Possibly the best 303 software emulation yet is finally available for purchase:

http://www.audiorealism.se/

Price is 95 Euros.

hummmmmmm no demo yet? the audio samples are quite good but i'm not gonna pay 95 euros for an aplication without testing it hands down

polartech wrote:

Price is 95 Euros.

Thats a joke right?

Seems fairly priced to me ...considering is is probably the most accurate emulation of the TB-303 we have seen to date

PatchArena wrote:

Seems fairly priced to me ...considering is is probably the most accurate emulation of the TB-303 we have seen to date

Seen yes, but not heard. I'll see what the demo is like, although i wont be buying it anyway, but i will give it the once over.

303 emulations seem to be following the trend of HW 303's, hideously overpriced.

Hurraaaa !

I must say I discovered Creaktime yesterday and it's gonnan be a hard desicion wheter I but Bassline or not. But I'm not going to buy something if there's no demo. Only mp3's is like 'buy our car, but you may not make a testdrive. Instead of that someone of the company drives the car and you may sit next him and watch.." Well anyway, you know what i mean..

Nevertheless it's without a doubt a topquality product!

PatchArena wrote:

Seems fairly priced to me ...considering is is probably the most accurate emulation of the TB-303 we have seen to date

Yep! That is one way over priced bass imo. When I think of the advanced synths I can get at the same or less money – why limit yourself to just one emulation?

Is it not time to move to more advanced sounds, rather than copy something that has been copied over and over plus used to such an extent?

Regards,

Spe3d

Quote:

When I think of the advanced synths I can get at the same or less money – why limit yourself to just one emulation?

I can tell you this IS a very advanced synth.
The 303 is the most funky and expressive synth you can get for basslines.
Its a classic sound, thats why we need a perfect emulation (as well as a perfect piano, or saxophone etc)

easymode wrote:

Quote: When I think of the advanced synths I can get at the same or less money – why limit yourself to just one emulation? I can tell you this IS a very advanced synth. The 303 is the most funky and expressive synth you can get for basslines. Its a classic sound, thats why we need a perfect emulation (as well as a perfect piano, or saxophone etc)

Yep! People tell me lots of things, I am going to make my own mind up on this one - when there is a demo, and the price is right.

The only way to get a perfect piano or saxophone is to play the real thing, you can only emulate so far.

Here is a synth that to be accurate actually has to be flawed to sound realistic to the circuitry – though I think there is more chance to closely copy a 303 than a piano in synthesis.

Nar! Give me something more thrilling, or at least price it correctly.

Regards,

Spe3d

Another 303 emulation?? hmm... last i heard was Muon saying they have the best to date. I tried it but nothing to shout about. Rebirth in my opinion has the best sounding 303 yet.

Lets see what this has to offer

way too expensive for me, especially with no demo.
and close to the same price as discovery, rhino..etc.

tansu wrote:

Another 303 emulation?? hmm... last i heard was Muon saying they have the best to date.

How hard they yell it, it just isn't true.. Bassline and creakbox are both much better. Much of the detailed sounds which a 303 can make, can simply not be done by Tau2. Despite the marketing talk 'we have emulated the circuits from the 303'. Don' believe the hype, only your ears..

Quote:

Much of the detailed sounds which a 303 can make, can simply not be done by Tau2. Despite the marketing talk 'we have emulated the circuits from the 303'. Don' believe the hype, only your ears..

Thats right, but at 15€ its still a bargain, and a good bassline.

I bought a licence of Tau Pro when it came out, also a good bassline for 20$. But just like you I want a exact (or 99,99% correct) emulation of the 303 since it has a truley unique sound. I think I will stick to the demo of Creakbox for the moment. Let's see if Audiorealism manages to release a demoversion of their bassline.. Try before buy

Hi! This is my first post on kvr-vst.
I am the developer of ABL. It is rather pricey but I it really does its job well.

Initializing Behaviours:
ABL is a 99.99% correct emulation. But yes, I know, you have all heard that claim before

About demo versions:
Its very possible there will be a demo version in a few weeks.

Best Regards,
Mike Janney

__mike wrote:

Best Regards, Mike Janney

Hi Mike,

If your Bassline is really the same (or better) as FreeBee, I agree. I've heard the claim before, but the difference is that I tried Freebee, Creakbox and Tau2, so I may judge, in contrary to Bassline. Freebee is a great reproduction and I just want to try your Bassline before buying. Because this industry is full of marketing, I guess you know what I mean..

Well since I wrote Freebee I can tell you that ABL is improved in every area, esp the accent. Also ABL can be set to Freebee emulation mode if you really want that sound . (Granted it does not sound exactly like Freebee even then, the goal was to make a 303 emulator, not a Freebee emulator).

/Mike

that is really expensive for something that doesn't even offer a demo of what it sounds like (just whip up some mp3s of you twisting the knobs, is that so hard?). and also some sort of explanation of why it is different from EVERY OTHER 303 emulator.

sorry buddy, but unless you try a bit harder you are destined to sell nothing. we have seen this kind of pitch before and it reeks of a SCAM. if your product is so good, let it shine and people will buy it if they think it is worth it. nobody is gonna gamble their money after taking your word for it, that's way too shady.

Mentioning 303 in the subject title is like lighting the touch paper on dynamite...
Somebody better get some kittens ready, this thread's gonna blow. I can feel it

Quote:

that is really expensive for something that doesn't even offer a demo of what it sounds like (just whip up some mp3s of you twisting the knobs, is that so hard?). and also some sort of explanation of why it is different from EVERY OTHER 303 emulator. sorry buddy, but unless you try a bit harder you are destined to sell nothing. we have seen this kind of pitch before and it reeks of a SCAM. if your product is so good, let it shine and people will buy it if they think it is worth it. nobody is gonna gamble their money after taking your word for it, that's way too shady.

