| Author | Topic: CamelAudio CA5000! | |||||||||
| Zmies | Posted: 3rd June 2003 05:03 | |||||||||
http://www.camelaudio.com/productsCA5000.htm
 
...and I don't have speakers on my PC at work... -zmies | ||||||||||
| Greedy Soul | Posted: 3rd June 2003 05:07 | |||||||||
No sound examples up there yet anyway. Sure looks like Ben's been busy.
Tim | ||||||||||
| Deuce | Posted: 3rd June 2003 05:09 | |||||||||
Sounds like that Waldorf VSTi released a few months back to me?? Well, except that its not limited by the included samples. | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 3rd June 2003 05:20 | |||||||||
You mean Plex? Plex aint even close to what this puppy will do. | ||||||||||
| Deuce | Posted: 3rd June 2003 05:23 | |||||||||
Damn it Scot....you always tease us like this 
Haven't you got a Solida demo exclusive for us?  | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 3rd June 2003 05:25 | |||||||||
It'll be a while yet, but if ever a synth could do EVERYTHING in a song, well....
(shhh! That's enough. No spilling the beans about anything. Suffice it to say, it will change everything ) | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 3rd June 2003 06:02 | |||||||||
Hi All,
I certainly have. I've been working on it full time (including most weekends) since Christmas. It also makes use of work I did when I was doing research into voice morphing at the centre for Speech Technology Research in Edinburgh. > Sounds like that Waldorf VSTi released a few months back to me?? > Well, except that its not limited by the included samples. There are some similarities with Plex, but the ability to select different aspects of sounds and combine them is just one part of what the CA5000 can do. It can also do morphing, resynthesis, easy-to-use additive, ... Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| Cochrane | Posted: 3rd June 2003 06:24 | |||||||||
Many compliments, Ben, CA5000 will be a must for everyone!
I've seen the page in your site, but when I try to open a full-screen view of the plugin it doesn't work... Many thanks for your hard work: now I have to do a countdown till october... 
Peace, Cochrane  | ||||||||||
| iDavid | Posted: 3rd June 2003 06:50 | |||||||||
I WANT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the first VST I've been really excited about... Ok, well there are some others.... | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 3rd June 2003 07:00 | |||||||||
Hi all,
Glad to hear you're all excited about it - I am too
There isn't currently a full screen view on the website. The graphics are still being refined, and I'd rather not release a full screenshot till they're looking their best. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| Uncle E | Posted: 3rd June 2003 07:18 | |||||||||
Bah, screw the graphics, I want it now!!! | ||||||||||
| Lanstar Zero | Posted: 3rd June 2003 08:40 | |||||||||
Wow - this looks like it will be a very, VERY nice VSTi! I am extremely excited about this one | ||||||||||
| putte | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:00 | |||||||||
indeed!
top-interesting! īhope you have some mp3īs up soon ....
all the best with it, ben putte | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:12 | |||||||||
MUST HAVE THIS NOW! | ||||||||||
| Collusion | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:38 | |||||||||
Scot, you word's good enough for me mate! | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:39 | |||||||||
 | ||||||||||
| putte | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:43 | |||||||||
ha! .... another insider knows about it .... is it good is it that good that is it good or what??
putte | ||||||||||
| spectrum | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:47 | |||||||||
Looks incredible.....very curious to hear the results.
Now that you've spilled the beans Ben, you know we are all going to be bugging you like mad to hear this thing! Get them mp3s up there....no fair to announce with no sounds! 199Euro....are you insane? If this does what it claims, it would easily be worth double or triple that price. Good work....nice to see the tech envelope being pushed. Probably won't run on my Atari though..... 
spectrum | ||||||||||
| prophet | Posted: 3rd June 2003 09:52 | |||||||||
i wish i was good at graphics
what i want to know is, do i get a discount since im also from scotland?
oh, and why dont you elaborate on the 'Sonic Blueprint analysis algorithms and Hybrid Synthesis sound warping technology'. scott might be able to make music with just one synth, but i can make music with just one curry. ahhhh.......  | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:08 | |||||||||
Hi all,
I'm glad to hear you all like the sound of it! Thanks very much for all your comments.
I'll do my best to get going with the mp3s ASAP, though I have to warn it will probably be at least a week or so before I get anything up.
You might well be right. What I actually put up was 199 pounds which translates to 299 Euro. I reserve the right to change this figure, but it gives a rough ballpark.
I'd rather not give too much away, particularly at this stage. Suffice to say it involves a lot of complex mathematics - it isn't just a simple Fast Fourier Transform, as was used in the sounddiver program for the K5000 (I believe). Thanks very much, Ben [/quote] | ||||||||||
| Collusion | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:09 | |||||||||
 | ||||||||||
| aMUSEd | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:14 | |||||||||
CA5000 sounds so boring (I mean the name not the synth) coming from the people that gave us Camelphatpro.
