| Author | Topic: Sampletank 2 details | |||||||||
| AndrewW | Posted: 9th July 2003 23:29 | |||||||||
Check this out
http://www.sampletank.com/Main.html?sampletank2-desc It seems that we get the engine only upgrade for the few lucky some of us, and upgrade for $250. Not bad for 1500 patches. Available when school starts - end of August 
Thanks Squids PS to Squids - by the way IDK sound great, love it !!! | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 9th July 2003 23:52 | |||||||||
I am glad you like it Andrew. It took us a long time to make that version. It was like redoing it from scratch in some ways. I hope you've had time to check out the Studio Drum Capsule too. I was just having a little fun playing it today. There are some interesting different sounding kits on it like brushes and certain tight funky kits etc.
Anyway, yeah ST2 is going to be hot! Honestly, I am making sounds in it right now that I have never heard in anything else before. I even like it when it gets a little overwhelmed with stretch. There are two ways to look at stretch I think: format "preserving" and formant MANGLING!!!!!!!! The preserving is really nice but the mangling is even better because you scratch your head thinking "how is it making THIS cool sound?". Anyway, I have some cool audio demos that I'll post asap. I think IK has some demos up on the site (or they will) but that only scratches the surface. I'll contribute some. | ||||||||||
| Funkybot | Posted: 10th July 2003 00:54 | |||||||||
Andrew, don't bother purchasing from IK until you check out the prices your local chain music store (i.e. Guitar Center) will be selling it for upon release. My guess right now is that GC will be selling the full version of ST2 Large for $199 (i.e. CHEAPER THAN THE "UPGRADE"!) I know Squids has worked something out where he can sell the engine only upgrade (and he'll be the only one doing so) and I'm sure a lot of us here will take him up on this and appreciate his work. On the other hand, I'm extremely disappointed with IK, and will go as far as to say that IK has the absolute worst upgrade policies in the VST world. Again, the absolute worst.
Ok, here's my reasoning for this statement. The T-Racks24 upgrade to T-Racks VST is about $299 (maybe $249), which is about the same price T-Racks 24 sold for new. How many new instruments/effects offer so little and cost so much? Was T-Racks VST a different product? Slightly. More like an improvement of an existing product incorperating new features and compatibilities. The upgrade should not have cost the owner of the previous product the initial purchase price though. If it sounds good then fine (if it's worth it people will buy it), but to charge that much for customers who've supported the company by getting in so early is just sh*tty IMO. Now we're seeing the same thing with ST2. The upgrade costs more than what the retail store price will probably end up being! Of course retail is always cheaper than buying direct (most people here already know this and I'm not arguing this) but for a brand new retail version of ST2L (or T-Racks, whatever) to cost cheaper than the upgrade offered to previous customers is ridiculous, and that's definately not cool. I was considering buying Amplitube, but after the T-Racks24 to VST upgrade I decided against it. I'm affraid that if another upgrade were to come out, I'd be getting screwed in the price. So instead I'm opting to buy a PODXT which with it's new USB reamping features will allow me to use the XT much the same way I'd use Amplitube (i.e. on other instruments than guitar, and similar to a plug-in). Sure the XT costs more, but lets face it, it now does everything Amplitube does, and is hardware. Plus two pretty major updates have been made available for free, and if I were to buy Amplitube now, and Amplitube version 2 would come out 6 months later (and I missed the free upgrade window) then hypothetically, and based on IKs previous policies, Amplitube would actually wind up costing more [a fairly weak argument I know]. Now I'm seriously debating an ST2 purchase, simply because I don't trust IK's upgrade policies, as they seem to directly reflect the company's oppinion of their user base. I think a lot of ST users who look at this upgrade fiasco in this light may come to believe that IK media is seemingly screwing over any previous customers. This is not only a bad decision on IKs part, but really bad P.R. I've pretty much decided that if I do buy ST2L at all it will be via a retail outlet where I can get it cheaper than the upgrade, and that it would be the absolute last IK product I'd ever buy unless I'd see some kind of change in IK's business practices regarding their existing customers. This is posted in the SR/IK forum, and I by no means want this post to reflect poorly upon Sonic Reality. Squids has done so much for his customers (myself included) that I can honestly not say a bad thing about the man or his company in regards to how they treat their customers. IK on the other hand should seriously reconsider their current practices in terms of upgrades. BTW is stretch cool? Yeah I checked out the MP3s, I really dig it. Does ST2 look cool? Sure does, no doubt about it. Is it a big upgrade over version 1? Hell yes. Should IK be charging an upgrade price from ST1 to ST2? Of course, after all, we are not communists and they have costs (I'm not even against them turning a profit in the process). It's just the nature of the upgrade policies pricing I'm questioning. I just want to close by saying that I'm not against IK or any other company charging for upgrades. It's just the way the company decides to go about their upgrade policy that can really bug me, especially in the case of IK and their entire product line thus far. I'm sure at least a few other people who purchased IK products have felt screwed by IK in terms of upgrades, and if making your customers feel this way is an awful way of trying to get them to return to your company. So again, if I even buy ST2, it will be the last product I buy from IK; and if I do buy it, it will only be to support the sounds I already own for it and mostly the SR sounds at that. Hopefully Squids won't delete or edit this post, but I could definately see this starting some flaming in here, and upsetting IK. Either way, I think it's a fair argument, and at the very least is food for thought. Sorry for the megapost, I know we keep these reserved for Squids. So Squids, tell me about Sonic Station, have a sampler of choice  ? | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 00:57 | |||||||||
Yeah, when are those demo mp3's coming??? 
Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| TrekStar | Posted: 10th July 2003 01:11 | |||||||||
Just a short question:
will ST2 need more CPU-power, if yes...how much more? Thanks! | ||||||||||
| Ixox | Posted: 10th July 2003 01:26 | |||||||||
Listen to the First solo vocal mp3 with STRETCH !!!!!!!
And just bellow to the vocals section !!!
Waiting will be hard !! | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 01:30 | |||||||||
Holy crap!!!! That looks awesome!!!! Bummer that the upgrade doesn't import. 
Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| basic channel | Posted: 10th July 2003 01:35 | |||||||||
Hear, hear.... 
Are you listening Jason ?  | ||||||||||
| whyterabbyt | Posted: 10th July 2003 01:41 | |||||||||
will ST2 need more CPU-power, if yes...how much more?
I think its fair to say thats an unanswerable question; I would assume for ST1 patches, it will be the same. For patches using the new features, who knows? | ||||||||||
| Ceej | Posted: 10th July 2003 01:53 | |||||||||
Some of the STRETCH mp3 samples there are pretty impressive, yes.
I was particularly stunned by the "Funky Guitar with STRETCH and FX", which managed to turn a simple Strat sample into.. um, an Indian Flute. 
Until IK fix the URL on their page, here's a link to the real "Funky Guitar with STRETCH and FX" sample: http://www.sampletank.com/ST2SoundExample/Funky-Stretch.mp3 By the by, I'd be curious to know about CPU use, too... given how everyone's saying this is like a whole new product, I wouldn't assume that ST1 patches would necessarily use the same amount of CPU with an ST2 engine. I do wonder whether some of the more complex loop-syncing STRETCH patches will even be playable on my ol' 650MHz Athlon... | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 02:08 | |||||||||
Yeah, I thought that was pretty good.
Apart from Stretch (which we know is cool), I'm impressed with the new effects - finally a bitcrusher!!! And cool amp sims, and a phaser, and a proper compresser, and a bitchin' limiter, and new eq, and, and, and... ...and I'm definately getting this!!! And zone editing on drumkits, and three synth engines, and more effects slots, and saving of modified presets, and there's an UNDO button there, and now we can edit LFO's Envelopes, Filters, etc, and now we can layer instruments, and, and, and ...and did I mention that I'm getting this? Oooh boy am I excited!!! Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 02:11 | |||||||||
Oh yeah, and user-defined midi control setup, and portamento, and user keywords, IT LOOKS COOL.
I seriously think ST2 has just made every other rompler obsolete... Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 02:14 | |||||||||
By the way, where did that link come from? That page isn't mentioned anywhere on the Sampletank website, or on IK's website.
Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| whyterabbyt | Posted: 10th July 2003 02:20 | |||||||||
Well if the upgrade from LE to ST2 XL with 8CDs of samples is going to be just over Ģ200 then me is definitely getting it.... | ||||||||||
| Duff Paddy | Posted: 10th July 2003 02:30 | |||||||||
sorry if this aint the place but seeing this thread reminded me that I got sampletank a while ago but it wouldnt run on Mac Logic 5.5.
I did email IK and they said a fix was coming but ive not heard anything since and forgot about it until seeing this thread. Does anyone know if there's a fix now? TIA | ||||||||||
| AndrewW | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:09 | |||||||||
I think that if I get the free download upgrade to Sampletank 2 engine, there should be a way to get the sounds, the 8 CDs Sampletank2 comes with, for cheaper than $250.
Is that right Squids? I hope so. If not than I'll have to sell my $49 Sampletank DJ, and apply it to the upgrade. Anyway, I can't loose - I hope. | ||||||||||
| AndrewW | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:11 | |||||||||
But there's still Spectrasonics with their Trillogy, Atmosphere etc. Darn good products, but you're right - Sampletank will most likelly blow them out of the water. | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:12 | |||||||||
no, the only fix is upgrade to logic 6...sorry  | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:17 | |||||||||
I just noticed the upgrade price to st2 xl is the same from any version..or am i reading it wrong? If so, thanks Ik for being so good to us Xl 1.1 users... Funkybot's post is 100% correct..the upgrade prices suck | ||||||||||
| whyterabbyt | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:22 | |||||||||
Im assuming the reason is that the upgrade is the engine, plus 8 disks of new content.... If the content doesnt overlap with DJ, L, or XL at all, then the single price makes sense... | ||||||||||
| Duff Paddy | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:23 | |||||||||
thanks ttoz......and by some luck I got my Logic 6 this morning....just checked it and youre right.......it all works  | ||||||||||
| Wookie | Posted: 10th July 2003 03:37 | |||||||||
I don't think $249 is too bad for the upgrade (new engine and 4.5g of sounds!!)... Considering XL is $499 (about Ģ375... but knowing the UK market, their exchange rate will probably be $1=Ģ1) I can't see it being on sale for less than that in the shops.... and the upgrade is cheaper than I was expecting... so I have a sneaky suspicion that I'll be saving up for the new sounds over the next month or two... | ||||||||||
| dr.wackler | Posted: 10th July 2003 04:35 | |||||||||
I just listened to the demo mp3s. Quite nice.
