|Author||Topic: Devine Machine, why nobody discusses it ? Looks da bomb !|
Posted: 18th July 2003 21:17
Just saw devine machine in CM and on their website, looks da bomb but ... why is it hardly ever discussed. I know there was a small thread a while back. This is too bad.
Maybe if they make sub releases of 1.1 1.11 1.11b they will get into the KVR news page, just like every body does
It appears it knocks the socks of all the loopers out there, including phatmatic pro and its ilk.
Too bad it has a kind of cheap, Magix DJ like interface for its skin.
Any users out there ?
Posted: 18th July 2003 22:13
Not only does it look da bomb, it is da bomb!
I'm SO totally in love with it, I can barely stand it (and I'm sure Steve feels that sentiment doubly much).
As for discussion, you should try HERE first.
Don't know how much more I can say... It rocks in so many ways that it has totally changed my approach (and outlook) toward making music.
Cheers man, and if you can clear off some room on your Visa, it'll be well worth it (I know it took me a little while to do).
Posted: 18th July 2003 23:21
DM is one of those plugz that I really wish I could get a grasp on. It does from the specs everything that I want.. but damn and interface just baffles me.. there is way too much going on.. meanwhile something like their LSRFree is a beaut to use cause it's so simple. Oh well... I give up.
Posted: 19th July 2003 01:32
Yeah, it's very tempting except I have an easier time doing difficult things with it than simple things. Things like making your loops go all wonky are easy. Things like going back to the original loop are hard. Or maybe they're actually easy but I'll be damned if I can figure it out.
I get the feeling that I could make this thing do some amazing stuff. Just never on purpose.
Posted: 19th July 2003 01:51
Just downloaded the demo....Jesus ! Sounds nice, but it is a bit intimidating! Gonna have to put a few hours aside, methinks
Posted: 19th July 2003 01:57
Is it a loop slicer?
Posted: 19th July 2003 02:28
NEA, it is that and so much more...
It slices, it dices, it crushes...
Wait, can it make bread or remove these nasty coffee stains from my teeth?
As for setting aside some time...
This is definitely a RTFM instrument.
It helps wrap your mind around it, and not get so frustrated if you think abut it like a whole new host.
With the amount of things capable with most hosts, you wouldn't expect to master it in a day... the same holds true with Devine Machine.
Time spent studying it will be time well spent down the road.
Cheers, and enjoy!
Posted: 19th July 2003 02:39
It's a loop slicer then
Posted: 19th July 2003 02:52
It's also an excellent live performance/remix instrument with its ability to instantly map newly tweaked sequences to user-selected keyboard keys(for instant swapping/looping/oneshot/etc. from just pressing the keys).
This is actually the DM aspect I've been using most lately... and am amazed at how well it works.
Posted: 20th July 2003 13:00
ih ih ih
Posted: 20th July 2003 13:28
Well, it's impossible to use it... on a Mac!
Posted: 20th July 2003 14:04
I believe your was noticed in the other DM thread...
Just so you know, Link mentioned in the old DM forum (July 4, 2003) that he is working on a port to Mac.
Posted: 20th July 2003 14:21
The interface gives you the impression that this is some dumb dj toy that you'll master & get bored with in an hour's time, which is a shame because it's absolutely NOT the case. I'm surprised that more IDM guys haven't gotten into it for live use.
Posted: 20th July 2003 14:56
I wouldn't be surprised if this happens sooner than we think.
At the moment (and prior to the CM article), I would guess a good portion of sales came from word-of-mouth... and based on the fact that they now have a support forum here on K-v-R, I suspect there are going to be many more mouths spreading the word.
That, and coupling it with some sexy yet simple interface (a'la Live, Tracktion, or the Smart Electronix stuff), and I guarantee you'll start seeing it on many a laptop screen out in "the wild".
Posted: 20th July 2003 15:09
The UI is the sore point (although some may enjoy it). With a little thought towards it's ergonomics.. it could become a lot more intuitive while retaining it's power. I still can't get my head around the interface.. but I'd probably buy it in a second if more time was spent developing the GUI.
DM are you guys listening! SIMPLIFY! and dump the stupid animated flip screen.. it's not a game.. it's a tool to create music.
Posted: 20th July 2003 15:43
DM guys are listening
I promise DM v2 will look like a tank
To be honnest , I started the GUI soon after x-incarn (old mangling loop tool , ancestor of DM).
At this time I really didn't figured the power DM was to have. After some years of testing/improving (in studio real conditions), the original GUI reached its limits.
In fact , some people like it , some don't, and I personnally must hear and agree with complains about this GUI.
However , as Britnell said , it is definately a RTFM app. It takes days to get the way to improve ones productivity by 10000%.
But many already did , and even when DM 2 with its pro/simple looking will be released , users will still need a manual.
don't we say "play" music ? ONLY KIDDING !! don't hit me with that Reaktor manual
|Mr. Slater's Parrot|
Posted: 20th July 2003 16:25
I'm happy to hear that DM is still being developed quite actively.
And, Link's support is top-notch, that's for sure!
