Hey People,

Just wondering if any of you know any good vst's for rap and hip hop music , I dont have wont to start synths programing further than the ADSR basic stuff....

I need patches that will fit well in a mix(generally) without eq'in) I have tried alot of demo's and I am so glad i did because if i had bought some of em i'd have been pissed,

it seems alot of synths have 1 or 2 presets that are good, but are in no way consistant, I dont have a very powerful computer(not that slow) so i'd like a synth that doesnt completely eat cpu power, however most one's i've tried are fine...

I heard that the Jp80 is good but thats for cubase and not openstandard....

I work with reason alot, i can get good beats in there but the synths usually let me down....

I need something like a nordlead emulator or the likes, I'm not in short supply of fat bass sounds so thats not especially important,

It just seems like there are so many good synths for dance, trance, techno, etc but aren't cutting it with hiphop music.

Does anyone know a good vsti synth for hiphop synth lines.... you know the spacey whacky sounds but not too whack. I tried alot now and the prophet 5 is impressive and so is the novation vstation, and discoverydsp is one of the best ... but i really want my meat chopped for me because i'm overloading my brain with sequencer knowledge, etc.

Have any of you guys been lucky anough to find a synth that kicks ass for hiphop?

Thanks for Anyhelp!

trilogy for basses
hip hop stylee

maybe sampletank 2 or hypersonic as well.

dw

yeah i heard trilogy was great but , i'm not sure i wanna spend that much cash on just bass sounds(even though they are meant to be the best) I have good bass patches and samples all ready, its really the high pitched synths i'm looking for to fill the mid-high end of the mix......

when i get more cash i'll look into buying trilogy, I heard its harddrive intensive because its sample based which at first put me off.

Maybe what i'm looking for only comes in the form of hardware like the korg triton or Yamaha motif of whatever...... Which unforntunately i can yet afford a hardware workstation and have concerns about implementing it with software +room space restrictions.

Thanks for the reply!

whoops completely somehow misread your post
thought you were lookin for basses


hmmm screamin leads check out i believe it was grok ms20?
ill have to check and it was free

Check out [ discoDSP's Discovery ] - it's based on the NordLead2 and it's quite flexible. It's got a great sound to it.

Also, I think SampleTank2 is a good idea, Gives you access to a ton of sounds for a decent price, and it can be tweaked, but there's a ton of sounds in there that don't need any tweaking at all.

groogle wrote:

Hey People, Just wondering if any of you know any good vst's for rap and hip hop music , I dont have wont to start synths programing further than the ADSR basic stuff....

One of my secret weapons is Bitheadz Retro AS-1. Horrible if you wanted to program it, but the presets are among the best for out of the bag presets for hip hop.

FM7 because of the million patches available for it. I use it sometimes for basses. and a few of the synth patches.

And like Bones preaches, the Wasp ain't no joke. It truly does have a great character in it's sound. You can start from one of it's presets and tweak a little to get a more focused sound. Only thing I'd like to see on it is a simple slide knob.

Pentagon 1 is awesome.

Soundfonts are to me the most important and vital creation next to VST. Gotta get some of that in your life.

I use Zero-X Beatcreator to export sf2 slices and midi and import into Battery inside FL or Orion. Monsterously powerful combination right there.

Quote:

I work with reason alot, i can get good beats in there but the synths usually let me down....

It's definately possible to get good results in Reason, but it's hard for me to start a new project in Reason, knowing full well that I will be longing for the flexibility of a VST host like FL or Orion. I almost didn't bother to reinstall Reason after my last reformat. I did it anyway just for the hell of it, but I know that I probably won't be making anything in it. Just playing around.

Quote:

I need something like a nordlead emulator or the likes, I'm not in short supply of fat bass sounds so thats not especially important

Soundfonts and a good soundfont player like the Jeskola XS-1 might help you in that. I've found some good soundfonts sampled from popular name synths and they sound very good.

Quote:

It just seems like there are so many good synths for dance, trance, techno, etc but aren't cutting it with hiphop music.

