Hi, which VSTi would you recommend to get the TB303 sound? Either freeware or not, doesn't matter

Thanks in advance!

This is kind of off-topic, but I think they should change the nickname for the TB303 to "Can of Worms".

Give this thread a couple days, to understand why...


Good luck in your quest!


[/b]

there is no such thing as a 'best'... please stop with the 'best' threads..

if its emulated.. there is always going to be several opinions and ways to look at what is considered 'best' ....




i think thats what brit meant with the can o' worms thing too.....



that said.. wait a bit for the latest recreations to be released before you make your OWN decision.. tau2, freebee vsti, and creakbox vsti....

Not sure why noone ever mentions TBL Bassline by REfx (or is that reFX?)
gives good acid-head if ya know what I mean!
always E-Z to get that creaky-crusty-growly-oozy type sound that people seem to like. It is kinda elderly at this point, but it is updated every once in a while, and it is four part MULTI TIMBRAL ( full automation and editing on four seperate TBL's at once (for super noobeez))
Also, the oscillator is top notch - "little, yellow, different..."

same question again and again.
Best is Rebirth, no good vsti atm.

easymode wrote:

same question again and again. Best is Rebirth, no good vsti atm.

You know, I just posted a question...thanks for the people that gave me some synth names btw.
But please if this thread bothers you for some reason, would you just ignore it, please?

Quote:

But please if this thread bothers you for some reason, would you just ignore it, please?

Now there's a thought......anyway Rebirth is a big pile of poo. (I don't really think that but I like a good argument)

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

If you use the "search" function up above, and type in 303 (or TB303), you'll get an idea of why.

It ranks right up there with "Mac or PC", if you know what I'm saying...

[/b]

Quote:

Not sure why noone ever mentions TBL Bassline by REfx

Just because it doesnt sound at all like a tb303.
You should go here
http://user.it.uu.se/~mija7327/vintage.html

and listen to this :
http://www.student.tdb.uu.se/%7Emija7327/demo2.mp3

Thats a very good emulation, and its beeing ported to vsti.

easymode wrote:

Thats a very good emulation, and its beeing ported to vsti.

ported? how can you say ported? the guy lost the code, there's no way to "port" the thing any more. chances are the vsti won't sound anything like the standalone(I do hope it will, but there's no guarantee at all).

Just try out some stuff and decide for yourself what you think sounds the best.


then go amd spank yourself for starting this demonic thread

Kriminal, I would go and choose the one that I think that sounds the best if I knew the names of the synths which to base my comparison!

That's what I was looking for, people's opinion on VSTi's that are supposed to be close approximations of the 303, that's all.

I know there won't be an agreement among everybody, and I wasn't looking to start a battle or anything, only your personal opinion on the best emulation.

Thanks

Rebirth - pretty cool, but not a VSTi (I think?)
Tau/Tau Pro - good for basslines, but not really a 303 emulation.
ReFX Claw - Good sound, free, still no 303.

IMO - Reincarnation/Reborn is really good, that's because it uses 303 samples and a simple SE GUI. I can't find a link to this but if you track down fellow KVR member Sealed, he can help you out as it's his baby.

This may start a storm here but
Why one should need an EXACT 303 emulation? I mean, most synths mentioned in this thread have a decent and charachteristic sound of their own, if some of them do sound like a 303--good for them, if not--what's wrong?

kvaksha wrote:

This may start a storm here but Why one should need an EXACT 303 emulation? I mean, most synths mentioned in this thread have a decent and charachteristic sound of their own, if some of them do sound like a 303--good for them, if not--what's wrong?

I'd guess it's something like if you make electro without a TR-808 (emulation)

Well, Drumatic doesn't emulate 808--but it's a perfect drumbox IMO

Quote:

I'd guess it's something like if you make electro without a TR-808 (emulation)

Like playing Hendrix cover not using Stratocaster

michu wrote:

Quote: I'd guess it's something like if you make electro without a TR-808 (emulation) Like playing Hendrix cover not using Stratocaster

oops, nevermind.


!

bluedad wrote:

i don't think stevie ray vaughn used a strat for "voodoo chile', at least not when I saw him in '91 gave me chills!

I'm not doubting you at all bluedad, but I thought SRV always used a Strat You just blew my mind

Zythum wrote:

bluedad wrote: i don't think stevie ray vaughn used a strat for "voodoo chile', at least not when I saw him in '91 gave me chills! I'm not doubting you at all bluedad, but I thought SRV always used a Strat You just blew my mind

oh you're right. I'm sorry, it's early and I've not had enough coffee (obviously!) but I can't think of who I saw playing that with some big gibson! thanks for calling me on the Zythum!

are there still people using a TB303 sound in a classic way "dadadadada" ?? Please nooooooooooooo!

What are you doing with a TB 303? It was in every 2nd house and techno song in the 90ies, it is overheard.

If ya still want it take Rebirth, or wait for yet another clone from Muon.
I think he worked hard on a new clone....

e-modic wrote:

are there still people using a TB303 sound in a classic way "dadadadada" ?? Please nooooooooooooo! What are you doing with a TB 303? It was in every 2nd house and techno song in the 90ies, it is overheard. If ya still want it take Rebirth, or wait for yet another clone from Muon. I think he worked hard on a new clone....

So what? If I like that sound I don't care if it's overheard.