However, I find it a little misleading that the "unstretched" samples played back with conventional sampling are called "conventional resampling"! That title implies a comparison with timestretching and formantshifting abilities of other samplers that handle this technique (though resampling is something different again) - yet it is just ordinary multisample-playback. | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 05:05 | |||||||||
They're not comparing Stretch with multisampling - they're comparing it with resampling. No resynthesis. Re-sampling is what common samplers do to play samples at different pitches - they play the same sample faster or slower (effectively changing the samplerate of the sample -> resampling). Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| vic_france | Posted: 10th July 2003 06:34 | |||||||||
(I just want to add a little "Devil's Advocate" into this debate:-)..
Let's not lose sight of the fact that ST2 XL costs hardly more than did ST1 XL(at list price), and not only do we get this wonderful new engine, but apparently approximately twice the sound content (4 CD in ST1, 8 CD in ST2)! There is no doubt that from the money aspect, the best deal is for the new purchaser (whyterabbyt's comment is the key issue here, I think. But I'd be very (pleasantly) surprised if there were no overlap between the content of ST1 and ST2...otherwise I'm sure we'd have already been reading more about that...8 totally new CDs, that would be big news by itself!). I don't know how many ST1 customers there are out there, but if they constitute the majority of the people most likely to be interested in getting ST2, it must be very difficult for IK to assess where to make money out of this thing. Certainly, the "most left out" in the upgrade deal, are those who are already ST1 XL owners (I'm in that category myself).From IK's point of view (which I am not necessarily endorsing..I'm mean if they were to say 'free upgrades for everyone", can you imagine me replying "no thanks!"??), I can only imagine the reasoning behind their upgrade policy being that if you could afford XL1, then let the best deals go to those who couldn't (in order to best reflect the relative price-drop (yes,yes!) to the new XL2. Unfortunately, that's a bit like the way most governments calculate your income tax!
I can't see myself *not* getting ST2 XL, even though I've only had v1 for a few months, so the only valid question I can ask myself is "have I had my money's worth out of ST1 XL in the meantime? Possibly not, but I certainly have gotten a lot of joy out of it (and even used it once or twice on paid projects). (for those who systematically jump straight to the ends of posts...hello:-) | ||||||||||
| dr.wackler | Posted: 10th July 2003 06:39 | |||||||||
Well, nice and clever abuse of the term resampling! What you describe is called resampling if it is an offline process. As an online/realtime process resampling stands for sampling the output of a device back internally. | ||||||||||
| mikehbeck | Posted: 10th July 2003 07:15 | |||||||||
Yea, I'm another XL owner who's feeling kind of chaffed by this. Why should the DJ owners (who paid $69 for their copy) get ST XL 2 for the same price as ST XL 1 owners (who paid $349 for their copy)?
