|Author||Topic: Which keyboard?|
Posted: 4th November 2003 15:57
Hi there everybody! I have been saving up, and soon I'll have enough money to buy a really good keyboard. I've narrowed it down to the two that I think are the best:
Korg Triton Studio
and Access Virus KC
The triton is really appealing because of it's more "piano-like" features and sequencing features, but i know it has nothing on the access's amazing synth sounds. So, my first question is: Which one should I get?
And 2: How does ANY keyboard integrate into FL studio? I've never had ANY piece of external hardware before, just vst's and I have no idea how hardware integrates into FL 4.
If you can answer either of these questions, I'd be really greatful!
Posted: 4th November 2003 16:12
forget the external synth and look at one of these instead: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1252
Posted: 4th November 2003 16:27
That's a tough call, because they're so different, not really interchangeable. What I would do is buy the Triton (perhaps not the Studio in my case) and get a tabletop Virus - perhaps a used Virus B from EBay (runs about $800). There are also some impressive VSTI that, while not Virii (?) are quite respectable in their own right - z3ta+ and Albino come to mind, among others.
Earlier this year, I gave my Yamaha PSR-540 to a friend when I got a Nord Lead 2. I liked it, and thought it sounded good, but I missed the "realistic" sounds that I just couldn't get out of a VA, and at that time I didn't have anything like Sampletank, Hypersonic, etc. Once I bought z3ta+ I decided I'd rather have another Yamaha, and so EBayed the Nord. I later got a Yamaha PSR-2000 that I'm currently happy with.
Ironically, now I've given some thought to getting a small VA - if the Ion came in a smaller form factor (tabletop or 25-key unit like a K-Station) I'd jump on it. I've got several candidates in the under-$1K range (NL2X rack, K-Station and a couple of used or smaller ones)... or I may get a new laptop, since I've spent more on VSTI in 2003 than I did for the Nord.
A couple of things you'll want to do:
- In "Options", Enable MIDI remote control and Enable MIDI output.
- Connect the Triton MIDI OUT to your input MIDI interface, and the MIDI output interface to the Triton MIDI IN. Note that FLS will only use one MIDI IN at a time, so if you have a "knob box" or something like that, you'll need something like MIDIYOKE+MIDIOX to wrap them together as one device.
- In MIDI Settings, map the output to a "port number".
- You drive it with a MIDI Out generator. Set the port to match the port number assigned in MIDI settings.
- I believe you have to have FLStudio Producer Edition in order to record the output of the Triton - audio output to the audio input defined in Audio Settings.
Posted: 4th November 2003 16:44
Most important questions:
what do you want to do with it? The meat and potato sounds, or the more freaky stuff? (I know each one can do meat and potato and meat and potato is different in different styles of music... so please...)
which brings us to the next question: Do you program synth or do you mainly call up the presets?
What sound do you like more the Triton or the Virus?
I bought the XV-3080 (roughly, don't jump on me) comparable to the Triton and was really disappointed in the beginning as I wanted to tweak more. But now I find it really usefull for the jobs that don't offer much in time. I hardly ever use it for the more playful things though. But that's me!
<begin very personal>
If I was in your position (having the money and just deciding which way to go, I still can't tell what YOU would like to do with the machine) I would by the virus in a heartbeat! Not even think about it.
</end very personal>
This is not a recommendation, just some food for thought.
Posted: 4th November 2003 16:45
Wow, thanks! So it can integrate fairly well it looks like. I like the idea ( i do have producer edition by the way) of direct sound from the triton a lot. Is a yamaha worth getting over a korg?
Also, that is a tough call wonshu because I really need a good piano sound, but at the same time, the access demo mp3's sound AMAZING for trance music. I do trance, and while I have not yet gotten into MUCH synth tweaking, I really want to learn. I almost never use presets EXACTLY the way they are, I usually make simple adjustments to fine tune the sound. So, I like piano, and some realistic sounds, but i want powerful synth sounds as well.
Posted: 4th November 2003 16:54
That is a tough call then.
I just had to do a piano thing and even though I have a couple of really good sample libraries and the XVs Pianos aren't anything to sneeze at I start hating that artificial paino sound. I want the strings to resonate and interact with each other the metal and the wood.
Allright... I'm drifting, I need to sleep
Posted: 4th November 2003 17:02
I have a Triton LE and a virus B.... I really think you should look on ebay for something used and get both....Studio is nice with the weighted action particularly if you are doing piano type stuff.
Although the Virus is awesome , it won't give the versatility of a Triton. If you do many types of music, get the Triton if you can only afford one....but like I said, if you get used you may be able to pull off both!
Posted: 4th November 2003 17:11
Agreed, very well put!
I can't focuse anymore yet I can't leave...
Posted: 4th November 2003 17:24
The Yamaha PSR-2000 (now 2100) keyboard is not quite an analog to the Triton - look more at the Motif or Motif ES series for that. The Triton, PSR, and Motif are all sample-based keyboards, not VA.
