New VSTi grand piano module released:
http://www.yohng.com/vsti/

Solid sound, effecient CPU usage.

jeez! too many knobs for a simpleton like me

demo sounds wonderful, downloading the plugin now... will give feedback after i try it out.

two minutes of doodling with this plugin were enough to convince me that it's going to stay in my permanent VSTi folder

not as tweakable as MDA piano, but a much fuller sound (and without having to run it through stuff like PSP pianoverb). this sounds wonderful, especially considering it's free. very cpu-lite, and will probably find its way into a fwe of my songs that need realistic piano parts. personally i like a little more tweakability though (decay, tuning, stuff like that) but even without that stuff, this piano sounds great.

edit: one small complaint... if you hold a key, the note continues to drone quietly forever until you let go no biggie, but some people might find that annoying

thanks for the free piano, and keep up the good work!

This is probably the best sounding synthesized piano ive ever heard... under 500$. Great job, this is amazing!

-R bert

For free it's neat... however, if the piano had been tuned "before" the sampling session it could have been even better...

Hello!

>For free it's neat... however, if the piano had been tuned "before"
>the sampling session it could have been even better...

Piano was tuned before sampling session And a bit "honky" sound - is something that is highly desired.

At least, I have created a piano module that I can play myself. I tried Kontakt and Halion with prototype samples - sounded poor and CPU usage jumped up to 100%.

This is not quite rompler - it uses additional technique while generating the sound. No samples can sound like that in 7mb.

As for endless sustain - this is desired either. I'm planning on release of commercial version, that will have parameters to adjust release times, velocity curves and other things....

Thanks,
George.

veeeeeeeeeery nice... good sound, incredibly low CPU usage. Just making its way into my track right now!!! Thanks very much.

PS what price will the full version be?

Hello!

SRF wrote:

PS what price will the full version be?

Times are tough and we have few cool Windows projects (incl VSTi) that we really have to complete to survive. This of course needs funding, as the company cannot sell UNIX sound drivers forever.

Thus I'd rather set some reasonable price for pro version of this piano module, that would give maximum income without scaring users away. I haven't settled down on the price yet. Probably $50, what do you think? Not that much, compared to similar products?

Pro version will include velocity curves/tuning/damping/stereo width and other cool controls, like polyphony and layering control... ...will also have cleaner sound.

Cleaner sound version is developed already - pending for other features to come in. Sound will be exactly the same, but generally more clean (the difference starts at about -40dB)

Thanks,
George.

Nice demo - downloading now

gyohng wrote:

Hello! >For free it's neat... however, if the piano had been tuned "before" >the sampling session it could have been even better... Piano was tuned before sampling session And a bit "honky" sound - is something that is highly desired. Thanks, George.

George, I appreciate the work that you've put into this and the fact that you've made it available to us for free is remarkable.
However, unfortunately, it IS out of tune. "honky" is a not something a piano tuner wishes his tuning to be associated with.
There are beats on every note, very obvious and loud beats. It's so twangy, you can't hear the natural vibrato of a piano using thirds and sixths, 10ths, 17ths etc.
I can't see a jazz or classical artist using this.
I hope you clean it up before you start charging people for it.

I'm afraid I felt the same way when I played it - there's a slight buzz everytime I hit the keys and it sounds a bit mushy (sorry for not using technical terms) and slightly off key to my ears. I wondered if it has anything to do with using a SBlive and KX drivers which means I'm working at 48 khz when i presume the samples in this will be 44khz, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks for the free instrument - it does have good presence and responsiveness - just needs a bit more fine tuning.

bluedad wrote:

There are beats on every note, very obvious and loud beats. It's so twangy, you can't hear the natural vibrato of a piano using thirds and sixths, 10ths, 17ths etc. I can't see a jazz or classical artist using this. I hope you clean it up before you start charging people for it.

I just checked - piano sounds ok together with other instruments, such as atmosphere, guitars, etc...

Could someone send me an URL to an MP3 file, that illustrates this "out of tune" behavior? For me piano sounds perfectly normal, for 44.1, 48 and 96 khz.

