You guys are going on and on how just so much better the Virus is. That's all great and wonderful. How about some audio examples, 'eh? I'm not a fan of z3ta+ myself, but I know the patches are starting to improve these days with the updates and from banks from Kire. I'd like to hear how much better this Virus is?

So how about some people put their money where their mouth is and post some demos. Heck, let's do some 'blind' demos here and post a tune without saying what you used. I'd honestly liky to hear 'em myself.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

I'd honestly liky to hear 'em myself. Devon

You already have Dev. It's all over every trance tune like a cheap suit.

I think it's hard to say, because it just depends on taste, as usual...

Most people say that blabla1 is better than blabla2. But what they're actually meaning is: "I like blabla1 more than blabla2".

Durk wrote:

I think it's hard to say, because it just depends on taste, as usual...

Of course it's taste, but I get tired of the bragging and none of the showing. Show me the money. Certainly not an unreasonable request, do you think?

Devon

here are some real virus patches from vengeance music's/sounds site. http://www.vengeance-music.de/Virus2/Filez/www.vengeance-sound.de%20-% 20Trance%20Source%20X%20-%20Virus%20b%20Soundset%20by%20Manuel%20Schle is.mp3

http://www.vengeance-music.de/Virus2/Filez/www.vengeance-sound.de%20-% 20Incubation%20-%20Virus%20c%20Soundset%20by%20Manuel%20Schleis.mp3


I have some really killer patches for my virus, I can post some fake/real examples.

Sounds like a plan, but Im unsure how conclusive it will be. I mean, at top programmer might have the skills to make anything sound good (and vica versa)? I think the only way this could work is if the same artist produces that same track twice, once with either synth (and I doubt very much anyone could be arsed to do that).

Never the less, Im happy to post some stuff. How do I do it?

DevonB wrote:

Of course it's taste, but I get tired of the bragging and none of the showing. Show me the money. Certainly not an unreasonable request, do you think?

No it's not that unreasonable, but I'm afraid that it's hard to get such a thread a little bit objective.

But I'm a pretty optimistic person, so let's go! I'm curious about the show-offs!

www.vengeance-sound.de then to sounds

some reason it is only having some of the sounds

tee boy wrote:

Sounds like a plan, but Im unsure how conclusive it will be. I mean, at top programmer might have the skills to make anything sound good (and vica versa)? I think the only way this could work is if the same artist produces that same track twice, once with either synth (and I doubt very much anyone could be arsed to do that). Never the less, Im happy to post some stuff. How do I do it?

I'm sure there are a few people who'd be happy to host your song on their web server if you don't have any space yourself.

Also, of course there is no 'definitive', but it still be nice to hear and so we can judge for ourselves. I mean it's like arguing your girl is prettier when you don't even have a picture and just tell me she's a girl.

Devon

Durk wrote:

DevonB wrote: Of course it's taste, but I get tired of the bragging and none of the showing. Show me the money. Certainly not an unreasonable request, do you think? No it's not that unreasonable, but I'm afraid that it's hard to get such a thread a little bit objective. But I'm a pretty optimistic person, so let's go! I'm curious about the show-offs!

About as objective as one football team is better than another football team, just because you like 'em and don't like the other one. Doesn't stop people from arguing, does it?

Devon

Mighty_Hero wrote:

www.vengeance-sound.de then to sounds some reason it is only having some of the sounds

That's some nice, sweet stuff! They certainly like delay! Smooth as butter filters too. Now if I knew where Kire's demo samples of the trance bank to compare. Some back to back comparisons for those who own both the Virus and Z3ta+ would be best.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

About as objective as one football team is better than another football team, just because you like 'em and don't like the other one. Doesn't stop people from arguing, does it?

Agreed!

Let's go, where are the patch examples?? Can't wait to argue too!

I have a little bit web space left, so if anyone need to put they're song somewhere, call me!

hehe I see your point! But in all fairness, I have no desire to prove my opinions to anyone. If I thought a bird was hot and my mate didnt, it wouldnt change my mind in the slightest. Im happy to state my own personal preference, but Im definately an 'each to their own' kind of guy too. I dont worship my Virus or any of my gear, I just think its better than z3ta. As synths go, Im loving Absynth at the moment more than anything. And Im also itching to lay my hands on Kyma!

But if you want to hear some of my work, I'll try to get it hosted somewhere. Im really not up on this whole internet hosting biz so if anyone can recommend somewhere, that would be great.

I'll whip something up for you ...

RGC Audio z3ta+ vs. Access Virus C!

Round one ... FIGHT!

(stu.macQ)

If you want to know what sounds the VIRUS is capable of beside the usual trance shit have a look at

http://home.online.no/~per-kr/

then go to studio/VIRUS/Audiosamples and listen
carefully. Try to get those sounds out of the za3ta+!

interferenz

the filters on the virus are also a huge selling point (for me anyways) no zippering means the world to me! and now we got some moog filters too

tee boy wrote:

hehe I see your point! But in all fairness, I have no desire to prove my opinions to anyone. If I thought a bird was hot and my mate didnt, it wouldnt change my mind in the slightest. Im happy to state my own personal preference, but Im definately an 'each to their own' kind of guy too. I dont worship my Virus or any of my gear, I just think its better than z3ta. As synths go, Im loving Absynth at the moment more than anything. And Im also itching to lay my hands on Kyma!

See, at least with z3ta+, I can download a picture of that 'bird', but have little to work off of with Virus. Sure, it could be slathered all over trance tune like a cheap suit, but I'd like to know that 'lead line' is this synth, and 'bass line' is this synth, etc. for SURE. What I've heard that Mighty posted, I'm pretty damn impressed, as these trance sounds are the sounds I like personally, myself. If people are bitching about z3ta's filters not being so hot, a nice back to back example of moving the cutoff would be sweet!

Devon

the drunken man patch is still one of my favorites.
I play with it and the neoworld patch alot.

interferenz wrote:

If you want to know what sounds the VIRUS is capable of beside the usual trance shit have a look at http://home.online.no/~per-kr/ then go to studio/VIRUS/Audiosamples and listen carefully. Try to get those sounds out of the za3ta+! interferenz

Sweet! That jarrepad example wouldn't perchance be from Oxygene would it?