You're dead on with that observation. I've been struggling with this for 4 years. I recently decided to add some hardware into my setup so I'm now looking at some workstations. Only thing that's delaying me is that I fear that I may begin to sound like everyone else using the same stuff. Right now, I'm forced to sound different because of my purely "soft" setup.

Quote:

Does anyone know a good vsti synth for hiphop synth lines.... you know the spacey whacky sounds but not too whack.

Retro AS-1. Old faithful it is. I haven't found anything else with as much out of the box useable presets. And I'm a preset kind of guy. No time for sound designing.

groogle wrote:

yeah i heard trilogy was great but , i'm not sure i wanna spend that much cash on just bass sounds(even though they are meant to be the best) I have good bass patches and samples all ready, its really the high pitched synths i'm looking for to fill the mid-high end of the mix......

Trilogy is good for more than just 'basses' though. Take off the high pass filter, and there is your lead line. The bass guitars I would think would be pretty good for hiphop too. Yes, it's pricy, but it's worth it.

Devon

I haven't tried myself but Plugsound vol. 4 Hip hop / R'n'B toolkit is certainly trying to do what you want to do.

Program your own patches on any synth you want, it's no rules for what a hiphop synth is, that's the first rule
Seriously, look at Neptunes, they use sawtoothpatches in songs, hiphop is about the feel, understand?
But always try to used a 70s breakloop as basis for beats
And if you really need a couple of suggestions, then try Discovery, and I read that you use Reason,well, malstrom and subtractor can cover your needs, belive it or not

I would say Plugsound 4 - Hip Hop n RnB - it's well worth the money and the sounds are slammin'

Alternatively if you have money to burn, Phatmatik and a couple of the Mad Jeff sample CD for loops

Trilogy mos def for bass. I know for a fact that the Neptunes and She'kspear use it.

also make sure you grab some of the samples on ontology.com cause some of these are heavy.

You can also get away with using UK Garage samples for drums and bass, its all in how you program 'em.

For a smooth sound check out Emagics EVP73 or Lounge Lizard for that 70s Rhodes/Wurly sound.

I'd say that Plugsound 4 and Trilogy should cover most things. Anything else like pads, etc can be done with freeware synths like JX10, DX10, etc. I love freeware synths and even though i can afford just about anything i still find myself using MDA e-piano, JX10 and DX10.

DX10 and FM Heaven are also a good free/cheap alternative to FM7 for those 80s sounds that are now back in vogue in Hip Hop.

Right now, Hip hop is very stripped down. As a rule most Hip Hop cuts only use like 4 types of synth sounds. a short arpeggio/blippy type synth, a deep bass, a nasty bass, and maybe a pad for intros etc.

Oh and use a clap or snap sound where a snare would be. that also seems big right now.

Plugsound vol 4 and trilogy, will as they say, hook you up.

Bling bling, and I'm out

there are just some threads i know i don't need to post too, cuz the answers would be givin quickly.

so instead i just post this.

safeaim wrote:

Program your own patches on any synth you want, it's no rules for what a hiphop synth is, that's the first rule

LOL. You obviously don't make hip hop then. When it comes to hip hop, there's a fine line between cool sounding, and what hip hop heads would call "techno". That's why it's easy to say that almost none of the presets in soft synths available are really suited to hip hop, or R&B for that matter.

Quote:

Seriously, look at Neptunes, they use sawtoothpatches in songs, hiphop is about the feel, understand?

Exactly, the Neptunes are excellent at walking that line and remaining on the cool side rather than the corny side. But it doesn't mean that anything will do. You have to carefully check the sound you're throwing in you hip hop track for any signs of "cornyness". If it's corny, it will be instantly recognized and you will be chastised accordingly. LOL. I"m not joking though.

Quote:

But always try to used a 70s breakloop as basis for beats

Why are you giving this advice? As much as I like 70's sound personally, it's only a small part of modern hip hop.

