Hi there

I've just been reading the topic about GUI at http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=414195
and reading through it's showing that the new desgin of plugins for ConcreteFX produces a bit of a polarised option. I like the 2D flat type GUI, I find them much flexible but I'm intestered in other peoples options

So in a neverending quest to make a better GUI , some questions


What do you think makes a good 2D GUI?

What plugins have very good 2D GUI's?

What do you really hate about our ones?

Any feedback about this would be brilliant

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

* Edited because I can't spell *

ive never worried about 3d or 2d guis
what i like is an easy to navigate and usable
and as long as the sound is good well there you go

some synths take up too much screen space which is ok if this is taken up by tweakable parameters but wasted space no thanks

as far as ive seen from your guis(not a user yet but am thinkin about one of the bundles)they are intuitive and thats what counts


just remember this is kvr its very hard to please people here

I don't like 2D (flat) GUI's.
sorry.

I do like 2D gui's like the Ioplong plugins (SmartFX) and Ableton live very much. I also like it when plugins like Ozone use a combo of 2D design and 4D effects (animation etc). I think we need to move on from a hardware metaphor (except maybe when its justified by the particular product such as the Moog Modular).

Speaking for myself it's not the 2D aspect of Concrete FX plugins that makes them a little less pleasing aesthetically - in fact I think the 2D design has been a big step forward compared to the frankly ugly mishmash of textures and 2 elements in the previous versions. But I still think there is some way to go to make these designs elegant in an aesthetic sense - they are functional and have lots of features and are easy to use but to me they still seem rough around the edges.

Sorry about that - just being honest.

Hi Concretefx, I've just logged to your web site to have a look at your GUI. I remember long ago I checked your synths but didn't use them because I didn't like their GUI so I assumed they're not pro but I hear people say very good things about your plugs but I didn't judge them by their sound because of the looks. ( For all the smart ones who'd start whining what??? you judge by looks ? what kind of musician are you ??? Dont start with this issues. Usually when a plugin doesn't look good if it sounds pro it suprises you because you dont usually expect good sound from a synth with GUI which doesn't look pro. )
I've logged to http://www.concretefx.com/ , those new GUI's are better than before but :
1. You should notice the lacks of colors in both
adder and digital, it looks too monotonious ( if
thats spelled right ).
2. The knobs in Digital... They are considered knobs
because of what they do but they do not look like
it.
A Precise description is that They look like a
circle with 2 Radius lines in it... <--- The fact
that this makes the exact description isn't
good...too simple and not appealing.


Browsing in your GUI's in the site... Ethereal looks good. Compare it to Industry, the color in Ethereal makes it look much better comparing to Industry which looks dull. Granite looks the same way , dull.
The GUI of http://www.concretefx.com/BrushScreen.gif looks like a toy.
Take http://www.concretefx.com/DicerBig.gif for example , had the knobs been changed, the 'Buttons' changed to look like real buttons and not just like a text in a box and a descent background would have been created it would have looked much better.
Another suggestion is to get some of the synths to have a different GUI's , right now if anyone would see one of your synths and you'd show him another random synth he'd immediately know it is yours or not.
That for example causes prejudices because I for example checked one of your synths long ago and afterwards I didn't use it so afterwards when wanting to check another synth of yours and I saw it looks identical I didn't check that synth to the depth and left it.

My aim in this post is to give you a honest point of view and hopefully it'll help you improve your products GUI.
There'll might be some guys who'd say I like it that way, nice and intuitive GUI. Would it hurt them if the GUI looked better ? I'm sure the majority of people would like to see products which sound good AND look good rather than products which only sound good and the GUI not so appealing.
I Hope this post helped you Concrete

Hi there

Thanks for posts so far, very interesting it's been. Don't hesitate to come out with any criticism (it's the only way I'll learn )

Below is attached the new GUI for my fx QWah , what do people think about this. It's a changed version of the last GUI's (apologies about the big image)



Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

i think the biggest problem with the cfx GUI's is that it's still often difficult to 'understand' the interfaces at a glance (ie. to 'know' which elements are buttons, and which are labels, sliders etc.).

I think this is a consequence of the complexity of the CFX devices combined with the resolutely 2d graphic style (i have this same feeling to a lesser degree with the smartelectronix devices that use the totally 'flat' graphic style).

I would like to see at least 'pseudo 3d' interface elements. This would immediately make CFX plugs much more appealing and useable for me.

http://www.oli.adbe.org Oli's synthedit plugins have one of the best GUI's i've seen. Very simple and functional (ignoring the brightly coloured midigate!)

the new Qwah interface is a big improvement btw, the extra colours help a lot. But i still can't tell which peices of text are buttons and which are labels.

yeah that Qwah GUI is definitely a huge improvement!

