Phantom is a eight voices, four operators PM/FM synthesizer. It is able to import Yamaha DX100/DX27/DX21 SysEx data.

PDF specifications | Windows Demo (930 K)

It is already available to order for 150 €. Registered Vertigo and Discovery users will have a discount for this product.

Thanks,
George

Hola,

Just a question, is this a "remake" of the old arguru's AAS Phantom? I loved that one, specially the randomize function...

Sahul

Good to see FM up and running again with so many good products coming out

You can get some 4 op sysex patches from my DX7 page:

http://tamw.atari-users.net/dx7.htm

As far as 4 Op, I still use an FB01, TX81Z, and a TQ5. Great stuff, but happy to see this release.

love the gui...

sounds a touch pricey...

downloading the demo now

first impressions of the demo:
like the gui, in fact like all disco gui's.

don't much care for the presets. I'm afraid they don't show off the synth very much. Alot of old-school 'emulate-an-instrument-with-fm-even-if-it-sounds-shite' type sounds. Not my cup o tea personally. I did dig a castlevania preset though

cpu usage is, unsuprisingly, very high. especially in comparison with the 6-op FM7.

It does good job emulating the old FM synths but the high CPU consumption and 150$ price tag don't make you jump in joy.. I'm a bit disappointed too since I hoped better presets showing the power of FM as I remembered it.. mmm, maybe it's just that FM synths always kinda sounded like crap, you just had to make the best out of it.

I think I'll have to pass this one, even though that discount for discovery owners sounds tempting (how much is it, btw?)

George R. Reales wrote:

It is able to import Yamaha DX100/DX27/DX21 SysEx data.

..and TX81Z

sounds good to me, im likin it here

I am interested in the comparsion of phantom and fm7,
especially the cpu utilization...
I listened to demosong of the fm7. It was very impressing. What about the presets of fm7 in comparsion to phantom

Greetinhs

sd

first impressions are not too favourable...

this is only going by the presets..

and the cpu usage is high...60% of a p4 2.4 for 8 voices...it's a sound quality vs cpu usage ratio that I'm not happy with..hopefully this will be optimized further...

it also lacks discovery's excellent patch browsing system...why??

the included sounds are not the right way to show of this synth imo..but that's as far as i've gotten at this point

jtstatic wrote:

I think I'll have to pass this one, even though that discount for discovery owners sounds tempting (how much is it, btw?)

If you buy Discovery or Vertigo, you will be able to add Phantom to your cart with a 60% discount.

We are working in a mailing list for our previous customers so they can access this promotion as well.

SDevice wrote:

I am interested in the comparsion of phantom and fm7, especially the cpu utilization... I listened to demosong of the fm7. It was very impressing. What about the presets of fm7 in comparsion to phantom Greetinhs sd

the fm7 presets are much more adventurous than phantom. Many ambient, pads, and hybrid sounds.

Maybe phantom is capable of these too? I'm not sure.

maybe my maths is failing

but a 60% discount off the cost of phantom (90 e discount)if you buy vertigo (80e) means that if you buy 2 synths its cheaper than one !

More synth manufacturers should show this level of generosity

PS if i get all 3 is it cheaper still ???

FM7 is the standard which others are judged by (partly the presets)... But! I will say that after using FM7 for over a year now, it is somewhat weak in it's overall output, and is crushed by a lot of other VST synths in a mix... I've found it hard to get enough oomph out of it... Nice for strings and pads though...

hmm, I own discovery so I think I'll have to consider the discount offer..

I also own FM7 and while it doesn't have as good sound quality (consumes much much less CPU as well) the sounds that come with it are much better. I doubt those sounds could be easily reproduced in phantom: mainly because FM7 has more complex envelopes, that allow creating pulsating rhythms, but it also has more operators than phantom.. Anyway one thing I like in phantom is that the UI is very user friendly.

I hope you get the CPU consumption down with your plugins.. I understand good sound quality is priority for us but some kind of quality switch would be cool.. one can always render the song in higher quality later on.

In my opinion this is a unique FM synth. I've coaxed some very wild sounds out of it, although I agree that the default bank has an awful lot of those FM instrument emulations in it.

What I really like about Phantom is the excellent sound quality (becoming a hallmark of the DiscoDSP brand), and the ease of use its UI and approach to FM brings to the programmer. In fact I find that this synth makes FM a lot easier to work with and understand than some of the other FM synths available.

What I think sets it apart from a lot of the other FM synths out there are first of all the morph functionality, which is quite unique (if you aren't familiar with DiscoDSP's morph implementation on Discovery, hold CTRL while turning a knob to set that knob's morph value), and the ability to set each individual operator to work in PM or FM mode.