Quote:

And if you really need a couple of suggestions, then try Discovery, and I read that you use Reason,well, malstrom and subtractor can cover your needs, belive it or not

I think Malstrom is an amazing sounding synth, maybe more suited to sound fx than hip hop leads or basses. A lot of it's sounds are less than musical I think, but I really like it anyway. Subtractor is really useable in the hands of someone who can really program it. That won't be me and I think the original poster is not very interested in programming it. I'm gonna look at the Disco DSP myself though. I completely overlooked it due to it's ridiculous name and it's logo. There's too much junk circulating the net and we must have some way of weeding out the crap and wasting time. DiscoDSP was a dead ringer for being overlooked.

safeaim wrote:

Program your own patches on any synth you want, it's no rules for what a hiphop synth is, that's the first rule

LOL. You obviously don't make hip hop then. When it comes to hip hop, there's a fine line between cool sounding, and what hip hop heads would call "techno". That's why it's easy to say that almost none of the presets in soft synths available are really suited to hip hop, or R&B for that matter.

Quote:

Seriously, look at Neptunes, they use sawtoothpatches in songs, hiphop is about the feel, understand?

Exactly, the Neptunes are excellent at walking that line and remaining on the cool side rather than the corny side. But it doesn't mean that anything will do. You have to carefully check the sound you're throwing in you hip hop track for any signs of "cornyness". If it's corny, it will be instantly recognized and you will be chastised accordingly. LOL. I"m not joking though.

Quote:

But always try to used a 70s breakloop as basis for beats

Why are you giving this advice? As much as I like 70's sound personally, it's only a small part of modern hip hop.

Quote:

And if you really need a couple of suggestions, then try Discovery, and I read that you use Reason,well, malstrom and subtractor can cover your needs, belive it or not

I think Malstrom is an amazing sounding synth, maybe more suited to sound fx than hip hop leads or basses. A lot of it's sounds are less than musical I think, but I really like it anyway. Subtractor is really useable in the hands of someone who can really program it. That won't be me and I think the original poster is not very interested in programming it. I'm gonna look at the Disco DSP myself though. I completely overlooked it due to it's ridiculous name and it's logo. There's too much junk circulating the net and we must have some way of weeding out the crap and wasting time. DiscoDSP was a dead ringer for being overlooked.

1st., No rules, that's true, because, when I say that every synth can be hiphop, that is true, and then I'm not talking about the presets, but sound, general.

2nd. Cornyness is something that you should check for yourself.

3rd. I added a grin, so I didn't really mean it seriously, thought you took that, but obviously not, sorry, my bad

4. Since it almost doesn't exist any pure hiphop synths, then I gave him a advice on synths, in general, that MIGHT work for him.

Hmmm.. interesting conversation here. In short, I agree with the idea that there are no rules. I grew up on this stuff. From the moment my brother brought home the first Sugarhill releases in '79 up until about '94 (before the big crossover into the mainstream... at which point I call the majority of this new crap PopHop).

Initially, when I think hiphop... I think samples. That means, hitting up loads of shops, and diggin' for vinyl. You want a sick bassline, dig for one. Find it deep down under a stack of dusty records in the $.99 cent bin. Layer a synth underneath to beef it up. Finding those little gems (riffs, drums loops, etc) that are so sick and that everyone else has slept on is what hop hip used to be about IMO.

With that in mind, I think part of the problem with hiphop today is that it's so mainstream now, that everyone wants to just plugin the formula. They want the hiphop synths, the hiphop sample cd's, the hiphop this and that. What garbage... the magic of hiphop was the fact that folks MADE something FROM NOTHING! That means using things in ways you aren't s'posed to.. to CREATE something.

Be creative! It's the #1 thing lacking from hiphop today.. and jumping into the formula makes you just like all the rest. WACK!

safeaim wrote:

1st., No rules, that's true, because, when I say that every synth can be hiphop, that is true, and then I'm not talking about the presets, but sound, general. 2nd. Cornyness is something that you should check for yourself. 3rd. I added a grin, so I didn't really mean it seriously, thought you took that, but obviously not, sorry, my bad 4. Since it almost doesn't exist any pure hiphop synths, then I gave him a advice on synths, in general, that MIGHT work for him.

