Hi everyone,

Just wanted to let you all know that there are loads of new musical demos of Atmosphere, Stylus and Trilogy posted at our site:

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/atmosphere.html
http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/stylus/demos.html
http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/trilogy.html

You'll recognize a bunch of great new ones from some kvr-vst regulars like putte, jdg, Mighty Hero and many others (including all the Paul Haslinger Atmosphere demos I promised to post a long time ago!).

Enjoy!

(and tell us what are your favorites too!)

spectrum
(aka:EP from Spectrasonics)

hey spectrum - great stuff! Have all three already (and would gladly buy them again ) but it's great to see so many KVRians getting the showcase on your site - very cool of you guys!


of course I have to ask this - any news for AES? Anything in the works? you've been a little on the quiet side around here recently Something has to be brewing....

Michael

Yep....working hard over here on many exciting new things....



Won't be at AES this time though....sorry!

spectrum

Well, since you asked... my favourites are Putte's (so unique and full of emotion/content), Maarten Spruijt (w w!), and jdg's Vinyl Dream (so moody). The rest is also great stuff!

This is cool. I love hearing music produced for products. I find that almost as entertaining as buying a CD from a good electronica artist.

I never buy a product based on the songs alone, of course. That would be silly. Too bad Spectrasonics refuses to release demo versions of their products, nor populate local music stores with demo copies. And, of course, there's no return policy, no guarantee it'll work with your host, etc. Is Spectrasonics performing an experiment on musicians to see if they will actually fall for this?

Besides Steinberg, I think Spectrasonics is the only company left that doesn't post demo versions. What exactly do they have to hide?

I have a pocket full of money, and Spectrasonics will never see any of it. Doesn't look like they'll ever learn, either.

-Brian

Rather than just complain, I'll mention that I live in the Seattle area, so if there are any local stores that do have a demo, please let me know and I'd be willing to drive there.

I believe EP is a very talented person, as is evident by the various Spectrasonics sample CD libraries that I already own. It's just that there is so much more to a software synth than just the sample data, and the devil is in the details as to whether it works properly, whether I like the features, etc.

-Brian

thenumber23 wrote:

I think Spectrasonics is the only company left that doesn't post demo versions. What exactly do they have to hide?

I think, Brian, that the 'problem' is that you're confusing Spectrasonics with companies like NI, Lin Plug, FXpansion, etc. It's one thing to make a demo version of a synthesizer, it's another thing to make one for a multi-gigabyte sample collection/player. No demo version could ever do justice to the huge amount of sounds that are found in any one of Spectrasonic's 3 instruments. We're talking thousands of samples here!

I recently bought Culture, a similar instrument made by Yellow. I didn't buy it because of their demo version (barely scratches the surface of what's in it), but because of the jaw-dropping list of their sampled instruments, all the praise I read in articles, and, more importantly, in forum posts by people I trust.

From what I've heard, there's full versions of Spectrasonic instruments in most major cities - maybe you should ask your local music store? Unless, of course, you already had your mind made up before you heard any demos at all...

I just want to chime in -thenumber23-

The Spectrasonics VST's themselves are some of the more reportedly stable instruments out there - there are alot of users floating around here, as well as in the Spectrasonics group on Yahoo, who will attest to not only the stability in various formats/hosts/platforms, but also the technical support they provide in the event there is a problem. I've never had to deal with support, but I certainly don't fear it

Demo wise - it always seems like they (spectrasonics) and the retail team try and get demos set up at as many stores as possible, and have really shown to be accomodating to individual users requests.

There also have been many conversations on KVR regarding the idea of a demo, and it always has been a mixed response - but the gist of it is, it is an IMMENSE sound library (if you own sample cd's from them, you are already aware of the quality, i'm sure) and to really present it well, a small downloadable demo is a tough deal. The audio demos, and the in-store demos, are a compromise to some, and there is no shortage of extremely eager and happy current users ( ) here and elsewhere who can and will answer questions/ make recommendations, and in some cases even do up demo tunes.


Please don't think of this as me asskissing spectrasonics, I'm just really really happy with the products (I have all three VST's) and want them to continue getting new users and keep developing products like these.

Michael

Unless I get a money back guarantee, there is a 75% likelihood that I won't buy a product without a demo. And, when there is no in-store demo, that number rises to 100% *unless* it gets green-tagged at Guitar Center and sells for 50% off MSRP. I actually bought a demo-less Steinberg Virtual Guitarist that way. But hey, if Steinberg is happy getting 0% profit off a clearance sale, then I'm happy with the money I save.