Devon

stu.macQ wrote:

I'll whip something up for you ... RGC Audio z3ta+ vs. Access Virus C! Round one ... FIGHT! (stu.macQ)

Woohoo! Stu the man, up for the challenge!

Devon

Not a blind date man then Dev? No, me neither! I'd never buy anything with out using it for a couple of weeks first. My mate from uni had a Virus B, and I was constantly swapping him with my Q. Iv come to love both synths.

Like I have said, there are sounds you just can't make with software (where it is currently at).
virus's filters are to damn sweet to even describe.
I am glad you liked the stuff devon. I have some patches that are better than those links.


really, someone make with z3ta that drunken man patch

tee boy wrote:

Not a blind date man then Dev? No, me neither! I'd never buy anything with out using it for a couple of weeks first. My mate from uni had a Virus B, and I was constantly swapping him with my Q. Iv come to love both synths.

The Waldorf Q sounded pretty sweet from the few demos I heard of it years ago too.

And I wouldn't say that about blind dates either. If I followed that, I wouldn't be married.

Devon

Mighty_Hero wrote:

Like I have said, there are sounds you just can't make with software (where it is currently at). virus's filters are to damn sweet to even describe. I am glad you liked the stuff devon. I have some patches that are better than those links. really, someone make with z3ta that drunken man patch

Heard the filters on this thing, bro? Mmmmmmm... tasty...

http://www.adern.com/products/flexor/sounds.htm

Devon

not bad demo's they got.
(I am assuming you own this?) do the filters zipper at ALL?

Mighty_Hero wrote:

not bad demo's they got. (I am assuming you own this?) do the filters zipper at ALL?

Been REAAAAALLY debating that one. Afraid I'll get it, and realize my 6 DSP's won't cut it. Then that $90 buy turns into a several hundred dollar buy to REALLY get it to sing.. and... you followin'?

But DAMN that thing just sounds soooo sweet and smooth.... Not bad for 'software' 'eh?

Devon

I sadly follow you
it read pretty good, I don't like having to own certain cards though. Hell, I got enough stuff to last me forever, especially from beta'ing

Mighty_Hero wrote:

I sadly follow you it read pretty good, I don't like having to own certain cards though. Hell, I got enough stuff to last me forever, especially from beta'ing

But when you already own the card, it's a nice addition. Not to mention, the routing on a Pulsar is just AWESOME. So damn flexible. Anyway...

Devon

true.

I wished you lived closer man. ok, so......
who's the first to post a "real or fake" example?
(I'm at work, or I would be on this already)

I like z3ta+ and my Virus. I wouldn't swap either. I don't think one is better than the other they both have their strenghts. But I'd definitely not say that the Virus is redundant as a synth because it's hardware and not a plugin.

Z3ta+ demo:

http://home.zonnet.nl/jvweeren/demo_zeta.wav

Using the upcoming HQ virus mod I'm
helping Francesco with;-)

Greetings CCpurno

Hi ...

I just spat out 10 Virus examples, and now I'm onto the z3ta+ examples. Tricky to do it with the demo, but I'm a digital editing fiend anyway. Keep in mind that I'm running patches from these synths without external/additional processing, and the only tweaks I'm making (in real time) are to the filters.

Sure, here I am posting the disclaimer BEFORE the actual demos, but ... hey at least you know I'm working on them. Tonight ... the main event ... in the squared circle ...

(stu.macQ)

see this is what im talking about!!

another versus thread... oi!

Hello,

How cool, another versus thread

I wonder... if we're going to write down all things z3ta+ can't do that the Virus can...

... shouldn't we state also all things z3ta+ CAN do that Virus CAN'T?



Cheers,
René

René wrote:

I wonder... if we're going to write down all things z3ta+ can't do that the Virus can... ... shouldn't we state also all things z3ta+ CAN do that Virus CAN'T?

Hey ... you should be happy! z3ta+ sounds great (especially with these new patches)! It certainly holds its own against the almighty Virus. And that's coming from me, someone who spent $2,000 on a Virus and hasn't yet bought your synth. Tomorrow, for sure! It sounds amazing (and unbeatable for the price)!

Love it.

Okay ... for all you trainspotters out there ... here's a 17-clip MP3:

http://www.climax-music.com/Z3taVsVirus.mp3

9 clips are of the Virus. 8 clips are of z3ta+. Which is which?

Good luck!!

(stu.macQ)

1.Zeta 2.Virus 3.zeta 4.zeta 5.virus 6.zeta 7.virus 8.virus 9.zeta 10.zeta 11.virus 12.zeta 13.virus 14.virus 15.zeta 16.virus 17.virus

my picks

Ooo some hard ones there....

the patches you used didnt really show of half of what the virus is capable of and u didnt use the filters much, but you have to keep it down to zetas level to make it fair i guess ;p

I think..

zeta/zeta/virus/zeta/virus/virus/zeta/virus/zeta/virus/virus/zeta/viru s/virus/zeta/virus/zeta.

quite hard on some of them i must say

english

René wrote:

... shouldn't we state also all things z3ta+ CAN do that Virus CAN'T? Cheers, René

One thing z3ta+ can do that Virus can't is make it into my music! Seriously, the Virus is cool and all, but if you told me I could only have one or the other, I'd take z3ta+ every time.

(of course, if you told me I could have both, then I would thank you and buy you a drink!)

until then...

"Hobbitses can keep nasssty Virusessss, Give Smeagol lovely z3ta Plussesess!"

thanks for posting all the samples
i always wondered waht the fuss was all about.

as much as I've tried I've never really managed to raise much enthusiasm for the z3ta -- a little too thick/congested for me.

but these samples I like very much. looking forward to some z3ta samples.

Scot Solida wrote:

"Hobbitses can keep nasssty Virusessss, Give Smeagol lovely z3ta Plussesess!"

They better not hurt/kill-off Smeagol in the last film or im going to be mad!! <-- like that!

....And nine zetas were gifted to the race of men who ,above all else, desire quality at a low price.

But they were all of them decieved, for another synth was made. In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Virus, The dark lord Access forged in secret a master synth to sound better than all others.

...and into this synth he poured 32 note polyphony, 4 oscillators, 2 filters, 3 LFOs, an expanded mod matrix with 6 source and 9 destination slots, and 98 effects.