I'm not taking it seriously. No problem.

ModuLR wrote:

Hmmm.. interesting conversation here. In short, I agree with the idea that there are no rules.

I should probably have said there are rules if you want to be successful at it. I do think that there are rules to any form of music. The rules are governed by different things. In the case of hip hop, the rules are governed by a certain cultural understanding. If one is not familiar with that, then he will probably make mostly junk which is nevertheless, hip hop. *shrugs shoulders* Sure it's hip hop but... Anyway, there are definately rules and those rules may be regional as well as cultural. Synthwise, you could get away with a lot more in the "Dirty South" than you could up here in the NorthEast. On the West Coast, a lot of hip hop is melodic and more closely related to traditional R&B. That music uses rather specific synth sounds mixed with a good amount of live instrumentation and has deep roots in old funk music. Up here hip hop would more easily fit into the category of "beats". Synths are something which must be approached very carefully to avoid sounding too "synthy".

Quote:

Initially, when I think hiphop... I think samples. That means, hitting up loads of shops, and diggin' for vinyl. You want a sick bassline, dig for one. Find it deep down under a stack of dusty records in the $.99 cent bin. Layer a synth underneath to beef it up. Finding those little gems (riffs, drums loops, etc) that are so sick and that everyone else has slept on is what hop hip used to be about IMO.

That kind of hip hop is making a come back I think. I like that kind of stuff myself. I don't personally do a lot of sampling because I don't want to be bothered with clearing samples or having huge chunks carved out of my loot. But I do love sample based hip hop.

Quote:

With that in mind, I think part of the problem with hiphop today is that it's so mainstream now, that everyone wants to just plugin the formula. They want the hiphop synths, the hiphop sample cd's, the hiphop this and that. What garbage... the magic of hiphop was the fact that folks MADE something FROM NOTHING! That means using things in ways you aren't s'posed to.. to CREATE something.

Haha. That's true. But hopefully somehow, people will begin to hate the garbage we hear everyday and start to put hip hop to better use. As an art form, it's potentially very powerful. Like poetry with the force of the music behind it. But the current subject matter is truly a shame. There are at least 4 mainstream hip hop acts who've spoken out against this in their records and those records are getting airplay. It's a good sign that things may be about ready to change.

Quote:

Be creative! It's the #1 thing lacking from hiphop today.. and jumping into the formula makes you just like all the rest. WACK!

It's the reason my current setup is still all "soft". I fear that if I go out and buy a triton, my music will sound exactly like everyone else who uses a Triton. Right now, I think I have a sort of edge in that my setup is purely software. If I had a Triton, I'd use the same presets everyone else uses. Sometimes I go into Sam Ash and hear one of the employees playing a beat which is exactly the same beat as some popular rap record. Exactly the same!

My advice is to be careful about the advice you take. If you make your sound too narrow, then your songs will be very dated. How many artists have made it big because they DID NOT bring anyting new or different? Don't play it too safe, and don't worry about someone saying "use this and only this or you will be corny." You have to wonderif these people would reject 90% of what hip-hop as based on.

Robert

i don't have a problem with the use of synths in hip hop. in fact, i'm glad as hell timbaland changed the game for good. let's be real here, hip hop is the only form of "mainstream" or "pop" music that is pushing things forward. and more specifically, dirty south has been ahead of the game for quite a while now. i've been on outkast's nuts for probably 4 years or so now and they still catch me off guard - AND they have critical *and* commercial success. all while having sick production and lyrics. what more could you ask for?

they're almost the radiohead of hip hop, pushing things forward, yet selling tons of albums, and having the critics love them.

hats off, fellas.

I'd say if you're looking for older sounds, check out something like the Oddysee. FM7 is really good as well (I just bought this for the home studio, and it is fantastic, even transferred sounds from my DX7S into it).