It would only make sense (at least a little) if the 8 CDs of content are completely original. If that's the case, then I could see them thinking "Well, the DJ, L, and XL owners all had the same engine, the difference in the price was due to the samples. Since we're giving them all brand new samples, and the XL owners can still use their old samples, we should charge the same upgrade price." So I know this question has been dodged in the past..... but are all those sounds 'brand new'? If not, then I will be disappointed. Does that mean I won't get it? Well I didn't say that did I..... but getting burnt one to many times by a company doesn't create loyalty; for example, I'll never buy from Steinberg again. | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 10th July 2003 08:35 | |||||||||
Even if they use some samples from the same recording sessions (likely), the patches (instruments) almost certainly will have all-new programming to take advantage of the new engine. Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| Mighty_Hero | Posted: 10th July 2003 09:26 | |||||||||
The layering demo was/is VERY impressive. | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 10th July 2003 11:12 | |||||||||
I had a mega post for you with all kinds of answers and KvR's wonderful "invalid session" feature wiped it all out.  For me, if I hit the back button on Explorer on the Mac it doesn't keep what you wrote so it's gone. Bye bye. Oh well. I'll recover. It is a shame because I had some good perspective. Anyway, I will simplify it to this:
1. When it comes to comparing between DJ and XL as far as IK is concerned then please remember that the MSRP of DJ is actually $249. but was discontinued. The fact that only a few stores had it on a drastic sale on a blow out doesn't mean that some people beforehand didn't pay $199-249. for this product. 2. To dilineate for every nuance of price difference for the upgrade is too difficult a task. This way it is simple to administer for all of the dealers to be able to offer the boxed upgrade without a lot of confusion. It will be difficult enough just to have them verify that you are at least a registered owner of ANY of them let alone which version specifically AND what discount you got.... come on. 3. On the other hand, if you just look at what YOU get for the money and if it is worth the price then what is the difference if someone else bought a smaller version at a blow out price and got it a little cheaper than you? This happens all the time. Would you have bought DJ instead and waited around for this? Or did you buy what you wanted and could afford in the first place and now you also have this as an option? 4. It's all a matter of perspective. The glass is half full for everyone here I think because no one really loses out. But, yes, some people because of the timing of what they bought or the sale price etc. got some price break advantage. That's retail folks. Again, it happens all of the time. In some ways it is a good thing that there even is an upgrade path with a price break at ALL. Imagine if your only option was to buy the new product for the full price? This is a lot better than that. 5. I believe the new ST2 XL has 4 of the previous discs of sample content redone with new programming for ST2 (some of which I am contributing which is interesting... and what I am able to do with their sample material is so new it is unrecognizable- that is how different it can make it). In addition to that there are actually 4 to 5 new sample discs (yeah, they might even make it 9 but we'll see... I am contributing some sample material too just help make it kick booty). So, if you are in any way disappointed with the amount of samples and patches this will have then I think perspetives need to be examined. Nothing else gives you this for the price. 6. The demo is showing how Stretch as an engine option can do certain things with certain types of sounds that are not possible with traditional resampling engines (ie. the standard transposition techniques of sample rates going up and down across the keyboard... chipmunk style ). I can (and will) talk more about all of that soon.
For the moment, I have to go though. I will also post stuff you can do with Stretch as well. It will be fun. | ||||||||||
| Mr. Slater's Parrot | Posted: 10th July 2003 12:17 | |||||||||
Ok, how about this: next time you post, do a "Select All" followed by a "Copy" before you hit the Submit or Preview buttons. If you get an "invalid session", then you should be able to click on Back, do a "Paste" and try again. It's a couple of extra clicks, but probably a lot better than losing everything and starting all over. Just a thought.
James | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 10th July 2003 14:10 | |||||||||
Yeah, I knew to do this the first time it happened. But, I forget to do it. Trust me, the last mini-mega post I just made I did do it. But, it's a bummer if you forget. The problem is that I'll write a post and then get called to do something before I had time to submit it and then I go back and finish it but too much time has elapsed or something. Anyway, it is what it is. One must adapt. | ||||||||||
| eDrummist | Posted: 10th July 2003 20:12 | |||||||||
I don't think the glass is half full, it's overflowing. $250 for all those sounds is incredible. The new features seem awesome. The only downside to all this is that I can't get it tonight.
Heck, the IK/SampleTank folks make me very proud of my Italian lineage.
- eDrummist | ||||||||||
| basic channel | Posted: 11th July 2003 01:00 | |||||||||
Much as I respect you Squids I think you're wrong. My XL cost about Ģ300 - compared to Ģ1-200 for DJ. That's a BIG price difference. I'd just kind of hoped that IK would appreciate my investment in their product and offer a fairer upgrade price. It wouldn't be that difficult to charge registered ST1 XL users a lower price than L or DJ users, would it ? Obviously it would be more practical for IK to do this direct rather than via retailers (as you say, this would be very difficult). I'll probably upgrade anyway - but with a rather bitter taste in my mouth
swayzak | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 01:05 | |||||||||
Yeah i agree about being an xl owner and miffed... Ik Multimedia and whomever else can try to justify the upgrades till their blue in the face but it just ain't gonna wash with me.. I cannot possibly see any fairness , regardless of what the new sound content is, how retail $249 sampletank l or dj or whatever it's called users and $499 retail XL users (street price should be relative, i.e 50% difference) can both upgrade to the new flagship XLv2 for $249 and just to make this clear now, Sampletank 1 Xl has a different engine... 16 part multi and 4 stereo out.... so it's not just the sound content.... not that $249 is that expensive for what you seem to get, but either Dj and L owners should be charged at least $100 more or preferably, XL owners be charged 100 less....i mean isn't that fucking fair? in what way is that NOT fair? And to top it all off, I haven't even been able to use Xl for over a year because of constant crash issues...I have sent support emails and can you believe i have not heard ONE SINGLE reply back from IK support? even though i know they received my emails because you get an automated response with your original question to say it has been received.... i started these back on 6th June! I had to email directly to Jason through Squid's webpage and persist and threated with posting my experience with IK on this forum to get him to reply that they will at least look into it...well that was 8 days ago and since then ofcourse i haven't heard a single word... If anyone is interested in the history of my dealings with Ik, ,i will be more than happy to post the complete email history here.....and then you can see how much they care about their user's...I have been patient enough...... I am so furious my face is completely red....I have never felt such strong dislike towards ANY other audio company before, but i HATE ikmultimedia. | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 01:09 | |||||||||
And yes Squids, I am kinda disappointed with you too - mostly i think your service and support is fantastic...but don't try to justify bs, please...i stress again, there is NO WAY that it is fair that the upgrade prices are the same.. it's be like, for example, buying logic silver 5 tomorrow and wanting to upgrade to platinum 6 for the same price as what it would cost to upgrade from platinum 5 to platinum 6...why the fuck would people buy platinum which is 3 times more? you could buy an older version and upgrade for cheaper than buying the latest flagship outright..it just doesn't happen..in fact i think IK are the first to pull this one | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 11th July 2003 01:16 | |||||||||
No, both DJ and L have the same engine as XL. It's only LE (the OEM version that comes with the eRoms) that's crippled. So really, the only difference between DJ and XL is the sound content. Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 01:26 | |||||||||
WRONG...go to sampletank.com and see for yourself.. I just did, yet again, like when i bought XL.. Xl is 16 multi and L(NOT LE) is 4 Maybe i am wrong about the outputs though...will check into it further and post back..but it seems DJ has been dropped and i think that was more crippled than L LE is stereo out and 1 part timbral, so obviously the most crippled of the lot i'll forgive you for trying to make me look stupid becasue you are from my hometown 
btw that last sentence was kinda a joke | ||||||||||
| topaz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:08 | |||||||||
oh dear.