One by one the vst companies of middle earth fell to the power of the virus. But there were some who resisted. A last alliance of Software Programmers and Sound Engineers fought for the freedom of virtual earth.

On the slopes of mount KVR, they fought as to which synth is better.

Victory was near..., but the power of the virus could not be undone.

It was at this moment when all hope had faded. that Rene, creator of the zeta, updated the vst to version 1.3 with hermode tuning technology.

The Virus, the enemy of the rgcaudio vst was defeated.


wohoo dec 17th !


But there some software programmers who resisted.

VitaminD wrote:

Scot Solida wrote: "Hobbitses can keep nasssty Virusessss, Give Smeagol lovely z3ta Plussesess!" They better not hurt/kill-off Smeagol in the last film or im going to be mad!! <-- like that!

Out of curiosity... have you read the trilogy? If not, I am hopeful that noone here would be so insensitive as to reveal plot spoiling information regarding The Return of the King.

VitaminD wrote:

Scot Solida wrote: "Hobbitses can keep nasssty Virusessss, Give Smeagol lovely z3ta Plussesess!" They better not hurt/kill-off Smeagol in the last film or im going to be mad!! <-- like that!

Well, you DO know what happens, yessss?!

trancenrg69: Great parody (yes, I am a Tolkien FANATIC. Have been reading it at least annualy for over a quarter of a century. Even gotta first edition)

I'm quite excited about the 3rd installment in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, myself!

I'm taking my little brother to it for his birthday, which is the 21st.

I am pre-buying tickets for the best seats on the "Balcony" at this theater we have here called the Arena Grand.
The seats are like oversized 1st class airplane seats and the sounds system is unrivaled in Columbus!

Oh yeah, baby!

stu.macQ wrote:

René wrote: I wonder... if we're going to write down all things z3ta+ can't do that the Virus can... ... shouldn't we state also all things z3ta+ CAN do that Virus CAN'T? Hey ... you should be happy! z3ta+ sounds great (especially with these new patches)! It certainly holds its own against the almighty Virus. And that's coming from me, someone who spent $2,000 on a Virus and hasn't yet bought your synth. Tomorrow, for sure! It sounds amazing (and unbeatable for the price)! Love it. Okay ... for all you trainspotters out there ... here's a 17-clip MP3: http://www.climax-music.com/Z3taVsVirus.mp3 9 clips are of the Virus. 8 clips are of z3ta+. Which is which? Good luck!! (stu.macQ)

1) Thank you for making a fair test.
2) Thanks for doing lots of filter work.

My guesses as follows

1 Virus
2 Zeta
3 Virus
4 Zeta
5 Virus
6 Virus
7 Zeta
8 Zeta
9 Zeta
10 Zeta
11 Virus
12 Virus
13 Zeta
14 zeta
15 Virus
16 Virus
17 Virus

These are my first guesses without even 'editing' my list, just a listen, and type. Now, let's see how far off in the weeds I am.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

Now, let's see how far off in the weeds I am. Devon

Man, you gotta lay off that weed, or you'll NEVER be able to tell them apart!

edit: dont read bluey's comments below - appear to be spoilers for the movie

-----------------------------------

Tronam wrote:

Out of curiosity... have you read the trilogy? If not, I am hopeful that noone here would be so insensitive as to reveal plot spoiling information regarding The Return of the King.

Nope.. I just recently saw the first two movies..

I'm considering actually going to a theatre to see the last one.. which is pretty much unheard of for me..

Not the GREATEST movies, but in terms of having an extremely enjoyable audio-visual experience they are hard to beat...

Yeah once the ring is destroyed, Smeogal transforms back to his original form again and he looks like a smaller hobbit.

Its too bad Frodo had to destroy the ring with himself, by jumping into the pool of fire with shelob.

And it was pretty dumb that Gandalf became corrupted by the ring at the end and had to be killed by aragorn.

nuff said before I spoil it all.

B.

I am really interested in the virus... Can you please post which was which for the 17-clip thing? Also, what equipment did you use to record your sounds? The virus sounded perfect (no buzz, like people were saying would be added by the wires) please tell me all equipment you have to make the virus work, as well as the costs? I have fl studio right now, and that's it!

Hi ...

I'm going to wait until tomorrow before I post the "answers" to the Virus/z3ta+ shoot-out, to give the other trainspotters (if there are any) the chance to figure it out.

As for recording, it's pretty basic: I run the Virus stereo-outputs into a line-mixer, and I run the outputs of the line-mixer into the inputs on an RME Hammerfall, recording into Cubase. That's about all there is to it!

(stu.macQ)

aeros. I use solely fl studio and my virus (soft synths also) to record. What exactly are you wanting to know? might be best to PM me on this, so we don't take away from the thread.

All the epic, creamy sounds are the Virus.

yes creamy, and or ugly fits virus like an glove.

english wrote:

the patches you used didnt really show of half of what the virus is capable of and u didnt use the filters much, but you have to keep it down to zetas level to make it fair i guess ;p

Highlights from a recent thread

Quote:

Side by side my Virus B sounds far better than the Z3ta+.

Quote:

You know I really like the z3ta+, but when I play with the filters on my Virus, there's just no comparison to me.

Quote:

I and several other's have done some test's.... When the Virus fx are off and the Z3ta's fx are off the Virus is miles ahead, softsynths are so one dimensional and in your face, but the virus has depth and is not so harsh in the mid range but still cuts through the mix!!

Quote:

I think z3ta licks balls compared to a Virus or many other hardware synths. Only today, I compared z3ta to my Q and was amazed but the difference. Z3ta sounded cold and cheap in comparison.

Quote:

Z3ta is a decent synth, no doubt about that, but it aint up to being compared to synths like Virus and Q.

Quote:

I personally see z3ta as being way off the quality of the better h/w va's,

This test should be a piece of piss for you boys.

Boys?
Where've you gone?

Spitting up the fire?

Take this for example: www.midi-mockup.com/metaflux.mp3

any questions left? not really, right?

Wow sounds great! Virus or z3ta+?