If you're looking at a budget, though, check out a variety of the freeware stuff out there. LinPlug's FreeAlpha sounds a lot like the old Roland Juno stuff and is fully programmable. There's a free version of PlugSound that you can download to get an idea of how good it works and sounds in your system. ReFX's Claw has its charms for analogue-style. Cheeze Machine is great for those old-school string synths.

My advice to every person setting out to do electronic music,regardless of idiom,is to experiment with open ears,find the synths and other tools that sound good to you,and whose workflow you are comfortable with.Ergonomics must never be underestimated.And sometimes a synth's approach to doing it's thing,or it's quirks or limitations can take you into a world of creative potential that you wouldn't have otherwise.
Then,just be yourself.Think for yourself,and create music that makes sense to you as a listener of music;music that you and your friends with the same tastes would like,but don't try too hard to be trendy,or idiomatically conformist.
I concur with those who have said that the first rule is that there are no rules.When I was a teenager in the '70's,rap and punk both emerged as grass-roots rebel music,and I embraced both.It was for us at the time about creativity and thinking outside of the box.It was about doing what you could with what you had,turning limits into adavantages,and being entrepenurial against the corporate music establishment.Now both are to an unfortunately large extent just marketing categories among the other conformist youth subcultures,and hip-hop is a multi-billion dollar business with all the lameness,greed and conservatism that would be expected from that.The tragedy of contemporary pop culture in general,and hip-hop in particular,is,in my opinion,the waste of human potential represented by the sheer energy people put into squeezing themselves into little boxes because they think that it's what they're supposed to do to be cool,or get rich and famous.If you play your music from the heart,and are creative and honest about running your business,you will find an audience,and your place in the world.
I would tend to agree with those posters who have said that any synth can be a hip-hop synth;notwithstanding your expressed disinterest in programming it is all in how you use the instrument.Remember what I first said about listening with open ears.The most important thing a musician can do is listen,and learn to make the instrument their own.Overdependency on presets,and "flavor of the month" presets designed to sound like what's selling now is a one-way ticket to bland and stale music.

If you re just about presets and don t want to learn to program a synth why don t you just buy sample cds instead ?
what s the point of getting a synth for a couple presets ? it s obivous that you won t find any synth that is only for hiphop... but they are hundreds of AKAI and stuff just for that...
sounds out of the box are called samples...synths are for programming

Dktr Headache wrote:

sounds out of the box are called samples...synths are for programming

at least SOMEONE sees the point.

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff?

Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

and with that, you, my friend, have proven yourself to be a true moron.

Come on children play nice.

There's always scope for improvement in any genre, and there's no such thing as a hip-hop synth. Grab some freeware and learn to program some patches.

Have fun

Jeeezus! I shouldn't be laughing but that was sharp as a knife!

crazed one wrote:

Jeeezus! I shouldn't be laughing but that was sharp as a knife!

Hey crazed one. You laughing at my comment or inginers?

at inginers. (guess I should have made that clear)



I know that wasn't appropriate for him to say but I have a darker sense of humor I guess. I'm still laughing by reading it. It's just so direct to the point. A 0-60 flame I guess one could say.

I'm not promoting flaming though.

crazed one wrote:

at inginers. (guess I should have made that clear) I know that wasn't appropriate for him to say but I have a darker sense of humor I guess. I'm still laughing by reading it. It's just so direct to the point. A 0-60 flame I guess one could say. I'm not promoting flaming though.

I thought it was pretty funny. You can't go making massive generalisations like "there's nothing new to be done in that genre". Thats just crap! And those sorts of replies are always funny, i love that kind of abrasive, funny response!

Actually, I have to ask Jonas:

You are joking right? Because reading back on that now, it seems way too general to be a real response from a rational person.

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

This is the stupidest thing I've read in months around here.

Pick up Fruity loops. It comes with tons of sounds and some great sounding synths. and a good soundfont player and basic sampler.