Posted: 20th July 2003 17:17
Link, I wish functions were organized together more. It seems like the Live Looping aspects of it are really taking off now but, to those of us to don't really use them, they just make it harder to get around.
Posted: 20th July 2003 17:32
Posted: 20th July 2003 17:54
Link, I love your sense of humor!
I still don't have the dough-re-mi to buy DM, but hopefully when I do you'll still be as funny and helpful as you are now.
I'm glad to see the support forum on KvR. Maybe now DM will get the attention it deserves.
Oh, and a Mac version? Putte should be very happy!
Posted: 20th July 2003 18:11
Please release DM 2 with a more straight forward interface soon. Try as I might I just can't understand how it works. I agree that RTFM is relevant to something as complicated as this but then I can usually try a demo of a plugin and get to grips with it pretty quickly e.g. DR-008. That's why I bought DR-008.
I get the pattern/song bit but I just don't know where they go or how to edit them or even use them. It's like trying to operate an alien space craft and boy have I had problems working those things. I'm sure it's a great piece of software - I'm just too thick to use it in its current incarnation.
Posted: 20th July 2003 23:46
Hey Link! Thanks for listening to your potential user base! Seriously, I really do appreciate it. I'm not one to skip manuals... I definately read them. I think I'm just extremely sensative to user interfaces.. consider me spoiled by the likes of Ableton Live and Tracktion.. and if people are more so the hardware type, I usually have no problems adapting if it's well thought out and logical.. but crammed odd shapped blinking buttons makes me crazy especially when I'm extremely excited about a plug which would work well with the style of music I make (broken idm n' bass type stuff). Anyway, you did a great job with LSRFree! and from the sounds of it, DM v2 will be something worthwhile! I can't wait to check it out! Best of luck... if you come thru with a delightful UI, you'll force me to break with some cash!
Posted: 21st July 2003 01:45
very inspirational software.
but please, please, change the gui, it's taking away all it offers.
actually i would say, drop the g from the gui
one more thing: it seems a bit too heavy on the cpu. again, can the heavy graphics and animation be part of the reason for this?
Posted: 21st July 2003 03:40
"I'm sure it's a great piece of software - I'm just too thick to use it in its current incarnation"
I'm so glad to hear it aint just me!!
Posted: 21st July 2003 03:54
hmm lets see
it cant load looops at 96 khz
if you load loops at 44.1khz in a project at 96 khz it plays them too fast (ie no resampling)
the gui is awful
most of the included patterns are unusable for most loops ie when you move the drum hits to their new position all the tails of the slices end up in strange places - so most of the patterns end up being very un-musica
sorry but im annoyed i wasted about 2 days of my life trying to find the glory in this
I already have a loop slicer and it works fine
Posted: 21st July 2003 05:25
I suppose you're not usually asked to beta test software, right?
Posted: 21st July 2003 05:56
You make me think of a drummer who tries a guitar for 2 days , like :
- The frets and string spaces are too small for a human hand, not only that but this space even shrink when higher notes
- when I try to play a note , it appears that some other string can produce unwanted noisy sounds.
- the global look of the guitar is awful
sorry but im annoyed i wasted about 2 days of my life trying to find the glory in this
just to say , most users spent one or more weeks to do a tour of the devine...
And also , for the second time, if you want new features like 96kHz working better , or explanations on drum things , ask your Q on the forum, so everyone can read the answers. I'll be happy to improve DM , and help all users. I mean sincerly including you !
Also read the answers I made to u on this forum yesterday (same complain about 96khz).
At last if you are happy with a loop slicer , why complain about a software that is not a loop slicer ? Have you noticed that MIDI notes don't even play the slices in DM ?
Posted: 21st July 2003 06:03
Posted: 21st July 2003 06:14
handbags at twenty paces?
Posted: 21st July 2003 07:53
The Devine Machine is obviously genius, in spite of my inability to figure it out. Part of my problem, though, is reading the manual and using the demo of the EZ version. So not all the RTFM elements apply.
It might help people to think of this as a beat mangler rather than a beat slicer. There are some absurdly great sounds that come out of this beast. It's kind of like an instrument version of Supatrigger, with much more control. I wish I had the cash to buy the full version, but then I think I'll be getting a proper beat slicer first.
And yes, the support is supertopawesome.
Posted: 21st July 2003 08:42
I have no interest in some bitter twisted war (as fun as it can be) and i appreciate your attitude in your reply to my comments on the forum BUT
the drummer snipe thats just cheap
Unlike your software
Posted: 21st July 2003 08:47
I get the concept - its ACID + phat matik + live in a VST wrapper. I certainly want that badly, but the interface left me floundering. Can't wait for version 2.0 - but don't take too long because Intakt from Native Instruments may offer stiff competition !?
Posted: 21st July 2003 08:58
... i saw this thread for the first time, ´cause i knew it´s a pc-only thingie. But now i indeed go " ", hewitt.
Must be a real powerful thing this thing here ...