It seems to me that in this comparisson the only sounds everybody is thinking of are trance presets. Be honest, every softsynth is capable of the typical trance sounds, you don't need a VIRUS for this. What about other sounds? Perhaps some organs or descent electric piano presets? What about the whole range of moog sounds ? Or PPG-Like sounds?.


interferenz

z3ta+ is not a virus, it never claimed to be or compared itself to it, it is what it is and rene should be given credit for offering such a brilliant piece of software at such a GREAT Price!
I believe rgc has been on the cutting edge of software development since the early days, how many of us downloaded Triangle and still use it or Pentagon, talk about filters those suckers kick ass.
I love the filters in the virus, they are sweet and edgy or both,nothing compares to it, same with a Waldorf filter.
If I could afford one I would but $2000 isn't in the picture, but $149 for z3ta..yeah baby.
It all comes down to preference, a Yamaha filter or a Roland filter, or Korg..etc.
I understand why people love the virus and I understand why people love z3ta, they are both awesome.
Many thanks to stu.macQ for his hard work, I don't think it will change anyone's mind but it was still an interesting exercise.

VitaminD wrote:

edit: dont read bluey's comments below - appear to be spoilers for the movie

Dude! The spoiler came out in the 50 years ago!!

Devon

seamonkey wrote:

I understand why people love the virus and I understand why people love z3ta, they are both awesome. Many thanks to stu.macQ for his hard work, I don't think it will change anyone's mind but it was still an interesting exercise.

Looks like it changed Stu's mind about buying it, and it's steered me away from a Virus and more towards z3ta, so I wouldn't count on it.

Devon

you don't think anyone who's paid $2000 for a virus is actually going to say the $150 z3ta sounds just as well good, do you?
as far as the trance sound of the virus, well, isn't that all anyone uses it for? if anyone uses it different, point me to it, please, I'm interested.

Devon, I'm sorry but I don't think the taste comparison test would be a deciding factor one way or the other for either of you.
You strike me as a person who does tons of research before parting with your hard-earned money as well as figuring in other factors such as the type of music you are doing and how x instrument will contribute to achieving the sound in the mix.Right?

bluedad wrote:

you don't think anyone who's paid $2000 for a virus is actually going to say the $150 z3ta sounds just as well good, do you? as far as the trance sound of the virus, well, isn't that all anyone uses it for? if anyone uses it different, point me to it, please, I'm interested.

You should subscribe to the ampfea.org Access list if you're genuinely interested. I've been a member for years now, and have yet to see a single trance track posted there. Mostly drum & bass, some house, some synthpop, stuff like that.

edit: actually, now that I think of it, one guy did post a clip or two of psy trance, but psy isn't really what the Virus is known for. I'm assuming by trance you mean generic oakenfold stadium trance.

seamonkey wrote:

Devon, I'm sorry but I don't think the taste comparison test would be a deciding factor one way or the other for either of you. You strike me as a person who does tons of research before parting with your hard-earned money as well as figuring in other factors such as the type of music you are doing and how x instrument will contribute to achieving the sound in the mix.Right?

Actually, yes, it's now the sounds that are selling me, as that's been the only thing that's stopped me from getting it in the first place. The routing and flexibility of this synth is incredible, and I recognized that right up front, without even listening to it. But when I first hear its presets back in Febrary this year, I wasn't all that impressed. So I've waited and watched over time, and downloading the latest demo, and listening to these examples, I'm MUCH more closer to being sold.

I'm a notorious preset whore, I'm the first to admit that. My main requirements for a synth? Sounds that INSPIRE me to write. Inspiration is much more important than 128 oscillators, 200 LFO's, with 512 ways to route the sound, etc etc etc. Even if I have a synth that produces something similiar, if the sounds make me want to write, that can be worth the price of admition alone. But I do push for mass variety, as I write in a LOT of different styles, moreso than your average guy/gal. I tend to focus that variety with something that achieves the job well in at least one area, than spreading everything too thin, or just focuses on one thing, and does that well. For example, FM7 does FM VERY well, and I own it. Reaktor does SOME things very well, and it's those things that attracted me to it, and still attracts me to it. My Korg NS5r has a lot of sounds, but to me, only did the synthetic evolving pads well, so hence I got that too.

Make sense?

Devon

Durk wrote:

I think it's hard to say, because it just depends on taste, as usual... Most people say that blabla1 is better than blabla2. But what they're actually meaning is: "I like blabla1 more than blabla2".

Yep, exactly !

All preference.

bluedad wrote:

you don't think anyone who's paid $2000 for a virus is actually going to say the $150 z3ta sounds just as well good, do you?

A little (true) story :

Before submitting my soundbank for Z3ta+, I played the sounds side by side with my Virus B to my girlfriend. She liked the sounds for Z3ta+ better than those on my Virus!
She found the (same) sounds on Z3ta+ 'warmer' and 'fuller'.
Well, that's coming from someone who has no idea about the price difference between the two!

Peter.

So, that mp3 didn't end the discussion then? I recommend you listen to it, this discussion here is so pointless.

nuffink wrote:

Highlights from a recent thread Quote: Side by side my Virus B sounds far better than the Z3ta+. Quote: You know I really like the z3ta+, but when I play with the filters on my Virus, there's just no comparison to me. Quote: I and several other's have done some test's.... When the Virus fx are off and the Z3ta's fx are off the Virus is miles ahead, softsynths are so one dimensional and in your face, but the virus has depth and is not so harsh in the mid range but still cuts through the mix!! Quote: I think z3ta licks balls compared to a Virus or many other hardware synths. Only today, I compared z3ta to my Q and was amazed but the difference. Z3ta sounded cold and cheap in comparison. Quote: Z3ta is a decent synth, no doubt about that, but it aint up to being compared to synths like Virus and Q. Quote: I personally see z3ta as being way off the quality of the better h/w va's, This test should be a piece of piss for you boys. Boys? Where've you gone?

Nuffink,
Are you some kind of tit or something? Iv seen you post on this topic a multitude of times now and its all been nothing but sarcy bollocks. Why cant you accept that other people have different opinions to your own?

As for this test, I only just saw it, and I wont be taking it. Why? I probably would get it horribly wrong. But then, if you asked me to distinguish and vintage USA Strat from a Squire on a recording I probably wouldnt answer correctly. But if I played them both, there would ofcourse be no question. Instruments are a sum of their qualities, and to me the Virus is a better instrument - I get best sounds from it, quicker. And thats end of story for me fellas.

I have no idea which synth is which, but here's my list of which patches I thought were better or worse (as in better sounding, not that I like or would use the patch).