And I know Rebirth, but the subject of the topic said VSTi, and Rebirth is not. I wanted a VSTi, in Rebirth you need to render to wav's or use the annoying rewire to switch between 2 programs all the time

Well, I remember a post about a 303 ensemble for Reaktor 4, You can count that as a vsti, but I haven't heard it, is it good ?
BTW, How hard can it be to emulate a simple synth as TB303

Quote:

BTW, How hard can it be to emulate a simple synth as TB303

Yeah it must be piece of piss, that's why there are so many good emulations on the market........

I didn't mean simple soundwise, but the arcitecture of the synth, it should be that hard to emulate.. When the software people have gotten so far that they have emulated GOD-like synths like Moog Modular and so on, then why not make a good vsti emulation of 303 ?

Ok, heres a few freebies that can get you the acid/303 sound. Just do an instrument search, up on the top right of the page

Dirtbox - Experiment 4
Claw - reFX
JX10 - MDA
PD-303
Quacker
Sawbox
Tau - Muon (get it while its still about, soon to be discontinued)
Triangle I or II - rgcAudio

Try em all out and see what you think.

safeaim wrote:

I didn't mean simple soundwise, but the arcitecture of the synth, it should be that hard to emulate.. When the software people have gotten so far that they have emulated GOD-like synths like Moog Modular and so on, then why not make a good vsti emulation of 303 ?

I agree with you, a synth that apparently is very simple, and several people in this thread already mentioned that Rebirth STILL the most authentic emulation, and Rebirth is what? like 4 years old at least!

Thank you Kriminal for the suggestion

CypherOne wrote:

IMO - Reincarnation/Reborn is really good, that's because it uses 303 samples and a simple SE GUI. I can't find a link to this but if you track down fellow KVR member Sealed, he can help you out as it's his baby.

Here it is:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/nextbestthing/webadvert.htm

I definitely agree with you, too, not only is this the most authentic 303 emulation mentioned but it is also the most characteristic. The price is fantastic, too.

Quote:
"Here it is:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/nextbestthing/webadvert.htm

I definitely agree with you, too, not only is this the most authentic 303 emulation mentioned but it is also the most characteristic. The price is fantastic, too."

the page cannot be found.

If Propellerheads want to make some extra cash they should convert Rebirth into a vsti or implent it in Reason.

Thanks to cypherone and Eric for the compliments

I have been trying to do a decent website , still trying !!!!!!

The previous one was down for a short while, but is back up now. I had to change the name because the old one is cached on my computer and won't go away.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/nextbestthing/newwebadvert.htm

There is a demo here, the sf2 is an older one before the noise reduction, the samples are now totally quiet (not even BBE can bring out the smallest bit of hiss now !).

Any questions, feel free to ask.

sealed@ntlworld.com


Eric, your cd will be flying from Scotland today.


cheers


Eric

I know I already answered, but some more good ones came to mind. These are ALL FREE, so quite painless to try them out;

There is one more VERY good acid/monosynth called Leto (emu of Italian manufactured Jen SX1000) I use this one happily, and absolutely Love the basslines it produces, as well as nice leads.

Also, an absolute MUST is the EFM synths; really good virtual vintage gear, including a remarkably spot on recreation of the ARP Odyssey. I get the impression that it is a type of sound, rather than an EXACT copy that most people are after when they reference the TeeBee. In my opinion these should definately be checked out for possibilities.

Here are the links:

http://www.contralogic.com/ <--- Leto

http://www.ele4music.com/synthedit/synthedit-2.html <--- EFM

Cheerz, m8! Hope you find what you are looking for

Quote:

How hard can it be to emulate a simple synth as TB303

....in a word, "very". It can be easy enough to create a one oscillator monosynth with a LP filter, but from there getting to actually sound and respond like a real 303 is a whole other matter

Regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

sealed wrote:

Thanks to cypherone and Eric for the compliments I have been trying to do a decent website , still trying !!!!!! The previous one was down for a short while, but is back up now. I had to change the name because the old one is cached on my computer and won't go away. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/nextbestthing/newwebadvert.htm There is a demo here, the sf2 is an older one before the noise reduction, the samples are now totally quiet (not even BBE can bring out the smallest bit of hiss now !). Any questions, feel free to ask. sealed@ntlworld.com Eric, your cd will be flying from Scotland today. cheers Eric

compliments....hmmm

Just tried the demo and I don't think I've ever tried a worse VSTi. The sound was also terrible.

I don't know what the samples are like (e.g. Halion format) but the SE thing is not good.

Gosh there's still people who think Rebirth is the closest TB emulation out there? ... Rebirth is far of sounding like a real TB (and yes I got one)

In Sealed's defence, my view with regard to VSTi's is more focused on the sound they make rather than how they look. Yes the GUI isn't particularly pretty, but I can operate and I know what everything does, besides it's only really a sample player.

However, if pretty GUIs are important to you, don't but this product.

Fairly simple really.

CypherOne wrote:

In Sealed's defence, my view with regard to VSTi's is more focused on the sound they make rather than how they look. Yes the GUI isn't particularly pretty, but I can operate and I know what everything does, besides it's only really a sample player. However, if pretty GUIs are important to you, don't but this product. Fairly simple really.

I didn't mention the GUI....the sound is crap. I'm not saying this is the samples....but there is definitely something not right there. I'm not trying to slag off the samples...I am saying there is a problem with that VSTi.

Fair enough, no problem at this end. Maybe the demo's a bit duff, because I really quite like this product, although I don't need a 303 sound that often.

