demo being available) then the first thing I would advice is to pick your favourite subtractive synth (e.g. Pentagon and Vaz 2010 are personal favourites of mine for drum sounds) and try and try and create a drum kit using it. If you can't do it or can't be bothered then I would say don't get Attack just now because this is basically a subtractive synth (oscillators, filters etc.) designed for drum sounds. I'd say get DR-008 instead. Hope this helps!

Oh, forgot to mention. Where do you live? If you are the uk then millenium are doing Attack quite cheap at the moment for £49 ...not bad price I thought. If I didn't have it already I would have surely been pulled in by that price

http://www.millennium-music.biz/home/products.pl?ProductCode=WALATTACK &mode=detail&subcategory_id=PLUGINS&subsubcat=

I still advise to get DR-008 though, but just would have felt bad not giving you this link in case you decided on Attack and ended paying more for it.

Alex - it was your link previously that led me to order Attack... couldn't pass it up at that price. Many thanks

Speaking of drum synth... I will put a free percussion synthesizer on my web site in a few days. It's a personnal project but maybe it could be of some use for other people.

It's called Taiko and it uses substractive synthesis, granular synthesis and physical modelling to generate sounds (but it's not to reproduce accoustic instruments, it's more to create weird percussions).

Nicolas

www.nicolasfournel.com
Free MIDI and audio programs

Gargoyle wrote:

Alex - it was your link previously that led me to order Attack... couldn't pass it up at that price. Many thanks

I actually purchased RMIII and used it for a while with Logic. I was happy with it...it played nice in the sandbox with Logic. Didn't have any problems, but it wasn't really too inspiring.

After Emaple decided they didn't want any more of that evil PC software money, I took the plunge and bought Sonar 2XL. I decided to try the DR-008 that came with it.

"Holy Crap," I thought to myself....this thing is COOL! I am so hooked on the DR-008 that I can't imagine how I lived without it. I mostly use it with big-ass Wizoo drum samples, but have also used it for synth sounds too.

Once you actually use it, you won't go back. (My opinion)

bluemoon

NickSonic wrote:

Speaking of drum synth... I will put a free percussion synthesizer on my web site in a few days. It's a personnal project but maybe it could be of some use for other people. It's called Taiko and it uses substractive synthesis, granular synthesis and physical modelling to generate sounds (but it's not to reproduce accoustic instruments, it's more to create weird percussions). Nicolas www.nicolasfournel.com Free MIDI and audio programs

your audiopaint tool is great fpr some strange percussion sounds as well

Alex wrote:

As for Drumatic being a free replacement for Attack. This is a silly comparison.

i don't think it is that silly a comparison. drumatic lacks a bit of flexibility. big deal. as far as i am concerned it fills the same role in my music nae bother.

i suppose it depends on how far you want to take your drum synthesis.

peace red

When is the Muon creation due? Or is it too much of a sampler and no drum synthasis?

Robert

NickSonic wrote:

Speaking of drum synth... I will put a free percussion synthesizer on my web site in a few days. It's a personnal project but maybe it could be of some use for other people. It's called Taiko and it uses substractive synthesis, granular synthesis and physical modelling to generate sounds (but it's not to reproduce accoustic instruments, it's more to create weird percussions). Nicolas www.nicolasfournel.com Free MIDI and audio programs

Hi Nick

Just visiting this old thread and wondered whether Taiko was finished? I can't see it on your web-site. How is it going? Is it gonna be a VSTi?

Linplug has a package for US$99 or so - RM-3 drum machine (sample player), Element P drum synth, and a good selection of drum kits. It loads LM-4 kits as well.

I'm very pleased so far (I got them in the Linplug bundle along with Delta III, Cronox, and Alpha - but this didn't include the extra Manytone drum kits).

Doug

xoxos wrote:

yeah, i know, i suck, you're all brilliant. <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~plattermatic/vsti/blaster.jpg"> http://www.dancetech.com/file-library/PLUGIN/blaster.zip

I've been known to use (and like) blaster....

There's also these two:
http://www.concretefx.com/Granite.htm

the demo of this seemed buggy but its capable of some unusual sounds

and
http://www.audionaut.com/software/

Fresh killed beat...it's pretty average overall except for the kicks..
for the money its worth it IMO just for the real fat kicks ounds you can get out of it

I second xoxos; he sucks. Luckily his drumsynth modules are brilliant.

I love the DR-008. I also use the Fruity DrumSynth Live!

I haven't too much experience with the LinPlug ones, but I know that Element P is really good for $40

Attack rocks big time with a MIDI controller.

It's hell to tweak with a mouse, the controls are spread so wide and it's too easy to overdo a tweak and lose the sound... but it's incredible when you assign knobs to the filter, envelopes and oscillators. Just set up a simple loop and start twisting the sounds you can jump from sound to another just by changing the controllers send channel. Attack played this way is perfect tool for making evolving and fresh-sounding percussive techno tunes.

However, for quick work, Drumatic 2 is way better, and I guess I'm not the only one who likes the kick sound from it! It's IMO much fatter than Attack's.

Just to add my thoughts:

I bought Element P, and IMHO it's a big pile of steaming dog poo. I use Drumatic, ERS Drums, Kick Me Too and the fantastic DR-008 (along with Slicy and Fill-in Drummer) and all of these piss all over crappy Element P. I haven't found a single use for it yet and I would advise everyone to avoid it like the plague.

There, that's better, got that off my chest.

attack = great for synth drums, presets have alot of nice sounds. Tweaking the knobs by mouse absolutely SUCKS though.

drumatic2 = very good for synth drums, for me lacks enough sound 'slots' and doesn't have any fancy modulation options a la Attack. Still simplicity is sometimes a plus.

dr-008= seems a nice sampler, but I haven't been overly impressed by its synth capabilities in comparison to attack or drumatic. The interface opens small windows that can be non-intuitive.

Personally I'd buy attack and augment it with drumatic2 if you are really interested in synth drums.. If you need a sampler as well then maybe dr-008 is for you.

i just got the free CM-505 an its great
havent stopped usin it


free with this months cm

floyd wrote:

Personally I'd buy attack and augment it with drumatic2 if you are really interested in synth drums.. If you need a sampler as well then maybe dr-008 is for you.

Yes, that's right.....everyone should have them all!!

pakana wrote:

I guess I'm not the only one who likes the kick sound from it!

Definitely not! Drumatic kicks can get very big!