Here are my two choices: ( i have fl studio 4 with audigy 2 soundcard now)

Access virus KC

or:

remote audio xtreme
Sonar 3 producer edition
Z3ta+
FM7
pro-53
grado sr-80 headphones

Is there anything i should also look at?
I considered getting an rme hammerfall hdsp 96/52 instead of the softsynths, but what would be best?

I'd go for the Virus.

If you prefer tactile response of a hardware synth, go for the virus. If you're more comfortable at a computer, go for the soft.

The soft stuff will give you more options for sounds, especially since z3ta+/FM7/Pro53 together will give you basically all the possibilities of a virus, and more.

Really the only reason to go with the virus is if you're a hardware kinda persons.

Aeros wrote:

Here are my two choices: ( i have fl studio 4 with audigy 2 soundcard now) Access virus KC or: remote audio xtreme Sonar 3 producer edition Z3ta+ FM7 pro-53 grado sr-80 headphones Is there anything i should also look at? I considered getting an rme hammerfall hdsp 96/52 instead of the softsynths, but what would be best?

Replace the Audigy with a real musician's soundcard

But having said that, according to the current http://www.novationmusic.com/nov_route/docs/front/front2.htm Novation is offering a free upgrade of a Remote Audio XTreme to a K-Station (all done in software)... so you'll have an audio interface and a decent synth all in one.

Sonar3 Pro, z3ta+ and the headphones sound good to me. I can't speak for the Pro-53 or FM-7 just because they're not to my taste.

Doug

I'll second dougsyo's comment about a soundcard
You didn't mention the other software you have.Have you thought about Pentagon instead of Pro-53?I have Pro-53 and like it;but for an analog replica that covers a lot of ground,Pentagon's hard to beat for the price.
It seems to me that there was a package deal on the Waldorf plugs as well-PPG 2.V and Attack for around $200.That wouldn't be a bad option,either
ew

get the kc , you won't regret it. greastest synth ever.

Quote:

I can't speak for the Pro-53 or FM-7 just because they're not to my taste.

???What??? Those are two of the most usable synths out there, especialy the FM7. If I could only have one synth that would be it, without a doubt!

How about those two synths cost more than my entire music software collection and neither of them do even the slightest thing for me? Seriously, there are freebies I prefer to Pro53 and when I played around with FM 7 none of the presets interested me at all. If I could only have one synth it would be Hydra.

As to the original question, if you want to make entire songs as opposed to just play an instrument then there is no question at all, unless I missed something and there's a newer version of Virus with a multi-timbral sound module, DSP effects and a sequencer/sampler. Even then your bang-for-bucks would be fairly limited.

seeing as the lovely man isnt puttin the cost of a computer in there we must assume he already has one - so in order to use the multitimbral virus with its 80 simultaneous effects he needs a midi connector. Not too much of a hardship

Still you would be rather limited in what you can do - but rememeber kiddies novation synths are cheap just now and the alesis ion is nice too - you could get one of them and sonar(not pro) and an audiophile and be happy.

OOO and bitchin about fm7 - i tried putting the demo fo that discodsp thing against fm7 on the same old yamaha patches - the discodsp one sounds miles better - clearer, punchier - juet better

what is a midi connector, and why do i need it?

I don't have an Audigy, but I think that if someone is making primarily softsynth based music, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Enough snobbery! Sure, for a bit more you can get into some of the M-Audio lower end cards, but that money would probably be better spent on another synth.

XanaX wrote:

I don't have an Audigy, but I think that if someone is making primarily softsynth based music, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Enough snobbery! Sure, for a bit more you can get into some of the M-Audio lower end cards, but that money would probably be better spent on another synth.

If you can call the fact that you're locked into a 48k sample rate with ASIO,lousy support and horrible drivers fine-then I guess you'd be right
ew

Aeros wrote:

what is a midi connector, and why do i need it?

MIDI is the Musical Instrument Digital Interface that allows synths, effects, etc to work together. It is very old now and quite slow [serial] but it still has legs. You can connect a hardware synth or controller to your soundcard using MIDI and use it to control your software synths.

Aeros wrote:

Here are my two choices: ( i have fl studio 4 with audigy 2 soundcard now) Access virus KC or: remote audio xtreme Sonar 3 producer edition Z3ta+ FM7 pro-53 grado sr-80 headphones Is there anything i should also look at?

yes.. get the synth then go for the "F" addon for it..

it will be upgraded into the 'KFC' model. When you turn on the synth, then press a key.. dinner is served.