I was choosing between a Triton LE and the PSR-2000. I picked the PSR-2000 because I like the internal speakers (over 95% of my playing is by myself or with small groups, so it's an easy set-up) and my familiarity with the earlier PSR models.
Two things I've noticed about the PSR is that it doesn't have an arpeggiator (I knew that up-front) and the keys are a little narrow to me - like 90-95% width, which gets me scrozzled up when I'm playing something with a lot of flats or sharps.
Just for another data point, the K-Station is also popular for trance. You can download the V-Station demo and see how you like it.
Posted: 4th November 2003 18:36
Have you tried a Kurzweil 2600
I tried everything I could get my hands on before buying my Kurz (2500). For me, it's the best. But at the end of the day, it's down to what suits you.
Posted: 5th November 2003 07:30
I am really torn... I like the more "normal" sounds that I can get from the triton, (guitar, piano, real basses, etc) and all the effects that make it a 'keyboard' but I know nothing will match the virus's incredible synth power. The demo on the website always has me drooling! I also like the idea of being able to configure the sounds, unlike the sample-based triton. Can both the virus kc, and the triton studio serve as midi controllers like the novation reMote can?
Posted: 5th November 2003 10:22
Amazing nobody has asked what kind of music you write. To me this is the key issue.
The virus is well and truely an electronic/dance machine. Don't expect to get any real world instruments from it, other than an organ or two.
You will have much more scope with the Triton, but of course it will not nearly match the Virus's 'electronic' arsenal.
Ask yourself this. What instruments are you needing? If the answer contains pianos, strings, guitar etc, then the Triton is the way to go. If the answer is bass, lead, pads etc, then choose the Virus.
EDIT: I just saw your post in which you say you write trance. In this case, you will not be disappointed with the Virus (I have one myself), but you may be disappointed with the triton.
Posted: 5th November 2003 10:39
There's also quite a difference in price between the two! The Korg costs 3.715€ over here. If you get the Virus at 2.400€ and some 'bread and butter' softsynth (Sampletank2 500€ or Hypersonic 400€), you'll still have some cash left!
|Moritz Morpheus MkIII|
Posted: 5th November 2003 10:53
go for the virus and realize the "meat&potatoes"-sounds with a softwaresampler..
Posted: 5th November 2003 11:05
If you have a PC, then Triton's sampling/sequencing capabilities are overkill. Perhaps the Triton or Motif rack would cover your meat & potatoes stuff. Leave the sampling/sequencing to your PC. Use the left over $$ to buy Kontakt and some sample libraries .
Posted: 5th November 2003 11:48
I would check out the Motif ES if you decide the Meat and potatoes route. I think they included the real time loop remix funtion from the popular RS-7000, which I think could work for trance and is very cool. The Motif sounds are a little more realistic than tritons.
Of course if you have limited funds and focus mainly trance, as stated previoisly your money will be better spent on a Virus and a soft-sampler for the rest.
Posted: 5th November 2003 12:18
I own a roland rs-5 and a virus KC.
I feel like the rs-5 is a good performance synth, since it has pianos, horns, etc etc.
the KC for the controller alone is killer. It is more for (and I am just saying this as a GENERAL statement) more for dance/trance/electro type sounds....but I have some patches that rule this statement out.
if it were me, I would get the KC for if nothing else the main controller reason alone, and get sonic synth for the triton sounds you are after.
I will NEVER SELL MY KC.....so you can tell, I love this thing.
sonic synth covers the other synth, as far as I am concerned.
Posted: 5th November 2003 14:21
If you have a computer and are using that as your main sequencer then why waste money on a full-on Triton Studio. You can get a Triton LE AND a used virus and that way you have both.
Look at the extra features on the Triton Studio (as opposed to the LE) and see whether you've got most of them covered or could cover them on the computer.
K2600, yes very nice, but perhaps overkill, no? Also, personally, I don't like putting all of my eggs in one basket. If you just have the one thing and it breaks, you're SOOL. (which is why I also don't like to depend 100% on the computer)
In the end, you have to get what speaks to you and what will work best for your music. But I think being forced to choose between the triton and a virus, you would be disappointed either way because they are pretty much mutually exclusive. That's why I say get an LE and get both maybe.
Finally this thought... with hardware it's the same as with vstis... it's nice to have a couple things from different manufacturers to get different sounds. Case in point... even looking at va's... Nord sounds different than Virus, which in turn sounds different from Novation. If you have just the one thing, I think that your songs tend to sound like demosongs for the piece you have.
Posted: 5th November 2003 14:30
I own both a Triton and a Virus C (and an XV5080, and a few others), and starting over, what I'd probably do is get the Virus C (tabletop/rackmount) and a controller keyboard. Why?