Can't you call it something similarly themed like a Llamatron or something?? | ||||||||||
| putte | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:21 | |||||||||
Damn! Then iīm out too .... | ||||||||||
| Uncle E | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:21 | |||||||||
I think it's pretty cute, actually.
K5000 : CA5000 See? | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:29 | |||||||||
I agree. The name is fine. I knew Spectrum would like this too. So, as you can see, we are all anxious to check this thing out. If it sounds as good as you are describing then it will be something I'd definitely want to have. I just got a K5000 rack (I like that one anyway) but I am always on the lookout for more advanced additive. I am curious how acoustically realistic it can sound with 64 harmonics though. MP3s please. (not that I am impatient).
Oh, and no Putte I am not in on it. This isn't a conspiracy. | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:41 | |||||||||
Okay, at the risk of spilling too many beans, I have heard the resynthesis capabilities used in this thing, and I can say that they are astounding. Utterly mind-blowing. This will be a sound designer's wet dream. Without saying too much, let's just say that I was considering plonking down the bread for a Kyma system, but this one VST (at 199 pounds, no less) has stayed my hand. I think I'll use the CA5000 instead and spend the money on an instrument that does something the CA5000 CAN'T do. If anyone invents such an instrument, that is. | ||||||||||
| pough | Posted: 3rd June 2003 10:44 | |||||||||
Damn you, spectrum! You just keep your big mouth shut, eh? 
( ) | ||||||||||
| VitaminD | Posted: 3rd June 2003 12:18 | |||||||||
hey ben..
so glad you actually (and finally) decided to code a fullblown softsynth..
mail me a beta copy and ill set you up with some mp3 demos do 160kbit sound fine? or do you want 192? | ||||||||||
| brittnell | Posted: 3rd June 2003 13:53 | |||||||||
October?
God, that's going to be the L-O-N-G-E-S-T 4 months EVER...
Anxiously yours, Brittnell | ||||||||||
| Caleb | Posted: 3rd June 2003 21:00 | |||||||||
OK - I read the first paragraph of the news item and I'm already sold.
Sorry all contenders but this looks like it! I'm now putting any CUBE plans on hold as I really think this is the number 1 priority VSTi for me at the moment. Ben, it comes as no suprise that it would be you who would do something like this. I will be very happy to shell out the big bucks for this one. Congratulations! | ||||||||||
| alienesque | Posted: 3rd June 2003 23:12 | |||||||||
is it in any way similar to the hartmann neuron?..sounds like it could be....
are all these calculations done in real time? | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 4th June 2003 04:59 | |||||||||
Hi all,
Thanks for all your posts, and I'm glad to hear you're all looking forward to it. BTW. Thanks very much for all the offers of beta testing and so forth, however I am unable to respond to them all individually. I will in due to course be asking for beta testers and patch designers, and I'd be very grateful if everyone could wait before offering their services - I don't mean to sound ungrateful, its just it would be more time efficient for myself to sort it out in one go at a later point.
Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to try out the hartmann neuron, and neither do I know precisely how it works. However, from what I have read, I would guess that there are a number of similarities.
When you import sounds, this will take some time and this is dependent on how powerful your computer is - it is an offline process. However, the synthesis and morphing is done in real time. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| putte | Posted: 4th June 2003 05:26 | |||||||||
.. ouff! This more and more sounds like the thing i waited for ... the next step in fxīing!
jaja!
putte | ||||||||||
| dr.wackler | Posted: 4th June 2003 05:38 | |||||||||
please, AIFF on mac is a must! SDII wouldn't be bad either. | ||||||||||
| alienesque | Posted: 4th June 2003 06:40 | |||||||||
hi
When you import sounds, this will take some time and this is dependent on how powerful your computer is - it is an offline process. However, the synthesis and morphing is done in real time. Thanks Ben[/quote] this sounds like how the neuron works to...there youve also got to load your samples to form so called 'models'..this also takes a bit of time but then the actual synthesis and morphing is in real time... all the best with it.. | ||||||||||
| alienesque | Posted: 4th June 2003 06:44 | |||||||||
i never get that quote thing to work properly | ||||||||||
| Gargoyle | Posted: 4th June 2003 07:28 | |||||||||
Re: names... surely it's got to be Camel Audio AMOR... as in "love" and as in Additive MOrphing Resynthesiser | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 4th June 2003 07:44 | |||||||||
It lights up your eye like a big pizza pie? THAT's Amor! | ||||||||||
| alienesque | Posted: 4th June 2003 10:26 | |||||||||
hi...another question...how long can the samples be that you can import...be cool if you could import a few seconds of vocals for instance. | ||||||||||
| Uncle E | Posted: 4th June 2003 13:19 | |||||||||
I can test it against the Hartmann if anybody's interested. | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 4th June 2003 13:54 | |||||||||
i can't wait!!!!!!