With all the soundfonts available out there you should have no problem finding new sounds.

Check out the demo. It can also be loaded as a vsti if yiou already have a host.

Mush

p.s

Quote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

Speak for yourself dude. That's like saying there's nothing more to be done in music..so lets all hang up our gear and play old songs.

Armadillo wrote:

I haven't tried myself but Plugsound vol. 4 Hip hop / R'n'B toolkit is certainly trying to do what you want to do.

i whole heartedly recommend this excellent synth

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

huh? wtf was that all about

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

I thought this tosspot had fucked off to make some music with his, 'million selling', 'pro' mates.

Jonas wrote:

My head is so far up my ass i can hear myself chewing .

yeh we need more original fresh music like this

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=412216&highlight=#412216

there is nothing new to made ?

you may as well quit now, it's not just about being new it's about making music, let the listner decide if there board not jumped up producers.

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

Aye.

http://www.bolina.hsb.se/hsidor/jonas-engquist/lars%20-%20jag%20stanna r.mp3

Proper music in a jonas styleeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

why did he write a tune about a stairlift

"Frankly, I loved it" - a critic.

jonas,see me after the show

Quote:

Armadillo wrote: I haven't tried myself but Plugsound vol. 4 Hip hop / R'n'B toolkit is certainly trying to do what you want to do. i whole heartedly recommend this excellent synth

So do I, much respect to Plugsound 4 and only £79.95!

6.

Quote:

I know that wasn't appropriate for him to say but I have a darker sense of humor I guess. I'm still laughing by reading it. It's just so direct to the point. A 0-60 flame I guess one could say.

nah - no flame.

as andre 3000 would say, "i'm just being honest." and it was intended to be somewhat humorous.

Quote:

Quote: Armadillo wrote: I haven't tried myself but Plugsound vol. 4 Hip hop / R'n'B toolkit is certainly trying to do what you want to do. i whole heartedly recommend this excellent synth So do I, much respect to Plugsound 4 and only £79.95!

I would have to say that Plugsound vol. 4 is by far the least impressive in the USB catalog. There's some decent drumsamples in there, though most of them sound very digital, in the not-so-good way! (It's too eighties-like, clean and overproduced with effects, to give you the gritty feel that hip-hop needs.) That's about the drums.

The rest of the patches in Plugsound 4 are absolutely useless in my productions. I mean the guitars, the rhodes, and the bass's They are pretty bad compared to the usual quality of Plugsound.

Futhermore I don't think the concept of "Construction Kits" is all that wonderful either. Not very flexible, and those kits are an instant guarantee that you will be producing music, that sounds like all other people producing with Plugsound 4.

Why do you call it a "Synth" ? It's simply a module with sounds you cannot change very much.

I would NOT recommend Plugsound 4

Otherwise this thread is full of wisdom.

dönkey tügger wrote:

Jonas wrote: My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops. I thought this tosspot had fucked off to make some music with his, 'million selling', 'pro' mates.

If that were the case he woldn't be here tearing down someone else, he'd be trying to do something positive to increase his status.

If you can't help, don't hurt. That's my motto in life.

And yeah like I said before, Plugsound 4 - Hip Hop n RnB is 'all that n a bag of chips'. I was skeptical about it at first but I've found the sounds very usable and my engineer friend says they sit well in a mix. The drum programming is pretty good too. I don't usually use loops but i've used some from this. The intro drum loop I used in my entry in the December competion is from this plugin/module. Heavy!!!!! U dun kno!

Lady J
(who really is working with someone who really -HAS- sold a million records and is a pro )

oh yeah... uh, great.

I guess blings are in order.

inginer wrote:

i don't have a problem with the use of synths in hip hop. in fact, i'm glad as hell timbaland changed the game for good. let's be real here, hip hop is the only form of "mainstream" or "pop" music that is pushing things forward. and more specifically, dirty south has been ahead of the game for quite a while now. i've been on outkast's nuts for probably 4 years or so now and they still catch me off guard - AND they have critical *and* commercial success. all while having sick production and lyrics. what more could you ask for? they're almost the radiohead of hip hop, pushing things forward, yet selling tons of albums, and having the critics love them. hats off, fellas.