Concretefx wrote:

What plugins have very good 2D GUI's?

well not exactly 2D but I love the Zebra GUI from Cris 'atariboy' Pearson

Patrick's new 'little green amp' isn't bad either (like it better than the GreenMachineII)

well I guess the most important thing with 2D GUIs is the color... and well I haven't tried your stuff, and don't know if it's already a feature... but how about various colors to choose from - or some kind of skinning ???

Concretefx wrote:

What plugins have very good 2D GUI's?

These are nice:

http://www.smartelectronix.com/~andreas/index.php?nav=9&p=9&kat=0

similar 2D design but cleaner interfaces and clever use of colours. I don't mean you need all the colours - you can have too much of that - its clarity of design that is important. The new QWah is clearer with the colour changes but colour is only one problem - another is that there is too much detail and still a bit messy - simplicity and elegance are better imho. Look at Ableton's lovely knobs for example - they tell you what you need to know but don't have horrible chicken scratches around them.

[quote="aMUSEd"Look at Ableton's lovely knobs for example - they tell you what you need to know but don't have horrible chicken scratches around them.[/quote]

.. i notice the CFX graphics have no anti-aliasing. I think using anti-aliasing would help avoid the 'chicken scratch' look to an extent.

I'm in favor of 2D GUIs, but they have to be done right. Ableton Live is the epitome of a properly done 2D GUI.

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=live

The things that I don't like about the GUI of fx QWah:

*The arrows on the knobs.

*The amount of text everywhere with the current layout and boxiness makes it look cluttered.

*The colors chosen and the contrast between them.

Just my opinion

That new QWah looks really good, Jon. Might I suggest, though, that for the tabs you have either a thin black line or else a black line/light libe combo? Having a thick grey line looks a little fuzzy.

cbit wrote:

aMUSEd wrote: Look at Ableton's lovely knobs for example - they tell you what you need to know but don't have horrible chicken scratches around them. .. i notice the CFX graphics have no anti-aliasing. I think using anti-aliasing would help avoid the 'chicken scratch' look to an extent.

definitely - as would a clearer, simpler and more balanced overall design aesthetic.

The other thing you'll notice about well designed interfaces like Live and Logic plugins too is they are not afraid of asymmetry - asymmetry lends a 2D interface a certain dynamism and life - CFX interfaces IMHO use too much of a grid approach and this makes them seem lifeless and uninteresting - you want to play with Live.

Just a few thoughts on the QWah screenshot above:

1) The layout of the 4 sets of filter parameters isnt the best it could be. You've got labels on the X and Y axes that partially relate to further labels in each row and column. The fact that all these controls are in a single light-blue 'box' makes things too cluttered
I think you'd actually be better off putting each filter into its own (light blue) horizontal boxes set on a panel of the darker colour you've got the X and Y axis labels on.
Then consider changing the X axis labelling to Filter#1, Filter #2 et.c. and amalgamate the Y axis labelling with that of the knob labels, eg 'Filter Type' 'Volume' 'Vol Mod' 'Pan' 'Pan Mod' et.c.

2) Text Labels - all the same font. Consider changing the use of fonts to differentiate between different things, ie at the very least differentiate between the tabbed dialog sections, parameter names, parameter values. Dont use more fonts though, that gets messy, just different sizes and weights.

A 2D GUI can look beautiful - Ableton Live and Tracktion are the best examples

ConcreteRX GUIs need bolder dark writing in a clear font i.e ableton/Tracktion - thin writing looks pixelated and amatuerish

Nice thick borders - no thin borders on knobs and boxes - that looks poor

The graphics must have a smooth font appearance - again Tracktion is the winner here

Again avoid graphics and text that has a thin pixelated almost 'scratchy' appearance - nice bold text in a beautiful font with a smooth anti-aliased appearance

The Concrerte GUIs are nearly there but still look a bit beta to me - I don't thick much work is required on them to make them look great though

Just been bluntly honest

From what I've read it seems a bit of additonal color perhaps to deliniate sections and a somewhat more authoritive knob. Regarding color, I suspect the absolute 2D look turns some people off. I don't have a problem with it myself. Anything cleanly and efficiently designed is fine with me.

I like the new, more colorful VST but have begun wondering if there isn't a second element that might be worth considering.

If you use one ConcreteFX synth, you mostly know the basic functions. The good thing is you know how things work, the bad, you see the same interface elements on the body of your work which may bother people in the same way E-MU experienced a backlash when users got sick of their look on the original Proteus models. It wasn't until the 2000 series starting with the Audity that they created anything remotely useful in real time controlling and help with programming.