i'm tired of using supercolider to these morphoring hacks! (since i'm terrible at it!)
hurry hurry hurry .. my wife is an excellenct cook... she has her own baking company.. i will send you food to help you work.. i make my own beer.. it is strong.. i will send you beer to help you work | ||||||||||
| pHz | Posted: 4th June 2003 14:27 | |||||||||
how have you [if you have ?!? ] managed to stop your home brew tasting like shite though ??? back on topic - this [re]synth looks totally awesome - i better start saving up [or at least stop using the plastic for a while]
btw ben - is this the product you were looking for a gui designer for a while back ??? - if it is i WISH id discovered a bit more motivation to submit something [if only youd told me what you had planned !!! ] slainte rob | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 4th June 2003 14:31 | |||||||||
i'm not saying its the best beer.. its just very potent.. and very cheep to make.. | ||||||||||
| pHz | Posted: 4th June 2003 14:41 | |||||||||
sorry for the OT again folks [how unlike me ?!? ] - but -
jdg - proper home-brewed - or from a pack ??? if the former - you got a recipe [my grandad makes great - and VERY potent - wine - but never found a good beer recipe] ??? slainte rob | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 4th June 2003 15:25 | |||||||||
OT alert:
i've done both.. my wife is a cook so she likes the cooking method.. me.. i'm drunk.. i like cheep beer 
i'll PM you the recipe when i get home back on topic. maybe take pre-orders? | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 4th June 2003 15:33 | |||||||||
Pre orders for beer? I don't drink beer. It's too additive. It adds too much around my already ample middle... | ||||||||||
| Mighty_Hero | Posted: 4th June 2003 15:40 | |||||||||
I know you said you will ask, but I would like to beta this, sounds interesting and I have enough waves to try out in it | ||||||||||
| Rozzer | Posted: 4th June 2003 15:58 | |||||||||
This does indeed look like fun. I can't wait | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 4th June 2003 16:26 | |||||||||
Now THIS is why I love K-v-R! Where else can you be discussing the most complex forms of synthesis AND home brew beer in the same thread??? This place is the best. I am serious. Ben, this is cool. I can't wait to see this in action. | ||||||||||
| putte | Posted: 5th June 2003 02:28 | |||||||||
... you hard man have a hartmann?? really?
. . .
..... thatīs nice indeed! Cheers jdg
putte | ||||||||||
| bluedad | Posted: 5th June 2003 02:31 | |||||||||
jdg - share the beer recipe! | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 5th June 2003 06:03 | |||||||||
Hi,
Thanks for all the posts.
Yes - I will do this. Pardon my ignorance, but I take it AIFF is the foremost sample format on Mac? It there much sample content in SDII - why should I support SDII? Is there any point supporting WAV on Mac?
The main restriction on length will be the total number of harmonic envelope breakpoints per sound (ie. 64). This means that very long complex sounds will suffer from quality loss.
Yes - afraid so.
We do intend to take pre-orders, but not until closer to the release date.
Absolutely
Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| jupiter8 | Posted: 5th June 2003 06:25 | |||||||||
It is the standard that Macs use by default. But nowadays it reads wavs just as easily as AIFFs. But since it is the standard, i really think you should implement it.
The only sampler that runs this native is the Digidesign Samplecell. It has quite a library. Protools runs on SDII as well. It can run the other formats but defaults to SDII. And i am not sure but i think i remeber that Logic on Mac defaults to SDII as well. This could be wrong though. It was years since i installed it and if it did i changed it to AIFF.
Absolutley!!!! All the (almost) samples from the web is wav. And a lot of sample CDs. And so on. It would be a crime to the Mac community not to.
The 3 formats are very similar. I am definitley no expert on programming but i believe it is really easy to include all formats. And it will save you a lot of nagging if you do it from the start. | ||||||||||
| emerald tablet | Posted: 5th June 2003 06:55 | |||||||||
hey Ben .... question on the morphing part
is it possible to select time points in a wave where the morphing must start .. filling in how fast it does the morph is it possible to make it morph several times within one waveform in other words ... voice to for instance base sound from point 0:36 to point 0:40 where it goes back to voice ... to point 0:45 where it goes back to base sound etcetera with a possibility to use the markers at the time points as loop markers as well ? perhaps i am getting a bit to overenthusiastic one good morphing tool doing a simple kyma like morph would be heaven already ... not even to mention making the whispering wind in the 3d lord of the rings ..because that part in the beginning of the return of the king sounded so cool i could hear it in my head ... and if only i could make it (the movie will probably be out in January or December again so perhaps we can make it for them )
ok ... have to go .... duty calls again ... but this absolutely sounds very promising Remco | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 5th June 2003 07:04 | |||||||||
No fair discussing both Lord Of The Rings and additive synthesis in one thread! My brain will explode with excitement over these subjects! | ||||||||||
| Caleb | Posted: 5th June 2003 07:21 | |||||||||
I agree. I'm still really excited about this. I just started playing with my Vectron on Creamware again and that's a really nice synth. But CA5000 sounds so cool. I can't wait to download a demo and have some fun. | ||||||||||
| emerald tablet | Posted: 5th June 2003 07:29 | |||||||||
yeah well
but additive synthesis or so to call fine layered synthesis really is the tool to make such super effects for that movie and somehow i am reading the book differently now i know there will be a movie i hear all the lovely effects in my head already and yeah well .. it indeed is to much excitement | ||||||||||
| bluey | Posted: 5th June 2003 16:21 | |||||||||
This sucks, announcing stuff with all pomp and hype and no sound examples, we have seen the pomp and hype before .... and sometimes not delivering.
Enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!! a 4 page thread on a description and small iconic screenshot..... Lets hear some sounds. Bluey. | ||||||||||
| facingdoubt | Posted: 5th June 2003 16:32 | |||||||||
I just read all of this, can't wait to hear some sounds!!! | ||||||||||
| Rabid | Posted: 5th June 2003 18:41 | |||||||||
How can I say this politely? I know. SHUT UP! 
Robert | ||||||||||
| Rabid | Posted: 5th June 2003 18:46 | |||||||||
Any similarities between this and Rolands V-Synth?
Robert | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 5th June 2003 20:19 | |||||||||
Will you have a "Camel light" version? Just kidding. (How about a product called "Toe"? Alright, I'll stop).
So, what you were saying about the 64 breakpoints is that the faster the sound the more accurate the motion of the harmonics will be in general? In the the blueprint analysis does it spit out the data for the additive harmonics only or also for the multiband filter as well? What about for the noise generator? | ||||||||||
| smart | Posted: 5th June 2003 20:50 | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
| stu.macQ | Posted: 5th June 2003 20:56 | |||||||||
You rule Dave ...
(stu.macQ) | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 6th June 2003 05:56 | |||||||||
Not quite. What I was saying is that there is a fixed number of breakpoints per sound (64), regradless of its length. So, if you have a longer sound, you can't represent it in such detail.
It spits out data for the harmonics and noise generator. Not the multiband filter though.
Sorry about this. I will get some sounds up in the near future, and then everyone can judge for themselves. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| oopf | Posted: 21st June 2003 09:08 | |||||||||
Hi Ben,
Any progress on sound examples? I'm really looking forward to hearing this! Cheers, Oopf | ||||||||||
| Mo Verdigast | Posted: 22nd June 2003 02:18 | |||||||||
[quote="Ben [Camel Audio]"]
I just sold my K5000. I'm sure hoping that the CA5000 will make my decision a good one! And I'll add the request for sample sounds! And if you want a beta tester .... | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 23rd June 2003 14:36 | |||||||||
Hi,
Thanks for all your messages. I have now updated the website to include a few MP3 examples demonstrating the resynthesis capabilities of the CA5000 for a variety of instruments. It is now also possible to view a full size screenshot. Head over to http://www.camelaudio.com/productsCA5000.htm Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| pough | Posted: 23rd June 2003 14:40 | |||||||||
Pretty! It would be nice to hear more than just a note or two, though... | ||||||||||
| Mighty_Hero | Posted: 23rd June 2003 14:40 | |||||||||
Hey Ben, looks great and can't wait to hear the morphing sounds.....now onto the demos already up, on these little p.o.s.'s at work, the only noticeable difference I heard was on the oh choir??? 
Did I miss something? | ||||||||||
| VitaminD | Posted: 23rd June 2003 14:44 | |||||||||
could you make the large image as a popup screen... instead of loading up in the main page? (minor annoyance)
However that is THE best GUI and UI I've ever seen imo... bar none. Whoever did your graphics, i hope you keep them for future projects. the resynthesized versions sound almost exactly like their real counterparts... does this mean i can take one sample.. (say your one shot steel guitar) and (resynthed) play it over an octave with it sounding natural ? | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 23rd June 2003 14:59 | |||||||||
Hi,
They are very similar! Some sounds work better than others, though as you can tell it performs well on a variety of material. The choir sound is worse as the method is designed to work with single instruments, whereas there are multiple voices - but it still sounds pretty good, and of course you can also edit these sounds once they're imported - though I'd like to point out there was no hand editing of the ones on the website.
Thanks - I think its good too!
The ability to play the sound an octave up and it sound exactly the like the real thing depends on the nature of the instrument. Some sounds vary in timbre more at different ocataves than others. For example the vibrophone sounds good for a very large range of the keyboard. With the CA5000 it is also possible to record the instrument at multiple pitches, and will morph between the timbres at different pitches to overcome this difficulty.
