Someone has information about Kiesel Software Helga VST ?

Take a look here...
http://www.simnet.is/kiesel/helga1-en.php

Looks interesting . . nice GUI . .

Possibly the first Icelandic VSTi ?


T.

It's pretty, in fact one of the nicer GUI's I've seen on a shareware product. I wonder how it sounds.

Quote:

Possibly the first Icelandic VSTi ?..

...its probably just the tip of the iceberg..!!

Well spotted Chairman Mao! Helga looks beautiful,just my kind of gui.One to keep our eye on to be sure.

It first came out on a popular computer platform in 1984.
However it soon gained a reputation for being the instrument that was prone to "Reykjavik"... might be a bit obscure, that one

(it certainly sounds and looks nice though)

I second you on that, its sounds & look very good. I'll keep an eye on this one.

damn
I thought that iclandic techno-wackadoo 'aux pan' might have something to do with it.
oh well

I assume any follow up or revision will be known as Helgasdottir ?


T.

you had better believe I sent them an email

Hi and thank you for noticing Helga.

Yes, Helga is the first virtual instrument made in Iceland, and we hope that it's only the tip of the iceberg.

Helga v1 is currently in development, specifically in the last-round beta tests.

Just to clarify a few points. Helga v1 is not shareware and will not be released under any such license. This is not a rehash of an older program, certainly not one released in '84. Helga's original incarnation was a single osc monophonic stand-alone for windows back in '98 that was never released. It's current form has been in development for just over a year. Right now we're betatesting the Intel/Windows/VSTi version. Mac OS X VST and AudioUnit versions are in the works. We're also waiting for a response from Digidesign to join their third party developer program.

Further plugins are also scheduled.

Thank you all for your comments on the GUI. The look of the thing represents what we feel a "analog" synthesizer should look like... analog.

Now that the K-v-R community has noticed us, we will try to keep you all updated.

---
Johann Th. Johannsson
CTO
Kiesel Software.

PS... Tabazan: "the daughter of Helga" in Icelandic is "Helgudóttir".

Hi Johann,
I forgot to put in my email my specs.

98SE
amd 2400+
gig of ram
fruity studio .41
orion platinum 4.0
2496 sound card.
I would really like to beta test this plug-in

Kiesel wrote:

This is not a rehash of an older program, certainly not one released in '84.

Oops.. I guess the humour didn't work there

Johann, it looks and sounds good... and it's certainly created a buzz around here, so best of luck with it. Any ideas on costing at this stage?

So if it's not shareware, does that mean that a) there will be no demo and b) it will only be sold in a box? If so, that'll place it alongside Steinberg's no try no buy synths (as in, if I don't get to try it, I won't buy it.)

This seems a little short-sighted for a company that isn't so big that it can rely on in-store sales. I hope I'm just not understanding things right. It looks like a cool synth. But if I have to go all the way to some store and test it on their time, I just can't be bothered. Not when it makes so much more sense to have demos and online sales...

pough wrote:

So if it's not shareware, does that mean that a) there will be no demo and b) it will only be sold in a box? If so, that'll place it alongside Steinberg's no try no buy synths (as in, if I don't get to try it, I won't buy it.) This seems a little short-sighted for a company that isn't so big that it can rely on in-store sales. I hope I'm just not understanding things right. It looks like a cool synth. But if I have to go all the way to some store and test it on their time, I just can't be bothered. Not when it makes so much more sense to have demos and online sales...

Thats a little presumtious, he never said anything like that.

Ouch... this vst is still in beta test and you're thinking about shareware-cost-demo-price and so on... ? I'm interested on feature...

Please... Give them a chance...
The GUI is "crystal-clear". The mp3 demo songs sounds good. So what else ?

Every software house does his best. N.I. has his commercial way, Steinberg has another way...and so on. If don't like it ... don't buy. It's so easy.

So... Kiesel...go on ... and keep them updated.

Quote:

PS... Tabazan: "the daughter of Helga" in Icelandic is "Helgudóttir".

