Hi Folks

I`m just curious about what you guys think about VSTi`s that have their own reeverbs delays etc built in?
I personally find them a massive pain in the arse and 98% of the time I switch them off as I much prefer to use dedicated FX channels, plus they just take up more screen space in most GUI`s. I really wish developers would just ditch this ideal.
In my opinion, the only reason they have them there is to "sex up" some of the bundled presets.

What do u think guys?

I agree that developers take advantage of the effects to make some patches sexier but there are a lot of synths that use effects like they use another LFO or modulation setting and if you think of it most effects share the same principles. So in theory there should, and are to my tastes synths that sound incredible because the effects are so integrated.

otoh, you may have some very specific effects you like and don't want to bother with on Chrystal, Absynth, etc. Here's one very odd example, there are effects in Xphraze but more than 50% of the time I forget to turn them on. The sound gets the job done whilst I prefer to use effects on synths like Absynth 1/2, in fact this is the poster child for a synth that was designed with it's effects routines a bit updated.

Half the charm of many synths comes from having the tools there to make the synth sound good. Some people find this unnecessary although I'm not one of them. I've yet to hear a piece of garbage saved by effects which seems to be a favorite motive for many a (not necessarily your) post slagging synth effects.

In the end it's as simple as turning the effects off.

S82 wrote:

Hi Folks I`m just curious about what you guys think about VSTi`s that have their own reeverbs delays etc built in? the only reason they have them there is to "sex up" some of the bundled presets.

Where exactly did you get your information? let me know or I'm telling tony
Seriously though I find built in fx ok when simply playing synths or scanning for a certain sound, but I do tend to have to turn them off when I try to site them or keep some continuity in a mix. This isn't a vsti specific problem, hardware synths are just as good/bad viewpoint depending.

I dunno. I think some synths out there have really cool FX that are very useful. For example Z3ta+ has some really good effects, and the delay effect in Pro-53 can do some cool things and is simple. I'm not against built in effects, except for reverb. I've never liked how built in synth reverbs sound for some reason.

I also like the idea of a synth actually hosting its own VST effects that can be saved with the patch, like VAZ2010, and Energy XT. Thats a lot of power.

Whatever comes out of a synth is my starting point, whether its got effects on it or not. Even if does have effects built in and switched on, it probably gets another five or six added on by the time I finish. Its all about the final sound, not how you get there.

As long as there is a button to globally* turn Delay and Reverb** off,
I like integrated effects*** very much.


* I mean in the manner of 'snap isolate' in Reaktor: You turn them off and can recall presets without having them turned on again automatically with each preset that was saved with effects.

** Reverb is unnecessary as integrated effect anyway!!

*** Most of all, Stereo-Chorus (i know it's a delay, thank you) should be in every Synth, as well as 3-Band parametric Equalizer. WahWah, Phaser, Dist./Overdrive are also high on the list.

This is a topic that has been covered many, many, many times here on the forum. Some people want simplicity with VSTi's and prefer to use seperate, high quality effects with traditional routing. Others impliment effects so deeply into patch creation that it is necessary to save the effects settings within the synth. Reverb is the effect I tend to avoid in a VSTi'. There is too much difference in quality between a good reverb and included reverbs. Also, using many different reverb's tends to muddy a song and give strange effects. You don't see a band with the drummer playing in a bathroom and the guitarists playing in a closet and the singer in a gym. But people tend to use wildly different reverbs on different parts.

Anyway, this is something that everyone will never agree on. Just like why use built in arps and patterns instead of playing parts yourself, or why use included patches instead of programming your own, or why use a ROMpler instead of playing the real instruments.

Robert

x_bruce wrote:

make some patches sexier

There's nothing wrong with sexier patches!

When you have got that perfect sound that you need for your track, and to get it you used a phaser, a delay and a reverb, then being able to save that complete set-up (synth + effects) as one patch is really the only option for you if you want to use that exact sound in another project without having to set up the effects in the mixer again or if you programmed that perfect sound on the standalone synth and want to get it into your sequencer. Maybe you programmed it in Cubase SX but want to use it in Fruityloops. Or if you want to share the sound with a friend (or submit it to www.patcharena.com ...erm, plug ).

Having built in effects means that you can do this....without this it would be a pain transferring a sound (that wouldn't be as you wanted it without the effects) between projects as you'd have to re-add the effects in the mixer.

Of course you could always use Chainer to save synth/effect set-ups if your VSTi didn't have built in effects to dsave with a patch.

So, thats me. I think built in effects are essential

Thanks,

Alex

I have to say I'm of the simplicity school: no point adding feature bloat!

Of course, some "effects" are essential to the sounds being generated. A multi-oscillator synth with the ability to have velocity-sensitive reverb depth per osc might justify it, for example. (Hey, reverb on your LFOs... mmm...)

If it's just a bolt-on at the end of the signal chain, then I can't see the point of bundling it.

| don't want those add-ons much myself (I have my own favourites) but I see they make for nicer presets so...
I really want to turn them off, I mean properly off, not just reroute the signal like in some SE synths. I still have an 850.

Pentagon and Zeta+ are pretty good examples how internal fx may positively affect the sound design. Apart from that, the fx sections of e.g. Pro53, FM7 etc don't consume much cpu at all.

Just my 2 cents,

Ronny

SimSynth VSTi's reverb and Parameteric EQ are both quite good. A bargain for getting great pad sounds... Onboard Phasor and Delay need more parameters but sound decent.

I agree with Ronny.

Zeta & Pentagon are awesome, largely in part due to their effects, most of which have tempo sync (important to me, I suck at math).

And on the other end of the spectrum, we have FM7's FX, which suck. And most of the FM7 presets are dripping with the same old ping pong delay.

hmmm... thing is, no-one says "i wish the Virus had no built in fx" or whatever hardware synth we're drooling over these days. personally, with my limited cpu power, built in FX are a godsend, the less VSTFX i have to run the better. and you can always switch them off anyhow.

Some synths' fx definitely make the synth.I'll use Absynth as an example(sorry,Bruce );without the multicomb delay and the pipe(waveguide based resonators are very cool,IMHO),a lot of Absynth presets get downright boring...
ew

I recently resumed a VSTi project from several years ago - the ever-popular "drawbar organ" (Search for NuBi here in the instruments forum if your interested). Not surprisingly, one of two most requested features was for a dedicated Leslie simulation. (The other was for keyclick - which I did impliment)

I think for each VSTi there is probably a "critical mass" of tone generation and tone modification built in. The result can be much more CPU efficient and the overall improvement to the sound is undeniable.

peace,
pj geerlings
aka venice

The Leslie simulation in reFX Slayer is excellent. I wish they sold it as a seperate effect...

btw, the built-in reverb of the virus C is HORRIBLE though it's a fantastic
synth. I switch it off every time.

My take on inbuilt effects:

As long as they can be routed to/from anywhere in the signal path they rock, especially reverb is very useful for creating acoustic string simulations when applied to oscillators. But those padded to the output annoy me immensely for their lack of routability. True for both hard- and softsynths.