Again, watch out for this on the website in the not too distant future.
I'll take a look at this soon. Thanks for all your comments - I'm glad you're all impressed the quality of the resynthesis! Ben | ||||||||||
| brittnell | Posted: 15th July 2003 15:00 | |||||||||
Hey there,
It's been a few weeks, and I was just curious (read: antsy) about how things are progressing with your very interesting endeavor. Any morphing examples planned for the near future? Cheers, [/b] | ||||||||||
| VitaminD | Posted: 15th July 2003 15:07 | |||||||||
yeah..
and when does the beta start?
ben must be locked in his office madly coding away with glasses filled with green bubbling liquid and smoke... and the sound of electricity crackling in the background... muah.. muah ha haaa aaa ha ha hahaaaaaa *ahem* or maybe not. | ||||||||||
| brittnell | Posted: 15th July 2003 15:57 | |||||||||
 
Whatever works! | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 17th July 2003 08:06 | |||||||||
Hi,
Things are going well - I've been continuing to work hard. The latest GUI is looking even nicer and better laid out. The main work at the moment is porting the anlysis code from a mathematical modelling language to C++, which is proving rather difficult.
There should be some in the not too distant future. Scot Solida is putting something together.
No firm date for full beta testing yet. It won't be for a few weeks anyway.
You must have been here! I've certainly been madly coding, but the green bubbling liquid just turns out to be peppermint tea
Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| mojogigolo | Posted: 17th July 2003 08:16 | |||||||||
ben - do your old friend mojo a favour and have it work well on an athlon 1ghz. it looks fascinating. | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 17th July 2003 08:26 | |||||||||
man.. scot sure gets all the new toys early | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 17th July 2003 08:34 | |||||||||
Well, not ALL of them!  | ||||||||||
| RegPhoenix | Posted: 17th July 2003 09:18 | |||||||||
Yeah - how about some more eSoundz Freesoundz??? ROTFL All the login bullshit at the new site telling you - "Register and get freesounds" and then still nothing after a piss-takingly long 6 months or something stupid! Get to work! Reg | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 17th July 2003 10:09 | |||||||||
if you ever get to beta test a new kyma system.. i'm driving to colorado | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 17th July 2003 10:26 | |||||||||
You better fill up the tank then...Kyma is coming soon to The Electronic Garden... | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 17th July 2003 10:46 | |||||||||
see you in about 5 minutes | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 19th July 2003 09:37 | |||||||||
is it possible to do timestretching with resynthesis ?
if so CA5000 can do this ? i wanna import a short organ sample and play it longer then | ||||||||||
| prophet | Posted: 19th July 2003 10:37 | |||||||||
id like to do a skin for this. | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 19th July 2003 11:03 | |||||||||
Hi,
It is possible to do timestretching with resynthesis. The CA5000 can indeed do timestetching - you just load up the sample, and stetch the sample out to whatever length you desire. Ben | ||||||||||
| munchkin | Posted: 19th July 2003 12:39 | |||||||||
This sounds similar to DiscoDSP's Vertigo. Resynthesis and all. Is it similar? In what way is it different? Will it eat up CPU? It looks amazing but I just want to find out whether this is as unique as everyone is saying. And the best one to buy. | ||||||||||
| dr.wackler | Posted: 19th July 2003 22:00 | |||||||||
hey munchkin, ever heard of this way to insert a (too) long url into your sig? | ||||||||||
| munchkin | Posted: 19th July 2003 22:23 | |||||||||
WOW! How did you do that dr.wackler? | ||||||||||
| dr.wackler | Posted: 19th July 2003 22:51 | |||||||||
You know, i just find it a little uncomfortable when long URLs on KvR messages cause the need to scroll horizontally to read messages. But nevermind. Cheers. | ||||||||||
| pHz | Posted: 19th July 2003 22:56 | |||||||||
me too
munchkin -
| ||||||||||
| munchkin | Posted: 19th July 2003 22:56 | |||||||||
So how did you do it and then u won't have to scroll horizontally... | ||||||||||
| munchkin | Posted: 19th July 2003 23:02 | |||||||||
Excellent! Still not sure what u did but thanx anyway. I'll investigate further later today. Why don't we have a sticky somewhere explaining how to do this and how to do the quotes with names etc. etc. (which some kindly KVR people showed me how to do some time ago). | ||||||||||
| dr.wackler | Posted: 19th July 2003 23:09 | |||||||||
Apologies Munchkin, I thought you were being sarcastic, since you edited the 'code' off your quote of mine. Anyways, Experimentfour has kindly supplied the information (with this nice white background that makes me scroll even more - and i have no clue how he did this I will have to analyse the quote )
EDIT: Hmm, now it seems to be jdk's location URL or whatever else that makes us scroll... the "code:" tag has nothing to do with it. | ||||||||||
| pHz | Posted: 19th July 2003 23:27 | |||||||||
hey - any questions like this - you can always refer to -
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/faq.php or - http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/faq.php?mode=bbcode slainte rob
btw - the whote background is the
tag - i had to use it to stop the [url][/url] tag actually working | ||||||||||
| munchkin | Posted: 19th July 2003 23:57 | |||||||||