Its incredible to hear things like that.
This guy (mike) is the first one that has been able to emulate the 303.
95€ for a 303 is a bargain (i mean, it IS really a 303 when you listen to it)
If you dont like the 303, just go elsewhere, but dont criticize.

I'll upload some real tweaks soon. Right now I knew that alot of users were waiting for the release so I decided to release it first to those people and then try to convince the masses.
Meanwhile, if you are happy with Tau2 or Creakbox, stick with them as they are both great products.
/Mike

Quote:

Meanwhile, if you are happy with Tau2 or Creakbox, stick with them as they are both great products.

Mike, I really like your attitude. It's a refreshing change from the 303 fighting that has gone on in the past

For me personally, I don't live and die by the concept of obtaining a 'pure' 303 emulator, in fact I doubt I've ever even heard a real 303, at least without being processed to death in the middle of a mix. So for me this is competing with Rhino, Discovery, and some other synths that I *really* want with a very wide range of sound possibilites, so I have to say that for my needs it is surely overpriced. I bought Tau Pro, Tau 2, and many other sub-$40 synths, and if this was in that price range I would pick it up for SURE, however at $95 you probably won't get my purchase...

However.... you should stick to your guns and charge what you think your product is worth. It seems that people will be happy to pay that if the 303 emu is as good as you claim, so well done sir! And as long as you have such a good attitude towards other offerings in the VSTi market, I can't see anyone taking you to issue for your own policies.

Well done sir...so far this thread has been a nice change from what I expected it to be!

Best wishes,
LG

easymode wrote:

Its incredible to hear things like that. This guy (mike) is the first one that has been able to emulate the 303. 95€ for a 303 is a bargain (i mean, it IS really a 303 when you listen to it) If you dont like the 303, just go elsewhere, but dont criticize.

if it's so great where are the samples so i can hear it? maybe i'm missing something but i just looked and didn't see any samples of it in operation, nor a demo version, and i see other people saying the same thing.

don't say i'm criticizing because i'm not.. how can i criticize something i can't even hear? more to the point, how can ANYONE justify buying something without any more than seeing a picture of it? i can photoshop an image of a 303 and put it on a sampler with 303 sounds and sell it for 95 euro, but it's not honest of me unless i mention how it works (ie why someone should buy MINE instead of any other) and give samples so people can understand.

i'm trying to help the guy out here by telling him what people who buy software think. i'm one of those people, and if you want to sell me software you have to consider what i am looking for. i will NEVER drop money on something without knowing a bit about what it can do for me. a testimonial from the maker or one of his friends is not good enough.

[quote="easymode"]

Quote:

This guy (mike) is the first one that has been able to emulate the 303. If you dont like the 303, just go elsewhere, but dont criticize.

@Mike...as I checked the MP3´s the first time,I believed "This is maybe fake,it can´t be good like this"...

YOU ARE MY SuperHeroCoder
Go on making awesome plugins,plz!!!

Amper

Sunrise: Strange, the audio demos should be visible on my site. Have you tried reloading each page?

Amper-II: thanks for the nice words about the mp3's!

If ABL does well there will certainly be more plug-ins from audiorealism.

Mike

hmm..
the audio demos sound great!

I have to admire the detail of those demos, they sound very authentic. The real TB sounds still "rounder" after all it's true analog but you have managed to capture the sound characteristics very well. I'm sure it should sell very well if you manage to catch the interest of those who are willing to buy that classic sound.

sunrinse wrote:

that is really expensive for something that doesn't even offer a demo of what it sounds like (just whip up some mp3s of you twisting the knobs, is that so hard?)

You mean like the demos of what it sounds like on the website? He really should offer the demos that he does offer. Strange that he doesn't, apart from the fact that he does.

Mike, this sounds exactly like the real thing to me. You must be really confident when you put it up against wav's of the real 303!

If you see what people are willing to pay for the hardware version, then 95€ is not much to ask for such a good emulation.

Hope you bring out a Juno or Jupiter one day that emulates the real thing as good as this one!

Peter.

Thanks guys for your comments.

pschelfh:

Quote:

Mike, this sounds exactly like the real thing to me. You must be really confident when you put it up against wav's of the real 303!

The word 'exactly' is kind of subjective, and even different 303's sound different, so we set out to make something that sounds as good as a 303.

I'd like to make more emulators (or at least try to capture characteristic of other gear). I was into emulating the Fender Rhodes some years ago but gave that up after Lounge Lizard appeared.

/Mike

Mike...

You could always try a remake of the MuTron effect units from the 1970's.

I think that if you could recapture the sound and response of the MuTron III, with the stability and convienence of a VST plugin, you would have one hot seller on your hands.

Just my 2-cents!

Cheers,
LG (yet another Mike)

I'm not one to get into these 303 discussions, but I have to commend __Mike on this plug... I just listened to the demos, and it really does sound great!

sunrinse, I'll make this easy for you..

http://www.audiorealism.se/products.htm

click this link

then click on the links under the ABL title to hear it in action.

abltb1.wav
abltb2.wav etc etc

those are all ABL..

..hope it makes sense for you now..

Wow it sounds really really good! I can imagine that people will pay 95 euro for that...
Roland would never let this happen, so I guess you (Mike) were able to get a nice deal with them?

I think Roland might pick on the UI but not on the emulation, if it was coded from scratch Roland has no rights about it

Durk wrote:

Wow it sounds really really good! I can imagine that people will pay 95 euro for that... Roland would never let this happen, so I guess you (Mike) were able to get a nice deal with them?

Roland can't do shit about it, it's an analog synth. Give it waveforms like a Wavestation, or the like, THEN they can sue, as the waveforms are protectable material. Could you imaginge if someone patents a squarewave?