1.w 2.b 3.w 4.b 5.b 6.w 7.b 8.b 9.w 10.b 11.b 12.w 13.b 14.w 15.w 16.b 17.b

xRAVENx, am I suppose to know what synth was used in that mp3 you linked in this thread?

sluggo wrote:

xRAVENx, am I suppose to know what synth was used in that mp3 you linked in this thread?

If you own a virus, you should know.

xRAVENx wrote:

sluggo wrote: xRAVENx, am I suppose to know what synth was used in that mp3 you linked in this thread? If you own a virus, you should know.

Well, since it's so obvious, which is z3ta and which is Virus then?

Devon

Devon, he was talking about this mp3 here in his comment to me: www.midi-mockup.com/metaflux.mp3

xRAVENx wrote:

Devon, he was talking about this mp3 here in his comment to me: www.midi-mockup.com/metaflux.mp3

What about Stu's example? Which are which?

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31588&postdays=0&postorde r=asc&start=34

Devon

That file won't d/l for me (I keep getting a few bytes big file, emptying the cache and re-downloading results in the same few bytes mp3 file).

And the mp3 I posted is meant to end the quality discussion.

You have to left-click to download the file Raven, not right-click!

Peter.

xRAVENx wrote:

That file won't d/l for me (I keep getting a few bytes big file, emptying the cache and re-downloading results in the same few bytes mp3 file).

Hmm no problems here. I will put it on another web server.

xRAVENx wrote:

And the mp3 I posted is meant to end the quality discussion.

And why should it end the quality discussion?

xRAVENx wrote:

That file won't d/l for me (I keep getting a few bytes big file, emptying the cache and re-downloading results in the same few bytes mp3 file). And the mp3 I posted is meant to end the quality discussion.

You couldn't possibly be so naive as to assume that the "quality debate" will ever end. And it certainly wouldn't end with someone posting a single .MP3

-Tronam

Quote:

You couldn't possibly be so naive as to assume that the "quality debate" will ever end.

I say we nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

You guys are hopeless.
That mp3 was z3ta btw. And it very well can keep up with a virus in quality. HOWEVER, what some people here seem to fail to realize, its a different synth, no other synth, hardware or software, will sound like a virus (plugins rendered on music dsps made by access do not count, since they're the same thing as the hardware), nor will any hardware or software sound like z3ta does.
As for quality, I do believe theres been plenty of evidence that z3ta on it's own is an instrument worth to be called just that, exactly like the virus. Both have their own character, and are incredibly versatile.

Also, is this just me, or do some people have a virus fixation? Its a great synth, granted, but so are most other unique synths that don't attempt to emulate something else (some might, but thats not what they're being bought for, and if anyone wants the trademark virus sound, he GETS a friggin virus, not something else).

There are so many unique synthesizers around, that most people are missing out on, simply because they want everything to sound like synth XYZ, even though they even might what synth ABC does better for a particular purpose, but they've never heard it, and hell will never know.

So please, simply get the thing that makes the sound you are after, and don't get some emulation or wannabe. And equally futile are threads like this one. Its like comparing 2 cars with totally different attributes, one group favoring one car, the other group praise the other car. The smart man will have several cars, one for each day of the week, or one for each purpose.

my 22¢

Markus

Here are some soundexamples from my new Fat Analog-bank! (For the Z3ta+)

http://medlem.spray.se/synthzone/FatAnalog.mp3
(Copy the link and paste it in the adressfolder)

I hope it will show that the Z3ta+ is not only good at trance!

/Kire

For anyone who's interested, you can get a Virus XL Rack for around $1100 and a Virus C Rack for around $1400 at Audiomidi.com. I thought about ordering from there, but then I realized my credit card has a $1000 limit. Heh.

Hey, I thought this thread is about the SOUND of two great synthesizers... So why aren't there more sound snippets that show us what those machines are capable of? Stop all that talking, let's make music.

Yo, kire, I took some of your (absolutely high quality) z3ta+ sounds and created a little demo tune:

http://520074885278-0001.bei.t-online.de/psynus%20-%20it's%20a%20z3ta+ %20thing.mp3

and for the hifi freaks here is a 192 kbps version:

http://520074885278-0001.bei.t-online.de/psynus%20-%20it's%20a%20z3ta+ %20thing%20(192%20kbps).mp3

peace

xRAVENx wrote:

You guys are hopeless. That mp3 was z3ta btw. And it very well can keep up with a virus in quality. HOWEVER, what some people here seem to fail to realize, its a different synth, no other synth, hardware or software, will sound like a virus (plugins rendered on music dsps made by access do not count, since they're the same thing as the hardware), nor will any hardware or software sound like z3ta does. As for quality, I do believe theres been plenty of evidence that z3ta on it's own is an instrument worth to be called just that, exactly like the virus. Both have their own character, and are incredibly versatile. Also, is this just me, or do some people have a virus fixation? Its a great synth, granted, but so are most other unique synths that don't attempt to emulate something else (some might, but thats not what they're being bought for, and if anyone wants the trademark virus sound, he GETS a friggin virus, not something else). There are so many unique synthesizers around, that most people are missing out on, simply because they want everything to sound like synth XYZ, even though they even might what synth ABC does better for a particular purpose, but they've never heard it, and hell will never know. So please, simply get the thing that makes the sound you are after, and don't get some emulation or wannabe. And equally futile are threads like this one. Its like comparing 2 cars with totally different attributes, one group favoring one car, the other group praise the other car. The smart man will have several cars, one for each day of the week, or one for each purpose. my 22¢ Markus

I think this debate started awhile back because we kept getting these threads declaring that hardware is dead and that softsynths can emulate anything better than hardware.

It's so tiresome I agree and it smacks of umbrage that some people own expensive hardware synths and others don't. In a way it's the old, 'you don't have to own an expensive house to have class' shite.

Who cares who owns what? It's the music that counts and I agree with xRAVENx that you gotta get what you need to make your kind of music. Fuck everyone else and what they think is 'cool'.

Every synth has its uses and when it comes down to it what if you only use softsynths but don't own z3ta+? Does that mean a lifetime of exclusion from 'the club'? Thankfully I own both so I'm a fully paid up member but I still make mediocre music most of the time so who gives a toss what I shove into my PC.