No problem, dr.wackler - I just wasn't sure what you did and now I know how to do it I'm like a kid with a new toy. I tried to do the same at the UAD forum but it didn't work for some reason so they'll have to live with my long url's for the moment. Thanx for the links experimentfour - I'll check them out. | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 20th July 2003 07:29 | |||||||||
It certainly has some similarties with DiscoDSP's Vertigo. Some of the ways it differs from Vertigo are: - it allows morphing between four sources for easy creation of new hybrid sounds - it has multisampling and velocity layering for faithful re-creations of acoustic instruments It also has some similarities with Virsyn Cube - in that it also has easy to use editing. Some of the ways it differs are: - it has resynthesis capabilties (which makes it much easier to create new sounds, without hours of editing) - it has detunable partials, allowing faithful re-creations of acoustic instruments - it has arbitrary amplitude envelopes for each partial (not just attack/decay), also essential for creating realistic acoustic sounds
It shouldn't be too CPU guzzling - a lot of time has been spent on optimization. It all depends on the particular patch, but it shouldn't consume much more CPU than other instruments like FM7 etc. I would of course be inclined to agree with all the people who say it is amazing My advice would be to take a look at the demo/reviews when it comes out in a couple of months, and choose whichever additive you like best.
Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| munchkin | Posted: 20th July 2003 08:48 | |||||||||
I think you've sold it to me Ben - it really does sound fantastic. | ||||||||||
| dynama | Posted: 20th July 2003 12:39 | |||||||||
yeah | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 11th August 2003 14:59 | |||||||||
any news on CA5000 ?
a beta would be very cool argh i cant wait i have dreamed of this years ago | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 11th August 2003 17:24 | |||||||||
Sorry, I've been a bit behind in things. I'll get to the audio demos Ben refers to earlier in this thread later this week (wait until you hear what I can morph my son's voice into!). | ||||||||||
| brittnell | Posted: 11th August 2003 19:33 | |||||||||
Man, I've already got the cash set aside for this one, and it is burning a hole in my pocket.
It can't come soon enough, as far as I'm concerned. Please continue to keep us posted. Cheers, Brittnell | ||||||||||
| Rabid | Posted: 11th August 2003 20:27 | |||||||||
So what is the very latest on a possible release date?
Robert | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 12th August 2003 09:37 | |||||||||
Hi,
Thanks for all the interest in the CA5000. Development is going well - we're still on for a release in October as previously stated. Best get back to the programming
Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| jdg | Posted: 12th August 2003 12:05 | |||||||||
with baited breath, i wait | ||||||||||
| bluey | Posted: 12th August 2003 13:29 | |||||||||
Its all a hoax and a swindle, on the web site they have some samples then they play back the same samples again saying its from the synth engine.
What lies I tell you, this sort of stuff cant be possible
No seriously the samples where .... lame. And seemed to be carefully selected it would appear to make the best of the sound engine. Cant we have some real meat, like a Sax, Piano, Drums and some strings. B. | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 13th August 2003 02:29 | |||||||||
Hi Bluey,
It is true that some sounds can be resynthesised better using this method than others. However, for any sample of a single instrument playing one note it generally works pretty well. This does however mean that you can't analyse an entire vocal phrase or an entire choir/orchestra playing a note - or if you do try to, you will get some weird results. We don't claim that this technique can represent any sound, and I apologise if I ever implied this. The cool thing about the way the CA5000 represents sounds however, is that you can then morph between these sounds and edit them with comparitive ease. Anyway, there will be a demo version available where you can try everything for yourself, and make your own mind up. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 13th August 2003 02:38 | |||||||||
Is this synth similar to the Ultran? Sound a bit like it, especially with the new Additive sounds i got for it. | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 13th August 2003 08:05 | |||||||||
Hi Kriminal,
There are some similarities with the Ultran, in the sense that they both do morphing of sorts, and are able to manipulate real samples. I have never used the Ultran, but I've had a quick look at the webpage describing it. My understanding is that Ultran is really just crossfading samples, rather than doing what I would consider to be true morphing. I suspect that you can't create true morphed sounds, for example, something between a flute and a piano. Also, for example, you aren't able to separate the noise and harmonic components of the sound to create sounds with some componenets of one instrument, and some of another. Basically, Ultran doesn't offer the ability to shape and manipulate sound like the CA5000, as it is in essence a sample playback synthesiser, rather than something with true resynthesis capabilites. Please feel free to correct me, if you think I'm wrong. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 13th August 2003 08:57 | |||||||||
Sounds about right. I was just curious, cos i know fuck all about all these posh synths with their fancy jargon and geek speak
Scots prob the best person to correct you, he's on your team for this and he has Orion too (and he's a geek )
Thanks anyway, looking forward to trying the demo when its out | ||||||||||
| megl | Posted: 13th August 2003 10:15 | |||||||||
Ahhhh - please don't put us up any longer Scot ... please ...