I'm not saying you have a miserable interface like they did, but there may be some people that see similar elements, similar 2D and similar mostly 2 color designs and write it off.

Without picking on skybax, I suspect if the best synth in the world was not aesthetically pleasing he'd pass or never bother to try which you've heard a few times in this post.

Hope the observations are useful. To those that don't try something that is highly rated by users because it looks unprofessional; it's your loss but it's also the potential loss of great sounding synths not being refined. Last thing, take a look at Pentagon, mostly flat except for it's knobs. It's an interface many love.

Hi Jon,

I actually like the new direction you've been taking lately with your guis. I found your older ones were too cluttered. I find your new ones are the way more software should go.

Some thoughts:

A clearer delineation of function. Even beyond first glance, some of the controls are not very intuitive. I tried the Granite demo a couple of weeks ago and found it difficult to work with.

Group labelling might help. Make some choices perhaps on what controls are vital and what are secondary. Vary the size of the sliders/knobs and figure out placement based on importance.

I don't particularly like the whitish gui above. I think what's really needed is more strategy. Variation should be based on importance. Add some white not because it's pretty, but because it gets the message across.

For example on Granite, did the box at the bottom left hand corner functionally need to be so big. I'm looking at the screenshot on your site at the moment, and it just says Osc 1 and a parameter value. Surely that info needs prominence, but not necessarily so much real estate.

For an example, I think Urs's Zebra already mentioned is a beauty. Different sized knobs for important functions, varying block sizes for parameter groupings, well chosen titles. Upon first look, you know exactly where to start. If only I had a Mac.

I actually think your Digital is a fine example, but it too could use some size variation. With so much information and so many widgets to tweak, layout is vitally important.

The fonts are a bit small at times, too. And some lines could be a bit smoother/anti-aliased.

I'd highly recommend Joel Spolsky's book on UI design if you haven't already read it. It really is the best book on the philosophy of interface I've seen. You might also want to check out some of Edward Tufte's books on informational graphics.

Cheers,
Steve

I like the concretefx 2d guis, except the stretched fonts in the plugin names. Stretching fonts is a horrible crime.

For a fresh take on 2d guis check out oli's new plugs:

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34337

I think anti-aliasing is the key here. Although I object to using anti-aliasing on font that's so small, you could use it on the knobs. Spacing of the characters is an issue here (Main volume, Mod)
Overall it looks rather clinic. It could be a bit more adventurous by using inverted colours.
Also, right now rounded rectangles are THE fashion
If I get the time I'll do a skin for this one.

Hi there

Thanks for all the advice , some of it's a bit conflicting but still very interesting. It'll take a while going through this to see what I can do to improve our GUI

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

Problem with mailing

Problem with mailing

Problem with mailing

Jon,

I've always been frustrated with your GUIs. I know how hard you work on your products and I just don't think their GUIs do them justice. You are an extremely talented programmer. Why do you think that you must become a talented graphic artist too? I wish you'd find someone who's good at 3d to skin your stuff.

Another thought: Why ask the user-community? Wouldn't you get more meaningfull results in this case from asking developers or artists that skin software products?

As for my vote... I like 3D guis that look like hardware. A good GUI inspires. They make you want to use a plugin.

Jon,

I think the design (based on the picture you posted) is generally very good. The one thing that doesn't work for me is the adherence to a 2-D concept while still including 'knob' control widgets (and I feel the same way about Ableton, despite its overall stellar GUI).

A knob control is inherently 3-D and trying to translate it to 2-D just doesn't work. I would reexamine the need for the knob widgets at all.

It's fun to 'play with the knobs' on the Pro-53 or any of the similar VSTs that try to look as 'real world' as possible, but I think the knob as a generalized GUI widget isn't the best.

One big problem with the knob widget is that there is no agreement or understanding of how it should be controlled via the mouse. Some developers and users favor the up/down control-gesture, others favor the radial control-gesture. Smart developers support both, but that still means that half the users experience frustration on the first use and have to dig into the 'settings' to change the control behavior. (I know when I encounter a radial-controlled knob, it immediately wigs me out. I'm sure plenty of others feel the same about up/down knobs.) There's a reason there are no knobs in either the Windows or MacOS GUIs.

I like very much how NI's FM7 offers a variety of control options through a clever series of different 'views' (like the tabs in your GUI). It of course looks just like a real DX7, which is cool and certainly will sell more copies, but aside from the plastic-looking faders and the LCD-style readouts, its interface is far more powerful than the DX7 (and also much easier to use).

Anyway, just some thoughts...