"I don't know what the samples are like (e.g. Halion format) but the SE thing is not good"

Emmmmm the samples are there in the sf2 file, Homer.

I had a loan of a 303 a few weeks ago and had a chance to compare the two - they were exactly the same.

I noticed you said you thought the 303 reaktor ensemble sounded fantastic

"I must admit this sounds pretty fucking good indeed. Oh yes"

Nothing like a tb303 mind you, have you ever heard one ?

I hope this isn't going to be another piece of e-sabotage like the previous one .

Alex

Have you had a chance to try out tau 2 - do you prefer the sound of that - maybe you just like the sound of digital synths ?

sealed

I tried the sf2 in FL SF Player and it sounded better although I obviously could tweak the sound in the way it was designed. Maybe Seal would like to update the demo. It's really not a good advertisement for the product if it really is any good.

sealed wrote:

"I don't know what the samples are like (e.g. Halion format) but the SE thing is not good" Emmmmm the samples are there in the sf2 file, Homer. I had a loan of a 303 a few weeks ago and had a chance to compare the two - they were exactly the same. I noticed you said you thought the 303 reaktor ensemble sounded fantastic "I must admit this sounds pretty fucking good indeed. Oh yes" Nothing like a tb303 mind you, have you ever heard one ? I hope this isn't going to be another piece of e-sabotage like the previous one .

Get off your high horse Sealed. I said I am not dissing your samples. The demo you have provided sounds awful. Maybe its a bug in the SE engine. There are loads of issues. For example if you take the VCF half way up then the sound cuts out altogether....is the full version like this?

Quote:

There are loads of issues. For example if you take the VCF half way up then the sound cuts out altogether....is the full version like this?

I thought it was supposed to...only joking, I've not noticed this behaviour in the version I've got.

Take the reso right up and then lower the cutoff and all you get is some nasty bleeping and the sound keeps cutting out. This is not good.

Alex

I will update it just now and get back to you. There may be something wrong with that soundfont, it is months old.

All I have done is used the soundfont oscillator in synthedit to play it back. I also compared it to the Halion version and it sounded exactly the same to me.

It's not as if there is any technology there that could go wrong apart from the aforementioned soundfont oscillator.

I have had excellent reports back from people who do own or have owned a real 303. Eric Dahlberg has just been sent a cd, I would respect his opinion myself, he seems to be very experienced and knowledgable. We'll see soon enough

or is that vcf supposed to be positive and negative only. If so why the hell didn't you use a switch. Not even sure it is that. Can't understand why it cuts out in the middle.

if you pan hard to the left all you get is distorsion

There is definitly only two settings to that vcf. Above and below the red line give different responses and on the red line has no sound at all. What is for sure is that there is definitly no smooth response to this parameter.

No offense but I don't wish to beta test this product for you. 5 minutes with it and I see its unsuitable for what it is trying to achieve. You might have good samples (according to your site) but this engine does them no justice.

Surely though there are *obvious* limitations to using a soundfont of 303 samples in this way.

You can't glide, because when you bend the sample up or down the harmonic content and note length will change too - if you've got resonance quite high in the sample, the resonant frequency will bend up and down with the pitch. Since the sample gets shorter when you bend up, you could run out of sample without reaching the target note on the glide!

Also, you can't tweak any of the controls mid-note, because you can only select the sample to be played at the beginning of each new note. When playing a real 303, the controls react instantly in four dimensions on the sound. I just don't see how you could program a realistic, flowing 303 line with knob tweaks etc. You also can't emulate the residual currents in the 303's envelopes that give the sequences their unique "pulse". These are very important to the way the accent works also.

....I could go on, but it will look like I'm slagging Sealed's product in favour of Tau2.

Let me therefore balance my comments by saying, if you play a one-shot single note sample of a 303 it is going to sound measurably more like a 303 than a digital emulation playing the very same single note. This will apply to any and all digital emulations, Tau2 included.

Regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

Yes, this is why I said that your sf2 sounded good on the FL SF Player but of course I couldn't program a realistic 303 bassline this way. I agree with Dave, there's no way that I would use this over Tau.

And yes I did like that Reaktor ensemble (its even better with the latest update ) and I agree that it doesn't sound exactly like a 303. I did think it stood up very well against the other 303 emulations about at the moment though and I liked the fact it had an authentic step sequencer...but thats another discussion that I think we have done to death

Oh, Dave, while you are there. I just programmed a beautiful 303 line with Tau using the FL step sequencer. Probably wouldn't have been able to do this using the TB-303 step sequencer as it's less visual (can't see an overview of what the pattern is like in the same way you can in a piano roll). I think I am warming to the idea of not having a step sequencer

Quote:

I just programmed a beautiful 303 line with Tau using the FL step sequencer

I found an argument actually in favour of a step-sequencer so we could even be meeting in the middle. The issue for me is that some hosts don't allow 1/32nd notes

The 303 sequencer has a strange quirk - it cuts each and every note short by exactly 1/32nd of a beat. It's easy enough to program an authentic 303 line in Cubase (set snap to 16 and quantise to 32) but I tend to import MIDI files into Fruity 'cos I can't find the quantise setting in the piano roll....

Regards
Dave

Alex wrote:

compliments....hmmm Just tried the demo and I don't think I've ever tried a worse VSTi. The sound was also terrible. I don't know what the samples are like (e.g. Halion format) but the SE thing is not good.