Devon

Just listened to the demo wavs and mp3s at the AudioRealism site and must say that I like the sound of the ABL better than that of the original TB, except for example 4 where it's vice versa.

that's crazy. I just strung together some of the samples in acid, alternating the TB and the Audio Realism Bass Line, and there is no difference. None. Even analyzers hardly pick up anything. I am really amazed, and somewhat smug... hehehe... this has got to grate on the nerves of some of the hardware puritans; then again, maybe they are as pleased about it as I am!
Anyway, nice coding... and nice production on the examples too

samples are incredible, this is THE ONE

Just thought I'd pop in for a change since this is a 303 thread

I'd say ABL is the 303 VSTi I've been always looking for - covers the requirements regarding features from the original beast and throws in a bunch more. And it sounds simply marvellous.

As for the sound quality and accuracy of emulation, can't be bothered anymore 303-wise I'm finally sorted.

Now, let's see if there will ever be a full version of Creakbox (perhaps in two years?-) to 'compare' it to... meanwhile, Creakbox sounds great, and Tau2 sounds bloody marvellous. It's simply the overall package ABL delivers that makes it a must in my book. The sound, the sequencer and the extra features.

I'm in love

JMH

The demo mp3's sound great!

the only problem is, there is no mention ANYWHERE on your site about a mac version, or lack thereof. I have checked in detail..Id i missed it please advise...i presume it's win only as freebee was though so what's your view on a mac version Mike?

Also, seriously, you should try and make a demo download available sonner than a few weeks. The main reason being, so people can test STABILITY of the actualy vst in their host..i'd hate to buy something and find it crashes all the time for example..mp3's are fine for sound demo, but not to test cpu usage and stabilty.

I can see why he released it though. There are plenty of people out there with money to burn, who will buy it VSTi unseen in a demo. That puts money in his pocket NOW, and food on his table NOW especially when the product obviously is done. He just has to put up with a bunch of guys whining in a forum for a demo (myself included, mind you ) but I understand why he did it.

The demo .wav's sound INCREDIBILY close to the original. Very impressive.

Mike, just do us a favor? When you do release the demo, PLEASE don't put bursts of white noise every 15 seconds? If you do anything that detracts from the audio, do a total drop in volume every 30-45 seconds instead of hurting our ears. Still wish more demos came out that are fully functional except for stops working after 20-30 minutes, doesn't allow audio export, and can't save. I'd actually check into the CS80 more if those bursts were gone. Oh well. Sounded pretty decent at least, more so than most of the emulations I've heard and didn't like.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

Durk wrote: Wow it sounds really really good! I can imagine that people will pay 95 euro for that... Roland would never let this happen, so I guess you (Mike) were able to get a nice deal with them? Roland can't do shit about it, it's an analog synth. Give it waveforms like a Wavestation, or the like, THEN they can sue, as the waveforms are protectable material.

Yeah, you're very true! Thanks to clear this up.

DevonB wrote:

Could you imaginge if someone patents a squarewave?

Sssssttt... maybe Roland reads this thread too!

and yeah, I can really imagine that!

I think the time of REAL 303 emulation has come

I just wanna hear them accents burble growl and accumlate

"Since the (simulated) capacitors haven’t discharged completely the accents
accumulate in a way driving the cutoff higher and higher."

Thanks for the comments guys!

ttoz:
As I don't have a Mac I have to wait for enough sales of ABL to be able to buy one+compiler. ABL should port to Mac pretty easily, there is almost no windows specific code in it.

Mike Janney

ttoz wrote:

the only problem is, there is no mention ANYWHERE on your site about a mac version...

There is. In the feature list it says "not available yet"... whatever that means, at least they are thinking about it obviously.

EDIT: had not seen Mike's comment, when I wrote this...

This is the one. ABL blows the competition out of the water.

sincerely
LarsErik

easymode wrote:

Quote: that is really expensive for something that doesn't even offer a demo of what it sounds like (just whip up some mp3s of you twisting the knobs, is that so hard?). and also some sort of explanation of why it is different from EVERY OTHER 303 emulator. Its incredible to hear things like that. This guy (mike) is the first one that has been able to emulate the 303. 95€ for a 303 is a bargain (i mean, it IS really a 303 when you listen to it) If you dont like the 303, just go elsewhere, but dont criticize.

I also find it incredible that people think 100 euros is a lot.. I mean, if I go out partying a night in Helsinki (not exactly a cheap city but not even near the most expensive) I spend atleast that amount if not more. Normal dinner with starter, drinks and dessert = about 30-40 euros. Beer, drinks,tickets to club etc. = 30-60 euros.

Man, the crappiest salary you can get is about 3 euros/hour (and that's when taxes are already taken away) which means a weeks work gets you a synth that can give you lots of joy. What are you guys comparing these audio softwares to? Games? CDs? Videos??

Cheers!
bManic the poor (but not that poor) student

bmanic wrote:

Man, the crappiest salary you can get is about 3 euros/hour (and that's when taxes are already taken away) which means a weeks work gets you a synth that can give you lots of joy. What are you guys comparing these audio softwares to? Games? CDs? Videos?? Cheers! bManic the poor (but not that poor) student

To Other ‘software’ synths in that price range,

Regards,

Spe3d

bmanic wrote:

I mean, if I go out partying a night in Helsinki (not exactly a cheap city but not even near the most expensive) I spend atleast that amount if not more. Normal dinner with starter, drinks and dessert = about 30-40 euros. Beer, drinks,tickets to club etc. = 30-60 euros.

Whoo, sounds like a wild party

bmanic wrote:

I also find it incredible that people think 100 euros is a lot.. What are you guys comparing these audio softwares to? Games? CDs? Videos??