The problem is features, interoperability, and the host of other things that you cannot get from an MP3 file. I actually have 121 megs of demo MP3's for Atmosphere and Trilogy. They are very pleasing, and I listen to them approximately once every few months.

However, all the pleasing MP3's in the world won't tell me if the thing works with Sonar 2.2 using Cakewalk VST wrapper 4.3.1 on a Layla 24 with 6.08 drivers. And, that it will or won't play nice with the scores of other LinPlug, NI, and many other softsynths I already have. Each and every single one of those went through the same demo testing process, too.

See where I'm going? No amount of "everyone else is loving it" can guarantee it's going to work for me.

It's not about the size of the soundset anymore. Heck, even my most recent purchase, Plugsound Bundle, had Plugsound Free to sell me on it. Granted, that was 64 megs, but I didn't care.

I'm not going to lay down $349 on a whim if the house is holding all the cards. I wouldn't doubt that Spectrasonics would bend over backwards to support their customers, but if I turn out to be the one where the thing doesn't work, I'm stuck walking on broken glass. And, with Spectrasonics' stricter than usual license agreement on sample libraries (no resale), you can bet darn sure I'm going to make sure everything's peachy before plunking down a buck.

I'd bet there are many other users just like me. We're spoiled with the way software synths exist on planet earth in 2003 (i.e., they all have demos). I'm just more vocal about it.

In other words, no demo, no sale.

-Brian

P.S. I want to like this product. If a local store has a demo, I'll check it out. Guitar Center didn't as of last week.

thenumber23 wrote:

Rather than just complain

I don't believe any large-scale sample-based virtual instruments have downloadable demos. It isn't that they are out to get you, it simply isn't practical to download 5 gigabytes!

I think it's unrealistic that someone from your local music store is monitoring kvr and will reply here. Instead you'll have use a telephone to call or actually visit music stores in your area. Any decent music store will be able to demo it for you.

I've been to my local Guitar Center many times, and have asked about Atmosphere demos many times. They know I'm interested.

I've also emailed Spectrasonics on two occasions in the past regarding in-store demos, as well as downloadable demos.

The competition of ROMplers _do_ have downloadable demos. Plugsound Free, Sampletank Free.

So, that leaves me with only one theory that fits the facts.

Spectrasonics doesn't want to increase their sales base. They are among the minority of companies that does not listen to their customers who are actually telling them what they need to be sold on the product! It seems they want to cater to the high end professional and remove themselves from the purchasing list of mid-end customers. There would seem to be logic in that if Spectrasonics wants their sample libraries to be considered elite and exclusive to a small user base.



I doubt I'd like Stylus, so that leaves Atmosphere and Trilogy. Assuming I were to buy them at an online retailer, and Spectrasonics' take-home amount is 50% MSRP, that means Spectrasonics is walking away from $375 of my money.

I've bought 5 software synths and one sample CD in the last month alone. None of those Spectrasonics. If Spectrasonics wants my money, they know what to do. Of course, if they wait too long, their products will become irrelevant (i.e., Hardcore Bass replaces Trilogy).

The fans who are replying here in defense of Spectrasonics are nice individuals indeed, but none of you will be changing my mind, and I highly doubt Eric will reply. Mainly because he won't change, and I'm right in my assessments.

-Brian

I waited to buy both Atmosphere and Trilogy. I got to demo them at Cream Music and was blown away by Atmosphere. I like Trilogy, but didn't really appreciate until I got it home and throw it inot the mix. Now Trilogy is in there for good.

When are the syncable LFOs coming?

i think puttes is great too.. that guys music just floors me..

where is super hun?

i´m here, jdg ... ... and still follow ...

Some excelentdemos there!!

This "no demo - no buy"-thingie is interesting, as i can understand the doubts being implied.
In my case its the lounge Lizard plug. I´m interested in it since day one, but when i can´t try it i won´t buy it.

In the case of atmosphere my experience is a diffrent one, as i had the chance to hear it at my mate derek´s studio.
I´m absolutely NOT into synths, but this one blew me away. (all sounds in my demo are coming from about 10 instances of atmosphere, the rhythms from phatmatPro)

and yes eric, some very nice demo´s up there.

cheers all
putte

putte:
well, i KNOW you will like lounge lizard.
it's a shame that they don't jave a demo, but i can tell you, it's one of my favourite plugs, and i use it in every song i make

Yeah Putte, don't hesitate on Louge Liz. I use it all the time as well, and it rocks. The new version, with syncable delays, wah, and phase is supah-cool. Sounds great! Never had a problem with it.

thenumber23 wrote:

The competition of ROMplers _do_ have downloadable demos. Plugsound Free, Sampletank Free.