Posted: 21st July 2003 09:01
So I tried the demo and became frustrated because basically I am sooo lazy to try and read manuals, but got some things going and seems really powerfull, but I guess you have to sit with the manual for a few hours to get to grips with it all.
The GUI is ok, I mean I wouldnt expect that to change. Only the graphics make it look like some Magix DJ mixer for wannabees, which is a shame, because this is so far from the truth.
I will have another go soon while reading the manual.
I think when people use music software now they want to be up and running and see results in 30 seconds maximum or they become frustrated. However given the power of this vsti it is rather unfair, since it seems a complex environment rather like a sequencer.
Posted: 21st July 2003 09:06
... i now watched the tutorial-videos on their site, and indeed:
It looks like magix DJ mixer ...
But the things in the tutorial were supercool ... !
Posted: 21st July 2003 14:03
I feel there is quite a different paradigm in loop deployment with Live and DM. Live is a fantastic program; its great for beatmapping long audio files and deployment of larger chunks of audio. I think of Live more as a DJ tool, because like Acid anything really creative or complex takes too much effort to set up.
but I own and use both.. actually I have DM and working inside Live with Console VST. Its great fun to throw LSR on a send and DM on a track in Ableton Live...
I Love Phatmatik, FruitySlicer, etc. But I prefer DM as a slice tool because of the sheer power, for the following reasons:
1) DM loop database remembers slice type and positions for all loops in a unique exportable file, no extra file .ACD .ZGR type stuff to mess with and nothing is written on your audio file. This slice info is automatically remembered, even if you rename or move the WAV.
2) Slice type allows for instant remapping of different drumloops to play the same pattern. Drum presets allow for instant musical repatterning of loops.
3) loop variations can be jammed/crossfaded/manipulated on MIDI notes in realtime with individual outputs... a syncronized manner not possible in other loop programs.
4) DM + LSR VST allows for spontaneous manipulation of any track of your song.
DM amounts to doing stuff you'd never do with ACID or slicers.. because it would be inane amounts of work. Theres overlap in net result, but one takes hours with copy/paste in a timeline/piano roll, and the other one is realtime
As for the gui, it is a bit alien spacecraft right now Once understood (and key commands learned) it is very fluid to operate. Regardless it will be refined as some parts start to outgrow the initial design
As for NI Intakt, I think I'll probably want to buy it also as Im a loop freak, but it seems to be more Kontakt/BeatBurner/Phatmatik ish from what I've heard.
Posted: 21st July 2003 14:10
Would it be possible to post snippets of your Rob Zombie remixes that utilize Devine-Machine?
Or just point out where they can be found/purchased.
It would be nice to hear some real-world usage examples from someone comfortable with the app.
Posted: 21st July 2003 14:33
actually I used X-Incarn, which was Dm's predecessor. However I could have done it all much easier in DM
its track 9 - Meet the Creeper (Pink Pussy Mix) on a remix album called "Rob Zombie - American Made Music to Strip By" on Interscope/Geffen. I used XI on everything that sounds remotely cut up... the breakdown is 100% XI
Posted: 21st July 2003 15:02
I don't have that one (have most of the White Zombie singles though)...
Here's a clip on Rob Zombie's site, for anyone interested: [Pink Pussy Remix]
AS for professional "real-world" use, do you have a database of artists using DM? If so, perhaps some of them would be interested in pointing out its use.
Posted: 21st July 2003 15:17
Britnell, thanks for the link.
bitcrusher - that sounds AMAZING!
Posted: 21st July 2003 15:22
has anyone mentioned to eric amongst the sniping that if the loop plays too fast you simply hit the little button in the bottom right hand corner (bars 1/2)
maybe it's because I've used x-incarn or maybe I'm an alien or something but after about 2 days I was able to control the 'wonkeyness' .
Posted: 21st July 2003 15:27
I bought DM when it first came out and at first was a bit overwhelming . . but when I got use to it I couldn't believe what this thing could do.
I've already used it in many of my project songs and have won three competitions just by messin around with it. Especially after you come up with about 30 different variations of a beat and then spread it across the keyboard and sync up some wild rhythms.
as far as the GUI . . .I think it kinda grew on me now . . . . at least now that I sort of know what I'm doing
Everytime I use it I find something new.
And Link always seems to responds to ALL requests and suggestions and usually has an update to fix any problems.
I always use the VST version and actually have never had a problem yet on FL Studio.
Posted: 21st July 2003 15:44
Got any banks you wanna share (specifically the competition-winning kind).
Posted: 21st July 2003 16:05
Way to go, Larry! I'm getting off this thread... I'm getting too jealous of you PC guys!
Posted: 23rd July 2003 08:24
Mac version is on its way
Posted: 23rd July 2003 11:09
Posted: 23rd July 2003 11:14
audio unit too???
it would then be a wise purchase for me to make now for pc, but i only buy things these days that i will be bale to crossgrade to when i finally move to osx/logic6 next year...
Posted: 24th July 2003 00:39
For now , we choosed reWire, which seem the most adapted to DM. Most people on Mac told us it would be the most nice format
But all suggestions are welcome !