Its monophonic synth for christ sake.....

kryos wrote:

that's crazy. I just strung together some of the samples in acid, alternating the TB and the Audio Realism Bass Line, and there is no difference. None. Even analyzers hardly pick up anything. I am really amazed, and somewhat smug... hehehe... this has got to grate on the nerves of some of the hardware puritans; then again, maybe they are as pleased about it as I am! Anyway, nice coding... and nice production on the examples too

umm.. maybe it's time you start training your ears then? I hear a difference trough my GF's laptop's speakers. It's quite subtle but it's there.. could be that some of the ALB demos have too much reso or so which makes some of the demos not a 50/50 comparison. Disregarding this, there is still some "roundness" ,like somebody here already said, that lacks in the ALB demos but it's extremely subtle.
I'm sure it wont bother in a song as it seems a lot of people here don't hear any difference anyhow.

Great sounds Mike!! IMO it's definately worth the 95$.. heck, it's a bargain!

Cheers!
bManic

PS. remeber how much RB-338 cost? eh?

bmanic wrote:

I also find it incredible that people think 100 euros is a lot.. I mean, if I go out partying a night in Helsinki (not exactly a cheap city but not even near the most expensive) I spend atleast that amount if not more. [...] bManic the poor (but not that poor) student

How cynical!

dr.wackler wrote:

bmanic wrote: I also find it incredible that people think 100 euros is a lot.. I mean, if I go out partying a night in Helsinki (not exactly a cheap city but not even near the most expensive) I spend atleast that amount if not more. [...] bManic the poor (but not that poor) student How cynical!

Cynical? Please explain.. It just buggs me when people complain about price when it's so low. People here whine about stuff that is 30-50$ range. Maybe I'm in a bad mood (well, now I am) but come on people! Put stuff in some perspective!

bManic

bmanic wrote:

Cynical? Please explain..

Thought that's obvious: It's cynical to spend 100+ € for going out partying a night, and then consider oneself a 'poor' student.
Maybe when mummy and daddy stop supporting you and after you have been travelling a bit more, you'll understand the cynicism in your words.

Quote:

Its monophonic synth for christ sake.....

But a mono synth (ie Prophecy)can sound better than a 360 voices synth.
Thats not an argument.
A bass guitar or a sax are monophonic too (usually ...

bmanic: I investigated the "bouncyness" it and it goes this:
I recorded the ABL from the soundcard output using VST host. This killed some of the dynamics.

So heres a new comparison, where I rendered the output from Logic Audio 5.3 instead:

http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/abltb5.wav
http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/realtb5.wav

I didn't get the knob movements exactly right, but its the dynamics I want to demonstate here.

bmanic, thanks for pointing out that difference . You must really have a good set of ears, I didn't catch that one.

Mike

bmanic wrote:

It just buggs me when people complain about price when it's so low. People here whine about stuff that is 30-50$ range. Maybe I'm in a bad mood (well, now I am) but come on people! Put stuff in some perspective! bManic

Please calm down. Why do you want people have to shut up about the price? Why is it whining when they think it's too expensive? May they judge for themselves? May they put things in their own and not your perspective?

Thanks!

Initializing Behaviours wrote:

bmanic wrote: It just buggs me when people complain about price when it's so low. People here whine about stuff that is 30-50$ range. Maybe I'm in a bad mood (well, now I am) but come on people! Put stuff in some perspective! bManic Please calm down. Why do you want people have to shut up about the price? Why is it whining when they think it's too expensive? May they judge for themselves? May they put things in their own and not your perspective? Thanks!

Oh, I hear them whine when it's too cheap, so since it's cheap, it must be shit... It doesn't matter, you'll only please the people who want to buy it and lay out the cash for it. Well, maybe not even then. Never let the naysayers get ya down though.

Devon

__mike wrote:

Thanks for the comments guys! ttoz: As I don't have a Mac I have to wait for enough sales of ABL to be able to buy one+compiler. ABL should port to Mac pretty easily, there is almost no windows specific code in it. Mike Janney

it's cool to know you are open minded about the idea of a mac version i hope you get 1000 sales this month

finally...

someone gets it right and releases it *with* the sequencer for the special constant-time slides.

creakbox had this too but the timbre was off still...
(plus it's only got one pattern in the vsti "demo")

mike, you rule. i'm currently studying dsp in school, is there any chance i can email you sometime and pick your brain about how you went about the emulation?

dan

Hi Ingenier,

You can always email me questions, but I can't give away any trade secrets. I can talk about general DSP stuff tho!

Mike

hi, mike

if i were you, i just wouldn't release a demo version.
as far as i know people (not all) tend not to buy products when a playable demo is available.

for instance, i never bought some expensive NI synth, but i rendered them to audio in my sequencer to get the sound...

as far as money is concerned, the price of your baby is not fixed so you can still change it in the future.

hope it will be a succes!

kepa1 wrote:

hi, mike if i were you, i just wouldn't release a demo version. as far as i know people (not all) tend not to buy products when a playable demo is available.

WRONG. If the demo limitation is thought through very carefully indeed, this scenario won't occur. reFX has a good one: Fully functional for X minutes, after that point a noise fades in and out again every Y (60?) seconds, and then the whole thing ceases output after Z minutes. Not intrusive, but keeps people from rendering things to disk.

kepa1 wrote:

for instance, i never bought some expensive NI synth, but i rendered them to audio in my sequencer to get the sound...

That's because you're a cheeky bugger

Mike: ABL looks (and sounds) quite amazing indeed, congratulations

bmaniac:
train your fucking eyes; I said some of the samples, I also said I put them together in a track. Of course there is a difference if you a/b them, although some are so close, them average ears would never notice. No difference in a track means that nobody listening to the track would suddenly look at the speakers and say: "what happened to the bassline... that's not a real 303!" Also the spectrum analisys of the solo'd track changed so subtly that I was amazed. I though for sure there would be more change in some of the harmonics.
don't take my word for it though. try it. use example 3 for instance.

Quote:

Also the spectrum analisys of the solo'd track changed so subtly that I was amazed. I though for sure there would be more change in some of the harmonics.

hey kryos,

i agree with you for the most part but remember that there are two important aspects when doing analysis:

even if the FFT (magnitude) is very similar for two sounds, the phase component may be different, making them totally different sounds.

an identical frequency-domain representation of the amplitude of two sampled sounds is not enough to be able to say they are the same timbre.

i know, anal, but just pointing something out --- and if you already knew this, then excuse me, i wasn't trying to be condescending.