This is the kind of thing that gets so tiring about these analog vs. digital debates, you've got all kinds of people who're so used to using Tau & Rebirth that their frame of reference is skewed. I'm all for appreciating VSTi's as having a special sound that has a place & a purpose, but please recognize that they are not the same thing as the originals before you start flaming somebody's work.

Uncle E wrote:

Alex wrote: compliments....hmmm Just tried the demo and I don't think I've ever tried a worse VSTi. The sound was also terrible. I don't know what the samples are like (e.g. Halion format) but the SE thing is not good. This is the kind of thing that gets so tiring about these analog vs. digital debates, you've got all kinds of people who're so used to using Tau & Rebirth that their frame of reference is skewed. I'm all for appreciating VSTi's as having a special sound that has a place & a purpose, but please recognize that they are not the same thing as the originals before you start flaming somebody's work.

If you read the posts correctly I think you'll find I am faulting the VST engine and not the samples. There are definitely issues with it. I think Sealed understood this and is trying to fix this. Try reading the whole thread

"If you read the posts correctly I think you'll find I am faulting the VST engine and not the samples. There are definitely issues with it. I think Sealed understood this and is trying to fix this. Try reading the whole thread "

Alex, there is nothing wrong with the engine, the problem is that you didn't read the manual - there is MEANT to be a gap in the samples because it is a demo. I don't read manuals either.


You and other detractors here are making another mistake if you think this is a new product, I have been selling it on ebay for some time and everyone who has bought it (including several ex 303 owners) seem to be very happy with it.

That was my beta testing if you like, selling it cheap to people who would complain if there was something wrong with . I am being totally honest when I say I haven't had one single compaint.

My second last customer has had 45 commercial dance music releases. I don't want to mention his name but he frequents the Universal Audio forum and he used to own a 303 but didn't like the midi upgrade and sold it. There are a few ex 303 owners (and one current one) who now own reincarnation.

I have put up the new demo with a smaller gap, different samples in a different place, have a listen if you want to. Put the bpm up to 140 as well.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/demo.exe

What does the manual mean when it says play back the sequencer and you will hear a nice filter sweep? What sequencer?

EDit: just found the .mid file. Can hear any filter sweeps though

Alex, it means the sequencer you loaded the midi file into, that's all.

"You can't glide, because when you bend the sample up or down the harmonic content and note length will change too

Absolutely true, the built in digital glide sounds not too bad.


"Also, you can't tweak any of the controls mid-note, because you can only select the sample to be played at the beginning of each new note."

True

When playing a real 303, the controls react instantly in four dimensions on the sound. I just don't see how you could program a realistic, flowing 303 line with knob tweaks etc. You also can't emulate the residual currents in the 303's envelopes that give the sequences their unique "pulse". These are very important to the way the accent works also.


Dave, I have read your purple prose with some amusement before on your website. Does Tau 2 use cold fusion or is there an improbability drive engine or what. Do you have any education qualifications that would lead us to think you understand what you just said ?

It is genuinely too silly to even comment on, however in the spirit that all publicity is good publicity. let someone provide a typical 303 sequence midi file with a filter sweep. I will play it through reincarnation, you play it through tau 2, let's see what sounds more like a 303.

Alex, I've heard the demos you did of that Reaktor ensemble, they sound pretty good compared to Tau & the like but they're nothing like the real thing. That awful digital distortion is the dead giveaway every single time.

Dave, while you've got a good point about the loss of control in the sampled version, you've got to admit that the current "modelled" versions are inferior enough that the compromise is worth it. I look forward to hearing the progress you've made with Tau2, though.

Eric, you can count me as being one of those customers with a real 303 (as well the Syntecno, MAM, & Will Systems versions).

Quote:

Do you have any education qualifications that would lead us to think you understand what you just said ?

Yes...but I think that you haven't actually understood what I have said.

Think of a mathematical model with four dimensions: Cutoff frequency, Envelope Decay, Envelope Modulation Amount and Resonance. No improbability drive required - all possible ways the 303 could respond lie along those four axes of the model. When you've sat and sampled your 303 to make Reincarnation, you would have sampled various points in that four dimensional space.

The problem is, that when I change a control input into the model, I'm expecting an immediate response - because that's what the 303 does. In your model, you can't select another sample till the next note.

I'd be more than happy to provide a MIDI file and show you what I mean. We're using a MIDI file here that matches a simple pattern set up on the 303. If you want a copy, PM me.

Regards
Dave

Watch out, Sealed, there are many people on this forum who prefer the sound of Tau to the real thing. Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting my copy of Halion 2.0 & using its Waldorf filters w/ Reincarnation.

Uncle E wrote:

Alex, I've heard the demos you did of that Reaktor ensemble, they sound pretty good compared to Tau & the like but they're nothing like the real thing. That awful digital distortion is the dead giveaway every single time.

You obviously never read posts through fully. If you check that thread I did supply a mp3 without the distorsion as you requested. You obviously never saw that.

Eric

I actually have reincarnation in Halion format too using mega trigg to manipulate the filter/sample with the mod wheel. I can send you it if you like.

You're right, I missed that. Thanks for letting me know, I'll head over there now!

Yes, please do. Are you using sample switching for accents, as well?

Dave


I have a maths degree and a post grad in computing from a real (Glasgow) university as I said before, I know what dimensions are, but you were trying to blind us with science - no ?

