It was reviewed by CM recently as well.

Me, I found the FM review annoying. It was very positive, but appeared to concentrate on the possibility of using it as a breakbeat loop library. Which is all very well, but hardly the be-all and end-all of the product. This very tight focus meant that I didn't really feel like the review was useful for someone who wanted to use it for more traditional music styles, which surely has to be a large chunk of the target market for a cracking library as BFD's.

If that's true it could almost fall into the "don't do me any favors"category.
One can only hope it may peak curiousity in the product by others to do some research and discover what a great product BFD is.
Certainly as time goes by,"word of mouth" will probably be it's best review.

From what Ive read elsewhere, they did the same kind of stutter steps with Sampletank-2... I havent read the reviews yet, but it's kinda starting to sound like if its not Hip-Hop, with FM its a flop....

Not when I'm reviewing. I'm unmoved by hip-hop, so it's unlikely to find a way into anything I write - although if I thought that a product was likely to be of particular use to folk producing that genre, then I'd ask someone better informed than me for advice.

Not that I need to defend spikey's comment, since a glance through FM would show it to be nonsense, but FM has no policy on reviews at all. Us reviewers are not under any formal instructions from FM. The only thing that Andy (the ed) and Oz (reviews' ed) and I ever discuss is that we are reviewing for the readers and not the manufacturers. That's it.

However, this thread suggests an interesting point that has crossed my mind lately: the idea that some reviews could usefully include a second opinion.

I think that the BFD review falls into this category, since like Phaedo, the reviewer didn't tackle the use of BFD in the way that I would use it. (That's not a criticism of the review, since we all write differently and from a different perspective - basically centred around our production techniques and experience. Then there are space limitations, etc.).

However, this would require two set of product from manufacturers/distribs, and if only you knew how difficult it is to get one product out of most of them

So its not the policy of FM to be biased, just the reviewers?

Seriously, Its good to see a reviewer thats not tainted by what is hot at the moment, while they disregard the musical quality altogether because its not the newest or latest fad out there... As far as two opinions on the same product, it might work if the time line between the review and the print were spread thinner. Ive been told that the reason so many things were missed or excluded with updates of the said product reviews, was because it takes too much time to change once ready for printer. Double this time with another review/reviewer, and a product could be 12 weeks old from the start, and before any printed information hits the streets on it...! Yes, Im being sarcastic- but I think you see the catch-22 Im refering to, as the story gos of why we cant do another review on the same product once its upgraded, or if items were missed because of timeframes excuse....

I agree with Spikey. If you review this as a hip hop library you missed the point. It's for realism in making acoustic drum tracks.

I for one like this library for what it was intended to be for. That's all I care to say about the subject. Just disappointed in a review which I am entitled.

I think auxbus is right and honest when he says that his reviews are biased towards what he knows.

Too many so-called reviews are simply lists of features read off the brochure, and lack any flavour of their own.

Are reviewers biased?

Of course they are. That's what makes them interesting.

spikey wrote:

So its not the policy of FM to be biased, just the reviewers?

Not a policy, nor a requirement. But I suspect that it helps to be opinionated

Quote:

As far as two opinions on the same product, it might work if the time line between the review and the print were spread thinner. I've been told that the reason so many things were missed or excluded with updates of the said product reviews, was because it takes too much time to change once ready for printer. Double this time with another review/reviewer, and a product could be 12 weeks old from the start, and before any printed information hits the streets on it...!

Not two reviews, just a second opinion. And then only for some stuff (mainly software, I would suggest).

Deadlines are critical, of course, and the work has to be done over the publishing period, not crammed into the last day but a few hundred words giving a view from a different perspective would be achievable within the same schedule - although the eds might not thank me for saying so

@dune727

Quote:

I agree with Spikey. If you review this as a hip hop library you missed the point.

I didn't review it, as my post makes clear.

Quote:

It's disappointing when a magazine's reviewers seem to be like punk kids who only want things to be for dance music purposes.

And on what do you base this unsubstantiated nonsense? Pray tell wise old disco-dancing, medallion-wearing sage?

Two sentences. Two pieces of misinformation. Bang goes your reviewing career.

Quote:

It's such a one dimensional attitude. It's a bit amateur to think that people don't also make jazz, rock or other styles of music too. Who would go to print with this kind of ignorant commentary? It makes the magazine look superficial and unknowledgeable.

"ignorant, superficial and unknowledgeable": Mirror, mirror on the wall...

Quote:

Maybe reviewers don't get paid enough to be knowledgeable!

Thanks for the incisive, witty, unbiased and intelligent appraisal. Your contribution has been duly noted and filed appropriately.

@kevvvvv

Quote:

Too many so-called reviews are simply lists of features read off the brochure, and lack any flavour of their own.