Very impressive demos. The Roland 808 with this level of accuracy would be great.

its kind of amazing to me that ppl will still pay money for a sound that has been stomped into the ground.

Yeah, like pianos... whats up with that?

useless old men.

Has anyone actually purchased this synth yet and can comment on performance, usability, etc? All I've read so far are opinions based on the mp3/wav demos, I would love to hear some feedback from users who went that extra step and purchased it.

ArneyS (as well as everybody else):

I've been using it for a short while now so here we go, some comments about it - disclaimer: I *really really really* like ABL, so bear that in mind whean reading this

Performancewise more than ok. 4% on my machine (AMD AthlonXP 2500+ Barton).

Usability then. It's a no-brainer really - about the only 'problem' with it was realising that when synced to host, you use notes to trigger the patterns
(because of assuming that when synced to host, it would automatically receive start/stop from the host... the way it actually works is rather nice, you can start and stop the internal sequencer freely which is great for noodling around with patterns independently of the song you're working on in the host
Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever, been using several instances all receiving automation of all parameters.

The extra features also come in very handy, such as those related to patterns - transposing them etc. The 24dB filter is a good addition, it gives you a little bit different character but not too different from the normal filter. The distortion is very suitable for the 303 sound, although for madly shrieking "sparrows on acid" style earpiercing things you have to dig out something more extreme (CamelPhat might be the ultimate thing for this, I'm using the free version and love it when it comes to distorting analogueish sounds).

Hmm, what more... ohh, the sound of course. I cannot comment on the level of authenticity before I get to run it alongside the real machine, but as far as the VST emulations go, this one sounds the nicest to my ears - I've thrown in piles of classic 303 riffs from all the tracks I can and care to remember, and so far everything has sounded as it should

If anyone wants to hear short examples of how it sounds in use, I can arrange some webspace for myself to put some clips online, so let me know and I'll do that Otherwise I'll be spending quality time with the headphones on, tweaking the knobs of an emulator doing a sound that nobody cares for and that has been done to death

Meanwhile... let's at least try to keep this thread nice. ABL and Audiorealism deserve it, being a newcomer on the market. And Mike especially deserves it, being a nice person who's just released a good product.

JMH

why not put out a standalone demo version like the first lush303 but with the new code that way all those crack guys can do what they will but people will still buy the vsti version for the automation and stuff you can only do in a vsti host.. and a standalone version will show what its capable of but a 303 emu will need automation of the filter knob so the people trying out the standalone will most likly convert to the vsti anyway.

Quote:

so the people trying out the standalone will most likly convert to the vsti anyway.

I dont think so. Lots of people (ie me) bought a real 303, and didnt need automation. Its a part of the fun-real time tweaking.

easymode wrote:

Quote: so the people trying out the standalone will most likly convert to the vsti anyway. I dont think so. Lots of people (ie me) bought a real 303, and didnt need automation. Its a part of the fun-real time tweaking.

yes I agree thats why I am making my 303 a devilfish asap.. but theres no fun in recording all your tweaks on a software standalone synth and having all those wavs...I loved the original lush303 but it was awkward recording each tweak of the bassline you know.

kryos wrote:

bmoronic: train your fucking eyes; I said some of the samples, I also said I put them together in a track. Of course there is a difference if you a/b them, although some are so close, them average ears would never notice. No difference in a track means that nobody listening to the track would suddenly look at the speakers and say: "what happened to the bassline... that's not a real 303!" Also the spectrum analisys of the solo'd track changed so subtly that I was amazed. I though for sure there would be more change in some of the harmonics. don't take my word for it though. try it. use example 3 for instance.

Umm.. let's not start calling names now eh? Just like You, I tried to be somewhat ,
but apparently that wasn't clear enough. I just responded to that ".. hardware purists.." line.
And I still disagree.. NONE of the samples were the same so I still think you might want to take a better listen (got it now?).

dr.wackler wrote:

Thought that's obvious: It's cynical to spend 100+ € for going out partying a night, and then consider oneself a 'poor' student. Maybe when mummy and daddy stop supporting you and after you have been travelling a bit more, you'll understand the cynicism in your words.

Hmm, I have no idea what kind of student life you've had/have/will-have-in-the-future-when-you-grow-up, but
I like going out with my friends every once in a while. I don't spend 100$ every night but maybe 3 to 6 times per year depending on my financial situation. I still am poor compared to somebody with a regular income but I'm not bitchin' n whining about prices of plugins am I?

One thing that I did not consider and I appologise for that: I didn't consider the fact that the value of 100$ is very different in some countries so if you live in a country that has much lower average income than EU then you are allowed to be offended. However if you live in EU, USA, bitch on this list about prices of plugins that are VERY WORTH the price (ABL is a fuckn bargain considering what it does and how well it does it).

Kriminal wrote:

Whoo, sounds like a wild party

Well, I those evenings that I spend 100$ going out, half the cost is from good food, but that still leaves 50$ for drinks, tickets etc.. so yeah, I do end up pretty drunk, that's pretty normal here in Finland, to get drunk that is

Quote:

Its monophonic synth for christ sake.....

Umm.. I'm not sure a polyphonic TB-303 would sound any better than a monophonic one as the main thing is the sequencer and you can open as many instances as your host allows, atleast I would guess that's the case.

Initializing Behaviours wrote:

Please calm down. Why do you want people have to shut up about the price?

You're right, I should calm down but I am passionate about good sound and it annoyed me reading how the thread begun. ABL just sounds too good to allow people to call it way too pricey. I don't know why I have this urge inside me to defend good sounding products but now that I think about it this is the very reason I study music technology because I have strong feeling that quality makes a difference and that striving for it is a key to sonic nirvana.. damn that came out silly

Quote:

Why is it whining when they think it's too expensive? May they judge for themselves? May they put things in their own and not your perspective?