Why dont you put my modulation.mid midi file through tau 2 and see what you get. It does depend on the type of music and the length of the notes of course. When it comes to fast bass trance lines, reincarnation even blows away a real 303 when you stick the sample through unison - unplanned, but a very pleasant surprise.

sealed wrote:

Dave I have a maths degree and a post grad in computing from a real (Glasgow) university as I said before, I know what dimensions are, but you were trying to blind us with science - no ? Why dont you put my modulation.mid midi file through tau 2 and see what you get. It does depend on the type of music and the length of the notes of course. When it comes to fast bass trance lines, reincarnation even blows away a real 303 when you stick the sample through unison - unplanned, but a very pleasant surprise.

I still don't here the filter sweep thats supposed to be in modulation.mid....or have I got that wrong?

brittnell wrote:

This is kind of off-topic, but I think they should change the nickname for the TB303 to "Can of Worms". Give this thread a couple days, to understand why... Good luck in your quest! [/b]

Now I understand what u said in your post brittnell

I should have thought twice before starting this thread

can you change that demo. Add the missing samples so we can check out the vcf response. At present it is very annoying to demo. I am sure in SE you can add demo limitations in other ways. Maybe a different waveform too would be nice.

and can I make sure I understand this.....you have to load different patches in order to adjust resonance??? Not very tweakable is it?

Alex

There a six levels of resonance, to change them all you have to do is click the button on the left hand side. The sf2's in the full version have all 6 in the sf2. I sent eric an extra cd that allows you click a button to change the decay as well.


To explain, this is a sample cd with a vsti front end. The filter is very responsive to modwheel, not quite as good as a digital vsti, I admit, but excellent nevertheless. The demo has 51 samples, some of the real ones have 99, so they are twice as responsive, but too big for a demo download I think.

The thing is, it sounds fantastic, like a real analogue synthesiser. which costs about £850 (tb 303) when it is midied up, this costs £14. Eric has a real 303 and two first class clones, and he obviously believes reincarnation is useful to him.

There is no reason to fall out about this if you prefer to use tau. People who want a real 303 wil probably go for reincarnation, those that want a fully featured digital vsti will prefer tau 2, no hassle.

Sorry, if I put in all the samples, I think a lot of people would be happy just to get one authentic 303 sweep, that's why I created it in the first place.

cheers


Eric

cant believe how anal people get over 303 sounds. do people evenlisten to acid much anymore?

I don't think they do listen to acid, but a 303 is capable of a lot more than acid sounds, it is excellent for fast trance bass lines too. for example

Anyway, you could say the same thing about guitars - do people listen to rock music any more, I don't, but a lot of Americans do, and who am I to say they are wrong.

Sealed

(Taking the anality to a whole new level !!!!!)

sealed wrote:

Alex There a six levels of resonance, to change them all you have to do is click the button on the left hand side. The sf2's in the full version have all 6 in the sf2. I sent eric an extra cd that allows you click a button to change the decay as well. To explain, this is a sample cd with a vsti front end. The filter is very responsive to modwheel, not quite as good as a digital vsti, I admit, but excellent nevertheless. The demo has 51 samples, some of the real ones have 99, so they are twice as responsive, but too big for a demo download I think. The thing is, it sounds fantastic, like a real analogue synthesiser. which costs about £850 (tb 303) when it is midied up, this costs £14. Eric has a real 303 and two first class clones, and he obviously believes reincarnation is useful to him. There is no reason to fall out about this if you prefer to use tau. People who want a real 303 wil probably go for reincarnation, those that want a fully featured digital vsti will prefer tau 2, no hassle. Sorry, if I put in all the samples, I think a lot of people would be happy just to get one authentic 303 sweep, that's why I created it in the first place. cheers Eric

So can the switching of resonance patches by the button be automated. I can't see reference to midi cc in the manual so I assume not. This isn't very good. Also it sounds like if you click on the reso button it will take the resonance up a level (in the full version) - but what if I want to go up a couple of levels and then back down. You would need two buttons to do this patch up and patch down. You oly provide 1 which means we will have to go up to full resonance before we can load the lower resonance patch again (or vice versa depending on which direction the switch changes resonance).

Quote:

have a maths degree and a post grad in computing from a real (Glasgow) university as I said before, I know what dimensions are, but you were trying to blind us with science - no ?

No, not at all. Just trying, in my clumsy way, to express something that is obvious to me and probably you but maybe not to other people. Relax, I have an MSc too from a real university (Westminster)

OK, to the test. I've sent you the MIDI file in your email, here's the 303 playing the riff first with an upwards filter sweep:

http://www.muon-software.com/temp/303_sweep.mp3

...and here is Tau2 doing its thing:

http://www.muon-software.com/temp/tau2_sweep.mp3

Looking forward to hearing Reincarnation.

Regards
Dave

Alex

You can't control the resonance with midi, I could provide a switch that goes both ways, but preferred it the way it is for cosmetic reasons, I'll think about changing it though

I think you are slightly missing the point here. As I said before, this a unique sample cd that gives musicians a lot of control of REAL analogue samples, it's not digital - it sounds a LOT closer to the real thing. The difference in sound is important to me and those that think the same way will be (hopefully) interested in re-incarnation.

Canofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofworms canofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofworms canofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofwormscanofworms!

sealed wrote:

Alex You can't control the resonance with midi, I could provide a switch that goes both ways, but preferred it the way it is for cosmetic reasons, I'll think about changing it though I think you are slightly missing the point here. As I said before, this a unique sample cd that gives musicians a lot of control of REAL analogue samples, it's not digital - it sounds a LOT closer to the real thing. The difference in sound is important to me and those that think the same way will be (hopefully) interested in re-incarnation.