Also, some good reading:

Apple's Human Interface Guidelines

(see the section on Fundamentals and Human Interface Design Principles)

In support of the humble knob..

Knobs usually take up much less space that sliders on an interface, this makes them a valuable element IMO.

Also, i think 2d/vector knobs make just as much sense as 2d sliders. both concepts originated in the real (3d) world and both now have stylised 2d equivalents.. what's the difference?

Vertical mouse movement seems standard for knob adjustments, i've never heard anyone compain about a knob that uses this method (unlike radial/horizontal control knobs, these draw lots of complaints).

One very important advantage of a knob over a slider is that you can set it at a lot of discernable positions: sw, w, nw, n, ne, e and se, whereas a slider can be positioned at top, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4th and bottom.
Sliders are best used for relative positioning between sliders (indeed, like a mixer)
Since I see no good substitutes for either of them, software or hardware (text only?), it might be possible that the best control elements already have been found.

Hi there

Thanks for all the advice it's been really helpful

I've redesigned the GUI for Qwah2, this is still not the final version but I wondered what people think about it



Something I've done,

- Moved the filters around
- Got rid of lots of the extra text
- Used larger / small dials depending on the importance of the control
- Got rid of the small lines around the dials
- Anti-aliased the controls

Still not sure about the colour layout (I need to experiment with this) and I do need to further alter the dials , but I do like dials because they allow you to a large range of values in a small amount of screen real estate

Cheers

Jon

That does have a more logical layout, Jon, but having some of the sections be the same colour as the background colour is a bit difficult to look at. I think I preferred the previous screenshot you posted...

i think that the antialiasing on the text looks a little scruffy.. i think it'd be more useful on the knobs and arrows.

Also, i'd consider lightening the colour of the horizontal bars that contain labels (make them a different, lower contrast, colour to the rectangles that are actually buttons, or readouts).

I fiddled around with the first gif. It's way from finished but what would be the use of that
It looks a bit messy, mostly because of the knobs. They're rubbish right now, but I think the colour scheme is good.

i always find that the correct use of light and shade (even in 2d) can seriously enhance the look of any interface. Linear gradients, overlays etc, all without even going near 2.5d or 3d will produce better results and can even help with correct direction.

also, to produce your gui 3x larger than the final image will be will allow you to be more critical and work more on details.

i forgot to mention, i do like your gui, but i think that there is too many repetitive things.

The layout is improved somewhat in the second version, but its still not as well labelled as it could in the filter section..

Ive done a quick mockup which shows one way of making the labelling of the filter clearer; its not a recommendation as much as its an illustration of how things could be better grouped. Ive only changed Filter1, but (IMO) it lays things out more usefully, and stops so many things 'floating' on that eggshell blue colour..

Hi there

Interesting ideas, when my website updates there should new GUI on the previous page. I've changed some things,

Firstly the labels put these into a light brown colours which I think looks nicer

Large dials now similar to Amoebe's

Slightly alter the anti-alias

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

Edit: this is the new setup (website updating is a bit slow)



(my this using a lot of space up isn't it )

If you're going to have knobs like that, please give them "tracks." And you should consider colours and/or higher contrast in your slider-bars. Something to make them looks like they're not labels.

I think amoebe's dials & legend placement look much better and more consistent across the GUI.

First off I really prefer software that is designed to be used as software and hate it when people try to do photo realistic copies of hardware.

One tip, on your tabs at the bottom, you really dont need to repeat MOD on each tab. Put it once on the left, and just put clear FAT numbers in the tabs.

Think of some dude in a dark club trying to use your vst on a fancy new laptop set to 1600 by 1200. Also take a tip from one of the most successful synths out there, Synth 1, make your gui resizable to suit the users needs.

I like the way this is going. Great work so far.

i like ameoba's idea best

Quote:

think amoebe's dials & legend placement look much better and more consistent across the GUI.

Well, thank you very much. But the layout is Jon's first post. I only changed the colours to give it a somewhat warmer look (Which was done by Jon as well but I seem to have missed that one)

I certainly like the colour changes. The only things that gives it a less-than-pro look are the aliased knobs and that cheap red (mod 1 and LFO)

Jon,what tools do you use for graphics? They seem seriously flawed in the anti-alias department.

Hi there

Gui attemp #4



So I gone for something that took some idea from the one that Ameobe send (such as the colour)and my previous layout. I've made the dials look more standard and it now has a rail, changed the anti-aliasing code, altered the mod selector and couple of other things

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

i think all the small text and horizontal/vertical lines should be sharp (no antialias). And all other curves and diagonals should be antialiased. (sharp pixel text for clarity, antialiased curves and diagonals in the graphics for smoothness)

(also, at the moment the text looks blurred rather than antialiased.)