| ||||||||||
| Ceej | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:11 | |||||||||
In this case, it's sampletank.com (and you) that are incorrect. Sampletank XL, L, and DJ all had precisely the same engine. For a while, only Sampletank XL included the Akai convertor, but at some point they started including it with all three. The only difference was the bundled sounds.
Sampletank LE is stereo out and 4-part multi-timbral. I know, I have it. | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:11 | |||||||||
huh?????? r u saying i'm wrong too   | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:14 | |||||||||
well thankyou...if you are right (and i sincerely doubt it) then it seems I have grounds for a full refund
i bought XL specifically to have the ultimat engine to play sonic synth with.. ironically of course i never have used it in a project becasue of the problems i had.. and yes, i have LE also, and never bothered with it so if i'm wrong about the 1 midi channel thing, then so be it..big deal... | ||||||||||
| relayer2001 | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:16 | |||||||||
|
Well, based on the info on the Sampletank page, I won't be able to use ST2 anyway. Looks like the minimum OS requirement for PCs is Win XP which I have no intention of switching to from Win 98SE. (Lots of hardware issues with XP). I'll just have to go and get ST1 L from esoundz while it's still available. Unless someone is thinking of selling theirs
relayer2001 | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:18 | |||||||||
oh, i would LOVE to sell you my sampletank xl 1.1 for dirt cheap to get rid of it once and for all, but Ik wont let me, even though i don't even have it installed... oh i just checked out the windows xp thing..true! well i never have intentions of changing from 2k so sampletank 2 was never an option to begin with i now see....tc lost a powercore firewire customer too because of this..i can understand dumping 98/me but win 2k and XP share alot in common and for crying out loud Win2k is still, ,and will be for the forseeable future, a fully supported microsoft OS! | ||||||||||
| topaz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:19 | |||||||||
this really wants to be an IK mistake. really really.
| ||||||||||
| Ceej | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:22 | |||||||||
I'm right. I'm sure someone will back me up sooner or later, but for now, check out iDavid's review of Sampletank here on kvr-vst - he mentions he upgrade to L and got 16-part multi-timbral, four stereo outs, and the Akai convertor. Sucky webpage on their part, but I doubt you'll convince anyone that it entitles you to anything in particular. | ||||||||||
| Patrik | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:25 | |||||||||
Actually, you canīt decide the upgrade prize and in some way you can.
If IK selling a lot of Sampletank 2 the upgrade prize is fair. If they donīt do money on ST2 the prize is to high. If ST2 is a fantastic product they will sell a lot even if for example the prize is high or the support is bad. But if ST2 is not a fantastic product they must lower their prizes and the support must be perfect. IK decides what ST2 should cost but it is we consumers that buy their products. This is capitalism. This is what makes the world going around. If you donīt think they are loyal to their custmomers, the prize is to high or their support is bad. Donīt buy. A Ferrari is very expensive. Most people canīt pay for a Ferrari. But there are some rich that can. And Ferrari makes money of these persons. Excuse my poor english. If it was better you should see a megapost like Squidz. So I guess you are happy that I have a poor english
Patrik | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:25 | |||||||||
yeah, a sucky webpage that's been updated all the time and that "small" flaw in their product descriptions hasn't been corrected in almost two years then | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:31 | |||||||||
Topaz, do you happen to know whether the engines ARE the same or not? you've been around a while so i kinda trust what you would say..i just want to know once and for all what the deal is..then again, i am sure squidz or jason will jump in and settle the score....