I knew I should have paid more attention in those Icelandic lessons at school

Good luck with Helga, you've certainly got some interested people waiting here


T.

Mighty_Hero wrote:

you had better believe I sent them an email

I sent them an email as well! haven't heard anything, though.

My understanding of "shareware" is "payment is optional". If a feature is missing until unlocked with a payment, that's "crippleware". Payment will not be optional for Helga v1, but that does not rule out a free demo version or on-line purchasing. In fact, we plan to release Helga initially through an on-line retailer with optional CD/Manual and the first thing on the schedule after the final beta test round is a crippled freeware demo.

btw. how do you think a demo should be crippled? with intermittent silence/beep/noise? no save of program data? no assignment of midi cc's?
Let's have your thoughts on this.

...and while I'm asking, which do you favour, linear knob-mode or circular?

An interesting fact:

A Sound-on-Sound study showed that less than 2% of their readership purchased instruments or effects on-line in 2001. This shocked me a bit, I thought musicians were more net-savvy than this (or perhaps they are, but don't trust the net with their credit card info :/ )

About the beta testing.

For some reason, we've been inundated with beta test request from overseas for the last two days. Please be patient if you've sent us an email, everyone will receive an answer.

We were originally only looking for Icelanders for the beta testing. This is because there was no copy protection or registration in the first beta and we need to have a (legally) valid Non-disclosure agreement. This is such a small country (280.000) that anyone asking to be a part of the beta testing can easily be verified (i.e. that he/she is exactly who he/she say's he/she is), and they can't hide their identity. We have no foolproof way of knowing who anybody outside Iceland is, so I guess a bit of paranoia set in. Icelanders are not more trustworthy than anyone else, but at least they know, that if they let someone else have the beta, we know where they live

Beta software DOES contain errors, a lot more than in a release version. A beta from us in the hands of someone who isn't aware of the beta status will give a bad impression of the level of quality of our software. I personnally hate it when software companies do a cost/benefit analysis on debugging and find out that, in the short run, it doesn't pay to weed out the last 5% of the errors (big finger pointed at Microsoft here). The current beta being tested is already more stable than some of our competitors' release versions.

I'm very sorry if you haven't had a response from your emails to us yet,
but they will be answered.

We have received queries from people who were actively hiding their identity (hotmail through a net-cafe). Needless to say, such queries will not be entertained.

Johann Th. Johannsson
CTO
Kiesel Software

---
"Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you..."

Silence/dropouts are fine, but beeps or random noise is a big no-no in my book. A plugin will be automatically removed for making unpleasant noises at me for any reason.

Unless of course, it's my fault that the noises are unpleasant, but that's another story.

Whoops! I'm sorry, Johann. I came across as more critical than I meant to be. It all came down to definition. I guess I don't see shareware as "payment optional." I see it more as "if you want to use it, buy it." You're right that the more common model is really crippleware. I think, though, that crippleware could be seen as a subset of shareware, though.

But I reacted so strongly because your synth just looks so damn cool! I'm looking forward to giving it a try.

I WAS being presumptuous (thanks for pointing that out, Krim) and I WILL give Kiesel a chance (the chairman is right, and for the record I think Steinberg's method is too inconvenient for me, so I don't buy their stuff.)

Thanks, Johann, for listening. My vote is for intermittent beeps/noise (silence makes it too hard to hear the sounds) so that we can test the synth's full potential before buying. Oh, and I prefer linear knobs.

Agreeing with Pu.
'Don't have to pay' is Donationware 'If you use it- buy it' is Shareware 'Large sign saying buy it everytime you click a mouse' is Bloodyannoyingware (don't do it!)
Another good thing in Shareware is you should be able to pass it on, this allows more people to see it and buy it- or not. I like the original shareware idea which is less common than people think.
People have some weird ideas about 'demoware' to my mind.