I have to be honest and say that I've been using this for some time now as part of the beta team, so of course my opinions might be colored a bit, but only from my experience with the instrument itself, not with any specific bias in mind. I'm having an awful lot of fun with Phantom!

Cheers,
LG

Wow, I must say the sound quality is top notch for what this is. It just sounds so 'smooth', esp the bells!

Little disappointed to see the CPU usage so high, usually at minimum 3 times more CPU, of not 4-6 times more than FM7.

Looking through your presets, looks like you actually didn't do ANY presets, except for a couple. These are all the standard presets from the DX keyboards.

I'm also interested to know since I don't own a DX21/27/100, which one is closer to sounding like the real synth? I load in the same sysex dumps from the DX21 and 27, and they sound completely different between FM7 and Phantom.

Were you planning on releasing more presets? The main reason I liked FM7 so much in the first place was the evolving pads.

Also, for someone who already owns FM7, is there even a reason to own Phantom at all?

Devon

DevonB wrote:

Were you planning on releasing more presets?

Yes, some talented betatesters are working on it.

DevonB wrote:

Also, for someone who already owns FM7, is there even a reason to own Phantom at all? Devon

i would guess no..doesn't the fm7 import the same stuff?? with lower cpu usage?? and much better factory presets? it's more expensive yes, but if you;ve already got it, why buy this one?

for someone who doesn't own either the price difference will make it tempting, ESPECIALLY with the huge discount discovery/vertigo customers are gonna get...that will make it like ~$72 USD!!

speaking of presets, that's what has turned me off vertigo also. i can;t help thinking an 80 euro synth should have more than 64 presets no matter what

Check that again ttoz, all the prices went up. They are now 100 for both Vertigo and Discovery.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

Check that again ttoz, all the prices went up. They are now 100 for both Vertigo and Discovery. Devon

geez, that must have JUST happened

oh well, no vertigo for me definitely now

Ya, that just jumped the price $25 US dollars for me. Been wishy-washy thinking about Discovery, and delayed too long. Guess I'll continue even longer being wishy washy.

Devon

would have been nice if they warned previous/good customers with a simple email "last chance to get these synths at this price"

i'm pissed off (i have their effects pack and discovery, and bought discovery at the original 100 euro price)

Phantom IS a bit different from your average FM synth, and it's mainly due to the morphing capability, as Laserguided pointed out.

True, the factory presets are just DX27 imports or whatever and THEY DON'T DO IT JUSTICE!

This is a synth that truly deserves to be played with to realise it's potential. Like Vertigo, it is capable of some really nice sounds.

A word to discoDSP - release another demo with some morphing presets

<disclaimer> I was a betatester, too </disclaimer>

For what it's worth, I am always very eager to support and encourage small developers, but I have to say that in my opinion FM7 sounds much better and the CPU usage is far better.

But then, this is version 1.

Yeah, I was looking at getting Discovery and/or Vertigo last night (I downloaded all the demos) but now with the price jump I have to rethink, since I don't really need them. It's not that they're not worth the new price, they're just not quite as tempting...

FWIW pough, I really like all of DiscoDSP's stuff, and of course I have a soft spot for Phantom as I was one of the beta participants...

however I feel that I should say that Vertigo is incredible. Many of my VSTi purchases, although in the long run I'm glad to have, immediately leave me concerned if I really should have bought the thing or not. With Vertigo, I haven't once had that impression. It's a unique and incredible masterpiece in my opinion, and the sound quality (and sounds themselves) that comes out of this thing is stunning. I can't think of anything at all that's like Vertigo, totally unique instrument.

My advice would be to buy it before they raise the price even more

I'll second that.

Although I was not too fond of the new FM synth, Vertigo is a seriosuly nice piece of work. Sounds GREAT.....

[quote="scuzzphut"]Phantom IS a bit different from your average FM synth, and it's mainly due to the morphing capability, as Laserguided pointed out.
quote]

Is this true or do you mean Vertigo, cant find any info about Phantom being able to morph, though with a name like that it should

Creepjoint -

Vertigo of course has morph between the two operator states, but BOTH Discovery and Phantom have knob-setting morphing. Hold CTRL down and twist a knob. It's main indicator will stay put, but you will see a 'ghosted' indicator that moves, allowing you to set the morph setting on the knob.

Grab a discovery or phantom demo and try it out.

Cheers,
LG

CreepJoint wrote:

Is this true or do you mean Vertigo, cant find any info about Phantom being able to morph, though with a name like that it should

Manual, section 3. Morphing

Hehe, yeah sorry. Havent even tried it yet and Ive already ordered it. €60 is an impulse buy for me and after Vertigo Id trust Arguru with my naked girlfriend

that says a lot about your girlfriend

bashed a few branches on the ugly tree as she fell to earth ??