Patrik said:
too late...already have..before i knew..and no i will never buy ikmultimedia again..but i'm not going to sit back and have a product i cant use reliably with my host and os, when it says they are fully supported... this isn't over yet | ||||||||||
| topaz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:38 | |||||||||
yeh L was always the same as XL.
it must be a mistake. [quote="ttoz"]Topaz, do you happen to know whether the engines ARE the same or not? you've been around a while so i kinda trust what you would say..i just want to know once and for all what the deal is..then again, i am sure squidz or jason will jump in and settle the score.... | ||||||||||
| Ceej | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:40 | |||||||||
For my own part, I can't really decide how I feel about the upgrade scheme. I think probably it's "fair" that Sampletank 1 L and XL owners get the same upgrade price, because what with the mass of new features and hugely extended soundbank, both L and XL owners are getting pretty much the same amount of "new stuff", give or take. (How much "give" and how much "take" depends on how many sounds in the Sampletank 2 XL soundset are straight copies of things in Sampletank 1 XL...) And I think, generally speaking, that even at full MSRP it's likely that Sampletank 2 XL is going to be a pretty solid deal, so any discount over that can't really be argued against too strenuously.
But I think it probably should have been obvious to IK that Sampletank 1 XL owners might well feel slighted in the deal, especially since (so far, at least) there's no mention made about how much "all-new" soundware is in 2XL. IMHO, offering 1XL owners even a slightly better upgrade price than 1L or 1DJ owners would have bought them considerably more customer happiness and loyalty, and you'd think that's gotta be worth more to them then the dollars they'd lose. Clearly it's fair that Sampletank 1 LE owners have to pay more; in fact, I'd say it was awfully sweet of them to even offer us an upgrade price, except for the fact that the upgrade price is pretty much the likely street price, so it's not gonna end up saving me anything. | ||||||||||
| Ceej | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:44 | |||||||||
topaz wrote:
I don't wanna say I told ya so, but... ah, hell, yes I do. Told ya so! | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:44 | |||||||||
Thankyou, that says it better than I ever did, and was the point i was originally trying to project...but when i get mad i often can say things the wrong way... well it seems on the other issue about the engine I am wrong, but it's not really my fault in any way shape or form now is it, i mean i was going by the info that the MANUFACTURER of the plugin has provided.. I have no problem admiting my fuck ups and apologizing but in this case i simply wont, it's ik's fuckup, not mine
and i must admit i am pissed off that certain posters are not hesitating to point out how wrong i am and try and make me look stupid, instead of directing it to IK..so, to whomever thinks that I am to blame and not IK, well then, a big FUCK YOU | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:44 | |||||||||
Yeah, see that's funny... because I had LE, and it had 4 channels and one stereo out.
Now I've got L, and that's got 16 channels and four stereo outs. Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| ericj23 | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:54 | |||||||||
"Topaz, do you happen to know whether the engines ARE the same or not? you've been around a while so i kinda trust what you would say..i just want to know once and for all what the deal is.."
Youre a made man Can you close topics too | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 11th July 2003 02:57 | |||||||||
Hehe. If you're pissed off, look at it this way.
Sampletank is the software equivilent of a rompler or sound module. So when Roland came out with the XV series, do you think there was any chance of JV users getting an upgrade special? And JV -> XV is hardly the revolution that ST1 -> ST2 is. Or when Access released the Virus C, do you think Virus B users would be right to complain that they weren't offered an upgrade deal? And again, the difference between VirusB -> VirusC (hell, even VirusA->VirusC) is hardly that of ST1 -> ST2. So you think that saving 50% - 80% of the cost because you don't have to buy the box isn't enough, and that you have to save even more because you bought the previous generation? Who cares that you've already got ST1? IK could have come about and said ST2 is a completely different product (it almost is), and thus there will be no upgrades. Hell, they could have even given it a different name, like StretchTank or something equally stupid. Take a look at what ST2 is capable of, and then take a look at the price. Is it worth it? Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| Deuce | Posted: 11th July 2003 03:16 | |||||||||
I thought LE users would have a $200 upgrade option to the full downloadable ST2 engine (with no sounds)
No mention of that there....it seems the only way for us to get the full engine is to upgrade to the ST2 XL with the 8 CDs. I don't want 8 CDs of new sounds. I am happy with my Sonic Synth, Omni Synth, Symphony Strings, Piano Collection. I'll have even more sounds when Sonic Station has ST output. So why would I want to buy another 8 CDs of sounds?? The DJ, L and XL users have got a free engine only upgrade so why not give us LE users an upgrade path. I am not saying for free (as I think that would upset some people) but some kinda deal would be nice
Maybe there will be this option for us later....maybe or esoundz or something - Squids, can you shed any light on this one as this will mainly affect your LE customers? Much appreciated
That reminds me Squids - did you receive my email(s) regarding Sonic Station? I was kinda expecting a response but I though you might be upset with me coz of the 'eROM' business  | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 03:29 | |||||||||
but you forget that the free engine upgrade is only if you purchased the product(v1) after a certain time....i would be happy with that IF v2 fixed my crash problems with logic 5 pc and IF it works with Win2k...i have no desire for new sounds either..... | ||||||||||
| topaz | Posted: 11th July 2003 03:33 | |||||||||
LOL no..