With that same argument: "Why can't you let me (bManic) be me?".

Am I now not allowed to critisize people's judgement? I assure you that I know the difference between a plain, well written statement/argument and a "whining" post and there has been plenty of "whining" going on in these forums about prices of things. If that's a persons hobby to whine then by all means carry on but I am most definately allowed to whine about that too, right?

I'm not the one that started calling names and being rude (neither have you btw, I'm just saying it here).
So, any of you who felt offended, please re-read the thread and if I still sounded rude to you then sorry about that.. Sometimes I feel like people get ticked off much too easily (ahem.. I know atleast one )

__mike wrote:

bmanic: I investigated the "bouncyness" it and it goes this: I recorded the ABL from the soundcard output using VST host. This killed some of the dynamics. So heres a new comparison, where I rendered the output from Logic Audio 5.3 instead:

Downloading new clips now! Btw. one of the things that usually comes up when A/B comparing an analogue synth vs. digital recreation is the lack of noise. The noise at the analogue outputs actually make a huge difference to the sound, that is, usually in a good way (yes, you read that right). Any experienced synth programmer knows that adding a little white noise to a lead/bass/pad patch usually thickens up the patch and gives it a sense of 'body'. In a mix this added noise works even better as it helps glueing the tracks together.
Most review's of digital recreations say at some point "..without the noise.." and make it sound like that's good. When it comes to VSTi synths the noise could maybe add a dimension of realism, especially if it is "modelled", that is, reacts to the dynamics of the output, is complex (not just white noise). Any comments, ideas? All this is just based on extremely focused reduced (read: analytical) listening.

I hope I didn't tick you off in this thread. I think ABL is extremely close to the real TB but I still think I could find it in a blind test when soloed (not a chance in a crowded mix!). Could you make it for me!!?? a real blind test.. just post some clips and don't tell us which is which!

Cheers folks!
bManic

Ps. sorry for the extremely long post but I wanted to answer everybody in one go.

bmanic wrote:

kryos wrote: bmoronic: train your fucking eyes; I said some of the samples, I also said I put them together in a track. Of course there is a difference if you a/b them, although some are so close, them average ears would never notice. No difference in a track means that nobody listening to the track would suddenly look at the speakers and say: "what happened to the bassline... that's not a real 303!" Also the spectrum analisys of the solo'd track changed so subtly that I was amazed. I though for sure there would be more change in some of the harmonics. don't take my word for it though. try it. use example 3 for instance. Umm.. let's not start calling names now eh? Just like You, I tried to be somewhat , but apparently that wasn't clear enough. I just responded to that ".. hardware purists.." line. And I still disagree.. NONE of the samples were the same so I still think you might want to take a better listen (got it now?). dr.wackler wrote: Thought that's obvious: It's cynical to spend 100+ € for going out partying a night, and then consider oneself a 'poor' student. Maybe when mummy and daddy stop supporting you and after you have been travelling a bit more, you'll understand the cynicism in your words. Hmm, I have no idea what kind of student life you've had/have/will-have-in-the-future-when-you-grow-up, but I like going out with my friends every once in a while. I don't spend 100$ every night but maybe 3 to 6 times per year depending on my financial situation. I still am poor compared to somebody with a regular income but I'm not bitchin' n whining about prices of plugins am I? One thing that I did not consider and I appologise for that: I didn't consider the fact that the value of 100$ is very different in some countries so if you live in a country that has much lower average income than EU then you are allowed to be offended. However if you live in EU, USA, bitch on this list about prices of plugins that are VERY WORTH the price (ABL is a fuckn bargain considering what it does and how well it does it). Kriminal wrote: Whoo, sounds like a wild party Well, I those evenings that I spend 100$ going out, half the cost is from good food, but that still leaves 50$ for drinks, tickets etc.. so yeah, I do end up pretty drunk, that's pretty normal here in Finland, to get drunk that is Quote: Its monophonic synth for christ sake..... Umm.. I'm not sure a polyphonic TB-303 would sound any better than a monophonic one as the main thing is the sequencer and you can open as many instances as your host allows, atleast I would guess that's the case. Initializing Behaviours wrote: Please calm down. Why do you want people have to shut up about the price? You're right, I should calm down but I am passionate about good sound and it annoyed me reading how the thread begun. ABL just sounds too good to allow people to call it way too pricey. I don't know why I have this urge inside me to defend good sounding products but now that I think about it this is the very reason I study music technology because I have strong feeling that quality makes a difference and that striving for it is a key to sonic nirvana.. damn that came out silly Quote: Why is it whining when they think it's too expensive? May they judge for themselves? May they put things in their own and not your perspective? With that same argument: "Why can't you let me (bManic) be me?". Am I now not allowed to critisize people's judgement? I assure you that I know the difference between a plain, well written statement/argument and a "whining" post and there has been plenty of "whining" going on in these forums about prices of things. If that's a persons hobby to whine then by all means carry on but I am most definately allowed to whine about that too, right? I'm not the one that started calling names and being rude (neither have you btw, I'm just saying it here). So, any of you who felt offended, please re-read the thread and if I still sounded rude to you then sorry about that.. Sometimes I feel like people get ticked off much too easily (ahem.. I know atleast one ) __mike wrote: bmanic: I investigated the "bouncyness" it and it goes this: I recorded the ABL from the soundcard output using VST host. This killed some of the dynamics. So heres a new comparison, where I rendered the output from Logic Audio 5.3 instead: Downloading new clips now! Btw. one of the things that usually comes up when A/B comparing an analogue synth vs. digital recreation is the lack of noise. The noise at the analogue outputs actually make a huge difference to the sound, that is, usually in a good way (yes, you read that right). Any experienced synth programmer knows that adding a little white noise to a lead/bass/pad patch usually thickens up the patch and gives it a sense of 'body'. In a mix this added noise works even better as it helps glueing the tracks together. Most review's of digital recreations say at some point "..without the noise.." and make it sound like that's good. When it comes to VSTi synths the noise could maybe add a dimension of realism, especially if it is "modelled", that is, reacts to the dynamics of the output, is complex (not just white noise). Any comments, ideas? All this is just based on extremely focused reduced (read: analytical) listening. I hope I didn't tick you off in this thread. I think ABL is extremely close to the real TB but I still think I could find it in a blind test when soloed (not a chance in a crowded mix!). Could you make it for me!!?? a real blind test.. just post some clips and don't tell us which is which! Cheers folks! bManic Ps. sorry for the extremely long post but I wanted to answer everybody in one go.