This piano sounds exactly like the upright piano I used to play in a practice room. It sounds very nostalgic to me.

Thank you!

aMUSEd wrote:

...slight buzz everytime I hit the keys and it sounds a bit mushy...

Tell me what you think of this comparison, difference is very subtle, still perceptible.

http://www.yohng.com/vsti/test1.mp3

(48khz)

First part is standard piano (that is available). Second one - is slightly cleaner sound, that will be a part of pro version.

(Pro version will have more features like velocity control, stereo width, tuning - no way to demonstrate it right now, because it's simply not ready yet)

Not downloaded it yet but if it is "honky" then tell Peter Gabriel, the slightly out of tune sound is one of his trademark sounds.

Seriously, if 2 or 3 KVers say it's out of tune then it probably is. Sounds promising though. I'm sure you'll sort it.

bluedad wrote:

However, unfortunately, it IS out of tune. "honky" is a not something a piano tuner wishes his tuning to be associated with.

You should know that there is no such thing as a perfectly tuned piano. The nonlinearities of the strings give slighty inharmonic overtones, something which is part of the piano sound (perfectly harmonic sounds are very 'unnatural') but also something that has to be compensated for in some way. Classical piano tuners prefer to stretch the scales - making each octave about 12.05 semitones. This sounds great for solo piano, but when you add other instruments, it can get kind of nasty. The other solution, which seems to be used in this marvelous little plug, is to detune the strings on each note, making the sound 'richer', or 'honky' if you will - thereby 'covering up' these stretched overtones.

bluedad wrote:

you can't hear the natural vibrato of a piano

what the f k is the natural vibrato of a piano???

By the way, did any of you see the movie "Punch Drunk Love"? During the end credits it has a most wonderful orchestration of all kinds of out-of-tune instruments, including piano and accordion and something that sounds like a broken organ. It's made by a guy called Jon Brion, who also did the soundtrack to Magnolia.

More OT, it also contains that marvellous 1980 Popeye song "He Needs Me".

gyohng wrote:

As for endless sustain - this is desired either. I'm planning on release of commercial version, that will have parameters to adjust release times, velocity curves and other things....

Yeah, I found the loopy sustained sound annoying, too...
Another suggestion for the commercial version is, I think a velocity modulated lo-pass filter would be great (like the one in Kontakt) because this piano can't do pianissimo.

Svante wrote:

...it has a most wonderful orchestration of all kinds of out-of-tune instruments...

You obviously didn't check out Metallica's new album.

Kajiki wrote:

Svante wrote: ...it has a most wonderful orchestration of all kinds of out-of-tune instruments... You obviously didn't check out Metallica's new album.

Amen!

Devon

God, just listening to the demo mp3, it sounds out of tune, without even playing it at all. If you only tuned once right before the session only, that was your problem. Sample sessions on a piano require MULTIPLE retunings to remain accurate. It really does sound like an old bar player piano that hasn't been tuned in years though. If I was doing some project for an old 1800's western, it might come in handy, but this piano has VERY limited uses, to me at least.

Devon

I played with this for an hour or so in Tracktion. It sounded very alive to me, very upfront and exciting, not a classical or philosophical sound, but personal and energetic. I'm into 60's sounds and this piano is very 60's to me, Carol King on One Fine Day. That being said, a commercial version is going to have to be lots of diffferent pianos for lots of different people, and I can see this being way too hot sounding for someone making solo piano or very spare classical arangements. I don't know how hard it would be to do tight/loose, cool/hot parameters (could you morph a few different tuned and de-tuned sounds?) but if something like that was 50.00 or even more I think you'd do very well. To me this is a sound and a great sound, and I'm looking forward to your next step.

I actually installed the demo. This this is absolutely horrible. This is WAY out of tune. Hit a C major chord and just hear the dissonance. Or hit a high D#, and it's a little flat. It might be bright, but it's still missing a lot of tone. I actually prefer the Sonic Synth pianos to these, and we know how I feel about Sonic Synth (I loaded them back to back for comparison) I also loaded in my Steinway D, and even the Kawai piano I just got for $32, and I won't even go into it about the difference.