:sits down and has a brandy:

DevonB wrote:

VitaminD wrote: edit: dont read bluey's comments below - appear to be spoilers for the movie Dude! The spoiler came out in the 50 years ago!! Devon

It may have.. but I never read any related books.. so I'd rather not know.. ok?

VitaminD wrote:

DevonB wrote: VitaminD wrote: edit: dont read bluey's comments below - appear to be spoilers for the movie Dude! The spoiler came out in the 50 years ago!! Devon It may have.. but I never read any related books.. so I'd rather not know.. ok?

Ok, that's fine.

Devon

munchkin wrote:

Who cares who owns what? It's the music that counts and I agree with xRAVENx that you gotta get what you need to make your kind of music. Fuck everyone else and what they think is 'cool'. Every synth has its uses and when it comes down to it what if you only use softsynths but don't own z3ta+? Does that mean a lifetime of exclusion from 'the club'? Thankfully I own both so I'm a fully paid up member but I still make mediocre music most of the time so who gives a toss what I shove into my PC. :sits down and has a brandy:

I was getting tired of the 'x soudns better than y' and 'No, y sounds better than x'. Ok, great, show me! Considering I never really heard the Virus before, this was a nice treat to hear it, and compare it too. No, z3ta and Virus aren't the same beast, but they're similiar. Not like I'm trying to compare Kontakt to FM7 to PPG here. It's apples to apples even if it's red delicious apples to green apples.

Anyway, this was cool and nice for someone to actually post back to back sound examples instead of just simple diarea of the mouth.

Devon

i thought this was a great idea. i'd never heard virus and really was curious to see what all this talk was about. now i understand why people are so fired up about it.

i think there's a certain element to how far one can stretch a capable instrument. z3ta is sounding a lot better than when it started and i think that's the sign of a compelling instrument with some staying power. i suspect with hardware there's a little less overall stretch, but more from the start. i suspect thi sis because there's simply a bigger team working on hardware with lots of ideas and methods kicking about. a software synth maker can live a lonely life of long hours and constantly bumping into their own habits of sound design and such. I could be wrong -- just an impression.

aside from that i'm firmly in the camp that cares most if the sounds inspire me to keep fooling at the keyboard long enough to get something I'd want someone else to listen to

xRAVENx wrote:

That file won't d/l for me (I keep getting a few bytes big file, emptying the cache and re-downloading results in the same few bytes mp3 file).

If that right-clicking didn't work, you can download the MP3 here too.

I see some of you guys try to make exact copies of Access virus presets with Z3ta. I'll be very pleased if you could put both the Virus and Z3ta preset samples up for download, so we could really compare those sounds.

Those vengeance sound patches are giving it away really

All comparisons aside, we should get them to do a patch bank for z3ta.

xRAVENx wrote:

Those vengeance sound patches are giving it away really All comparisons aside, we should get them to do a patch bank for z3ta.

How about a patch converter, is that possible?
Imagine: A program which converts Virus patches to Z3ta patches

gary, crystal method uses alot of virus's.
it's not just for trance

they're different animals, you can steer z3ta into a virus direction, because it allows a lot of stuff the virus lets you do (in terms of routings, filters etc.), and because you can load user wavetables into z3ta for oscillators, which lets you use the virus oscillators.
However, theres a load of things which aren't compatible between the two synths, hence you can't recreate patches to sound 100% the same (additionally to the envelope generators and lfos giving you different results on both synths).

There really is no point in trying to copy patches one way or another.
However, there is a point in simply doing patches for z3ta with as much effort as one would put into a virus patch. Z3ta can sound totally convincing qualitywise, and you can use X instances at the same time without additional cost or effort, and it saves data with projects, and you can save data to fxb/p comfortably, without midi dumps. That for me makes it a workhorse machine.


Markus

tee boy wrote:

As for this test, I only just saw it, and I wont be taking it. Why? I probably would get it horribly wrong. But then, if you asked me to distinguish and vintage USA Strat from a Squire on a recording I probably wouldnt answer correctly. But if I played them both, there would ofcourse be no question. Instruments are a sum of their qualities, and to me the Virus is a better instrument - I get best sounds from it, quicker. And thats end of story for me fellas.

That's a perfectly reasonable position.
It just doesn't square too well with your previous inflamatory trolling. If you can't take the flak, don't troll.

Wow ... I can't believe this thread has gone on so long!

For those of you who were guessing at which was the Virus and which was z3ta+, none of you got it entirely correct. Trancenrg69 was closest (as I'm sure he owns a Virus and is familiar with the Vengeance patches that I used), but even he got one wrong. Some things weren't fair to z3ta+ admittedly, as I used the Virus's beautiful arpeggiator on quite a few sounds. This is something that it DOES excel at compared to software. I've yet to hear it replicated as well.

Anyway, the point of it is: these synths are different, but z3ta+ can emulate the Virus better than any other software synth I've heard. It just sounds the part! Maybe the reverbs don't measure up completely, and its oscillators sound almost TOO "clean", but in the mix, its a mean synth! I convinced myself to buy z3ta+ with my own tests. Will I sell my Virus? Haha ... no. The more synths the better, right?

Here are the results:

1. z3ta+
2. Virus
3. z3ta+
4. z3ta+
5. Virus
6. z3ta+
7. Virus
8. Virus
9. z3ta+
10. z3ta+
11. Virus
12. Virus
13. z3ta+
14. Virus
15. z3ta+
16. Virus
17. Virus

8 z3ta+ clips, and 9 Virus clips. In the end, there are some patches that I like BETTER on z3ta+, and some where the Virus really does shine (those with arps, for instance). Still, write a riff on either and press it to vinyl ... and you've got a slushy high-end with both! Slurp!

This has been a fun excercise. Go and buy a copy of z3ta+ and let's put it to bed, okay?

Regards,

(stu.macQ)

Fella, wtf is trolling? I have no clue what this means, but if I was doing it I apologize. Nothing Iv posted on this forum is intended to be offensive or inflamatory in anyway. But at the same time, I wont simply agree with people to 'go with the flow'. Everything Iv posted on this topic are strictly my own personal opinions. Im not trying to convince anyone that I am right, but I feel on a thread comparing two instruments you should be free to express yourself fully.

Thank you, please!

Kire wrote:

Here are some soundexamples from my new Fat Analog-bank! (For the Z3ta+)

Stop teasing use

stu.macQ wrote:

This has been a fun excercise.