Like I said, there are no downloadable demos of large-scale sampled-based virtual instruments. The cases you list are stripped down versions of the full product, not demos, and give you no idea of what the full product can do. They are less useful than a set of mp3 demo tracks for evaluating the full version.

I think it's good that you want to make an informed decision before you buy. But, it's wrong assign some kind of ulterior motive to Spectrasonics, or to single them out for criticism when there are obvious technical reasons for the current situation, and when all their competitors have the same policy.

Gotta say, I find this rather hostile tone a bit off. Anyway, as about a million people have said before me, EP is a sound designer. The products are sample libaries with a quick user interface. There aren't that many demo sample libraries out there (yeah, HomeGrown and SonicSynth, I know...).

EP, on the other hand, really could do with a demo. Mind you, I'm rather tempted by Scarbee's Wurly...

putte wrote:

This "no demo - no buy"-thingie is interesting, as i can understand the doubts being implied. In my case its the lounge Lizard plug. I´m interested in it since day one, but when i can´t try it i won´t buy it.

Hey Puttchen,

well I'm writing an article about LoungeLizzard 2 right now and will post it on my site very soon...

and when you are near Düsseldorf - just drop by and get to know the bugger - it's way better than emagic's rhodes me thinks

Muly

Oh yeah, and back to topic. Great demos, but could you put "New!" or an upload date by them? They're all good (or you wouldn't have putte them up), but I can't remember which I've heard...

While I completely understand the demo argument, it's not really functional to have one and going by Plugsound and Sampletank Free I wouldn't have bought either of them from the freebie which made them seem really inferior. However I ended up buying Sampletank from reviews and was blown away by it. Spectrasonics stuff is amazing, while I don't own them all yet (I have tried them all) I will at some point. The quality blows everything else available away, Hardcore Bass will not even come close. Trilogy will be the standard for years to come and by the time someone else comes close I'm sure EP will have updated it to glorious new levels. Truth is, their market isn't really to novice I don't think (could be wrong about this). A actually the less people who own it, know about the better for those of us who do so by all means please don't spend you money on any of them (sorry Spectrum, just being sarcastic) you're the only one losing out.

So, since a demo won't be made available, can someone tell me how automation functions within Sonar 2.2 via the Cakewalk VST-DX wrapper? Is it via CC's or does it support VST style automation (or both)? Also, which parameters are automatable and which aren't? Plus, which exact CC#'s are used, and does it use interpolation for the filter cutoff CC? Also, are there any glitches (especially in filter and resonance) when going from 0 to 127 in one step? Does it support program changes, and if so, how long does it take to load an average patch? Will it halt the host during patch load (or cause glitches)?

Also, do they save state properly with the host for reloading with the song? Does this include the position on screen, patch selection, and all parameters?

Does it support large fonts?

Does it glitch/click when multitasking with other disk-based plugins such as Kontakt DFD or GigaStudio? I'm using 7200 RPM IDE drives.

Does it work with the Longhorn beta? Is it compatible with Norton AntiVirus and ZoneAlarm?

Does the copy protection work over the web with text-based browsers, or would it require a phone call? Are they open 24/7, and if not, what's the grace period?

Does it support multiple instances?

Regarding Stylus, exactly how good are the pitch/time stretching algorithms? Is it slice based or FFT based? Do you have control over each slice? I've heard you have to deal with MIDI files with Stylus. Is that true? Why doesn't the plugin do this under the hood? What are the minimum and maximum BPM for the loops (if any limit applies)?

I have a bunch more questions, but I thought I'd start with this, and once I get answers to all of them, I'll move on to the next set.