This just really reminds me of those crappy uprights that have been sitting in the back of your jr high music room for years, and nobody has touched it.

But I guess people like stuff out of tune. <shrug> Whatever floats your boat. Good luck getting it to sit in a mix properly.

Devon

Just played it again, listening very carefully. It doesn't sound out of tune to me, just very "alive" with a sound that reminds me of a "real" piano more than most other attempts I've heard. I like it a lot. The acid test is going to be trying to get it to sit in my mix, but even so, loads of potential here I think.

Svante wrote:

bluedad wrote: However, unfortunately, it IS out of tune. "honky" is a not something a piano tuner wishes his tuning to be associated with. You should know that there is no such thing as a perfectly tuned piano. The nonlinearities of the strings give slighty inharmonic overtones, something which is part of the piano sound (perfectly harmonic sounds are very 'unnatural') but also something that has to be compensated for in some way. Classical piano tuners prefer to stretch the scales - making each octave about 12.05 semitones. This sounds great for solo piano, but when you add other instruments, it can get kind of nasty. The other solution, which seems to be used in this marvelous little plug, is to detune the strings on each note, making the sound 'richer', or 'honky' if you will - thereby 'covering up' these stretched overtones. bluedad wrote: you can't hear the natural vibrato of a piano what the f k is the natural vibrato of a piano???

I know there is no such thing as a perfectly tuned piano. I make my living tuning pianos. In this case, I'm not talking about the "stretch" of the octaves. Actually, the octaves sound ok on this. It is the "twang"
the honky sound, that I object to. The purest tone is one string - no beats. Next purest is the sound of a unison - two or more strings. Not supposed to beat.
And the natural vibrato of a piano, is what we call the rolling sound when you play thirds and sixths. I knew that would be asked. You can't hear that pleasant sound, because of the twang. If you want to get into lessons on inharmonicity, we can do it tomorrow. But for now, tuners stretch an octave to match a certain partial in order to reach a beatless octave.
It doesn't bother me if you folks like this. It's unacceptable to me. I don't want an out of tune piano, no matter how nostalgic. I just pointed out, that it is out of tune. I can take a little twang, but not on every note.
I'm glad y'all like it, because George worked hard on it I'm sure.

bluedad wrote:

I know there is no such thing as a perfectly tuned piano. I make my living tuning pianos.

LOL! I love that... Someone who actually isn't talking out of their ass for a change...

You made me laugh, and you can tune my wife's family's piano anytime... We're eventually going to inherit it, and it hasn't been tuned in 50 years (ugh!).

-Garret

I tested it with C-Tuner (a vst plugin) and it's quite in tune. The tones are 'moving' a little. which gives it a 'lively' character, but the loudest peak is really almost accurate. (EDIT: erm .. at least on the middle octave ...) I (still) like it

oops

ok, wouldn't know a well-tuned piano if it bit me up the ass

still like this plug though!

Kajiki wrote:

...I think a velocity modulated lo-pass filter would be great (like the one in Kontakt) because this piano can't do pianissimo...

Yes, Pro version is going to have that. And even more.

bezza wrote:

Not downloaded it yet but if it is "honky" then tell Peter Gabriel, the slightly out of tune sound is one of his trademark sounds. Seriously, if 2 or 3 KVers say it's out of tune then it probably is. Sounds promising though. I'm sure you'll sort it.

Well, I'm myself fan of Elton John/Peter Gabriel type pianos, so it should sound about like that.

A draft arrangement played and mixed in half an hour to show 4Front Piano Module sound within a mix.

http://www.yohng.com/vsti/4fpiano_mix.mp3

i certainly appreciate that we've been given a new free piano vsti to use. (thanks!) also, i think its got a pretty useful sound for certain situations.

however, on subject of this vsti's tuning...
to me it seems that its not just an issue of some notes being slightly flat or sharp (knocking chords slightly out of tune), but that each individual note has a very obvious chorusing effect.

perhaps this was intentional, or mabey its a result of whatever technique was used to make the vsti so efficient?

in either case, i think the pro version will sell better if the chorusing was either eliminated or if we were at least given the option to switch it off. even if it means a higher CPU drain. my reasoning here is that not everyone likes that sound, so you'd potentially gain more customers by offering a less "effected" piano sound. besides, we can always add chorus later if we want.

just my $.02

-ugo

>i certainly appreciate that we've been given a new free
>piano vsti to use. (thanks!) also, i think its got a pretty
>useful sound for certain situations.