Yep it was, even for me, having none of both synths.

What about the patches you used in the demo? Will you make them available? SDome people might be interested...

stu.macQ wrote:

This has been a fun excercise. Go and buy a copy of z3ta+ and let's put it to bed, okay? Regards, (stu.macQ)

Yes it has, thanks for taking the time! Least now you found a new toy to play with! Kinda nice to know how wrong I was on half of those patches. More promise for z3ta+!

Devon

Quote:

Trancenrg69 was closest (as I'm sure he owns a Virus and is familiar with the Vengeance patches that I used), but even he got one wrong.

Actually I don't even own a single piece of hardware, let alone a Virus, although I have tried it out at the music shop, but not enough to get familiar with the sound. What does that tell you guys? That a guy who never used a Virus could tell which was which. The virus sounds thicker, warmer, creamier and overall better than the Zeta. But don't look at it that way. Comparing prices and the fact that Zeta doesn't have as many features or effects as the virus, it is still a remarkable synth and ten times cheaper at that. But that aside, It ridiculous to compare these synths. The virus is the greatest synth I've ever heard and I've heard most of them. Don't take my word for it, they also agree...

MIPA 2003 "Best hardware synthesizer"
· Future Music Platinum Award
· Future Music Editor's Choice
· Remix "Best hardwaresynth in 2002"
· Future Music reader's poll "Best hardware synth in 2000"
· Keys readers poll "Best hardware synth in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003"
· Future Music "Gear of the year 2002"
· Future music reader's poll "Synth worldcup 2002"
· Energy UK Reader's Poll 2003 "Best hardware synth for dance productions"

I have been producing trance for about 1 year. I started with ejay last year and I'm now using fruity. i just got my first tune signed too a huge Trance Label, and I used the zeta for my lead synth.

Let's talk, virus vst! lol i wish.

Quote:

Those vengeance sound patches are giving it away really All comparisons aside, we should get them to do a patch bank for z3ta.

I sent Manuel , the creator of those Virus patches, a message on his forum, and asked him if he would ever do a Zeta bank.

His response was:

"I hate the thing. It's a horror to operate. (especially the LFO).. One has way to much possibilities, but the most important is: it sounds like sheet metal, especially Pads metallic and hollow,analogue warmth and width = 0

At most the Speaker simulation in the EQ is suitable for 303 Sounds.. "


So i doubt you'll ever see a bank from him

Quote:

I hate the thing. It's a horror to operate. (especially the LFO).. One has way to much possibilities, but the most important is: it sounds like sheet metal, especially Pads metallic and hollow,analogue warmth and width = 0

Hmm, well, he does have a point. I can't really place what it is, but the z3ta+ does have a naturally "harsh" sound. Still, some of the guys here have managed to coax some lovely and useable sounds out of it, so ...

Maybe in a future version he'll take another look at it.

(stu.macQ)

Yeah, honestly I've said many times that I thought the Virus was the best synth ever created.

This thread at least made me take a second stab at using Z3ta+ and try to recreate some of the sounds I was hearing here. I got some pretty good results I think. I ran into a lot of useability issues when I tried it last. The OSC section is really great to work with, but the LFO's and Envelopes are kind of annoying IMO.

Not one of his brightest hours I'm afraid. Someone selling patches (even when they're not the most complicated ones to do), should know better than to comment on something he doesn't understand (see "too many possibilities").
Also what concerns harshness, clearly shows he only went through the presets (which are no dance presets, and which don't try to emulate some other synth). As evident in countless examples, and from the simple fact that the waveforms come in clean (digital, cold) as well as vintage flavors (warm, as far as you can give that attribute to an oscillator), completely customizable user osc waveforms, and a shaper which you can use to warm-up any osc you end up using, warm vs cold has nothing to do with the software at hand, and is only down to the patch (vstation for example doesn't use clean oscs, it uses sampled kstation oscs).
Same reason theres no point in claiming reaktor sounds cold. Simply because it allows you to do everything to achieve warmth that hardware manufacturers of dsp based synths use.

Don't get me wrong here, I like the vengeance sound patches, but everyone holding his patch programming expertise against another synth, would do good to check out his entire product range, and the music he makes. No I'm not even remotely saying its bad or poor. What I am saying, is that he does a very particular specialized style of music, which is also what he does patches for. The patches he does sound very much alike, the only difference being the hardware coloring them. They're all based around the same basic patches however (no they don't all sound the same, I'm saying they sound similar cross-synth).

I'm not dissing the guy here ("because he said something mean about my toy" or whatever you might be thinking), I am pointing out that he's no Rob Papen or Jean Michel Jarré or Vangelis.


Markus


edit: TheRain, the manual is your friend. What you might find annoying is that these LFOs have more settings than other gear's lfos do, and that the EGs have slope controls in addition to the ordinary ADSR knobs/sliders, as well as a bipolar amount control, which is missing from most other gear (no matter if bipolar or unipolar).
You might also be missing the key-tracking button/%age knob in the filter section. Well, you gotta use the modulation matrix to setup keytracking.
One might claim thats not user friendly. But the reason why its handled the way it is, you can set it up the way YOU want, you can have an EG which is modulated by an LFO control the filter's key tracking, should you desire to do so. You can modulate everything with nearly everything else.
Yes it does have a learning curve other synths do not have. But on the other hand, show me something capable of sound of that quality (z3ta's interpolation is right up there with any hardware synth you can think of).

i was listening until you said

Quote:

(vstation for example doesn't use clean oscs, it uses sampled kstation oscs).

err - the k-station is digital so its oscs are sampled soooooo.......

in a blind test to find the zeta patches i got it right more than 2/3 s of the time and someone else got all but one wrong - Im afriad that those who have a puritanical belief that z3ta can do the things the virus is good at have to start coming up with some better evidence

the patch you posted was very good and showed how big the possibilites are. Please dont thing im saying that zeta is not capable but i have never felt the need to buy it - talking of which zetas real competition for money is the waldorf micro q - which nearly as many oscillators,LFOs, envelopes ad mod routings ( some which zeta doesnt have) as zeta and only costs another $300 or so.


PS oscillator drift and randon detuning have a great deal do do with warmth - while zeta can do the second it cannot as far as i am aware do the first - the virus and the waldorf do both as well as velocity to atack curve and the like

ericj23 wrote:

err - the k-station is digital so its oscs are sampled soooooo.......

