im not trying to start any debates but could anyone clarify for me what exactly about analog synths makes them warmer than digital? I mean I know why it physically does but is it just something that could be replicated using a software eq if you really know what you're doing and what character you want the sound to take on?

It's hard for me to notice the difference between analog and digital since all of the analog synths I have owned/used were vintage synths that would have a diff sound to them anyways due to it simply being less advanced technology. Is this analog warmth something that translates over even to the digital wav format when recorded? Or is it just something purists drool over because the majority of digital synths they have used just try to badly replicate the old analog ones? discuss!

Some of the analogue synths' warmth can be explained by the fact that the oscillators would not stay perfectly in-tune - leading to slight variations in the pitch and timbre of the sound.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me could explain it a bit better

nah fishfinger i dont think it can be explained better
thats about it really due to irregularities in temperature n stuff the anologue equipment would behave differently

Well that, and the fact that you'll never be able to make a 'pure' wave form with digital, since it'll always be 'stepped' because of a sampling rate.

Devon

Add to that the fact that in the original analogs,you have discrete components with a +/- tolerance as far as resistance,etc.goes.The fact that it's not exact adds that character to the sound.
ew

Just use digital synths and claim you only use analog. Nobody will ever argue with you. It's great fun watching all the bullshitters agree that you can always tell real analog. Try it. It works 100% of the time.

nuffink wrote:

Just use digital synths and claim you only use analog. Nobody will ever argue with you. It's great fun watching all the bullshitters agree that you can always tell real analog. Try it. It works 100% of the time.

I must say, ive always hated electronica till recently but been big on rock with keys so I've gathered lots of analog keyboards. I just bought a k-station and thinkingabout getting somehting else finacially permitting and the k-station is as good as, if not better in sound than most of my analogs. features wise it blows em away...

-R bert

And to reply to the original post whether or not it can be emulated - if it really is just the irregularities the others mentioned, then sure - via lfo's or also via automation of the osc's and stuff like that... The Cube/MicroTERA/Absynth can also do the same thing if you link some of the parameters to all those 64-point-envelopes if I am not horribly mistaken.

1Ghz 256 x oversampled physically modelled resistors, capacitors and inductors along with simulated varying temperature and circuit load modules may shut the doubters up.

Then again, maybe not...

My Roland JV1080 has a parameter called "Analog Feel". If you turn it up high, everything goes real wobbly and queasy. If you turn it up a bit, it turns "warm". I've got the Vintage Synth expansion board with samples of vintage oscillators. The only place it may be found to not be "analog" is at some of the higher filter resonance settings.

nuffink wrote:

Just use digital synths and claim you only use analog. Nobody will ever argue with you. It's great fun watching all the bullshitters agree that you can always tell real analog. Try it. It works 100% of the time.

You haven't gotten me with it yet &, if you keep trying to do it with your Pro-53, you never will.

One thing about real analog is that the components - especially the filters - saturate in a way that most digital cannot. I'm not talking full out distortion, just enough so that things sound a bit warmer & looser. This also makes the tone more dynamic because the instruments will more at some settings & notes than others.

btw, not all analogs are all that. The cheap analog synths of the last 10 years may sound good for some things but most of them lack the qualities that make the classic analogs classics. Same goes for Korg, Kawai, Chroma, & many Roland & Moog analogs, I wouldn't even put the ARP 2600 in the same class as the Mini or Prophet-5 (& I've gone through 3 of them).

at the point that digital sample rate and bit depth gets far enough above the human hearing range that not even the most golden eared of golden eared could hope to reach it, I think that the doubters will finally have to climb down off the soap box. Let's face it, it's there, just not practical for the standard CPU's that we all use. I give it a year or two though. It is pretty exciting to think about component moddeling becoming an affordable technology soon. Strangely enough, that is how I had thought that "virtual analogue" was done all along, until about a year ago, when I had learned enough about all this stuff to figure it out.
To explore this stuff for yourself is the most enjoyment. Hell, there are some SynthEdit VSTis out there that do very very convincing analogue. If it ever gets to version one, it will probably make some serious waves in the analog purist circles... actually, scratch that. Nothing will be enough, ever, for some people.
I am waiting for a touch screen set up, with 32/192, and V/R performance options...

Kyros, the technology already exists that has knocked analog purists like myself off our high horses. The thing is that you won't get it with native VSTi's, the two digital synths that sound closer to great analogs than any other digital synth can be found for the Creamware Pulsar: Minimax & Pro One. These have the aggressive bite yet loose warmth that even few real analogs can capture, let alone any digital synth I've ever heard.

btw, the issue isn't just about raw horsepower. The Creamware cards have had the same amount of power on hand for 4 years now yet it's only in the last year that their synths have gotten to this level of quality. The fact is that their programmers have become more skilled & talented over the years & will hopefully continue to improve. Even when native processors are powerful enough to compete with dsp's, I wouldn't be surprised if the abilities of the Creamware programmers continue to outpace most native developers by a good margin (though I won't put money on that! ).

Yo, E.
Your knowledge on the subject is much superior to mine, so I'll have to hand it ot you. Incidentally, how far are we from seeing component modeling available to the masses, in your opinion? And what do you think it will sound like?
You seem to be in the majority as far as the creamware dsp cards go; the consensus is that they sound fantastic, despite the complaints some have with the technical side. Is the Pro One you mentioned the one that is on the Wine Country site, and did they actually make it? I used to have a Pro One, and I absolutely think that it's one of the best monosynths ever. No, it's not the only one I ever had!! I genuinely prefer it to others, 303 included.
So, as far as DSP chips, and/or VST/native, heres what I would like to see: Low or at least reasonably priced USB pluggins, about the size of a dongle, each one sporting a nice synth, be it an Arp modular, with choice of modules etc, or a virtual rack in which to place up to 4 mono synths; all of them perfectly integratable into your favorite host via the VST/AU/DXi standards. Simply plug the little bastard in, show it which folder the dll would live in, and bang, the ease of VST with the synthesis power of DSP chips, and all completely "PARADOX" proof!!!
Yeah, right!!! dream on, right? What do you think... is it viable?
Chrrz

Uncle E wrote:

You haven't gotten me with it yet &, if you keep trying to do it with your Pro-53, you never will.

You make it sound like I've tried Eric. I'm more than willing, are you?

kryos:
what a beautiful dream.

Quote:

Just use digital synths and claim you only use analog. Nobody will ever argue with you. It's great fun watching all the bullshitters agree that you can always tell real analog. Try it. It works 100% of the time.

In a german forum some month ago there was test: someone made a song using some real analog synths and some VSTs. You had to guess, which is which. Noone got everything right.

I saw a show on German TV last week where they gave a bunch of gourmets/restaurant critics food that ad just bought at some grocery store and they really didn't get it. You saw them while they were eating, too, and them strting getting really elaborate and pseudo-eloquent and stuff and in the end it was all bs. And another similar show a few months back, where they gave them two meals - one high-quality products, the other grocery store crap - none of them got all right, but they still tried to sound oh so sophisticated about it.

I've never owned a good analogue synth, so i don't really know what (if anything) im missing.

As a guitarist however, NO digital model I have ever tried has even come close to the organic glowing beauty that is my valve rig

If the Anal(ogue) Synth Purists can hear/feel even a fraction of that kind of difference, then I sympathise heartily!

Perhaps we should do a similar test with guitaramps?

congrats all to this nice athmosphere in this thread!