http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2004/ReMote-49-61.html

seems like a must have.. has x-y controller and everything

But will they have drivers when they're launched

Pretty expensive though.

I was considering a Remote 25 because I wanted a vector controller, but 25 keys wasn't enough. So I bought an used Yamaha SY-35 with 61 keys, aftertouch and the X-Y stick for 250 euros.

I see an used Korg Z1 with XY pad, some knobs and 61 aftertouch keys for $600 on Ebay right now. The Remote 61 is $900...

that's insane price for a controller. I'd be ready to pay max 400-500$ for a good controller.. for 900$ I think I'd buy a new hardware synth or second hand.. I think I'll have to consider edirol again allthough it doesn't have x-y controller.. Hmm.. second hand z1 would be nice too Only that I don't need a synth since I use software.

900 BUCKS? They must be dreaming.

Yes it's expensive, but:
- it has USB (Hardware synths don't have)
- it has aftertouch (other controllers don't) I think this is the main reason for the price (very expensive keyboard). So if you want to play the CS-80V exactly as it's meant to be played, go for it!

Gix wrote:

Yes it's expensive, but: - it has USB (Hardware synths don't have) - it has aftertouch (other controllers don't) I think this is the main reason for the price (very expensive keyboard). So if you want to play the CS-80V exactly as it's meant to be played, go for it!

If it has polyphonic aftertouch great!

FWIW, several new Yamahas have USB - the PSR1100 and 2100 have USB device, and the Motif ES and PSR 1500 and 3000 have both USB device and USB host.

Doug

- usually you can't remap hardware synths knobs and sliders...
BUT IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE! But so is a real CS-80...

the remote is an excellent controller ... I have the 25-key version but I ****ing want one of these monsters

There is no indication that they will have polyphonic aftertouch, the Remote 25 doesn't AFAIK.

Many second-hand synths have aftertouch.
I wonder why so few of the newer controllers have it though. Non-polyphonic aftertouch shouldn't be that special.

USB MIDI isn't such a big deal except for maybe laptops. You can get a cable for 10$ that goes into the gameport.

And you can remap controllers at least in Logic - I'd imagine in other hosts too?

But if you do have lots of spare money, go for it. It just doesn't seem like a very good value for money to me.

Yeah, but frankly, the Novation controller is the only half decent one of the lot.

Incidentally, to play Trilogy sensibly you need a minimum of 72 keys. Which is why my old Roland isn't going anywhere. I'd love the extra controllers, though.

At least its got aftertouch of some description. Its curious, given the preponderance of knob'n'fader controllers that there are so few keyboards that seem to support release velocity and true polyphonic aftertouch. Sweeping filters with a dial is in, obviously, but more finesse over the notes you play... unwanted?

Polyphonic aftertouch might be expensive to make reliably. There are only a handful of _synths_ ever produced that have it.

But as I said, I wonder why so few of the new controllers have mono aftertouch. Almost all of the synths used to have it (all but the absolute budget class).

You can get your choice of 61-key synth with a decent aftertouch keyboard used for - say $200-$500. Plus add the knob box of your choice.

(Behringer will have a knob box with 32 rotary encoders and MIDI I/O plus USB for less than 200$ BTW.)

The Remote's are nicely integrated, though.

BTW, I used to have a 49-key Roland keyboard and a Doepfer knob box but sold them and got the used Yamaha SY-35 instead. I found that I really didn't like using the knobs while playing stuff.

Polyphonic aftertouch might be expensive to make reliably. There are only a handful of _synths_ ever produced that have it.

Possibly, but one would have though that that 'economy of scale' thing would have played a part; develop an appropriate sensor and fit it to all your keyboards and the cost per unit drops. License it and it drops again... And electronic components are that much cheaper and easier to make than they were in the days of the Jupiter 8...

True...

Still, they should start with getting the mono aftertouch out there first

None of the Edirol's or M-Audios for example have it, I think.

Release velocity is monumentally cool.