Easy on the yellow or it might end up a second Helios
From your post I understand you don't use bitmaps at all, it's all coded. Maybe you could ask Jules (from Tracktion) how he does the ant-aliasing. I agree wih cbit, it looks blurred rather than anti-aliased.
A good rule of thumb is only to anti-alias font if it's bigger than 11 pt.
Layout is getting better every time.

I don't think you should have colours matching the background colour, unless it's something that you want to have be ignored by the eye. If you look in the filter sections, the headers that have that look like they're peeking through to the background. It makes the filter sections look like they have holes in them and it takes focus away from those header names.

In theory, yes. But in practice, I really don't see it happening. Focus will only be drawn away if contrast between text and background isn't big enough (which isn't the case here).
Maybe I stared myself blind on it.

It changes the negative space - at least to my eyes. In each filter section, the light blue should be the background and the headers should be on top of that. But since the headers match the window background, it looks like the light blue is foreground compared to the headers.

Does anyone else see it this way? Maybe I'm the only one...

All I can say is that (in theory) our eyes are trained to see blue further away than yellow (or red or orange). On this scale however, differences are minute.

Personally I favor the darkgreen background over the bright yellow one, but that's just taste.

Hi there

Number #5



So I've changed the background colour, changed the anti-aliasing on the text / dials and changed the sliders so they have labels (Just looking at this should I use a black outline on the dials ?)

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

Nice, that's your best effort yet.

I agree with pough though, you should definitely avoid using the background colour for anything in the foreground. It does look like holes in the interface.

I like the knobs, especially using larger knobs for more commonly used controls. From a cosmetic point of view though, the dials look blobby and pixelated and could use some anti-aliasing.

Also, most parts of the interface are rectangles with thin outlines. Try using thicker outlines for the sliders and perhaps using ovals instead of rectangles in some places. Although you don't want to make it gaudy and flashy, a few more colours for contrast wouldn't hurt. Abelton Live does all of this very well.

Tom

slightly rounded corners on the rectangles that indicate buttons might help identify them.

I agree with the comments made about the dark colours looking like holes in the interface, they make things a bit confusing.

Would you consider using bitmap dials instead of programatically generated ones? since it seems like the antialiasing is still a bit off.. and most graphics packages can do a perfectly good (bitmap) job?

Hi there

Number #6



In this I've change the dials so they are donut with a circle / change in colour showing place

Changed boxes so they are slightly rounded

Changed the colour of the boxes

I'm quite pleased with this so far. I think it looks quite good and I've developed some good code which I could put into other software

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

havent really followed this thread but i have to say that apart from some personal niggles (i REALLY dont like brown ... or green) this is your best gui so far by some way jon ... VERY nice

(very ... dare i say it ... ableton)

make it greys and blues and its a killer !!!

slainte rob

six looks good

I think you did the rounded edge thing backward, or at least partially so...

To make things consistent, you either have to have interactive elements (things you can shift, change, dropdown) one way and non-interactive elemnents (headers, info boxes) another. My recommendation would be to have non-interactive things flat (no rounding) and interactive things either rounded or partially rounded.

I think, the rounded corners of the the new interface look nice, but the knobs and their text labels could be grouped together more clearly, possibly like this-


The first image is the original ungrouped image.

The second is grouped using spacing.

The third is grouped using a border, but could look slightly cramped.

#6 with #5's knobs would be nice.

Hi there,

I just noticed this thread and took a few mins to propose an alternate design, which is a mix of 2d/3d.

pough wrote:

My recommendation would be to have non-interactive things flat (no rounding) and interactive things either rounded or partially rounded.

i agree, that was what meant when i suggested the rounded corners.

one thing i like about arney's design is that by positioning the readouts beneath the relevant controls it removes the need to have the extra readout labels that are present in the current design, saving valuable space.

Hi there

Thanks again for the feedback. Firstly slight misunderstanding about the rounding, it's a good idea about the rounding being used to signify controls rather than just generally.

About the dial value below the dial, I had that in one of the original but the generally feedback was that it cause the GUI to look crowded and cramped, this is because for instance the filter frequency needs to be quite big to take for instance 800hz as a readout

Arney's design is nice I especially like the dials

Probably new GUI stuff latter on

Cheers

Jon

So far I like design 5 the best, didn't care for the torus style knobs in #6 and with due respect, think the 3d mix of knobs tends to focus on those areas and is a bit confusing when compared to the 2d knobs.

I seem to be in the minority here.