Try an "A#" for extra tasty crispy and a "C" for original recipe. You'll have to upgrade yet again to the the superpolymashedpotatos though. ~~

Aeros wrote:

what is a midi connector, and why do i need it?

ehhh move along sonny... back in my day.. we had this archaic thing called 'midi'. A feller could send notation and parameter information among things from one synth to the other.. get off my lawwwwn.


We have officially changed into a new era. Electronic Musicians who do not know what Midi is..

Its okay to ask.. I'm not meaning to make you feel uncomfortable about asking questions, Aeros.

I just think we as a group have stepped into a new dimension now... where we dont have to use midi and such to make enjoyable 'electronic' music. Where the newer generations don't know or need to know what these old things are!

lol, i may have misled you... I know what MIDI is, but i just don't know why i need an additional CONNECTOR to hook up a keyboard to my soundcard!

If not through a MIDI cable and connectors, how else would you expect your keyboard performance to be recorded into a MIDI sequencer? You can only avoid this if you are not sequencing and instead recording just the keyboard's audio output when you perform.

As for FM7... It's superb. However, Sytrus should have equivalenet capability, is supposed to be about a third of the price, and is scheduled for release shortly. I think it's supposed to be out for Holiday purchasers but I'm not certain.

which is better do you guys think? Waldorf Q, or access virus kc?

Aeros wrote:

which is better do you guys think? Waldorf Q, or access virus kc?

My vote's for the Q,but that's personal taste.
ew

ew wrote:

XanaX wrote: I don't have an Audigy, but I think that if someone is making primarily softsynth based music, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Enough snobbery! Sure, for a bit more you can get into some of the M-Audio lower end cards, but that money would probably be better spent on another synth. If you can call the fact that you're locked into a 48k sample rate with ASIO,lousy support and horrible drivers fine-then I guess you'd be right ew

I said "primarily softsynth based music." 48k sampling rate---completely irrelevant. You're rendering anyway. And resampling audio in Sound Forge, WaveLab or a similar app should leave you with results equal to those recorded at 44.1. Lousy support? I don't know about their support, but once you have your rig up and running, who needs the manufacturer anyway? Same with the drivers---if they allow you to play your softsynths, how horrible is horrible? Do they get the sound from the computer to the speakers? All I'm saying is that if you're on a budget, there's not alot else out there which will get you going for $50-60.

XanaX wrote:

I said "primarily softsynth based music." 48k sampling rate---completely irrelevant. You're rendering anyway. And resampling audio in Sound Forge, WaveLab or a similar app should leave you with results equal to those recorded at 44.1. Lousy support? I don't know about their support, but once you have your rig up and running, who needs the manufacturer anyway? Same with the drivers---if they allow you to play your softsynths, how horrible is horrible? Do they get the sound from the computer to the speakers? All I'm saying is that if you're on a budget, there's not alot else out there which will get you going for $50-60.

For the first four months I had an Audigy2, it was incapable of using the XP ASIO drivers without a BSOD. The WDM drivers (for Sonar) were adequate, the MME drivers (since FLS doesn't support WDM and ASIO would crash) were terrible, latency-wise.

They finally released some working drivers, but I'm still not enthusiastic about the support.

48Khz vs 44.1Khz was an issue for a couple of older VSTI that didn't auto-adapt to the frequency.

Face it, Audigy (and Creative cards in general) are gamer's cards, and entertainment cards. They're not sound cards for serious music work. I'm not in a hurry to dump this one, but you can bet I won't buy another.

Doug

Recommending audigy, eh.. how can you live with yourself, bad bad person you..

It IS a horrible soundcard you know. The devil himself made it.

XanaX wrote:

I don't have an Audigy, but I think that if someone is making primarily softsynth based music, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Not at all,if you can block out the crackling when you get to a decent track count and don't mind a never ending search for a good driver that will never appear.

Why are you guys talking about his soundcard??? He's talking about getting a Remote25 Audio Xtreme so that will be able to act as his new soundcard, he can ditch the Audigy already without even having to think about necessarily getting something else. Furthermore, he'll have all the tactile control he'll need since the Remote25 Audio has a K-Station built-in & all its controls come pre-mapped to V-Station (which is also included as part of the Xtreme upgrade).

The Xtreme bundle also comes with Cubase SE & Ableton Live Delta. Even though those are crippled versions of the main programs, you could still rewire Live into Cubase & have one stomping sequencer. Perhaps Sonar could then be swapped with more synths.