You can't play mechanized "rave/pop piano" parts, that's right. MDA piano will suit there.

>however, on subject of this vsti's tuning... to me it seems that its
>not just an issue of some notes being slightly flat or sharp
>(knocking chords slightly out of tune), but that each individual
>note has a very obvious chorusing effect.

That forgotten soft sound... Check Duke Ellington.

>perhaps this was intentional, or mabey its a result of whatever
>technique was used to make the vsti so efficient?

I'll make different piano types, but that's later, after I manage to release first pro version...

>in either case, i think the pro version will sell better if
>the chorusing was either eliminated or if we were at
>least given the option to switch it off.

Pro version of 4Front Piano will allow to control parameters, but what you call 'chorusing' will stay.

I was looking for a FAT piano, I couldn't find one - so I made one. It's not supposed to be thin.

>even if it means a higher CPU drain. my reasoning here
>is that not everyone likes that sound, so you'd potentially
>gain more customers by offering a less "effected" piano
>sound.

Mellotron didn't sound like real strings, but found its use. I bet on the sound my piano module currently has.

I dislike some of the lower note ringings, but in a commercial version this will be effectively masked by velocity->damping control.

>besides, we can always add chorus later if we want.

Well, it's not the chorus effect that gives this sound.

>just my $.02

Opinions are welcome I'll post a poll

bluedad wrote:

I know there is no such thing as a perfectly tuned piano. I make my living tuning pianos. In this case, I'm not talking about the "stretch" of the octaves. Actually, the octaves sound ok on this. It is the "twang" the honky sound, that I object to. The purest tone is one string - no beats. Next purest is the sound of a unison - two or more strings. Not supposed to beat.

Hey bluedad, does the D#5 and D#6 sound in tune to you? They sound a bit 'flat' to me.

Devon

Quote:

Mellotron didn't sound like real strings, but found its use. I bet on the sound my piano module currently has.

true, but then again, mellotron didn't call itself 'strings'
DevoB asks:

Quote:

Hey bluedad, does the D#5 and D#6 sound in tune to you? They sound a bit 'flat' to me.

Sorry Devon, I've already deleted this, as I couldn't use it as it is. I didn't go over and check all the octaves (just a few)They sounded closer in tune than the steinway forte in sonic synth (but still - the twang!)
I really find it amusing, that people who become anal over aliasing in synths, analogue v digital filters, the dreaded dc offset etc don't seem to find the twang in this piano annoying.
Perhaps it should be called thick chorus piano sound (then I would know not to bother with it.)

DevonB, which sample rate are you using?

http://www.yohng.com/vsti/tuning.gif

George, your graph of the d# really doesn't tell me anything about how close the note is to being in tune.
pitch is measured in hz or cents not db

bluedad wrote:

George, your graph of the d# really doesn't tell me anything about how close the note is to being in tune. pitch is measured in hz or cents not db

Both peaks have the same horizontal position. Horizontal axis - is Hz.

Piano peak is a bit wider, because I have taken "hold max amplitude" option, and measured it over about 4sec.

gyohng wrote:

DevonB, which sample rate are you using? http://www.yohng.com/vsti/tuning.gif

44.1k samplerate. My Steinway D and Kawai sound perfectly fine in Gigastudio as well.

Devon

bluedad wrote:

Perhaps it should be called thick chorus piano sound (then I would know not to bother with it.)

Even my chorused piano on my Yamaha W5 synth sounds better than this though. I used to remember the day back in 1997 that I used to think that the piano on the Yamaha sounds AWESOME. Man, that was a long time ago.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

bluedad wrote: Perhaps it should be called thick chorus piano sound (then I would know not to bother with it.) Even my chorused piano on my Yamaha W5 synth sounds better than this though. I used to remember the day back in 1997 that I used to think that the piano on the Yamaha sounds AWESOME. Man, that was a long time ago. Devon

Giga Steinway D sounds like a smeared garbage for me.