No offense to anyone but when it comes to color schemes it's awful picky to say, I don't like these colors. At the same time, maybe it might not be such a bad thing to have a color box approach lie in Adder. Anyone can define the UI colors to their tastes.

I think the fact that the labelling on the filter sections, where, for example there's 'Vol' above and below one knob, but Pan above one and below a different one et.c. is potentially confusing and not particularly well laid out. cold c has pointed that out, and so did I earlier, but all the other designs dont seem to have addressed that at all, and it is poor UI design like that.

Hi there

The reason why there is a vol in the two label banners is that they correspond to two different things, the first is for the volume of the filter, the second for the volumes LFO selector (I should put something in that makes this more obvious)

I have to say I prefer the new dials myself, the previous ones where too fuzzy

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

If i understand correctly, what about arranging the filter units it more like this? (ignoring knob style and colours and my scruffy editing for the moment).

since making the graphic i also realised it would make more sense to position the 'vol' and 'pan' knobs next to one another, and the 'freq' and 'res' next to each other.. this seems like a more 'normal' order to arrange them in.

Hi there

I think that looks better than the current one, I'll change it

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

concretefx quoth The reason why there is a vol in the two label banners is that they correspond to two different things, the first is for the volume of the filter, the second for the volumes LFO selector (I should put something in that makes this more obvious)

Yeah I worked that out, but it wasnt immediately obvious...

Hi there

I've rearranged the dials / buttons on the filters hopefully will be easier to understand



Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

Ah, this looks good. Not sure if it still will be so good when you put them together...

That's much clearer

First off, let me say that I am having an absolute blast with your software. Thanks!

I'm much more aurally oriented than graphically/visually skilled but I just wanted to pipe up and give relatively conflicting feedback...I second rob's comments about the color. Personal preference is more towards the blues/greys than the brown/yellows. Strictly personal.

I really commend your efforts. You are working really hard and it shows!!

Hi there

Arrangment in Greys and Blues # 7 (apologies to James Whistler)



Better / Worse ?

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

Better.. but can't you make the dials round? I mean really round, not those crappy jagged circles with bad anti-aliasing

you need a Photoshop lesson son

that is the best yet by far jon

slainte rob

Concrete, finaly your plugs start to look much much better than what you begun with. I see that users feedback has been realy helpful for your designs, keep up the good work man

Quote:

you need a Photoshop lesson son

It's all home-made code. No Photoshop was harmed making this GUI.

I like this one as well but the contrast is a bit much. This one is not very easy on my eyes.

Still those aliased buttons...

i'm with you about the contrast.. now that it's dark here this one is burning on my retinas.

I hope this isnt a dumb question but what are the advantages/disadvantages of using bitmaps for knobs etc over generating them within the vsti??

(my guesses)

Bitmaps are nice because you can make use of the design-friendly features of many fine bitmap editing progs while you're creating them (eg, creating sharp antialiasing is a trivial task in photoshop). Also I would guess that generating photorealistic interfaces programatically wouldn't be feasable, so for some jobs you'd have to use bitmaps.

I suppose as long as you're dealing with simple shapes, graphics generated on the fly reduce the overall size of the vst (compared to using bitmaps).. I think you can probably do some interesting things with anmiation and movement if you're controlling vector shapes through code, so in terms of animation i'd guess this to be a more flexible approach than using bitmap frame animations. I'd be interested to know if there are more advantages too.

Hi there

I've gone the whole drawn in the program rather than pre-render because it allows you to do things with the controls during the problem i.e. you can do things like changing the colours / style of the controls, having labels which change to the value of the control when you alter them and so on . Basically they are much more flexible but maybe don't look as swish as pre-rendered.

I'll have a look to see what it's like if I reduce the contrast

Cheers

Jon

Hey Jon,

are you going to update all your plugs with your new design. I hate the old design but these recent ones are pretty cool

PLEASE

Hi there

#8 - Lighter and less contrast



I'm not sure about the dials , maybe a bit too fuzzy now. Also I might make the background a bit darker , maybe dark blue

Creepjoint - yes I'll be going back through the plugins with what I've learn't doing this and change them to make them look more presentable

Cheers

Jon

still liking the look now jon - whens dicer get a makeover ???

slainte rob

Hi there

Eventually I'll work through and alter the GUI of all the plugins, starting with the most recent and working my way back , so Dicer will get a new GUI (about the 4th)

Cheers

Jon : Concretefx

great news jon - thanks !!!

slainte rob

Hi
I think that 'ArneyS' gui looks the most impressive and usable - in particular the 3d filter section ;the style of which I would use throughout.
In my opinion the gui does play a role in sales , it also enhances the whole process of editing/patch creation ect if the layout is clear.
Flipper.