Actually, in general, no-one has ever really produced a decent controller keyboard. The number of people who use a synth keyboard is testament to this. (Rob Papen programs Albino with a Virus, for instance...)

I am looking forward to the Novation Remote 61 Audio Xtreme Control which includes a synth engine and a copy of V-Station.

http://www.novationmusic.com

Robert

Ah the perfect controller. Of course it means different things to different people.

My ideal controller is probably the Kurzweil K2600, as it is the one board with a killer synth engine + has the long ribbon, 8 or 9 sliders, KB3 mode, channel AFTERTOUCH (I can't live without it), and some other very cool master controller capabilities and costs an arm and a leg

For pure controllers, the Roland A-90 comes to mind.
Right now, I am happy with my Alesis QS7 (and it cost me $500 new), and I will add a knob box some day.

I think the price is absurd! I thought $900 was for the audio version. Reality check: For $500 list you can get a Roland A-37 (76-Key MIDI Keyboard Controller with Velocity and Channel Aftertouch). Of course it doesn't have the knobs and sliders....but i don't think those cost $400+

What will they charge for the audio version??? $1200??

I'm bummed because I wanted one of these. But I'll just buy a seperate knob box.

You can either buy a good second hand workstation synth, or like stated a really great Roland Controller, plus buy the motorised Beringer controllers at $199 each and still have money spare !

I have the remote 25 and I can state, the controls are plasticy and not very good (compared to logic control or the beringer new controllers). Also the keyboard feels a bit tense with too much bounce which is difficult for those tender moments.

I will sell my remote 25 and go for a beringer controller, because the knobs where all that I wanted.

Tachikoma.

I think they should start making MIDI keyboards with extensions just like the mackie mixer controler has the possiblitie to increase the slider count.

I have to say, I don't understand the difference between the Roland A-31 (which I own) and the A-37 (which is still in production) except for the colour...

The A-90 is, of course, out of production too. In fact, I've got very little faith in the build quality of most controllers these days.

For those who are unaware, Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price is NOT the street price. In general, competitive retailers can knock about 20-30% off of that. So $899 would drop to, say, $699 or so.

Better yet, if Novation sees M-Audio's new upcoming controllers as a threat, they might drop the MSRP a little more... I'll be very interested in comparing the two when they're out.

- m

Why is nobody doing a 37-key controller with knobs and faders like Novation?

For live purpose 2 Octaves is not enough, but 4 Octaves is too big. 3 Octaves would be just ideal!

Arrrr... just get Trilogy. It'll soon cure you of wanting a small keyboard.

While on the subject, is there anyone in the world who actually likes Roland's mod-wheel support?

While we are in the subject. Is there anyone who is planning to make a MIDI controller with an infrared beam anytime soon?

I think the Novation keyboard action is jolly spiffing so I'm looking forward to the bigger keyboards enormously. Jolly well done chaps - top hole. Much better than the M-Audio or Edirol rivals

dr.wackler wrote:

Why is nobody doing a 37-key controller with knobs and faders like Novation? For live purpose 2 Octaves is not enough, but 4 Octaves is too big. 3 Octaves would be just ideal!

1. The Nord Modular G2 doesn't have faders or a USB MIDI interface, but it is three octaves, and has eight rotary encoders that can be bank switched to cover 120 parameters. The rotary encoders have LED collars so parameter values are indicated even when changing patches. It has high-quality channel aftertouch (poly would be better). So I am going this way.

2. IMHO, the best controllers were the Roland A-50 and A-80, with polyphonic aftertouch (which requires a separate pressure sensor for each key). These retailed for about 2K, but that is what it takes to get the most out of software synths like Z3ta+, Albino, etc.

3. IMHO, I think the Novation ReMote Extremes are getting there, with 4-5 octaves (would like a 3 option), aftertouch, synth sounds, audio interface, yet can be battery/USB powered, and the batteries can be charged via USB. Someone did some good engineering here.

dr.wackler wrote:

Why is nobody doing a 37-key controller with knobs and faders like Novation? For live purpose 2 Octaves is not enough, but 4 Octaves is too big. 3 Octaves would be just ideal!