Yes, but ReIncarnation lacks the control and tweakability of the real thing...you just admitted that, which means that you cannot program realistic 303 lines with it. How can you if you cannot automate all of the parameters? Each individual sound might be exactly like a real 303 (coz they are samples obviously) but unless you can program basslines with parameter changes then whats the point.

Hmmm, I think I prefer kittens.

Alex

You cannot automate any of the parameters on an original 303. You can't automate the resonance of a 303 even with a socket set, So, once again re-incarnation sticks close to the original 303 .

Is someone paying you to carry on like this ? That's about 15 completely unsolicited derogatory remarks on the trot. Thanks, great publicity for reincarnation. Cheque's in the post.

mojogigolo wrote:

cant believe how anal people get over 303 sounds. do people evenlisten to acid much anymore?

Yep, shit loads, and there are plenty of 'em makin it too, with or without the crappy TB-303.

Check out Stay Up Forever, Smitten, Routemaster etc labels to see some of the artists. There is a huge acid techno scene going on.

sealed wrote:

this a unique sample cd that gives musicians a lot of control of REAL analogue samples, it's not digital

How can a sample be not digital?

A sample is digital yes, true, absolutely - indeed it is. No 24 bit 44.1khz setting on a minimoog.

Even elephants are digital if they're on TV, though.

Ibn quoth How can a sample be not digital?

You've never heard of the guy who's been working on his TB303 emulator based around a Mellotron and a shitload of valves... Called 'ReallyBloodyCreakyBox' ?

sealed wrote:

Is someone paying you to carry on like this ?

Damn I've been sprung.

sealed wrote:

That's about 15 completely unsolicited derogatory remarks on the trot. .

I just don't think your product is all you make it out to be. I have problems/issues with the demo so am entitled to ask you about them. You seem to have a problem with this then you shouldn't be in this market.

sealed wrote:

Thanks, great publicity for reincarnation. Cheque's in the post.

Oh, here comes the sarcasm.

Just becasue someone has questions about your product and issues with the demo you get all defensive. Doesn't say much for what your customer support will be like.

sealed wrote:

You cannot automate any of the parameters on an original 303.

No, but you can tweak the resonance up and down when you like. You can't even do that with your samples/VSTi. Instead you have to take the resonance in one direction only, and even this has to be done by patch chanes. What's the point.

Alex

I have sold a LOT of cd's you are the first person to have trouble with it, so my technical support experience is zero. I was a college lecturer for more than 10 years, so I am pretty good at explaining things and very nice to people, generally.

I have never seen you behave like this before about product announcements. It just seems a bit odd that you should criticise every detail of this one.

I genuinely wasn't being sarcastic by the way. I followed squids early career in stirring up arguments about sonic synth - tons of free publicity. Lots of people trying the demo.

This was not a product announcement...it was a thread discussing the best TB-303 Emu. Check the title and the first few posts. You came into this thread to advertise your product. I am saying that I don't think that your sample VSTi is very good. The samples may be top quality (who knows) but the VST/sample combo certainly isn't a good emulation of the TB-303 unit as it does not function like a real 303 at all. You can't even tweak resonance up and down. I haven't gone to your company forum dissing your product. This wasn't a product announcement it was a discussion on the best 303 emulation which you bught your product into so for me to state that I don't think it is very good is fair game.

sealed wrote:

It just seems a bit odd that you should criticise every detail of this one.

Not every detail. Just those that would stop me buying this sample cd.

Saying you don't like it is ok, saying it is complete crap because you hadn't read the manual isn't fair at all.

Changed my mind.
whatever, maybe it just doesn't mean fuck-all.

To be fair, Alex, it was CypherOne who first brought up Reincarnation. Uncle E provided a link. It was only after that that sealed stepped in - just to thank the other two.

Sealed, I can't help but get the feeling that you're much better natured than your posts let on. I think maybe you should add some emoticons that let people know you're arguing in good fun, if that is what you're doing. Otherwise you do come across as rather uptight.

ug

pough

Thanks for defending me, I certainly wouldn't have got involved in this thread if I hadn't been mentioned. There have been plenty of other threads I didn't . I do read KVR every day. I did call the 303 a girl's synth and compared it to My Little Pony on another thread last night. Just showing I'm not taking things too seriously.


Emoticons don't work on my computer, and I also have to log in every time as well. KVR does't like me (cue crying emoticon)

This what happens when I try it

So, yes I have been mostly light hearted, and I suspect that might have caused some problems. Irony is my favourite tool.

sealed wrote:

Emoticons don't work on my computer, and I also have to log in every time as well. KVR does't like me (cue crying emoticon) This what happens when I try it

If you have javascript enabled and cookies enabled on your browser then these are profile settings. Click "Profile" up at the top to set this stuff. There is an "always enable smilies" setting. As well, each time you type a post there should be a checkbox underneath the text entry field to enable/disable smilies.

sealed wrote:

Emoticons don't work on my computer, and I also have to log in every time as well. KVR does't like me (cue crying emoticon)

Also there was a change awhile back that requires that you delete any existing KvR cookie first then redo the remember me bit.

I'll try the emoticons now - don't think so - I will investigate soon. I'll also delete the cookies, thanks for that too.


Here is my filter sweep from Dave (Muon's) midi file.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/sweep.mp3.