Good god....that is probably the longest post in kvr history. It may even top that post from Squids. Remember that one?

I haven't even read it to be honest. I was just surprised that this 303 debate was still doing the circuit.

I suppose I must have finally found my perfect 303 emulation (ABL in case you are wondering...yes I have it and yes it is wonderful)

You'll see....soon their will be no more 303 debates. The search is over. I can finally rest What will I do now that I no longer have to spend hours trying to emulate a 303 with Vaz? Maybe I'll go outside one day. I hear the air is cleaner out there

303s make me wanna poop.

crazy finnish people

bmanic wrote:

Hmm, I have no idea what kind of student life you've had/have/will-have-in-the-future-when-you-grow-up, but...

I had about 400 € for rent, books, food and spare time activities.
Wouldn't be possible really to live on that in G7 countries nowadays admittedly, but still even today spending 100 € for one night of going out would be the big exception and is quite decadent.

bmanic wrote:

Btw. one of the things that usually comes up when A/B comparing an analogue synth vs. digital recreation is the lack of noise. The noise at the analogue outputs actually make a huge difference to the sound, that is, usually in a good way (yes, you read that right). Any experienced synth programmer knows that adding a little white noise to a lead/bass/pad patch usually thickens up the patch and gives it a sense of 'body'. In a mix this added noise works even better as it helps glueing the tracks together. Most review's of digital recreations say at some point "..without the noise.." and make it sound like that's good. When it comes to VSTi synths the noise could maybe add a dimension of realism, especially if it is "modelled", that is, reacts to the dynamics of the output, is complex (not just white noise).

You are a wise man and study the right subject.
That's not irony, I mean it!

Quote:

crazy finnish people

Excellent post bManic. I agree with just about everything you said there.

Refreshing to see someone with an intelligent, level head around these parts...!

Hmmm.
I have pretty good ears, actually. Maybe I just have some kind of mental block when it comes to this. ???
But when I randomly played back soem of these things, even in a/b comparisons, I could not tell which one was which. I mean, yes there are some differences in the tweaks, that much is clear and obvious, but I don't know how you manage to know which one is the real TB, and which is the AR-B!!

blind test.
dont take this too seriously, it is more for curiosity than anything else. And if you go compare them to the named sampels on AR's site, then there is no point... so don't post your opinion if that is how you arive at it, or you are spoiling it.

http://members.shaw.ca/kryos1/main/TB_test1.wav

http://members.shaw.ca/kryos1/main/TB_test2.wav

again, this is for fun and info only. I don't want to start some kind of fight, so if you are offended by blind tests then please skip this post. Cheerz.
K1

Quote:

Has anyone actually purchased this synth yet and can comment on performance, usability, etc? All I've read so far are opinions based on the mp3/wav demos, I would love to hear some feedback from users who went that extra step and purchased it.

I have a copy and I'm currently working on a 'Vitual 303 Shootout' article for TraxMusic.org

It would be unfair to the other instruments in the review for me to let too many details out of the bag right now, however in the interest of the discussion in this thread, I can fairly say that the performance, usability, stability and functionality of ABL are as good as one would hope or expect. In a couple of days of testing, I haven't had a single stability problem, including running multiple instances, and the CPU usage is very light. I will be spending time next weekend with a real 303, so I will not comment on ABL's accuracy at the moment, however the sound is fantastic and I'm very happy with this plugin so far.

I hope this helps anyone who is interested in ABL at the moment - if you are still on the fence about virtual 303 plugins, please look for my article to appear at Trax - should be there in a little over a week (I will be spending much of the next week away on business), when you'll see a very in-depth discussion of all sorts of aspects concerning a handful of 303-style VSTi plugins. (Yes I know, I am probably taking my life into my own hands by tackling this thorny subject!)

Best wishes,
LG

Hi guys!
I noted there was some interest in a blind test.

http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/blind1.mp3
http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/blind2.mp3

Take your guess!

Best Regards
Mike Janney

Uhm, is there anything that remains to be said? I don't think so.

This is it.

Ronny

@ BManic, Sorry I'm at work, so I can't read your whole post now. But ofcourse you to are entiteled on your own opinion.. Just like others are

But after hearing the audisamples from users on audiorealism.se I decided to buy the bloody thing yesterday!

It just arrived in my mailbox.. I will upload some audiosamples when I get home and am up and running with ABL.. I can't wait!

kryos wrote:

blind test. dont take this too seriously, it is more for curiosity than anything else. And if you go compare them to the named sampels on AR's site, then there is no point... so don't post your opinion if that is how you arive at it, or you are spoiling it. http://members.shaw.ca/kryos1/main/TB_test1.wav http://members.shaw.ca/kryos1/main/TB_test2.wav again, this is for fun and info only. I don't want to start some kind of fight, so if you are offended by blind tests then please skip this post. Cheerz. K1

very close indeed... i thought it was the first one.

(meaning, the real 303 is the first one and the VSTi is the second)

eh?

