This synth seems to have already dissapeared from discussions. the price is now $220 USD

i remember there were going to be extra presets and stuff released, but news about this synth has been nonexistant.

anyone actually using the full version?

opinion? pro's/con's?

Yes, I use it, yes, I like it. It's good a good 'sound' to it. I'm actually impressed by the frickin' square wave! Very nice. It's now up to almost 200 presets. A nice 64 'trance' bank worth of leads, and a 64 bank of basses that really 'hit' you good. 'Worth' is always subjective thing, isn't it? But for what it's worth, it's a pretty decent 2 osc synth.

Devon

well considering i am a preset whore that is certainly good news. i did test the demo the day it came out, and came to the conclusion also that it has a "good sound" to it. just that it's never really discussed much here, and i wondered if development was still active on it. so it seems to be:)

has that kvr promo offer eneded yet? anyone know?

I beta'ed it and found it to be very very stable.


It is also easy to patch design

I think Kiesel is making a huge marketing error by offering it at this price.
Competition from ImpOscar-$179US, Albino2-$179US(?).
G-media has a fan base already from Oddity and M-tron, Albino has Linplug and Rob Papen and then there is........Kiesel.
It would probably serve them well to offer it at a low price, say $129US and possibly sell more units at a lower price than very few at a higher price.
Get more people using it in their music and get exposure.
This obviously was a labor of love for Kiesel and if they can sell some and make a profit that would be great.
There is no advertising so it will depend on word of mouth, therefore you have to get more into the hands of musicians who in turn will talk about here and elsewhere.
$220.00US, is too high, sorry, but good luck.

Alright KvR, how much would you be willing to spend on Helga?

Maybe they're just trying to get into the pro market, rather than hobbyist. Pricewise it's about the same as Pro-53 but IMO it sounds better. It doesn't come in a shiny box (yet) but maybe some of the pros think the same way I do: no damn box = value added.

seamonkey wrote:

It would probably serve them well to offer it at a low price, say $129US?

in my money that's about 160 and for that i'd take it. but yeah, the $220 is scaring me, especially with the likes of zeta and rhino around. i do bloody like the sound though

Would you or have you bought Helga pough?
By the way Pro 53 costs about $159.00US not $220.

pough wrote:

Maybe they're just trying to get into the pro market, rather than hobbyist. Pricewise it's about the same as Pro-53 but IMO it sounds better. It doesn't come in a shiny box (yet) but maybe some of the pros think the same way I do: no damn box = value added.

again i bring the zeta, pentagon and rhino argument.

let alone all the concrete fx stuff.

you can;t tell me that stuff doesn't "sound" pro.

yep and it ISN'T in a shiny box yet which makes me wonder if it will get more expensive when it is

Hi, Johann from Kiesel here.

Presets are being added regularly and are available to registered users. I'm sorry that Helga has "dropped" out of discussions, but it has been pointed out that constant notices from developers are not considered polite.

The full, un-rebated list price is 210 USD.

A 10% discount has been available to KVR members since the release although it will expire tomorrow.

The coupon code is "KVR753" - we may extend the rebate period.

The current state of the dollar has hit us pretty hard, when we started out, you'd get 80 IKR for one dollar, now we get 63 IKR pr. dollar.

seamonkey wrote:

Would you or have you bought Helga pough? By the way Pro 53 costs about $159.00US not $220.

The MSRP of Pro-53 is $229. Didn't think I'd do my research, seamonkey?

I remember looking forward to Helga about a year ago, hoping it would be in the $50-$120 range and I would snap it up. When they announced the price I was a little shocked. It's a very nice synth, but I just don't have the cash for it.

Kiesel wrote:

I'm sorry that Helga has "dropped" out of discussions, but it has been pointed out that constant notices from developers are not considered polite.

That's not entirely true. As far as I'm concerned, devs are welcome to keep us up-to-date on their software. It's more a matter of balance. It's very kind of you to respect us this way, but I think your voice should be heard at least a little more often here...

Kiesel wrote:

The current state of the dollar has hit us pretty hard, when we started out, you'd get 80 IKR for one dollar, now we get 63 IKR pr. dollar.

I'm sorry to hear that. Our dollar has been going up a little bit, but I think only compared to the US dollar and so many of the developers are based in Europe. I think we're somewhere around .70/1.00 or something.

pough do research.....no way.
MSRP does'nt count.
My research came up $169US at mannysmusic.com.
I have seen it on sale for $159.

Johann, I wish you all the best with your synth.
As I said before I believe it was a labor of love for you all but I can't believe this is your sole means of making a living.
I understand the amount of energy and manhours it takes to develop a synth of this type and it's only natural to want to recoup some of this in return.
The marketplace is becoming more and more competitive and soon you will be facing stiff competition from the moog emulations, korg stuff and who know's what else.
I think it would be in your best interest to take as much a hit on this as you can and get it into more studios and recordings because right now it ain't working.
Please don't take this as criticism, I wish you the best and even more than that...success.

NI Pro 53 costs 24.000,- IKR out of music stores here in Iceland, that's 381 USD.

maybe it WOULD be better to wait for a boxed version then try and score a killer deal from a reseller?