nah - mixing 3d and 2d is a pointless and confusing excercise

keep on the road youre on jon i say

slainte rob

Hi
I did say 'Use the 3d style throughout' which I dont think would be confusing.
At the end of the day considering the sales figures as seen in the thread 'the great vst price hike' I would suggest you do Everything in your power to knock your potential consumer out! - look at how well the Antares filter has done - the beautiful gui sucks people in.
Your in the business of selling software and imo the first port of call is the interface as a lot of people may see a picture or whatever and if the first impression is not a good one they are unlikely to pursue the product for lets say a trial/download.
I agree with others that the look of the product has put me of in the past - so take heed of potential purchasers (its product suicide to overlook this aspect)an attractive first impression(the gui)is paramount.
Flipper.

Hi there

Thanks for the posts, original flipper, I agree that a good GUI is very important. However my attempts at a 3d'ish GUI in the past have been less than successful.

By going in a 2d direction I can get something that looks reasonable good and also I think it focuses more on the usability rather than just a flashy front end.

Getting people to buy our software is a multi-stage process because even if you get people to try something because of it's GUI, if it isn't easy to use people won't buy the full version

Hope this explains the reason I've gone the 2d rather than 3d path

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

I personally am glad you're sticking with the 2D. I think it gives your plugs a distinctive look. I'm also glad you're committed to revising and tweaking the look and functionality of the GUI, which lets me know they're just going to keep getting better.

Concretefx wrote:

Hi there Eventually I'll work through and alter the GUI of all the plugins, starting with the most recent and working my way back , so Dicer will get a new GUI (about the 4th) Cheers Jon : Concretefx

so where does adder fit into this

number 8 is the best so far, of all!!!!

Concretefx wrote:

... However my attempts at a 3d'ish GUI in the past have been less than successful.

Have you not considered asking others to do the GUI for you, or do you prefer to keep it all in house?

i was wondering about that too..

Hi there

I prefer to do things in house (I couldn't afford to hire anyone anyway), though I am in discusion with someone at the moment.

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

I am a little late to this, but CFX have gone from my least favourite to one of my top favourite GUI designs. I can't understand how anyone could find them unclear. Someone said that it was hard to tell what were buttons and what were other things... ????
I just don't see where you guys are coming from. I am not blind, either, so can it! I like the muted tones; easy on the eyes. Very functional, and different enough that you know who's product it is, but not so different that it is hard to understand. I think that the GUI designs of ConcreteFX go very well in a set up, and also with the company name. I also like the customizable colours on some. Very nice!

oh... and number eight is definately the best. I like your earlier dials better, the ones just before the doughnut, but the colours and layout in number eight are perfecto!

Hi
A query ;does the use of detail and/or lots of colour within the gui put any strain on cpu or other resources?
Why dont you run competitions for gui designs?
The winner gets a copy of the finished product.
This way you will probably get the (almost free) use of people that are perhaps (more) talented than yourself which will allow you to spend time on other things, also there is no reason why you could still not put in a little : the winning gui may be subject to modification to suit the company needs!
Its a bit like the insular world a lot of us no doubt produce our music in; with a little outside inspiration miricales may be possible,no?
My original point was not to knock your gui but simply give some honest feedback.
If you want to stay 2d I do think it will 'pay' to explore as many avenues as possible.
Flipper.

Hi
A query ;does the use of detail and/or lots of colour within the gui put any strain on cpu or other resources?
Why dont you run competitions for gui designs?
The winner gets a copy of the finished product.
This way you will probably get the (almost free) use of people that are perhaps (more) talented than yourself which will allow you to spend time on other things, also there is no reason why you could still not put in a little : the winning gui may be subject to modification to suit the company needs!
Its a bit like the insular world a lot of us no doubt produce our music in; with a little outside inspiration miricales may be possible,no?
My original point was not to knock your gui but simply give some honest feedback.
If you want to stay 2d I do think it will 'pay' to explore as many avenues as possible.
Flipper.

Very very good stuff.

Surely a competition for GUI design is only of use if the GUI is bitmap based?

true. And, if there was a competition and a new designed each time, there'd be no cohesive identity linking the CFX GUIs.

Hi there

Thanks for all the feedback about the GUI Design, last time this thread has been looked at 2333 times, it's really been very helpful

I've decided that #8 (which a couple of slight tweaks) is going to be the final design for Qwah. I'm going to use the things I've learned in doing this to alter the design of our previous & future plugins

Cheers

jon : ConcreteFX

That's not to be underestimated. Whether you like the GUI's or not, you can always tell it's from ConcreteFX (those big letters in the right hand corner spelling Concretefx also give it away, of course)
This kinda seems the end of it. I doubt the layout could be much clearer, colouring is good and without the slick (bitmap based?) anti-aliased graphics -3d or not, I doubt it could look more professional than it does now.
Right now it is shouting: 'usability over eye candy', which in the long run is a good thing.

edit
So I wrote this before Jon put his final words in this thread.