And when the heck, will, somebody, doing a controller with knobs and faders like Novation... and... hem... and... cough... with 88 HAMMER weighted notes ?

My dream nearly came true when I saw this :
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM04/Content/Studiologic/PR/VMK-88. html
But this is semi-weighted action....

Am I the only one mutant, VSTi freak & classical piano player dreaming of this all in one sort of thing ?

bast wrote:

Am I the only one mutant, VSTi freak & classical piano player dreaming of this all in one sort of thing ?

I'm with you, though I have a jazz piano background and prefer sliders/faders when knobs seem the most common controls!

- m

Would this fit the bill Bast??

http://www.midiman.com/index.php?do=media.new&ID=f1d5e9fa5f5ab5ee94f61 b9b262d906c

Scroll down about halfway. I would have to say I'm excited (provided the keys aren't crap). I wish they had a release date, as this has shifted my interest from a Fatar controller.

CynicalSmile wrote:

Would this fit the bill Bast?? http://www.midiman.com/index.php?do=media.new&ID=f1d5e9fa5f5ab5ee94f61 b9b262d906c

GOSHHHHHHHHHHH !!
CynicalSmile
This is exactly what I'm waiting for.

CynicalSmile wrote:

I would have to say I'm excited (provided the keys aren't crap)..

Yep !!!! I hope this too !

Like I said, I'm just praying it's quality. I always wondered why companies weren't focusing on 88 key controllers. I know laptops and one octave keyboards are hip, but I need ALL the keys, as well as pitch and mod wheel minimun. Weighted keys are a BIG bonus, and the additional controls (pretty much making my Evolution UC-33 useless) are super icing on the cake. Like I said I was interested in a Fatar, but heard the pitch and mod wheel were crap. So I was going to have to buy another controller for that, if I got the 990 just for the keys. What a PAIN! I really liked the Roland A-37 (old roommate had one), and 76 keys wasn't bad, but 88 is ideal...also sometimes it's semi-weighted keys felt a little light, as I'm not the most proficient pianist fudging keys was common. Anyway I hope the M-Audio is of fantastic quality, comes out tomorrow, and costs $99.00 with a free copy of Kontakt.

Now, if only the new Novation units connected via Firewire or USB 2.0, and also had 8 analog i/o capabilities. That way, I would only have to have my laptop, the controller, and speakers and have a complete studio.

Or, if somebody would come out with a pro-audio laptop motherboard that had onboard midi ports and 8 analog i/o (1/8" connectors of course) w/32 bit converters...

I mean my parallel and serial ports are just sitting back there taking up space, dammit!

i don't want to sound harsch and love my rmt25 but here are the buggs that have been collected on the yahoo group:

1) - Note(s) get stuck if you change octave with note(s) still held.
2) - Panic button is not working properly. See above problem.
> 3) - There is no 4-way independent control of touch pad as shown on page 37 in the User Manual ver.1.5. Both X's have same exact value as well as the Y's.
4) - There is no ability to turn off after touch, which is recorded as automation by Reason and most programs, causing user to go back after every pass to delete after touch automation.
5) - Label inserts fall apart quickly due to digging corners out with fingernail, making the label system useless. Must use plastic with lift-tabs instead of paper.
6) - Pitch bend cannot be assigned to templates.
7) - Pick-up / latch feature not working properly. Resets itself to original value.
- Changing midi channel only affects pots, buttons and sliders. Keyboard is unaffected and stays on channel 1.
9) - No Windows GUI (graphical user interface) to edit and manage templates.


these issues must have been reported in june 03, at least not all of them have been corrected (novation support is far from great). personnally, sometimes my rmt25 screen turns blank.

bye!

Now, that sort of informative and detailed post is why I love KvR.

kepa1 wrote:

9) - No Windows GUI (graphical user interface) to edit and manage templates.

No Mac GUI either