Can I have a sample MP3 of what you call 'perfection' ? Probably the whole question is not about quality, but tastes.

I learned not to believe every buddy that tells you 'you suck man', sometimes it's just a matter of a preference. No product can satisfy everyone.

gyohng wrote:

http://www.yohng.com/vsti/tuning.gif

The frequency of the fundamental doesn't really say much about the percieved pitch (you can filter it out and the pitch will be the same). The proper way of measuring the pitch of pseudo-periodic sounds like piano is by taking the autocorrelation and finding the peak, that will give you the wavelength. Invert that number and you will have the pitch.

Bluedad, is it really so strange that people prefer unperfect music? Take tubes for example, why do people like that sound? Tubes distort the signal, but it reminds people of the 'warmth' of old recordings. The same thing with this piano, it's kinda out of tune in the same way that a lof of old and funky records are. Try playing salsa-style octave riffs.
Sweet!

Svante wrote:

gyohng wrote: http://www.yohng.com/vsti/tuning.gif Bluedad, is it really so strange that people prefer unperfect music? Take tubes for example, why do people like that sound? Tubes distort the signal, but it reminds people of the 'warmth' of old recordings. The same thing with this piano, it's kinda out of tune in the same way that a lof of old and funky records are. Try playing salsa-style octave riffs. Sweet!

Glad you're happy with it, Svante.

Not so much that I'm happy with it --- rather that I'm dissatisfied by all the other computer pianos I've tried. We've got a (tuned!) Steinway C at work, nothing will ever beat that...

Bluedad, what's your favorite virtual piano?

Ok, taste is usually non-debateble, but what I have a problem with, is the inconsistency of these samples. The worst offender is the key-range of 54-57 (F#2 - A-2, as far as I can tell this range is 'one' sample), specially in comparism to the notes above and below that range...

Other points that I dislike is the unnatural sustain and missing velocity splits or filter (the tone of the sound is the same at all velocities, which is not how a piano behaves).

What I like though, is the latency of the plugin... the samples are triggered very fast, better than most other plugins...

Svante wrote:

Not so much that I'm happy with it --- rather that I'm dissatisfied by all the other computer pianos I've tried. We've got a (tuned!) Steinway C at work, nothing will ever beat that... Bluedad, what's your favorite virtual piano?

You'll have to refresh me on the Steinway C, not familiar with that.
(B or D maybe?)
mda piano has a cleaner sound.
gigasampler steinway is awe inspiring (even played on my dx7 keyboard I could close my eyes and dream I was on the real thing!)
right now, I usually use the Yamaha in Sonic Synth. or the blue daddy piano on the SS bonus disk (steinway forte from SS with the octaves cleaned up a bit with my data) although, to be honest, lately none of my stuff has piano at all
Look, this piano vst may work well in many situations, and cut through a mix (no doubt). If people want a piano that sounds like it hasn't been cared for in years, that is a matter of choice. I am not anal about piano sounds (I am happy with SS pianos).
I just could not imagine this being used on Steely Dan's 'Aja'
As for old records and their out of tune pianos, back in the old days, tuning the piano was low on the priority. Thank goodness things have changed.

what aspects of the instrument are actually synthesized? is there any provision for body/string resonances? i certainly don't represent the norm, but i much prefer using a physically modeled instrument to an extensively sampled one..

..take the body off amd mic each string in an anechoic chamber, then rebuild it in virtuality

lol, settle down boys

First of all, Bluedad, I am not a piano tuner but I know that vibrato is not the correct term for the periodic sound of detuned intervals. It is called beats just as with unisons and octaves. Vibrato is a variation in frequency, beats amplitude. Also I found it interesting that you couldn't understand the db/hz graph. If you are going to blast someone with your technical expertise it'd be good to have things straight.