Eric is right, the Novation ReMOTE25 Audio Xtreme is probably the way to go for his situation.

Whatever----I know a couple of people who've had good experiences and made some good music with the Audigy. And now I've heard from at least one person who's had bad experiences with it.

Never mind.

Seeing that people who say "Whatever " tend to wind me up just a bit ;some answers to your questions,XanaX.First;drivers.

Quote:

if they allow you to play your softsynths, how horrible is horrible?

When they cause BSODs on an XP machine,pretty horrible.When they clog up the registry with entries,pretty horrible.When they create hassles with other software,horrible.When they leave over 300 registry keys AFTER being uninstalled through Device Manager AND Add/Remove Programs,unforgivably horrible.
Support;

Quote:

support? I don't know about their support, but once you have your rig up and running, who needs the manufacturer anyway?

You hit the question straight on the nuts there.WHEN and IF.My first experience with a Creative card-bought a SBLive back when they first hit the market to replace the onboard sound on the machine I was running at the time.I needed WDM drivers(was and still am a Sonar user),and on the box,Creative said ME's supported(also running ME at the time,but that's a different story ).Install the sucker,and...no WDM drivers.Get hold of Creative support by phone,and it's "Oh,we only support WDM drivers for 98 and 2000".Meanwhile,I had disabled my onboard sound,but the SB HOSED it-I mean,it couldn't be enabled again-even after uninstallig the SB.WEnt out and bought a Terratec
New computer running XP and looking for a second soundcard.Found a good price on an Audigy,and thought "I'll try them again".Bad move
After tons of blue screens and Creative saying "It's just your system",I got an e-mail from Microsoft saying that it was a bug on the Creative side,and there were new drivers available.More stable,but pops and crackles galore.Plus,I had to work at twice my normal latency to get it to even work with Sonar.Uninstalled the Audigy and gave it to my gamer nephew.
Sampling rates;

Quote:

48k sampling rate---completely irrelevant. You're rendering anyway. And resampling audio in Sound Forge, WaveLab or a similar app should leave you with results equal to those recorded at 44.1.

Incorrect-you're always going to have some artifacts
if you resample.
ew

So you got hosed. That doesn't mean that the Audigy doesn't work for others. You should have done some research before buying it. I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to give Creative any more money, and why you discourage others from doing the same. Still, it does not negate the fact that plenty of good music has been produced on Audigies. BTW, while there are artifacts when resampling from 48k>44.1, they aren't audible to the overwhelming majority of people. And, let me point out AGAIN, I was referring to music that is primarily produced within the computer, NOT audio. And what I was saying originally was that if the guy already had one WORKING in his system, then he could hold on to it and spend another $100-200 on another softsynth.

If you really want a Virus, get the XL Rack (around $1100 online) and a MIDI keyboard for $200-300. Also, those soft synths you mentioned and Sonar all have demos for download. I would go to a store and try the Virus and Q out for comparison.

If I were you fella, I'd be buying myself a micro-q cuz that truely is a quality synth. And for the money they go for now, its a steal. Virus kc, thats pretty much the top model so it should be extremely pricy. I agree with the other guy (sorry I didnt notice his name) that the rack is probably the version to go for. Or check out a s/h Virus B, they're going for around 400quid.

Now I stired up a bit of a ruck last time I started saying what I though about synths, so I'll simply say that my favorite is Q - the filters are amazing, and the sound equally distinctive but not so cliche as the Virus. The Virus is a supreme synth, but I just love that electro'y Waldorf shit!

If I had to do it over again, I would've bought a Micro Q instead of the Emu Vintage Pro last year. The VP interface is a royal pain the tuckus. There might be a few Micro Qs floating around Ebay. You can also download free sounds at the Waldorf website.

Another microQ user here.I've had mine for over two years and I'm still coming up with new stuff to do with it.And,as was said,they're dirt cheap nowdays-and I thought mine was a good deal at $700 new a couple years ago.
Get a good editor for it,and you'll be in
PATCHER'S HEAVEN
ew

Hey EW, can you suggest a good editor? I dont use one at present.

Getting off-topic but...

My SB Live Mp3+ experience was horrendous with my VIA chipset motherboard. Constant crashing. After much research I purchased an SIS chipset motherboard.

After that the soundcard has been flawless ever since. Using the digital output to avoid noisy DA conversion can provide very clean output.

Yes, I did have to be a complete geek and replace my motherboard to get a stable system. However, the mb and soundcard were around $120 total and now yield great results. Less money for hardware means more money for soft-synths!