I am perosonally a fan of the "no save features" demos. For instance, Discovery's demo has been on my system for a while, and everytime I play with it I want to reach for my wallet to buy it, the only thing stopping me is that I'm broke right now and I really can't. This really allows you to PLAY the synths, though to some extent you have to assume the people who try the demo will be honest and not re-route the audio output and record it. But even in that case they won't be able to go in and change something later so it's hit or miss. But personally, knowing that I'm not the type of customer who would do this, I think the "no save features" demo's are the best from my end. Otherwise, I'd say use an intermittent noise burst, but not silence. For some reason I can ignore some white noise in a demo, but the volume drop outs always get on my nerves and don't give me a real feel for the synth.

Kiesel wrote:

btw. how do you think a demo should be crippled? with intermittent silence/beep/noise? no save of program data? no assignment of midi cc's? Let's have your thoughts on this.

For what it's worth, in my experience:

a) intermittent noise/beep oftens scares the shit out of people, besides which some beginners who often don't read up on the demo may think it's a 'bug' (please don't laugh, but once, about 1.5 years ago, I did too - I think it was with Linplug's Delta/Cronox or some other classy synth, I can't remember); also, it can damage a system if one's not careful enough with the volume...

b) intermittent silence is good, but it may (again) be mistaken for a bug;

c) midi cc non-assignment will basically make this synth a quasi-freeware, since a huge portion of users never use that feature anyway;

d) no saving of presets is a good way to protect, as well as saving presets allowed but loading them disabled;

e) also, a useable time limit of, say, 15-20 minutes should be acceptable to most.

Kiesel wrote:

...and while I'm asking, which do you favour, linear knob-mode or circular?

Best: optional user selectable (see rgcAudio's plugins)
Second Best: linear

Kiesel wrote:

A Sound-on-Sound study showed that less than 2% of their readership purchased instruments or effects on-line in 2001. This shocked me a bit, I thought musicians were more net-savvy than this (or perhaps they are, but don't trust the net with their credit card info :/ )

I would be vary of these statistics - or their significance at any rate.

First, the way I see it, the VST revolution really started around 2001, and gathered full force in 2002.

Second, each magazine caters to a particular type of readership; SoS seems to me heavily hardware oriented. I'm certain that the same poll in Computer Music would've gotten a response rate closer to 40-60%.

Third, I doubt just 2% of musicians would be able to support floating giants like N.I. and Steinberg and whatever, while allowing small-scale businesses like Synapse and Imageline and rgcAudio and LinPlug etc. to eke out a decent living as well.

...and fourth, I'm willing to bet your synth that 80% of K-v-R's readership bought at least one plugin in the last 12 months or so...

Kiesel wrote:

Johann Th. Johannsson CTO Kiesel Software

...and finally, I'd like to commend you on your style and the openness you displayed in this forum. I think your posts have done some great marketing for this synth already - intentional or not. And we do appreciate things like this.

I do HATE noises, gaps etc. If I am trying something out I want to groove, not twitch! Also I am disabled/bloody lazy and I don't like time limits, this si one reason why I am not considering Console, because I had a brief look and when I went back a couple of months later I couldn't look at the demo anymore
Sorry, a bit OT

patchworkcat wrote:

... reason why I am not considering Console, because I had a brief look and when I went back a couple of months later I couldn't look at the demo anymore

This is EXACTLY what happened with me! I want to check it out again, but I'll have to pay for it to do that.

Bought at least 1 plug-in last year?
I can think of 7 off the top of my head and thats just vsti
In 2001 I think I bought maybe 2
my studies show that sound on sound is not tuned in

I like drop outs in volume every 30 seconds or so, or just not able to save works too.

as far as me and bluedad sending emails, I was wondering too, but you answered my question.
I don't leak things out so I would gladly sign something, if needed.

I also agree on your thoughts about shareware, but around what price range are you all asking for this synth?

Ok Sir Gary, I received my email reply, and filled it out, so hopefully your email is coming shortly.