I don't know of many plugin developers who actually make a living off this activity. If I wanted to get rich programming for a living, I'd be working for a bank doing databases, but this is much more fun...

That box means that some distributor, such as zzounds, will sell you Pro53 for $139 instead of the list price. There is a big difference between $139 and $210. I agree that what a synth is worth is relative, but in this case is it worth Pro53 and Adder, or some other good combination? Is it worth more than XPhrase? How about a combination of z3ta+ and Rhino? I don't know because I have not tried it yet. I do notice there is no picture on the web site. But, you cannot just compare it to Pro53 which is one of the oldest VSTi's on the market and sells for much less than the list price.

Robert

Kiesel wrote:

I don't know of many plugin developers who actually make a living off this activity. If I wanted to get rich programming for a living, I'd be working for a bank doing databases, but this is much more fun...

i wish plug in makers did make a decent living off this. but at the same time pleas understand i can't spend that much right now. I will consider it if the promo offer gets extended. i know you're in a hard position too, but i really do think you will sell alot more if you lower the price. anyway, just imo

ttoz wrote:

Kiesel wrote: I don't know of many plugin developers who actually make a living off this activity. If I wanted to get rich programming for a living, I'd be working for a bank doing databases, but this is much more fun... i wish plug in makers did make a decent living off this. but at the same time pleas understand i can't spend that much right now. I will consider it if the promo offer gets extended. i know you're in a hard position too, but i really do think you will sell alot more if you lower the price. anyway, just imo

Well, if you've been following the Price Hike thread, sales and price seem to have very little to do with each other.

Devon

I guess I'm partial to Iceland coz I just fell in love with the group Mum...and have been kind of following the launch of Helga. It's a "chicken and egg" problem - how to get the "buzz" without anyone really having a full version to start creating the buzz. This is a real text-book example of the market analysis being discussed in the current price-hike thread.

That said, I would welcome discussion by the developer or any devotee as to "Why, Helga?" What sets it apart from the crowd so to speak. I do agree that there is a difference -maybe subtle but I know it when I see it - between educating the "common" folk and heedlessly spamming product.

Of course, if you would like to send me a full copy for free I would be happy to start talking it up on my own.

Rabid, you have to realize the $220.00 price from what I understand IS the firm price.

Nothing would make me happier to go to bed tonight and know that Kiesel is going to make a ton of money.
Kiesel has given us an instrument to make music with and we all love making music and playing these wonderful VSTi's.

I just don't believe Kiesel is being realistic when you consider the competition out there now.
Do you think Z3ta is worth more than $149, you're damn right it is. It's a bargain, but I can bet you Rene sells more units than if he charged $220.
He's been around the biz for awhile and I think he knows what the market will bear.

Again, this isn't a knock on Helga and I hope it gets written up in Keyboard and sells thousands of units and makes Johann a very happy man.

DevonB wrote:

ttoz wrote: Kiesel wrote: I don't know of many plugin developers who actually make a living off this activity. If I wanted to get rich programming for a living, I'd be working for a bank doing databases, but this is much more fun... i wish plug in makers did make a decent living off this. but at the same time pleas understand i can't spend that much right now. I will consider it if the promo offer gets extended. i know you're in a hard position too, but i really do think you will sell alot more if you lower the price. anyway, just imo Well, if you've been following the Price Hike thread, sales and price seem to have very little to do with each other. Devon

actually, no, i haven't followed that thread at ALL. maybe it's time to do so. but hell, some of those mega posts in it look fuckin scary!

ttoz wrote:

actually, no, i haven't followed that thread at ALL. maybe it's time to do so. but hell, some of those mega posts in it look fuckin scary!

You, a post slut like myself, scared of a little thread like that?

Devon

the price hike threads scare me too, any thread that begins with a four page manifesto and rantings about no software should cost more than 30$ are an invitation to a flame war...

Kiesel wrote:

the price hike threads scare me too, any thread that begins with a four page manifesto and rantings about no software should cost more than 30$ are an invitation to a flame war...

i just couldnt get past the 1st post


2 words for the thread starter:

better paragraphs

Yeah, the guy starting those threads has some unvented frustrations that need seeing to....

Oh my God, now I know why I didn't go in there.

PLEASE don't mention that username or he'll come in here and rant us all to death!

Good point.
Don't you just love the edit button?

Why don't you guys do what I did and read every post except the first one. You can get a sense of what that guy was saying from the responses.

seamonkey wrote:

Rabid, you have to realize the $220.00 price from what I understand IS the firm price....

From what I understand, $210 - 21 (10%), or actually $189 through tomorrow.

I agree that z3ta+ is a bargan and worth more. But, consider the top end synths here. z3ta+, Rhino, Tera 2, XPhrase, CS-80V, Moog Modular V, Imposcar, etc...

I would like to have all of those, but I own Z3ta+ and Rhino. Even then, I bought early for a discount. You cannot convince me that price does not make a difference. It does when you have so many choices. If Z3ta+ or Rhino cost more I might have bought something different.