I was pointing out that pretty much no hardware synth uses the mathematical ideal of a waveform. Which would be the "clean" variant.

ericj23 wrote:

Im afriad that those who have a puritanical belief that z3ta can do the things the virus is good at have to start coming up with some better evidence

If you read up, you see I'm promoting exactly the opposite.

ericj23 wrote:

PS oscillator drift and randon detuning have a great deal do do with warmth - while zeta can do the second it cannot as far as i am aware do the first - the virus and the waldorf do both as well as velocity to atack curve and the like

What do you mean by osc drift? Their phase? Z3ta lets you move around each osc by 360 degrees, and you can invert the osc's waveform.
The phase correllation lets you change the "timbre" of a patch if you will. The warmth comes from good filters, which can self-oscillate and be saturated (see distortion unit, lets you saturate the filters). It also comes from carefully setup cutoff keytracking., so that the sound doesn't become dull or too bright on either end of the register/note range its meant to be used in.

Also, what really does help is to get rid of that "i listened up to xyz" attitude. No offense intended here mate, but sometimes its very helpful to not take one's paradigms for the ultimate and final truth. And theres no black and white anywhere either, that includes the "software synths can replace hardware synths" or "hardware is the only true thing" credos.

And even though I'm a damn virus freak myself, Ive also been reading those magazines for years. And if theres one thing I came to realize, they're just human like anyone else is, they have less time to spend on a particular piece of gear than most home users, and they're no synthesis gurus either (98% of the stuff they publish as their own patches or samples, is submitted to them by their readers).
So, always use your OWN common sense, and your OWN judgement, try everything for yourself. Don't let others chew your knowledge and information for you.
There generally is no point in following other people's beliefs, because there is noone who doesn't filter incoming information one way or the other.
There was/is no political view behind this btw, I'm bringing this up because I believe theres FAR too much "he's a pro, he's in the know" thinking going on, and a lot of decisions are based on this, which would be taken differently, had the person taken on the task of gathering up information him or herself personally.


my 3¢

Markus

oscialltor drift is that they go out of phase with each other randomly over time - ie it is nothing to do with the oscillators shape but to with it randomly
not looping perfectly. The end result is a less defined frequency spectrum but with more harmonics related to the oscialltors frequencies (ie the notes played) - ie fat - nothing to do with cutoff - lots to do with emulating analogue electronics

Look the virus was designed to fill a market position for the big "analogue" dance sound of the 90'2 - and it is widely held to do this very well. Z3ta is not designed for this but is a very capable synthesiser which can do that "analogue" sound -
but it is not its only purpose

But its hardware rival is the waldorf micro q - which is also not really an analogue emulator but something more open - and most importantly something increasingly cheap

now what im gonna say now is less diplomatic - frankly you say no offence intended but im afraid its taken - you have attributed attitudes to me that are clearly not expressed.

I did not state the software or hardware had anything to do with each other - I compard products but i certinaly did not say one was better than another

i always use my own judgement - at what point did i imply that i didnt - where did the dont listen to xyz thing come from ?????? - everythin expressed in my post was my opinion only. I will add I have demoed z3ta (twice) and it did not make me want to buy it - i have demoed a virus and they are too expensive

Frankly your post is some diatribe that suggests you should stop worrying about these things so much - if you like it use it - but this post is virus vs z3ta remember - and the generously provided test seems to suggest that nuffink etc have some humble pie to eat because a number of people can tell the synths apart

and you used paradigm for gods sake - get a life

Quote:

oscialltor drift is that they go out of phase with each other randomly over time - ie it is nothing to do with the oscillators shape but to with it randomly not looping perfectly. The end result is a less defined frequency spectrum but with more harmonics related to the oscialltors frequencies (ie the notes played) - ie fat - nothing to do with cutoff - lots to do with emulating analogue electronics

Thats what I was talking about in the paradigm paragraph. You didn't read what I wrote - again. I ask, "do you mean phase", you reply "no I mean phase". Oh and z3ta can do that fine, but again, to know that, you would have to try out z3ta, and if you don't understand it, a peek into the manual is medicine the doctor prescribed for that.
As for opinion building and mags, that part of my post was the reply to trancenrg69's posting further up, as I'm sure you realized when I suddenly started talking about magazines.

And you - again - tell me how the virus was made for one thing, and z3ta wasn't. And, yet again (like the numerous posts further up in this very thread, which I'm sure you all read), I have to reply, they're 2 different animals, anyone who wants one sound or another is advised to just GET the instrument that does that particular sound best.

What I was talking about is sound quality, and the ability to sound warm, which has zero to do with dance, or whatever the virus was designed for (re: your "the virus was made for ...." comment).

Now I don't know what your native language might be, or whether or not you're just too tired to read this thread carefully enough to understand what people actually are saying, or maybe you're simply not interested in doing so. Either way, your reply to my "vstation using kstation wavetables" statement, and your reply to my alleged "zeta owns virus" point of view (which strangely enough I haven't expressed anywhere), seems to me you're looking for a reason to troll, and that includes your "taking offense" from my advice to avoid the "i stopped reading at line 2" attitude (yet you replied to the whole thing, consequently interpreting something you THOUGHT i said in the rest of my post, but turns out I didn't actually?).

Seriously, please let off steam elsewhere, we're not responsible for the shitty experience of the day.
And I really don't care whether or not you buy z3ta, I didn't develop it, nor do I get anything out of anyone buying z3ta. So I don't mind anyone pointing out some other synth that is better at doing something particular than z3ta is. I posted initially to point out how idiotic a comparison of 2 different synths is. Comparing the hardware version of the indigo against the indigo TDM plugin, that would make sense. Comparing Vstation against the Kstation, that would make sense. Anything else is totally pointless.
And when you reply, if you reply, please do reply to what I said, not what you think I probably said, because of your current mood.


Markus

now your taking a superior atitude without reading my post - i DO NOT mean phase - I mean phased drift if thats easier for you to understand - the phase controls in zeta just alter position behind or ahead - they maintain the same phase loop length - im talking altering the phase length randomnly over time - as I stated in my last post

Im afriad i have to clarify a few notions about oscilator warmth - if what you suggest is all that it tak