Kiesel,

You may want to check these two previous polls regarding demo limitations:
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14918
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17902

'Tick

I am one of the beta testers for Helga, and while I can not say much since it is still in beta, I did knock up a NIN type sound (meant for loud play ) demo using 4 instances that I programmed. The lead I called rough lead, and used the filter from Helga (which I can say is one of the MOST smoothest filters I have seen in a really long time!!!!) the talking bassline, is obviously called just that, the strings were to be present but spooky sounding, and the outro I have no way to describe it, so I called it outro smooth.

enjoy!!

www.members.cox.net/mighty_hero/RudeBoy.mp3

I can confirm, Helga is cool

you guys were all wondering about Helga and krim and I replied



sooooo, is there anything you want us to make sound wise, or a type of format? (as in dance, rap, etc etc etc)

I take it that nobody saw mine and dave's response..........


no questions huh?..........

Agh... I started this thread !!! I want to give my point of view !!! This is my thread !!!

Just kidding...

Linear knobs are much better.
No save and a "low volume buzz" every 60 sec will be ok for the demo...

Kiesel... hard to say but... seems that one Helga Beta testers is not so 'politically correct'. Searching information about Helga on internet landed me on a 0day list with"Helga v1.1b003 Kiesel Software"...

Hard days for software houses.

This is disheartening...

One can, to a certain degree, understand illegal copies of release software, but, come on guys, distributing betas?

You go out of your way to trust someone and you're stabbed in the back. Why should software developers trust anyone?

If any of you find an illegal beta somewhere please download it and email it to us, or let us know where it is.

Johann Th. Johannsson
CTO
Kiesel Software.

that is disheartening to say the least.
what is an 0day list?.......where did you find this site at mao?.........if you post the link, we can find the IP address of that site as well.
If we find the IP address you can then take it up with their ISP company and also figure out based on the beta testers IP addresses, possibly who leaked it......I know I damn sure didn't

All the information I have are on Kiesel hands now.

Can't musicians really wait ?

....oh... a new VST... where? where? disinstall the previous ...search... download... install... It sound like ... no it sounds like ... it's warm...it's cold... oh oh... a new VST... where? where? search... download... install...where? It sound like ... no it sounds like ... it's warm...it's cold...oh on a ne VST.

Where is the music?

bah !

mao wrote:

All the information I have are on Kiesel hands now. Can't musicians really wait ? ....oh... a new VST... where? where? disinstall the previous ...search... download... install... It sound like ... no it sounds like ... it's warm...it's cold... oh oh... a new VST... where? where? search... download... install...where? It sound like ... no it sounds like ... it's warm...it's cold...oh on a ne VST. Where is the music? bah !

Yes, there seems to be a featuritis running, synths have gazillion types of waveforms, 94 different types of filters and whatnot. I prefer that instruments have a character of their own, not to try to be everything to everyone.

btw. We've found the beta tester that leaked the beta, way out in Washington (the state) U.S.A. Needless to say, his account has been terminated. He didn't wait long, we opened on the beta on the 17th, the beta was out on the net somewhere on the 19th, we are now considering action against him.

j.

I'm glad you found out who the leak was Kiesel, that's just a crappy thing for someone to do. I guess it can suck to be a developer at times, being forced to trust a bunch of strangers to be honest. Maybe for the next beta you should just stick to KVR regulars, we're all pretty much anti-piracy.

This is disappointing, Johann. It's a shame that there are those who will so quickly abuse the trust that a developer imparts to a beta tester. While the usefulness of beta testing in real working and varied environments likely provides you with a lot of good feedback (hopefully), the anonymity of the internet must also make one rather wary of granting such trust to people you've never spoken with or met in person. When someone's reputation is not exposed or at risk, some people can justify some of the nastiest things. Hopefully this hasn't dampened your spirits too much.

-Tronam

What an idiot, it cleary says the Beta is encrypted to the tester, so its obvious where it came from...DOH!

"Bump"


Any more news on this

Nope.

What about a no load demo!

You can play, program new sounds and save them, but not load them.

That way you will long to get the full version to hear all your nicely made presets.

Am i crazy or is this a very good idea

OLE

Just got approved as a Beta Tester.
The Gui is amazing.The sound is also very good very analog , sounds similar to my old synths, but I find it as they are, limiting.