Thanks,
Brian

thenumber23 wrote:

.....So, that leaves me with only one theory that fits the facts. Spectrasonics doesn't want to increase their sales base. They are among the minority of companies that does not listen to their customers who are actually telling them what they need to be sold on the product! It seems they want to cater to the high end professional and remove themselves from the purchasing list of mid-end customers. There would seem to be logic in that if Spectrasonics wants their sample libraries to be considered elite and exclusive to a small user base. The fans who are replying here in defense of Spectrasonics are nice individuals indeed, but none of you will be changing my mind, and I highly doubt Eric will reply. Mainly because he won't change, and I'm right in my assessments.-Brian

Hi Brian,

Although this discussion has gone way off topic, I'm happy to report that in fact, quite the opposite of your assumptions about Spectrasonics is true. Of course we want to provide our instruments to the largest possible audience and not only pro users. We also highly value the feedback we receive from our end users, which is why I'm active here and on a lot of other forums. The reason for our decision of not providing a demo version is not because of an elitist attitude or because we don't listen to our customers, but simply because we feel that a demo version with a limited sound set would be a very poor representation of our instruments, and we think that its much more important for people to check them out in their full glory to get the proper idea of what they are all about. This is especially true now that we are making instruments geared towards such an incredible diversity of musicians, who all have unique tastes in what they are looking for....a limited sound set just wouldn't work.

This is why we have been putting an enormous amount of energy and resource into getting stores set up around the world so that end users can try them. I'm sorry that your local store is not set up yet, but here's what I suggest doing:

Contact Brad Strickland at ILIO, who is charge of getting the West Coast Guitar Centers in shape.....they are a huge chain with a high turnover in employees...so it takes an extra effort in getting them set up properly. Brad will be happy to contact this Guitar Center in the Seattle area and get them set up with NFRs and demo rigs....and that way you can try the instruments out first hand.

Brad's email is brad@ilio.com

Couple of other misconceptions to clarify about our policies:

1. Customer Service is hugely important to us. Of course, anyone who bought an instrument that did not work properly and are not satisfied with it can contact us to get arrange a refund and return. This is not a problem.

2. We do allow license tranfers on a case by case basis. We do this as part of our customer service in our tech support department. This is something we have added recently to work with various users needs.

I'm not sure why you have formed a negative impression of our policies....we really try to make them as generous and as flexible as possible. I certainly hope I can try and change that! We've worked hard to gain a good reputation in our business, and we will be continuing to improve and refine every aspect of what we do for a very long time......we are always listening to the needs of our users.

I sincerely hope this helps in making your purchasing decision,

Thanks!

spectrum
(aka: Eric Persing)

Since we are so OT from the original subject, I'd really recommend joining the Yahoo Spectrasonics Group, where these types of questions are discussed in great detail.

I'll give a stab at a few quick answers though:

thenumber23 wrote:

So, since a demo won't be made available, can someone tell me how automation functions within Sonar 2.2 via the Cakewalk VST-DX wrapper? Is it via CC's or does it support VST style automation (or both)? Also, which parameters are automatable and which aren't? Plus, which exact CC#'s are used, and does it use interpolation for the filter cutoff CC? Also, are there any glitches (especially in filter and resonance) when going from 0 to 127 in one step?

Automation is handled via MIDI CC automation of all the onscreen knobs and faders of each instrument. The CCs are listed on our web site. We do use interpolation for the fader movements which is pretty smooth. Not sure what you mean by "one step" though.

thenumber23 wrote:

Does it support program changes, and if so, how long does it take to load an average patch? Will it halt the host during patch load (or cause glitches)?

We don't support program changes, because of the variable loading time and also because of the limited number of program change/bank select messages is not enough. Performance would be hard to predict, so it doesn't make sense to use that method. However, we have a much better solution in the works for future versions that will be far more elegant. We know that the concept is very useful.

thenumber23 wrote:

Also, do they save state properly with the host for reloading with the song? Does this include the position on screen, patch selection, and all parameters?

Sure...they recall perfectly...we have lots of Sonar users who use our instruments regularly. You could ask David Abraham Fenton, who is our main Sonar beta tester and a kvr regular too. The only thing I'm not sure about is remembering the screen position....most likely if other plugs in Sonar do this, ours will too.

thenumber23 wrote:

Does it support large fonts?

Not sure what you mean, but they are quite readable compared to many other instruments.

thenumber23 wrote:

Does it glitch/click when multitasking with other disk-based plugins such as Kontakt DFD or GigaStudio? I'm using 7200 RPM IDE drives.

No...our instruments load into RAM, so confilcts with streaming systems are unlikely to happen.

thenumber23 wrote:

Does it work with the Longhorn beta? Is it compatible with Norton AntiVirus and ZoneAlarm?

Should be.....if the Plugsound free works, then ours will too. It is based on the same basic engine structure.

thenumber23 wrote:

Does the copy protection work over the web with text-based browsers, or would it require a phone call? Are they open 24/7, and if not, what's the grace period?