One thing about Outkast is that they draw from a lot of underound dance music. They were big into Drum n Bass when they put out Bombs Over Bagdad and when they are in the UK they're always hitting Drum n Bass, Garage and Funky House clubs. I think they get a lot of ideas from this music. Its all in how you use an influence that makes it 'corny' or not.

I mean look at Eminem using Dido or Aerosmith(!?) That is about as cornball idea as I can think of however it works in the context of the song....

Just something else to consider.

I can't wait till I hear hip hop influenced by The Prodigy, one of the most underated underground bands of the last decade.

The safest route is never the route to a number one

ThomasStudioM wrote:

Quote: Quote: Armadillo wrote: I haven't tried myself but Plugsound vol. 4 Hip hop / R'n'B toolkit is certainly trying to do what you want to do. i whole heartedly recommend this excellent synth So do I, much respect to Plugsound 4 and only £79.95! I would have to say that Plugsound vol. 4 is by far the least impressive in the USB catalog. There's some decent drumsamples in there, though most of them sound very digital, in the not-so-good way! (It's too eighties-like, clean and overproduced with effects, to give you the gritty feel that hip-hop needs.) That's about the drums. .

I'm sorry but have you listened to any Hip Hop lately?

You will be hard pressed to find "gritty dirty drums"

Ever since, TImbaland/She'skpear/Neptunes/Missy Elliot burst on the scene in the 90s they have defined hip hop by NOT using old breakloops so much as cut up very clean, very digital drum sounds. Even old producers like Dr. Dre swtiched.

Examples:
Work It - Missy Elliot
Milkshake - Kelis
Who We Be - Nas
Nearly anything Eminem has done


The new trend in Hip Hop is actual live drums, but these are often processed to sound nearly digital (like an Alesis SR-16 with a human triggering the sounds.)

Examples:

Where is the Love - Black Eyed Peas
I Like The Way - Outkast
Nearly anything by THe Roots

Lady J wrote:

Milkshake - Kelis

Mmmmmmilkshake! Thanks for reminding me of this. I just jumped over to the Arista website so I can watch this video again!

When I turn away from the images, I can focus on the sounds... this actually sounds like (fake) bongos with a deep kick, a simple hihat and the odd bell. Very simple, very clean and very effective.

Lady J wrote:

One thing about Outkast is that they draw from a lot of underound dance music. They were big into Drum n Bass when they put out Bombs Over Bagdad and when they are in the UK they're always hitting Drum n Bass, Garage and Funky House clubs. I think they get a lot of ideas from this music. Its all in how you use an influence that makes it 'corny' or not. I mean look at Eminem using Dido or Aerosmith(!?) That is about as cornball idea as I can think of however it works in the context of the song.... Just something else to consider. I can't wait till I hear hip hop influenced by The Prodigy, one of the most underated underground bands of the last decade. The safest route is never the route to a number one

of course they draw from "underground" dance music. but a lot of the ideas are quite original too. and as far as eminem using dido or aerosmith... that's not on the same plane. that's "let's use a really good melody from a song almost everybody knows and then i'll put my rap over it, people will love it!" outkast may get IDEAS from other tracks, but they don't blatantly sample a whole song and just rap over it. please don't tell me you equate these. eminem is quite over-hyped, even if some of his lyrics *are* pretty funny. and you don't have to cite recent examples like "the way you move" to hear outkast's experimentation. you can see traces of it back on ATLiens and Aquemini. andre was just destined to become weirder and weirder, and big boi funkier and funkier.

and... timbaland just rules. flat out. there's no producer i'd rather do a hip hop track with. dre's gonna learn soon he has to put those synth strings away and get a new trick.

inginer wrote:

dre's gonna learn soon he has to put those synth strings away and get a new trick.