I only read the blurb once the review is done, in case I've missed something. I try to get the manufacturer or distributor to give me their view on a product. If they simply send the blurb, rather than a real-world view, then I put it to one side.

It's interesting how rarely a manufacturer will give a view before the review, yet, amazingly, can find the time to write endlessly if the review is less than favourable (not that I'm suggesting for minute that dune727 is in any way associated with IK and is still smarting over the less than favourable review that FM gave it, as his posting history demonstrates).

LOL

The joke is, it's a good, solid, review in many ways. It's just, for my purposes, useless. It didn't seem to even spot the restrictions discussed here e.g. No brush kits, no left-handed hits, no MIDI out.

Phaedo wrote:

LOL The joke is, it's a good, solid, review in many ways. It's just, for my purposes, useless. It didn't seem to even spot the restrictions discussed here e.g. No brush kits, no left-handed hits, no MIDI out.

Quote:

The joke is, it's a good, solid, review in many ways. It's just, for my purposes, useless. It didn't seem to even spot the restrictions discussed here e.g. No brush kits, no left-handed hits, no MIDI out.

Cool, can't wait to read it.

-MIDI out is in the works.

-Brush kits are finalized, here's a couple tests of them in BFD:

http://www.geocities.com/loopmaster28/burshswirl1.mp3
http://www.geocities.com/loopmaster28/BFD_Brushkit1a.mp3

-Left-handed hits... I was asked for these and even put up with drummer funny-looks and recorded these. My conclusion- the side of the drumstick that the thumb is on has nothing to do with the sound.

-Steve

Steve,

Says the page is not available here...


Good to hear however!!!

Mike

any clue on how much these upgrades will be?

can't wait for the brushes


cheers


dw

The price has not been set yet, we'll announce it at NAMM.. the upgrade pack on its own is more than double the size of the original BFD library, but it certainly won't be double the price

will it still be all GM?

-dw

If you mean General MIDI... well, the mapping is configurable already and will become more so, but the standard GM map does not incorporate the level of detail that the expanded content has on some of the drums (ghost and low-vel hit sets, cymbal bells, etc) so we have to deviate a little from GM there.

i think FM reviewing it as a "hip Hop" kit wouldnt make any difference as if it was being reviewed as a "real acoustic" kit..

do yourself a favour and check out Drumkit from hell Superior demos.. thats how drums should sound:) not like BFD's weak sound
www.toontrack.com

Quote:

but the standard GM map does not incorporate the level of detail that the expanded content has on some of the drums (ghost and low-vel hit sets, cymbal bells, etc)

that is good:) more control, yummie

dw

auxbuss wrote:

I think that the BFD review falls into this category, since like Phaedo, the reviewer didn't tackle the use of BFD in the way that I would use it. (That's not a criticism of the review, since we all write differently and from a different perspective - basically centred around our production techniques and experience. Then there are space limitations, etc.).

It should be a critisism of the review, they get paid and they should put some effort into exploring all the issues. Otherwise where is the work or skill in just installing BFD and a month later saying 'It makes good drum breaks dunno about the other stuff'. Just shows what crappy amature mags both CM and FM are. They do for the Music industry what morning TV does for Journalism.

Then again mabey they think thats what the readers want?

chris

Quote:

do yourself a favour and check out Drumkit from hell Superior demos.. thats how drums should sound:) not like BFD's weak sound

Well the drums in DFHS wernt so weak, but the competition to win DFH S sure was... If thats what it takes to win nowadays, I think I'll just sell my equipment and buy a chainsaw...

Will the expansion include left-handed hits?

Hi Phaedo,

We had a lot of requests for left handed hits; Steve (BFD recording engineer/producer) looked in to this, and talked at length with the session drummers:- it turns out that, hit properly, a left and a right stick hit sound *exactly* the same - the only difference is that the drummer tends to hit a bit less hard with the left hand, but it really does sound *identical* to a right hand hit at a lower velocity.

So, no, there are no left hand hits in there - however, to make your drum programming easier, we are adding support for multiple "velocity sets" based on the same multisample. What this does is gives you four (typically, tho' can be more or less) keys based on the same multisample. A typical setup would be to have one key with the full range, one with just the ghost hits spread across the full MIDI velocity, one "softer" hit where a MIDI velocity of 127 gives you something roughly equivalent to velocity 80 on the full-range hit, and one "compressed" hit where you get the full range again, but the split is non-linear so that most of the MIDI velocity range is dedicated to the louder hits.

Another thing we are going to look at:- some of the snares in the expansion pack have so many layers (90+) that we will be able to produce "split hit" multisamples for them... we can get two keys each with 40+ multisamples, and by alternating the keys you are *guaranteed* never to hear the same sample twice in a row.

Sounds good. Certainly the left-handed hits in Battery Acoustic Drums sound pretty similar, but sound good when you do a drum roll.