To the developer -- maybe you should consider calling it 4Front Funky Fat Piano or something to keep piano purists from getting worked up. Also, trashing other developers' products is unprofessional and will generally get you a negative response.

btw, all synth pianos sound like shit compared to a real one.
I know this because I've played one

Quote:

..take the body off amd mic each string in an anechoic chamber, then rebuild it in virtuality

erm..yeah..!
what he said!
(at least would be different)

fr0zen wrote:

lol, settle down boys First of all, Bluedad, I am not a piano tuner but I know that vibrato is not the correct term for the periodic sound of detuned intervals. It is called beats just as with unisons and octaves. Vibrato is a variation in frequency, beats amplitude. Also I found it interesting that you couldn't understand the db/hz graph. If you are going to blast someone with your technical expertise it'd be good to have things straight. btw, all synth pianos sound like shit compared to a real one. I know this because I've played one

I'm not talking about detuned intervals. Vibrato is what you hear when you play a third, or sixth. In the middle of the piano, it is a nice round, pleasant sound. As you progress up the scale it gets faster. I'm sorry I used the term, but it was used frequently by a famous piano tuner/teacher in the Piano Techs Guild (of which I am a member)
Why would it be interesting to you that I didn't understand the graph?
I'm not sure that you do. And I wasn't 'blasting' anyone, in ref to it.I'm afraid all I can agree with you about is the part all "all synth pianos sound like shit compared to a real one." Whether you've played one or not, I don't know, but you're dead on here.

ok, just a friendly discussion -- maybe i'll learn something...

'I'm not talking about detuned intervals. Vibrato is what you hear when you play a third, or sixth. In the middle of the piano, it is a nice round, pleasant sound.'

Vibeato is all about detuned intervals. It's funny that you should call this a 'pleasant' sound, because it is a sound that results from the interval being... out of tune!

3rds 6ths and 7ths do this because they are the most out of tune intervals in equal temperament.

fr0zen wrote:

ok, just a friendly discussion -- maybe i'll learn something... 'I'm not talking about detuned intervals. Vibrato is what you hear when you play a third, or sixth. In the middle of the piano, it is a nice round, pleasant sound.' Vibeato is all about detuned intervals. It's funny that you should call this a 'pleasant' sound, because it is a sound that results from the interval being... out of tune! 3rds 6ths and 7ths do this because they are the most out of tune intervals in equal temperament.

ok.

Have to agree about the apparent "chorusing" effect (I hear it strongest in the bass). Might be better to create a clean sound and then let us apply effects, instead starting with a single sound that not everyone needs.

bluedad wrote:

fr0zen wrote: ok, just a friendly discussion -- maybe i'll learn something... 'I'm not talking about detuned intervals. Vibrato is what you hear when you play a third, or sixth. In the middle of the piano, it is a nice round, pleasant sound.' Vibeato is all about detuned intervals. It's funny that you should call this a 'pleasant' sound, because it is a sound that results from the interval being... out of tune! 3rds 6ths and 7ths do this because they are the most out of tune intervals in equal temperament. ok.

Gah... Come on bluedad. Is that a he is right , or is it he is wrong ?

Quote:

3rds 6ths and 7ths do this because they are the most out of tune intervals in equal temperament.

Quote:

Gah... Come on bluedad. Is that a he is right , or is it he is wrong ?

no, I digress to frOzen here. Just because me and 3000 other piano tuners in the US tune a temperament (the middle octave and starting point for a tuning) using mainly thirds and sixths, I suppose we've been wrong the whole time. (shit, no wonder those old records sound so funky)
btw, we are talking about equal temperament here because that is what western music is based on. It is not perfect, but it's the best we can come up with to work in all keys.
and my biggest complaint with this vst - is the twang.

my biggest complaint is the egos

fr0zen wrote:

my biggest complaint is the egos

right!

fr0zen wrote:

btw, all synth pianos sound like shit compared to a real one.

And even the real ones are slipping . . . Have you played a brand-new Yamaha or Steinway lately? Rather disappointing, particularly for the cost.

As much as I love the sound and feel of a real piano, the excellent quality of some sampled pianos is an absolute godsend to most of us from a recording standpoint. Of course if I had a Bosendorfer Imperial, a sound-proof studio with acoustic treatment to deaden reflections, top quality mics and preamps and a dedicated piano technician, I'd never touch a sampled piano again!

fr0zen wrote:

If you are going to blast someone with your technical expertise it'd be good to have things straight.