I've been holding my breath for far to long now!!!!
/megl | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 13th August 2003 10:48 | |||||||||
Been working on it all morning! Resynthesis is too much fun...an inspirational source of new sounds! | ||||||||||
| brittnell | Posted: 23rd August 2003 22:26 | |||||||||
I'm sorry Scot, what exactly was it you could morph your son's voice into?
I seemed to have missed the link somehow... | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 24th August 2003 06:02 | |||||||||
any news on CA5000 ??
pls post the screenshots of the effects , morph and easy pages from CA5000 | ||||||||||
| megl | Posted: 25th August 2003 04:55 | |||||||||
Mom! .... MOM!!!!! Scot is teasing us! Please make him stop!
No seriously ... Scot I'm still looking forward to hear the demos - any news? Megl | ||||||||||
| Scot Solida | Posted: 25th August 2003 05:11 | |||||||||
Finally getting caught up after the "worm incident". I have some example morphs that I will post to my site maybe today, probably tomorrow. I think you'll be happy! | ||||||||||
| vurt | Posted: 25th August 2003 06:05 | |||||||||
where were these sounds found/bought/traded for camels(no pun intended)from
sound very interesting | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 25th August 2003 06:20 | |||||||||
No, they are from a new Sound Xpansion CD by Synapse for Orion Platinum, and i believe Scot is making something similar too
Back on topic, i got my name on the list for patch designing for the CA5000, just gotta wait for further instructions...and the synth itself | ||||||||||
| oopf | Posted: 31st August 2003 09:27 | |||||||||
"Any morphing examples planned for the near future?"
Ben [Camel Audio] - Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:06 pm "There should be some in the not too distant future. Scot Solida is putting something together." Scot Solida - Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:24 am "I'll get to the audio demos Ben refers to earlier in this thread later this week" Scot Solida - Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:11 pm "I have some example morphs that I will post to my site maybe today, probably tomorrow."
(any updates?) | ||||||||||
| Collusion | Posted: 31st August 2003 09:48 | |||||||||
At least the gaps between sound demo announcements are getting smaller.....
Come on gentlemen, let's be having you.  | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 31st August 2003 12:47 | |||||||||
Hi,
I'm very sorry for the delay in supplying demo mp3s on the website. I'll drop Scot an email and ask what the situation is. Sorry, Ben | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 1st September 2003 07:49 | |||||||||
pls post some screenshots of the other pages of CA5000 (effect,morph....) | ||||||||||
| oopf | Posted: 9th September 2003 05:30 | |||||||||
Hello!
I've read about the accident Scot had (sorry about that Scot!!!!!) so I can definitely understand the delay in the example sounds. Ben, do you have any sound demos yourself? I'm still very interested! Oopf | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 9th September 2003 07:18 | |||||||||
Hi oopf,
Yes - Scot is of course rather busy dealing with other things due to his extremely unfortunate accident, though I hope he will still continue to be involved once things settle down, as his suggestions have been invaluable throughout development. Meanwhile, I've sent an alpha version out to a number of patch designers, so hopefully one/several of them will be able to do some short example MP3s in the near future. (If any of you are reading this, then it'd be great to receive something from you). Although I could have put some demos together myself, I have had a ruthless policy of devoting myself to programming/project management, in order to ensure that development proceeds as quickly as possible. Sorry for the delay, and thanks for your patience. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 9th September 2003 09:40 | |||||||||
Im still reading the manual but i'll see if i can knock something up soo...ish | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 21st September 2003 13:17 | |||||||||
any news ? more screenshots ? audio examples ? release date ?
wahhh i cant wait longer , mussssssst have this beast | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 21st September 2003 13:32 | |||||||||
Bens got some demo mp3's, up to him when he put them out i guess | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 21st September 2003 13:39 | |||||||||
you are reading the manual of CA5000 ?? where can i get it ? | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 21st September 2003 13:51 | |||||||||
you cant, unless youre on the beta/patch design team | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 23rd September 2003 08:36 | |||||||||
Hi all,
If you head over to http://www.camelaudio.com/productsCA5000.htm, you can now listen to some demo MP3s. Please note that these demos only scratch the surface of what the Cameleon 5000 can do. Also, they do not include any of the sampled content that we are licensing from a certain well known company. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Sorry for the delay in supplying demos. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| moroe | Posted: 23rd September 2003 09:12 | |||||||||
thx for the sound demoīs
will ca5000 released in october or november ? | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 23rd September 2003 10:38 | |||||||||
Demos 1,3 and 4 are fantastic | ||||||||||
| Roman Empire | Posted: 23rd September 2003 10:55 | |||||||||
I just checked those demos, and I gotta admit that Iīm not too impressed about the sound of these morphings.