The new look is great, but I personally don't like the knobs in this version (#.

I find the centre of the doughnut knobs a bit distracting. My suggestion for knobs would be a simple 'pie-chart' 2 colour styled knob, with a black ring for a border.. easier to grasp. I don't know what it is, but the little ball 'looks' imprecise, and a simple black line as position indicator would 'look' more accurate to me.. FWIW ? Just one opinion..

btw I love ConcreteFX GUIs, just to give some perspective.

Hi there

Final GUI for the new version of Qwah2 , I've changed the dials to something about smoother



More details about Qwah2 at http://www.concretefx.com/Qwah.htm

Thanks for everyone who's give me help in redesigning this, the next one I'm looking at improving is Dicer

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

I think this is a big improvement, the knobs especially look much better IMO. The colours are functioning much better now, and the graphic differentiation between elements works well.

My only criticism would be that most of the text is still fuzzy looking (i think it would look better without 'smoothing', like the text in the LFO display.).

I like your last one the best but I like the light grey/blue colors and I miss the bars around the knob to quickly show how far a knob is turned.

nice 1

I like the new design as well. More defined and the knobs are better defined.

btw Jon, I have an Adder demo running about 2:30. It's fairly abstract and a dense soundscape. If you'd like to use it (it's for the musicFAQ site) I could send it to you.

Bruce

Hi there

If you want to send us the demo at mail@concretefx.com, I'll be really interested to hear it. By the way I'll be updating the GUI for Adder as well using the stuff I've learn't hear

Cheers

Jon : ConcreteFX

The knobs are a big improvement on those donuts and the colour scheme works well. Do you plan for CFX future GUI's to have the user definable colours in Adder and Digital??

EJR

Hi there

Hopefully I'll be able to integrate this new GUI with the user definable colour setup in Adder & Digital (I'll see how it goes when I actually try it but shouldn't be too much of problem)

Cheers

Jon

Slick. Nice one!

Jon,

there are two Adder tracks, both non traditional in that I had a revalation about Adder. I use it for everything but for some reason I love layering things with it or just finding parts of a mix that it'll sit in. I discuss it at the site they are currently at:
http://artistlaunch.com/satinover

they'll be at musicFAQ once the new place has it hooked up along with it's review.

Sorry all for the ot but in a sense it isn't. I like the changes and all but privately and some time ago I was telling Jon that ConcreteFX's interfaces were great. I like a smartly designed 2D interface and between Digital and Adder I was pleasantly surprised at how fast they were to work in. Neither synth is what I would call simple and there are several options unique to ConcreteFX. In fact, the step sequencer is exceptionally cool in regards to how it works and to the best of my knowledge, it's being a first of it's kind.

The idea of scrambling through a bunch of 3D, beautifully rendered graphics would be a nightmare compared to the sophisticated layout afforded Jon's interfaces.
I like graphics, I like a pleasant to look at synth although I won't go to the extreme as some do, that is, not buying or using an unattractive (to my tastes) looking synth.
The thing that I find most important, having gone through the thread, is it's the functionality that counts. In the end that is the big issue.

Also, it's nice to see a developer who percieves an issue about his work and asks his audience (and possible audience) what they would like. That takes guts as anyone doing so exposes themselves to substantial critisism, and occasionally expectations that are difficult to impossible to meet.

For those of you who've used ConcreteFX products you know they are huge bang for the buck and anything but mundane. Hat's off Jon for starting and paying attention to the folks who participated on this thread. For me, this is what a good independent does. Some of the developers have such a huge base that they can use their mailing list, I'm glad this was public as we all get to see what's important and maybe learn a few things to boot.

Hi there

Thanks for those demo's X_Bruce, I'll have to have a hear of them

I really do enjoy getting peoples feedback about our GUI and it's been very useful in helping improve the plugins.

I'v started applying this help to our plugins, below is an inital reskinning of Dicer, still needs a lot of work but the screenshot below is the current state of play



Cheers

Jon

Dicer looks great. The band was going to buy the old version but might wait. Very nice GUI.

btw, the Adder songs are fairly....different, that's why they aren't offical demos though they'll be available to make specific points in the review.

revamped dicer looking very cool jon ... cant wait

slainte rob

Congratulations with this great GUI. It looks very good. I agree with cbit about the text.
Nice GUI for dicer as well.