CreepJoint wrote:

Hehe, yeah sorry. Havent even tried it yet and Ive already ordered it. €60 is an impulse buy for me and after Vertigo Id trust Arguru with my naked girlfriend

I want a naked girlfriend! (grown tired of constantly clothed wife)

Kriminal wrote:

George R. Reales wrote: It is able to import Yamaha DX100/DX27/DX21 SysEx data. ..and TX81Z

How would it do that? I can't see where you'd select the additional waveforms of the TX81Z. Are they hidden?

jzero wrote:

CreepJoint wrote: Hehe, yeah sorry. Havent even tried it yet and Ive already ordered it. €60 is an impulse buy for me and after Vertigo Id trust Arguru with my naked girlfriend I want a naked girlfriend! (grown tired of constantly clothed wife)

George, your shopping cart doesn't seem to be able to calculate the discount properly. The total price is higher than 60%. Also, the way the deal is worded, it sounds a bit like we're supposed to get 60% OFF the total. Is that correct?

Worked fine for me, I got charged €60

Uncle E wrote:

George, your shopping cart doesn't seem to be able to calculate the discount properly. The total price is higher than 60%. Also, the way the deal is worded, it sounds a bit like we're supposed to get 60% OFF the total. Is that correct?

If you add Vertigo or Discovery to your cart:

Share*It! Online Shop wrote:

Receive a discount of up to 60% on the following products: We recommend the following interesting and useful products which complement the product in your shopping cart. Simply check the box next to the product name to add this product to your shopping list. discoDSP Phantom - EUR 150.00 - Discount: 60% - EUR 60.00

The promotion will finish 15th December 2003.

CreepJoint wrote:

Worked fine for me, I got charged €60

what for the 2?

vurt wrote:

CreepJoint wrote: Worked fine for me, I got charged €60 what for the 2?

Haha, nah I have Vertigo already and so only pay €60 for Phantom. Didnt realise the problem was related to buying 2 synths at once. Sorry

Let me count...

Phantom uses 50% playing 4 voices on my P4 2ghz

So how much is the price of half a P4 2 ghz ?
Add to that the $60 for the VSTi...

Bad deal I'd say, for a low cost DX synth that
only people bought who could not affort a DX7.

NI Fm7 emulates and imports the same sysex
as the Phantom does but only uses 8% for 4 voices
of my PC, sure the price of the Fm7 is higher...
But is it really ?

Cheers

P.S. Not to mention that the Fm7 takes the DX to
new hights that a real DX or Phantom can never reach.

for sake of completeness, the last version of rhino also includes a beta DX7 sysex import function. there are a currently a few minor glitches with envelopes that cause some clicking on attack or release, but that can be solved for now with some editing.

i thought the point of phantom however was as a 4 operator fm synth and import of the yamaha 4 operator synths

rhino is regarded by some as eating a lot of cpu, so some sort of comparison would be nice, but I can't imagine why a 4 operator fm synth emulating a 'real' instrument (not a complex, animated, evolving pad) would take 50% of a 2 gHz P-4 for 4 voices

Quote:

Phantom uses 50% playing 4 voices on my P4 2ghz

I measured 40% playing 8 voices in the P4 2'4 Ghz I have. Phantom it's using trigonometrics to calculate sinuoids and pitch calculation instead interpolated tables. Besides this, in Phantom , any parameter change (morphing, modulation, or user tweak) is RC ramped, a 1st order basic lowpass to smooth every parameter changes. [except multi-fx unit parameters]. Also all lfos and envelopes are computed within 1 sample resolution.

Of course I agree FM7 is way complex synthesizer than Phantom.

Our proposal is provide a high-quality and easy-to-program FM/PM synthesizer, not a DX or FM7 clone. In my opinion I feel Phantom really easy and comfortable to program than any DX or FM7, and other FM synthesizers available, specially avoiding those annoying operator pages.

Regards,

Arguru / discoDSP.

FWIW Phantom is the only FM synth I've been able to program and understand what the hell I'm doing

i took a look at the screen shot and it does seem well laid out.
those little graphic representations of the carrier/modulator relationships should be a big help. the DX7 had those -- why some fm synths went straight to the mod matrix without a graphic hint as to what was going on, I don't understand -- screen real estate concerns I suppose.

Hydra has the choice of three configurations/three ocs and it's a good learning tool if nothing else.

The bigest breakthrough I had with fm programming was that the most importatnt thing for any give timbre was the frequency of the modulator as applied to the carrier. Took years for that concept to sink in. Still working at it.

I'll download the demo tonight. Always interested in any interface that simplifies a complex set of conditions. Plus I want to check out for myself the quality of the sound. In my book it's hard to beat these rich modern fm sounds -- much improved over the metallic ringing of the original hardware.