Text based browsers should be fine. Open 24/7 and you get instant authorization, and you can get additional authorizations automatically on the site too.

thenumber23 wrote:

Does it support multiple instances?

Sure.

thenumber23 wrote:

Regarding Stylus, exactly how good are the pitch/time stretching algorithms?

The BEST!

Groove Control products slow down better than ANY other system on the market. This is because we fine tune this for every loop using proprietary tools and methods. That's really why it works so well......it just works!

thenumber23 wrote:

Is it slice based or FFT based? Do you have control over each slice?

Slice based, and you have complete control over every slice.

thenumber23 wrote:

I've heard you have to deal with MIDI files with Stylus. Is that true?

Yes...just drag and drop in Sonar...very easy. Lots of cool stuff in the works for the future too....

thenumber23 wrote:

What are the minimum and maximum BPM for the loops (if any limit applies)?

No limit on speeding up, slowing down is very good with at least 20-30 BPM with perfect quality, and many loops can even be used at half speed and still sound great and musical. Like I said before, this is something about Groove Control that is far better than any other time stretch or slicing software. We go way beyond in terms of usable range.

Hope that's helpful....


spectrum

I live where music stores hardly exist. I had to buy ALL THREE on the demo's and trusting Eric......the products they sell are worth every penny.

Yeah .. I don't mind adding my voice to the Atmo love crowd.

Use it all the time.

Wrote a fairly long review of it in June entitled Is Atmosphere Worth the Money? http://www.traxmusic.org/reviews.shtml

Quote:

Of course, if they wait too long, their products will become irrelevant (i.e., Hardcore Bass replaces Trilogy).

IMO, Hardcore Bass wont ever replace Trilogy...
I waited for HC bass to be released for months, and just happened to stumble onto Spectrasonics one afternoon a while ago. I dont need or desire HC now that I have Trilogy, because it does so much more.

Wow! I'm more than a little impressed. Eric, your reply was extremely helpful! Thank you.

I will email Brad tomorrow and give him a follow-up call (if needed). Hopefully he will be able to work with either Guitar Center or another local store to set up a demo kiosk. I know the salespeople at my local GC well, so it should be easy for me to work with them on setting it up.

Also, the details you gave me on the trio of plugins was extremely useful. And, with the customer service policies you mentioned, that reduces my main worry regarding program incompatibility. Fortunately Plugsound is working fine so far, so I hope I won't have problems if I buy Atmo and/or Trilogy.

I know I'm a squeaky wheel, but the flip side is when I like a product, I'm vocal about recommending it to others.

Thank you,
Brian

Love atmosphere,

When is the update coming?

Syncable LFOs? Has the been dropped or is it still in the works?

For technical reasons, LFO sync wasn't an easy thing to just add-on to the current structure of our instruments...but it will be happening as a small part of some very big things we are working on now for next year......lots of cool stuff in the works, and we are pretty confident that everyone will be quite pleased!
(just not time yet to talk about it....)

spectrum

spectrum wrote:

For technical reasons, LFO sync wasn't an easy thing to just add-on to the current structure of our instruments...but it will be happening as a small part of some very big things we are working on now for next year......lots of cool stuff in the works, and we are pretty confident that everyone will be quite pleased! (just not time yet to talk about it....) spectrum

That is good to hear. I just bought Atmosphere and love the thing, great sounds. I tell a lot of work went into it.

We there be a charge for the upgrade?

I never could get the LFO on my MiniMoog to sync to MIDI.

Robert

Ned Bouhalassa wrote:

Well, since you asked... my favourites are Putte's (so unique and full of emotion/content), Maarten Spruijt (w w!), and jdg's Vinyl Dream (so moody). The rest is also great stuff!

Funny you say that. Those are nice, but Scratchmosphere by some punk named Ned Bouhalassa is still my favorite. That demo has some attitude. It convinced me to get Stylus.

And as someone else already said, it is great to see so many KvRists represented.

Robert

I just bought Atmosphere and installed it for the first time earlier this evening. It behaves pretty much the same as Plugsound Free did, so no surprises there.

What is so great about it, is that it is everything I had hoped it would be. Which is rather amazing, because my hopes were pretty high. (I'll spare the easy pun). I was about to give up on soft synths and get some hardware so I could get some top quality sound design again. Atmosphere replaces FM7 as my #1 favorite soft synth. No need for me to buy hardware now. Though I could still use an all-purpose ROMpler somewhere down the line. (hint hint). Atmosphere will keep me occupied for a long time though, so no hurry.