It's at 140bpm which is closer to the speed most people actually use for 303 stuff (acid is often faster).

and a small file showing that reincarnation can be tweaked and is very responsive. Has bass from reincarnation too and drums from vsampler. Quick, cheap and nasty.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/tweak.mp3


Not that anyone is still awake to hear it I suppose (smile !!!)


sealed

Emoticons !!!

You need to take the trailing '.' out of the URL of the first MP3, sealed.

Or, I suppose I could... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/sweep.mp3

sealed wrote:

Alex ...I was a college lecturer for more than 10 years, so I am pretty good at explaining things and very nice to people, generally.

Why do I find it difficult to take this remark seriously? I have seen very little in your contributions to KvR to promote this view of yourself. I've been following these threads to conclusion ever since they first started showing up and it doesn't feel like much has changed. Tell me if either of these scenarios sound familiar:

* KvR thread emerges with "303" in title. Sealed comes out of nowhere to use this as an opportunity to sell his product. People criticize said product. Sealed goes on a defensive that's neither measured or humble, but rather prideful and arrogant. Tempers rise. Civility exits stage left. Immaturity takes the stage.

* KvR thread emerges with "303" in title. Someone mentions Sealed's product. Sealed, who's ego has now been stroked, joins thread and while standing proud tries to promote his "superior" product. People criticize said product. Sealed goes on defensive while simultaneously lambasting respected VSTi developers, insulting their intelligence and criticizing others for not knowing how a "real" 303 is supposed to sound like. Tempers rise. Civility exits stage left. Immaturity takes the stage.


I think this remark from you speaks volumes for the way that you have repeatedly conducted yourself in this forum:

"Tell you what why don't we debate this on the SOS forum, there are real musicians there and the IQ level is in all seriousness about 30% or more higher than it is here."

Oh, and who could forget your childish little roleplay as "nala" to try and censor Kriminal's signature image.

-Tronam

Tronam wrote:

* KvR thread emerges with "303" in title. Sealed comes out of nowhere to use this as an opportunity to sell his product. People criticize said product. Sealed goes on a defensive that's neither measured or humble, but rather prideful and arrogant. Tempers rise. Civility exits stage left. Immaturity takes the stage. * KvR thread emerges with "303" in title. Someone mentions Sealed's product. Sealed, who's ego has now been stroked, joins thread and while standing proud tries to promote his "superior" product. People criticize said product. Sealed goes on defensive while simultaneously lambasting respected VSTi developers, insulting their intelligence and criticizing others for not knowing how a "real" 303 is supposed to sound like. Tempers rise. Civility exits stage left. Immaturity takes the stage.

Sealed: You know what....he's right

Tronam wrote:

Oh, and who could forget your childish little roleplay as "nala" to try and censor Kriminal's signature image.

What was that about. I must have missed this one?

Tronam wrote:

People criticize said product.

So I am not the first person that didn't like this product demo?

"Sealed: You know what....he's right "

No he 'aint, he's bleedin' wrong from beginning to end, guv.


"So I am not the first person that didn't like this product demo?"

No, the first one was Dave Muononnnnnng. He was very insulting, that's why the whole thing kicked off.

I was taking the piddle out of Kriminal because of the silly and obvious lies he told that he had done the Tau 2 demo without asking the elementary muon himself. Kriminal is a Muon featured artist.

That challenge was made to Kriminal, he wisely didn't take it up.

"simultaneously lambasting respected VSTi developers"

I only took the piss out of Dave Muon, hardly the same thing is it ?

I'd be more than happy to do it again. Every time reincarnation is mentioned, he says something derogatory , this is where the trouble lies, not me. BOTH times without me saying anything, check the facts.

I am here as an individual, I couldn't care less if someone like yourself takes a dislike to me because they are incapable of interpreting written English.

Alex wrote:

Tronam wrote: Oh, and who could forget your childish little roleplay as "nala" to try and censor Kriminal's signature image. What was that about. I must have missed this one?

You missed this, though the picture is long gone. Sigh. I miss her. I thought she was hot. 'Nala' thought she looked 'contemptuous ugly.' I guess taste works for more than just sound...

I have put an mp3 of the tweak file with distortion

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/distortion.mp3


Because wave files sound much better, I have put these up too

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/tweak.wav
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/distortion.wav
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sealed/sweep.wav


P.S. I am not descending to any murky depths again

sealed wrote:

I was taking the piddle out of Kriminal because of the silly and obvious lies he told that he had done the Tau 2 demo without asking the elementary muon himself. Kriminal is a Muon featured artist.

Firstly, shut ya fuckin mouth, you dont know what you are talking about.

I'm not even on the beta team for Tau 2, i was sent it to see what i thought, and i made a demo without Dave's permission. I apologised for doing it and took it down.

Get ya facts right ya!

you are up the arse cos u sent me your CD with the samples and i said i cant see anyone using them, cos u get more control over a VSTi.

Dont accuse me of something you know nothing about.

sealed wrote:

That challenge was made to Kriminal, he wisely didn't take it up.

What challenge was that then?

Kriminal

I don't believe that anyone would be so dumb as to release a demo of an unreleased synth without the author's permission especially if they were a featured artist of the company.

Of course, dave arrived soon after to say it was a taster, slightly suspicious, non ?

I wasn't pissed off at your review, it was a perfectly reasonable opinion.

Post the picture of the satanic ( ) chick again. That's my challenge to you, which you would be wise to take up.

pough wrote:

You missed this, though the picture is long gone. Sigh. I miss her. I thought she was hot. 'Nala' thought she looked 'contemptuous ugly.' I guess taste works for more than just sound...