hi eric -)))
| ||||||||||
| Deuce | Posted: 11th July 2003 03:39 | |||||||||
I was talking about the $200 engine upgrade deal that was mentioned a while back | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 11th July 2003 03:43 | |||||||||
and i was referring to the fact that you stated that DJ,L and XL have a free engine only upgrade.. about the le $200 upgrade, i have no idea, sorry | ||||||||||
| basic channel | Posted: 11th July 2003 05:14 | |||||||||
How about ST2 XL @ $179 for registered ST1 XL users. That's fair isn't it ?
 | ||||||||||
| relayer2001 | Posted: 11th July 2003 05:58 | |||||||||
Errr...guys and gals, I hope you realise that the free ST2 upgrade does not include the import function...at least that's what I assume from what's on the page -
If this is correct, then I assume that you'll have to pay to get the FULL upgrade. Sorry if I'm causing a downer. Just want people to be sure of what they're getting for free. relayer2001 | ||||||||||
| eDrummist | Posted: 11th July 2003 06:45 | |||||||||
I don't think the deal that IK/SampleTank is doing for the $249 for SampleTank XL with 4 CD's of new sounds and 4 CD's of reprogrammed sounds from the first version is a bad deal in any sense. However, I do think they should allow an additional option for SampleTank 1 users to upgrade to the sound engine only for significantly less than $249. Something in the order of $75 - 100 would appear reasonable.
And, from a marketing perspective, IK would do well to through in some of the new sounds and offer users who upgrade only to the engine to further upgrade to XL (say for $149) if they decide that want to do so. I think these guys make a great product (I, for one, love SampleTank) and I think the deal coming is incredible, I just don't think that they are very marketing savvy. Personally, I'm considering sending them an email with some advice (I'm a somewhat recognized expert on marketing and former consultant -- I'm currently a Marketing Director at a Fortune 250, but I have articles and a newsletter on marketing recommended by Harvard B-School, lots of other places). Even if there's a 10% chance they'll listen, it's still worth it. I can do a survey of their current customers -- through KVR and provide IK with the results along with recommendations (I mean a more extensive survey, not a poll like this message board has). Anyone interested? I'll put something together by next week if enough people are up for it. My only motivation for doing this is to try to help everyone out (fellow customers and IK) -- I'm personally delighted with the upgrade. But if enough people tell me to do this, I will. If no one responds (or no one responds positively), I will not. Providing a company with this kind of data point and a compelling business case can go very far with a company that cares about customers and revenue (which are inherently linked). - eDrummist | ||||||||||
| Jeez | Posted: 11th July 2003 08:04 | |||||||||
Man, you rule. I'm voting for you on principal alone! Forever, Kim. | ||||||||||
| GSauve | Posted: 11th July 2003 12:40 | |||||||||
Hey edrummist:
You're a real mensch. Thanks Gordon | ||||||||||
| Mighty_Hero | Posted: 11th July 2003 13:14 | |||||||||
I will give my two cents e.......
After I bought "X" amount of all their and sonic reality stuff..........I want just the engine.............for free...........nothing else. If you put together that list, I will add comments to it as well edrummist. | ||||||||||
| Squids | Posted: 11th July 2003 13:35 | |||||||||
Oh man. What a mess of misinformation we have here. Also, some trashtalking on the Squids? What's up?
Sorry, actually, I have been swamped and hadn't had time to come in here and really explain stuff. I will try: First of all, to clear things up: There is the full engine that has 16 channels and 4 stereo outs which can be found in DJ, L and XL (so Ttoz was wrong there). The upgrade to the full ST2 with sounds is $249. Then there is the LE version which has only 4 channels per instance and 1 stereo out. The upgrade to the full ST2 with sounds from this is $349. It is PERFECTLY fair to charge $249. to XL users for what they get which is 4-5 new discs plus loads of reworked patches using the previous XL's samples (if you knew the kind of patches that can be made with the new engine you'd be even more excited to see what the old XL sounds are like in the hands of a Squid for example). But, yes, it is EXTRA fair to the DJ and L users to let them also get the full upgrade for $249. At this point, I imagine there are no complaints from the DJ and L users! So, what about the XL users? I agree that you deserve some extra consideration. Actually so does IK. Apparently, this page isn't even finished and whoever posted the link to it found it themselves (there is no link to the page on the web site yet). So, that causes extra confusion.