To my ears, it just sounds like 6 different sounds in a sequence, faded in and out. Iīm sure that technically thatīs not excactly whatīs going on, but if this is what it sounds like, it doesnīt really have a WOW-effect for me. However, I find that resynthesis thing very interesting. Does it just analyze a sample and then it can generate a synthesized sound based on it? Thatīs really nice!!! | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:05 | |||||||||
Firstly, the sounds on the demos are pretty basic, as Ben said. they dont represent the sound quality of the final product. Its still in beta stage, and had a limited number of sounds when these demos were made. Better quality ones will follow, they should give you a better idea. (just got a new version, ill knock something up soon) As for the 'morphing' thing, isnt that what morphing is? changing from one sound to another smoothly so it sounds like 2 sounds fading into each other? | ||||||||||
| CreepJoint | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:11 | |||||||||
Yeah, give us a decent morphing demo, these sounds could come from quite a few syths I have. Youre being too conservative with your source sounds, youre choices are obvious ones that blend together well. Give us some mulching!!!!!!!!!! On a positive note the resynthesis quality sounds really nice and Ive got Kyma and Vertigo to compare it too which are at quite differing ends of the quality scale. | ||||||||||
| Kriminal | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:18 | |||||||||
Like i said, we can only morph what we are given, that will change very soon. Mucho mulching on the way | ||||||||||
| egbert | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:20 | |||||||||
Can the resynthesis system use a set of multi-samples as the basis for a resynthesised patch?
This would obviously be more complex but would help the resynthesised instrument capture more of the quality of the original instrument. If the current version cannot do this, is it planned for later versions? Eg | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:42 | |||||||||
Hi,
We are aiming for October release as originally announced.
It is doing something more complex than simply crossfading sounds. What it is doing is figuring out where all the harmonics of each sound are and then computing each harmonic in the target sound, according to the morph X/Y position. This works better for some sounds than others - in general sounds with similar volume envelopes will morph better than sounds which have very different volume envelopes which may sound more like cross-fading. In this respect the demos could have chosen different sounds in order to make the morphing sound better - instead a representative set of sounds were chosen. The morphing in the Cameleon 5000, is certainly at least as good as the morphing in Cube, since it is a similar process. In addition, even if it does sound like crossfading in some cases, this is still a useful sound design tool as has been demonstrated by synthesisers such as atmosphere and so on. Another issue is what is the correct morphed sound mid-way between sound A and sound B. The answer is that there is no right answer, and if you ask 5 different people you will get 5 different answers (as I discovered when I was conducting research into this at university). Having said all that, I will work on improving the quality of morphing prior to release.
Yes - exactly. The quality of resynthesis is generally pretty good for monophonic single note sounds, which is what its designed to do. Once you've analysed the sound, you can then time stretch it in any way you like, using a breakpoint envelope. You can also add additional harmonics and scale the harmonics of the sound in any way you like. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| Ben [Camel Audio] | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:48 | |||||||||
Hello again,
As Kriminal says, there will a lot more sound sources. As I mentioned we're going to be licensing a load of sound content from a well known company.
Cool - glad to hear it!
Yes. There are two velocity layers, and up to 8 pitch points (ie. up to 16 samples per patch). In addition, each note is morphed between these samples according to velocity pitch, so its possible to get very realistic instruments. Thanks Ben | ||||||||||
| VitaminD | Posted: 23rd September 2003 11:54 | |||||||||
so wheres the beta link? | ||||||||||
| Roman Empire | Posted: 23rd September 2003 12:42 | |||||||||
Excactly! I wanna be convinced that the morphing facilities of this synth will provide me with something useful and unique that I cannot do with any other vsti, which gives me an impression of that thereīs more happening than one fader going up and another one going down. | ||||||||||
| tconrardy | Posted: 24th September 2003 16:15 | |||||||||
Hi all
Being on the sound development team for this product ( thanks Ben) , and after spending several days now with it, creating presets and sounds,I can tell you that we are in for a nice surprize. Just using one waveform, I was able to obtain a multiple of different sounds. The morphing feature sounds great. However it's not for the faint of heart who are used to the "normal" analog simulators ( OSC--VCF-VCA, ect) Although it will have analog control parameters, thats not where the meat is. This is going to sound different, and wi |
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