Sealed: What the fuck!!!!

nana wrote:

he does it because he is annoying, greasy, twisted tosser from tthe great English underclass

You fucking Scottish prick

Sealed: I like the way you turn up and start promoting your samples. You did just as what was described previously in this thread. Classic!

sealed wrote:

I genuinely think tau pro sounds crap

Now who is calling other peoples products crap. Hypocrite!

Alex

I just gave an honest opinion in both cases, strongly provoked by Dave Muon's original slimy remarks, that's all. Remember folks it was Mr Muon who caused the fights each time . Everything else follows easily.

Tau Pro is the only soft synth I felt ripped off in buying, there was no demo, only Tau which sounds a lot better.

This thread is unfuckinbelievable!

Dave, Tau2 is by far the best thing I've heard from you yet, congratulations! It still sounds weak in the lows & low mids but you've come a LONG way since Electron, I could definitely be fooled by this in a mix (which I can't say about any other modelled 303 out there).

Alex, if you can't hear which one is closer by listening to these examples, you might want to think about honing your ears before flaming people so enthusiastically.

Krim goes clubbing

[quote="Uncle E"]Dave, Tau2 is by far the best thing I've heard from you yet, congratulations! It still sounds weak in the lows & low mids but you've come a LONG way since Electron, I could definitely be fooled by this in a mix (which I can't say about any other modelled 303 out there).

.[/quote]

Eric, I agree, I was quite surprised when I heard the mp3, it's miles better than Tau Pro.

For everyone (even Alex). As I kept saying before, these are two totally different products. It depends how you wish to use a 303 type sound which one you will prefer.

My next Vsti

does it have step seq

ianweb123 wrote:

My next Vsti

sealed wrote:

Kriminal I don't believe that anyone would be so dumb as to release a demo of an unreleased synth without the author's permission especially if they were a featured artist of the company. Of course, dave arrived soon after to say it was a taster, slightly suspicious, non ? I wasn't pissed off at your review, it was a perfectly reasonable opinion.

Beleive what you like, but dont make i'll founded accusations.

Dave is a fan of my work, especially the acid stuff, that is why i was asked my opinion of Tau 2. I was asked if i wanted to be a featured artist months before Tau 2 was heard of, Dave just hadnt updated his site for a while. (and the reason i am a featured artist is because i use Tau and Tau Pro in some of my tracks)

sealed wrote:

Kriminal I don't believe that anyone would be so dumb as to release a demo of an unreleased synth without the author's permission

Unfortunately, i was that dumb, and i have learned my lesson

folks -

weve been here before


lets chill it all out a bit please and avoid all the personal crap flying about

you know it makes sense


slainte rob

btw -

KRIMINAL wrote:

Unfortunately, i was that dumb, and i have learned my lesson

east anglian posse in da house !!!


slainte rob

KRIMINAL wrote:

Unfortunately, i was that dumb, and i have learned my lesson

We love you anyways Krim

Even though you are an orion user

Cheers

And getting to your other small point, Orions' Monobass Generator, is the best 303 emulator i have used, cos its got a built in step sequencer (that is to say the Orion piano roll, cannot play long notes unless you slide them, and......did i really just start it all again

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this whole thread.

Thems the breaks! Im just tryin to get my post count up

I go away for a few hours, and THIS is how things turned out? no discussion of the MP3s at all, just personal insults?

Sorry, I don't have time for this.

Regards
Dave

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

I go away for a few hours, and THIS is how things turned out? no discussion of the MP3s at all, just personal insults? Sorry, I don't have time for this.

We are a rather disappointing bunch, aren't we? I liked the MP3 demos, but I have every intention of buying Tau 2 as soon as you release it, anyways. I know the sample version sounds more real, but A) I wouldn't know the difference and B) I definitely want a more dynamic synth.

Here's the way I see it: I want Tau 2, find the personalities fascinating to watch, it's beautiful weather outside and I'm on my motorcycle today, and last but not least, I'm hungry so I'm going home.

Quote:

No, the first one was Dave Muononnnnnng. He was very insulting, that's why the whole thing kicked off.

Quote:

"simultaneously lambasting respected VSTi developers" I only took the piss out of Dave Muon, hardly the same thing is it ?

Quote:

I just gave an honest opinion in both cases, strongly provoked by Dave Muon's original slimy remarks, that's all. Remember folks it was Mr Muon who caused the fights each time . Everything else follows easily. Tau Pro is the only soft synth I felt ripped off in buying, there was no demo, only Tau which sounds a lot better.

Full marks for speaking your mind.

I can think of a million better ways to spend my valuable time than cross swords with you, Sealed. I'll offer a deal - next time a thread comes up discussing 303 emulations, if you don't chip in to tout your sample CD, I won't say a single word about Tau2 either. For the general sanity of KVR readers I urge you to accept. The public will decide which is the better product anyway.

Regards
Dave

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

I go away for a few hours, and THIS is how things turned out? no discussion of the MP3s at all, just personal insults? Sorry, I don't have time for this. Regards Dave

Well I'd have to assume you'll be releasing a demo version.... normally i dont use mp3s to base how i feel on a synth.. rather i'd like to try it out before making my own personal decision.

cerebral wrote:

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this whole thread.

indeed. someone move this into the off topics-arguments forum. the nastiness is affecting my karmic alignment, and ive just sworn off ever using a 303 sound again. too much acid really does make you insane it would seem...

sealed quoth No,