__mike wrote:

Hi guys! I noted there was some interest in a blind test. http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/blind1.mp3 http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/blind2.mp3 Take your guess! Best Regards Mike Janney

They both sound very noisey, and neither sound any better than Tau2 or Monobass. #2 sounds the worst, but thats just cos of the sudden tweak.

I think the filter`s pretty spot on on the ABL.

Here`s a quick demo I did sweeping it:

www.sunscape.karoo.net/filterwhore.mp3

Probably the best 95 euros I`ve spent...

Tau2??

In my opinion Tau2 is no competition, and doesnt sound half as good as ABL.

jinx wrote:

In my opinion...

which is what it all boils down to, personal taste and opinion.

each to there own

but off course u do realise... that both them blind samples are actual 303's at the start, apart from "blind2" which is ABL at the end of the sampl.

kryos wrote:

blind test. dont take this too seriously, it is more for curiosity than anything else. And if you go compare them to the named sampels on AR's site, then there is no point... so don't post your opinion if that is how you arive at it, or you are spoiling it. http://members.shaw.ca/kryos1/main/TB_test1.wav http://members.shaw.ca/kryos1/main/TB_test2.wav again, this is for fun and info only. I don't want to start some kind of fight, so if you are offended by blind tests then please skip this post. Cheerz. K1

Cool! I love these tests.. unfortunately, I've heard the clips before so my memory is fooling/helping me!! Hmm, it's even harder now heheh.. anyways, clip 1 sounds better to me but maybe because it's louder.
My guess is that Clip 1 is ABL and Clip 2 is the real TB. The high resonance gives it away and also the amount of bass in the tone. ABL sounds deeper but less "round" in the lows, atleast thats how it seems here .

Cheers!
bManic

Ps. so what's the verdict!?? *prays that he ain't wrong*

jinx wrote:

but off course u do realise... that both them blind samples are actual 303's at the start, apart from "blind2" which is ABL at the end of the sampl.

Kriminal wrote:

They both sound very noisey, and neither sound any better than Tau2 or Monobass. #2 sounds the worst, but thats just cos of the sudden tweak.

As i have said before, i am not interest in a dull 303 emulation, im interested in acid sounds. I can get them with just about any emu and fx. A 303 on its own is a very dull sound.

And yes, i have got experience with a hard303

was just pointing it out

but tau2 (again imo) does not sound as good as abl, and definately not as good as the actual 303

__mike wrote:

Hi guys! I noted there was some interest in a blind test. http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/blind1.mp3 http://www.audiorealism.se/demos/blind2.mp3 Take your guess! Best Regards Mike Janney

Cool! Another blind test! hehe.. this one is extremely difficult so I'm just going to guess
and say which one I like the sound of more.

blind1.mp3 is the one I like more and I also think that might be the real TB-303

blind2.mp3 is a little louder and has longer decay of the filter envelope.. dunno, at first, this made me think that it's the real TB-303 but after listening more closely I now have to guess it's the ABL because of the way it's slide sounds. It sounds to me like it's curve is a little more linear than blind1.mp3 which is more logaritmic. As I don't have a real TB-303 (actually I've never even used one in a mix, I've only tried a real TB once at a Roland service house while upgrading my Xp-50 BIOS).

Cheers!
bManic

am i missing something here???

the only difference in them samples is that "blind2" has a recreation of that pattern pasted to the end of it (00:05)

so how can u say they sound the same?

jinx wrote:

am i missing something here??? the only difference in them samples is that "blind2" has a recreation of that pattern pasted to the end of it (00:05) so how can u say they sound the same?

(EDIT 2 Jinx, I think you got it spot on .
I completely ignored the end of blind2.mp3 as it was longer and tried to compare the beginnings of the 2 clips which, I am now sure, are identical (slightly lower volume in clip 1). What a brain wash that was hehe! Cheers mate!

?? I'm ignoring the end of blind2.mp3 as it's longer.. The clips do sound different though, listen to the portamento/slide. (EDIT! blind1.mp3 seems to be identical but lower in volume.. damn)

(EDIT!!) Hmm, now that you say it though I'm starting to doubt myself.. argh. My brain is fooling my ears me thinks!

The end of blind2.mp3 does sound like it's different.. the slide to the high note and the high note itself is not the same as the high notes in the beginning.

Cheers!
bManic

I hope __mike ain't pulling our legs here by making 2xABL or 2x Real TB 303, now that would be nasty

Cheers!
bManic

trust me.. they are both same sample apart from last part of blind2 hehe, cos i uploaded it.

jinx wrote:

trust me.. they are both same sample apart from last part of blind2 hehe, cos i uploaded it.

Aaah now that's it! . I fell for the old "wow, this sounds much better" and realized the effect wasn't even on! . Actually I love it when it happens.
Brings me back to earth!

Thanks jinx! Now how about some more soloed blind tests?

Cheers!
bManic

Jinx you revealed the truth fast Yes it was a little tricky, I just wanted to demonstrate how easy it is to deceive ones' ears.

a good demonstration

I do agree, finding differences that arent actually ther, weird how the mind works sometimes.

I was about to confess to some poor judgement yesterday, regarding the blind test that I posted. I was going to say that I was sorry for decieving my friends here at KvR, even those that I ocassionally disagree with... I was further going to explain, apoligetically, but sincerely, that it was only my interest in showing the incredible accuracy of this emulation...
so I get online, and see that __mike has beaten me to it
My examples were very different, but each one was randomly cut between the ARB and TB 303. NO crossfading, just cut dead accross at random intervals.
Anyway, I have to go to work now. I will check back after work, to see who I have offended. What can I say, I am sorry. It really seemed like a good idea yesterday. Now I just feel guilty. I really thought I would be caught out right away...
kryos

jinx wrote:

a good demonstration I do agree, finding differences that arent actually ther, weird how the mind works sometimes.

Hmm, I got an idea for a P.H.D hehe.. "the psychosomatic 3rd order distortion a.k.a tube warmth that the brain adds if it ain't there"

Btw. was the volume a litt