Robert

Kiesel wrote:

NI Pro 53 costs 24.000,- IKR out of music stores here in Iceland, that's 381 USD.

... must be greedy people there or user error in pocket calculator operation.

This is called differential marketing and you know this from CD's, DVD's and Levi's etc. Put things in a box and away you go. Everything is expensive in Iceland; a cup of coffee costs $6, a pair of jeans maybe $240, 1 L of 95 oct unleaded about $1.50 ($5.67 pr. Gallon) the list goes on.

... maybe we should just outsource to Pakistan... now there's a thought.

Kiesel wrote:

This is called differential marketing and you know this from CD's, DVD's and Levi's etc. Put things in a box and away you go. Everything is expensive in Iceland; a cup of coffee costs $6, a pair of jeans maybe $240, 1 L of 95 oct unleaded about $1.50... the list goes on.

Maybe we could do a trade for some CDs, DVDs and jeans? CDs in particular are really cheap here in Vancouver...

Kiesel wrote:

a cup of coffee costs $6

... admittedly that would be a double latte with hazelnut syrup.[/quote]

Kiesel wrote:

... admittedly that would be a double latte with hazelnut syrup.

[/quote]

yum.

that would be a similar price here too, maybe $5 though

In fairness Johann you are talking about a software item and not hardware.
Your development of Helga I assumed involved developing codes and the like with the computer plus your manhours involved in the development. I can only guess at this because the only thing I've ever developed was a bad rash.
It's not the same as saying you had to pay xx for the hardware case, xx for chips, xx for lcd's, knobs, keyboard, etc.
You cannot use the evaluation of Iceland US dollars and then turn around and charge US customers what an Icelander would pay.
Again, if this was a hardware item I could understand.
When Oddity first came out it was at 129.00 then after x amount of months they raised it to 179.00.
Albino did the same thing but what it did was create a base market and created a buzz once people started using them.
I only wish you could use something like this to at least get this thing rolling for you.
Start lower and then do a price increase later.

Back to music instruments:
VA synths are quite out (for me), never invested in such old technology. I like advanced algorithms like Physical Modeling (Tassman, ...), Additive (Cameleon5k, Rhino, other animals) and still some FM, and supported those few developers a bit.
If I really feel the urge to need a saw or square tooth, Rhino does it as well, for 100 Euros.
Just an opinion thrown in the pool.

Quote:

"You cannot convince me that price does not make a difference. It does when you have so many choices. If Z3ta+ or Rhino cost more I might have bought something different.

I could not have said it better myself...

Unless it was in Classical Latin or Attic Greek...

Or Sanskrit?

I'm sorry rain2, the guy is taking enough heat on the price and I don't understand why you needed to make a comment like that when you're not interested in the first place.

seamonkey wrote:

You cannot use the evaluation of Iceland US dollars and then turn around and charge US customers what an Icelander would pay.

Actually, another developer from Europe just raised their prices for the US because of the weakening dollar. I bet if it directly affected your paycheck, you'd have a different take. I'm really hating the weakened dollar myself.

Devon

I bought it recently to take advantage of the kvr discount. It's completely stable on my system and I like its sound and the presets a lot!

James Althoff wrote:

I bought it recently to take advantage of the kvr discount. It's completely stable on my system and I like its sound and the presets a lot!

What do you think of the new trance bank?

Devon

Maybe the Great Money Gods are trying to create parity like they did in the NFL Devon.

Paycheck, what paycheck, except for some temp work I've been out of work since 9-11.

Quote:

What do you think of the new trance bank?

TranceEssentials?

I'm no expert in trance. But I've been playing around with those presets today and I think they sound fantastic!

Download the bank by Prince Valium, a well thought out and executed bank by all accounts...

I will be adding to Helga the ability to assign a user selected *.fxb as the default... unless there are any objections?

You da man!

Quote:

Download the bank by Prince Valium, a well thought out and executed bank by all accounts...

Just did -- thanks for the pointer!

seamonkey wrote:

I'm sorry rain2, the guy is taking enough heat on the price and I don't understand why you needed to make a comment like that when you're not interested in the first place.

You are right, but this is not the company forum and I added to the arisen "too expensive"-opinion the "cheaper and more advanced alternatives"-opinion , clearly marked as such. (to alleviate the complaining, because there is LIGHT ).

I understand what you are saying except I don't see it as a complaining thread.
Thanks for adding a bit of color.

Quote:

NI Pro 53 costs 24.000,- IKR out of music stores here in Iceland, that's 381 USD.

- Actually I had planned to go
to Iceland on holiday once, but then: no thanks

It even beats France and Engerland then.




Now I understand the position you're in Mr. Kiesel -
it must be hard for you, but:
You should try to lower the prize for Helga
dramatically at least for a short time
(similar to the DashSignature deal) and
check with that if your sale-rates really
will go up.
When that peroid exceeds you can decide
what price you should choose for the future.
I bet you make a lot more money that way
and have even a kind of good advertisement.
- I bet you'll get a lot of great reviews that way.

(maybe you should pm WilliamK and ask him
how his generous deal did work for him)