They came up with the best thing they could do to solve a more complex problem which is that the dealers (stores) want to carry the upgrade and they can't have so many different items to manage "who gets what for which upgrade condition." So, it had to be as simple as this (just two "skus" to manage). However, what you don't know because the page has not been linked to and announced yet actually (contrary to popular belief... that is what happens when you dig up pages yourself) is that XL users will have some sort of coupon in the box just for them. I don't know what that coupon is but some kind of rebate or credit etc. To repeat: XL users get a coupon in the box! In addition to that, we'll do something special for XL users on esoundz too (so, anyone doubting our customer service...well, I don't know why you would but everyone has an opinion). Ttoz, I am surprised you are so passionate about this when I thought you already decided to use another format anyway. Some of your comments and actions don't seem to make a lot of sense to me considering all I know about your situation. I think you know what I mean. So, perhaps you are just blowing off some extra steam. Maybe I can do something to help you (thought I already did) but it isn't going to help if you just let it rip like that on here. I mean, if you don't like it then don't use it. It can happen with a lot of soundware products. What are you going to do? Change the industry? Anyway, on a sombre note, it's not that inspiring to be working my tentacles off on material to pitch in for ST2's content and KNOWING that it compeltely kicks ass for the money for EVERYONE (first time buyer to loyal ST 1 user) when I see people actually complaining!!!!!????? Man! That sucks. Chances are most of you will still buy it (I would...that is like paying $50. per disc and getting a FREE engine with 30 DSP effects and the Stretch stuff). But I'd rexamine this notion of "I'll buy it but I will have a bad taste in my mouth". Do you know how insulting that is even to me who is working so hard to make great sounds for you in this package? You have a bad taste in your mouth with all of this being offered to you for this price???? Thanks. Maybe there shouldn't be an upgrade at all. It's a lot of extra work to do just to have a bad taste in your mouth. | ||||||||||
| basic channel | Posted: 11th July 2003 14:40 | |||||||||
Squids As I said in my original post - I love and respect you. My comment was aimed at IK, NOT you or Sonic Reality. And if I'd known that there was going to be some recognition for the higher initial outlay by ST1 XL customers (ie the "coupon") I never would have said it. peace swayzak  | ||||||||||
| Mighty_Hero | Posted: 11th July 2003 14:43 | |||||||||
the peace pipe...... | ||||||||||
| topaz | Posted: 11th July 2003 14:55 | |||||||||
Hi Dave, the problem came from the ST specs
ST L multitimbral with 4 x module should be 16x module but this mistake has always been there it seems.
| ||||||||||
| eDrummist | Posted: 11th July 2003 14:56 | |||||||||
If everyone is happy, I will conclude that there is no reason to spend the time providing IK with customer research and recommendations.
IK's lesson should be, don't publish Web pages that are not ready to go public. Let's go and enjoy the product and whine about having to wait!!!
Thanks. eDrummist | ||||||||||
| eDrummist | Posted: 12th July 2003 10:04 | |||||||||
Beardedone,
You had called me a real "mensch." I remembered that was good, because a couple of people have called me that before (also, my step-grandfather was Jewish, so, I probably heard this word growing up, like lots of cool words and yiddish phrases I wish I could remember). However, I only looked this up today. Wow, thanks a lot. This is how I feel and why I try to help. I also think, for the most part, this is the spirit at this and other great message boards. Lots of people have helped me out and I am really grateful and try to keep it going. If anyone is looking to learn more about this, here's what I found (from Jewish.com/askarabbi): "A 'mensch' is a caring person who treats others with respect, who performs acts of gemilut chasadim - loving acts - and who tries to make the world a better place." Thanks to all of the mensches at KVR! Let's keep the common spirit of our love for music and helpfulness towards each other alive. - eDrummist | ||||||||||
| GSauve | Posted: 12th July 2003 10:15 | |||||||||
Hey you're welcome edrummist. I really appreciate the perspective you brought to this discussion.
Good schabass | ||||||||||
| ttoz | Posted: 12th July 2003 20:13 | |||||||||
Squids wrote:
As I sai i was disappointed with your beliefs that the upgrade sceme was fair...I have no problem with you personally at ALL, we are all entitled to an opinion, my problems in this thread are all IK Multimedia
I'ce said it repeatedly and I will say it yet again..I was not wrong..I have been misinformed by ik multimedia themselves for almost 2 years..the mistake is THEIR fault
Well, of course that's changed everything, that Xl users get some extra consideration...so the upgrade prices seem alot fairer now
Again Squids I alert you to the fact that my main issue is with IK, ,NOT you...You have tried to help with Sonic Synth and I appreciate that.... My problem with Ik Multimedia is that I am still left with a $399 Sampletank XL which when i bought it was $800, yes $800 in my currency, and I cannot use it without constant crash problems... I am annoyed that my emails to IK are going ignored, and I am getting more furious by the day that they won't even let me sell it (at least it's some sort of solution...) So what am I supposed to do, just let this software collect dust and accept the fact that i am spending my time writing my heart out to IK with my problems and I am getting ignored and not being offered a solution? I mean, this is the WORST customer service of ANY company EVER...Put it this way, NI in my eyes are about 10 x better than IK, and that's saying something...actually, i'm not going to rat about NI CS again after my experiences with IK, which shows how bad it can really be..I mean June 6th? and still no response from tech support? Just one acknowledgement from jason after I threatened with legal action? I mean, common |
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