Well, when you're using a synth as both a sound-source and controller, it becomes a pain to have to mute the inputs of your synth on your mixer (or just turn down the volume) every time you want to solo a soft-synth part. If you buy the tabletop version of the Virus (the Virus C) and a controller keyboard, you can avoid this problem completely!
A few things to think about, though: The Virus is a multi-timbral synth, but it really sounds best in mono-timbral mode where the patch has its own delay/reverb and doesn't have to share it with the rest of the parts in the multi set-up. It's also difficult for someone new to synths to program a patch from the ground up (specifically in terms of effects routing). Bottom line: Sounds great right out of the box ... but useability suffers due to effects limitations.
The Triton is EASY to program. VERY easy. Especially for effects routing ... and there are 5 insert effects plus 2 master effects, freely configurable. In that sense, the Triton is a great synth (and I'm glad I bought one). But ... it was also $3,750 when I bought it (ProX), and that money could go a LOT farther these days (a new PC with a bevy of capable softsynths, for instance.) Bottom line: Sounds okay right out of the box ... great useability, but it'll cost you. A lot.
Okay, so now that THAT is out of the way, I'll go back to the beginning and reiterate my suggestion:
Get a Virus C and a MIDI controller keyboard. It's probably a cheaper option (or only SLIGHTLY more than a Virus KC), and your expansion options are much better. Plus, software is the WAY to go these days for meat-'n'-potatoes sounds. Softsynths make EXCELLENT filler in trance productions, where the Virus is the hook MONSTER. You can play "Mary Had A Little Lamb" with a fat Virus patch and it'll sound like a trance anthem. I'm not even kidding! With a Virus, a copy of FL Studio and a few choice softsynths (and some requisite talent), you'll be a trance machine.
The Triton pianos are TERRIBLE. If you want piano sounds, don't go to the Triton. The best pianos I've heard in a hardware "workstation"-style synth are the Motif pianos. Those are great. The XV5080 pianos are also terrible. They're just not playable at all.
And that's it!
Good luck, and happy music making!
Posted: 5th November 2003 15:51
You really SHOULD try out a Kurzweil..!
You'll have everything there in one keyboard.
Posted: 5th November 2003 19:08
You might want to look at the Roland RS-70:
I think the piano sounds pretty good. I don't know how it compares to a Kurzweil PC2, however.
Posted: 5th November 2003 20:06
I wouldnt ever tell anyone not to by a Virus...they are just that good...not just the sound but the overall ability of this synth....
However, a Triton is an awesome synth for trance/dance/hiphop/R and B....drums are punchy and clean (probably the best collection of modern drum sounds from any manufacturer, software or hardware), some great leads and pads. Great arp x 2 also.
I spent 8 months making a decision Triton vs. Motif. Motif is a great board but for what you are doing the Triton is your synth.
Check ebay....I bet you can get a Triton LE 76 key version and a Virus B for the less than you can purchase the Triton Studio new. As others said, you can fill the rest of your needs with software.
Posted: 5th November 2003 22:06
Hmm.... When put it that way... The virus seems better. Does anyone know if the virus can integrate well with FL studio 4 or not? That is important, as I don't know how I could integrate the sounds with my vsts' otherwise. If you are curious to hear some of my music to see my "style" check out my website:
Posted: 6th November 2003 09:56
I use solely fl studio, so yes it can be used with studio.
my kc has both the midi in's and out's going to the sound card in there right places.
then you select in the mixer dropdown on a fx channel, the audio input you want....so mine is analog in.
sooo, (and this is a SIMPLE overview post only) you now have the midi side of the kc for vsts and the actual audio right along side of the vsts.
I haven't recorded a full track with my kc (been to busy trying to update the OS and other stuff) but the audio matches very well with say atmosphere, albino, or trilogy
Posted: 6th November 2003 15:26
Listened to some of your tunes.....get both. They will intigrate perfectly in your music and you won't regret it. Studio might be overkill though...same soundset for the most part through the whole Triton range so I dont think you would lose much by getting an LE or a used rack version.
Posted: 6th November 2003 15:59
If you use Fl Studio, why get a keyboard workstation with yet another sequencer? I would just use Fl Studio and buy a good keyboard controller and spend the extra money on vst's, more Ram, hard drive... Anyway, that's what I would do...
A triton is cool if you don't use a computer to make music. If you already use a computer, why get a workstation? Do you plan on travelling with it maybe?
It's extremely easy to set up a keyboard to control Fl Studio and to assign functions to sliders and knobs on the keyboard.
Posted: 6th November 2003 16:23
This is why I got one....it allows me play even when I'm away!
Posted: 8th November 2003 00:44
Ok... I think I have ruled out the idea of getting a meat and potatoes keyboard, since those are common to find. I will soon be going to college, and I know that the college has those already, but no synth monsters like the virus for sure. However, I'm wondering what the difference in sound will be from the k-station (reMote audio extreme) to the virus c. I presume quite a big jump, but i'm not really sure?