But fr0zen, you were unfair to Bluedad. I've definitely heard the term "vibrato" used in piano tuning ("beats" is obviously common as well, and I've even heard the term "shimmer" used), and the term "vibrato" is not always confined to variation in pitch frequency. Modern flute vibrato, for example, is largely a variation in amplitude as opposed to pitch.

bah, I was hoping the issue was closed
Now I feel obliged to respond..

I agree sampled pianos are useful.
But they don't respond like a real piano and I don't expect them to.

Secondly, I objected to Bluedad flashing his creds and giving the impression that this synth had some fundamental deficiency that made it useless to anyone who knew better.
The fact is it is not out of tune -- it just doesn't have a pure piano tone.
There's a difference, just like there is between vibrato and beating.

If you are a master piano tuner and you want to call it vibrato that's fine, but it's inaccurate. And it's worse if you use both terms as if they were two different things. Plus he failed to accurately explain his use of the term when he was questioned about it.
Anyone who cares can read about equal temperament and piano tuning -- it's really not that complicated and something a musician should know about.

I have steinberg "The Grand" and i have sonic synth and mda piano...and a lot of piano soundfonts and do you know what...

I´ve allways wanted a non perfect piano to give some of my songs this "old" sound like the mellotron does and 4Front piano does that if you allso filter some of the highs away.

I allso love the sound of "The Grand" but it is so damn perfect, and things shouldn´t allways be like that.

My opinion

OLE

fr0zen wrote:

bah, I was hoping the issue was closed Now I feel obliged to respond.. I agree sampled pianos are useful. But they don't respond like a real piano and I don't expect them to. Secondly, I objected to Bluedad flashing his creds and giving the impression that this synth had some fundamental deficiency that made it useless to anyone who knew better. The fact is it is not out of tune -- it just doesn't have a pure piano tone. There's a difference, just like there is between vibrato and beating. If you are a master piano tuner and you want to call it vibrato that's fine, but it's inaccurate. And it's worse if you use both terms as if they were two different things. Plus he failed to accurately explain his use of the term when he was questioned about it. Anyone who cares can read about equal temperament and piano tuning -- it's really not that complicated and something a musician should know about.

I was hoping this would be closed, but since I was named, this has become a little personal.
All I have have stated in these posts, is that if you hit 1 (one) note (pick any one)on this vst - there is a distinctint (and quite loud) twang. That is a fact, and that is what makes it out of tune. This makes it useless to me, and I've stated over and again, if people like it for that effect - that is fine for them. I can understand the desire for a piano sound along the lines of what the mellotron did for strings.
As for vibrato, I explained what I meant by that - and also that I wasn't the originator of the term in the context that I used. But I will explain. Piano tuners set up a temperament in the middle - most modern tuners use the fast beating thirds and sixths. I personally like to use a variation of the "Defebaugh F-F temperament" after, of course, George Defebaugh. It was he, who used the word "vibrato" in describing how we take the temperament with the object of spreading it across the piano. If he wasn't a master tuner, then I don't know who is.
vibrato and beats - they are the same things in the context being used.
I'm afraid through all of this - perhaps I've come acoss just as anal as those who argue about aliasing etc. I didn't want to do that, because I'm not. For example, I'm content with the pianos in
Sonic Synth, where there are some others who are quite unhappy with them.
But Frozen, you named me specifically. tsk tsk.

no hard feelings

I think things have been clarified well enough.

back to making music...

Makes for a killer rendition of "Benny the Bouncer", anyways . . .

fr0zen wrote:

... To the developer -- maybe you should consider calling it 4Front Funky Fat Piano or something to keep piano purists from getting worked up. Also, trashing other developers' products is unprofessional and will generally get you a negative response. ...

At least, I'm honest. I don't think other products are bad... I needed piano for my live performances, I made one... 4Front Piano is free, 7mb opposed to gigabytes. People decide.

People encouraged me to release Commercial Pro version, and that's what I'm going to do soon.

Thanks, and good luck!