Dre uses live orchestras not synth strings.

inginer wrote:

and as far as eminem using dido or aerosmith... that's not on the same plane. that's "let's use a really good melody from a song almost everybody knows and then i'll put my rap over it, people will love it!"

Does anyone remember when these singles were released? I remember hearing "Stan" on the radio LONG before I ever heard Dido's song. Maybe that was because of different release dates in North America and the UK... Over here it seemed as though it was the Eminem song that allowed Dido to become known!

pough wrote:

inginer wrote: and as far as eminem using dido or aerosmith... that's not on the same plane. that's "let's use a really good melody from a song almost everybody knows and then i'll put my rap over it, people will love it!" Does anyone remember when these singles were released? I remember hearing "Stan" on the radio LONG before I ever heard Dido's song. Maybe that was because of different release dates in North America and the UK... Over here it seemed as though it was the Eminem song that allowed Dido to become known!

Dido had been around for quite awhile and that song Thank You had been out for awhile, that's how Marshall heard it...

It may seem the reverse in the US but I assure ya thats how it happened. Dido was known in the UK long before the US.

AD80 wrote:

inginer wrote: dre's gonna learn soon he has to put those synth strings away and get a new trick. Dre uses live orchestras not synth strings.

as far as i'm aware he's used both.

I think I'm just completely dillusional with the current state of hiphop. When I think hiphop, I think lyricist, breakin', graf, beats, and turntablism.. NOT BLING.

I got respect for outkast and what not because they are pushing new directions... but for the most part 95% of this blinghop is garbage.

Hiphop is what got me into classic rock, jazz, punk, etc.. and from there my appreciation for music just grew. Seeing it get derailed like it is currently hurts.. cos it inspired me to be open to so much.. and of all the doors I want close.. it's hiphop. how shitty is that?

when I think hiphop, I think Pharoah Monche, GangStarr, Dialated Peoples, DJ Shadow, Invisible Skratch Picklz, Roots, Jurassic 5, Heiroglyphics, MF Doom, Aesop Rock, RJD2, etc. Hmmmm.. oh well.. I've left tons out (especiall the old stuff.. Rakim, BDP, PE, etc)

Sorry.. tangent..

ModuLR wrote:

when I think hiphop (at least for relatively current people), I think Pharoah Monche, GangStarr, Dialated Peoples, DJ Shadow, Invisible Skratch Picklz, Roots, Jurassic 5, Heiroglyphics, MF Doom, Aesop Rock, RJD2, etc. Hmmm... oh well... Sorry.. tangent..

that's no tangent, good post there

it's true that if you really wanna see hip hop pushed forward you have to look to quannum, def jux, anticon, etc... (and earlier on... rawkus). but i mentioned outkast because they are an amazing example of succeeding on ALL fronts. as i'm sure you already know, the aforementioned artists are still relatively underground. outkast manage to somewhat keep that credibility while hitting big sales and critical acclaim. astounding for a hip hop group. and i don't think they've compromised much at all. in fact, if anything, andre risked losing a lot of fans (and probably DID lose a few) by experimenting the way he did on his side.

Quote:

and... timbaland just rules. flat out. there's no producer i'd rather do a hip hop track with. dre's gonna learn soon he has to put those synth strings away and get a new trick.

Of course it's just opinion, but I'm gonna have to side with Dre. I've never been much of a fan of Timbaland. Especially in the beginning when everything he did was 900 bpm. Dre's prodution on the other hand has a lot of "real" instrumentation like a lot of production from the West Coast. I can appreciate that more, probably because I'm not so young anymore. And I think (I hope) that's the future of hip hop). Along with a 180 degree change in the lyrical content. I'd like to see hip hop become a force for good, not filth. It has so much potential to be useful music, but until people want it, it probably won't happen.

Quote:

It has so much potential to be useful music, but until people want it, it probably won't happen

we can agree to disagree on timbaland/dre --- i like some of dre's production too, for the record. but this statement is key.

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff?.

I just gotta say it ... this is perhaps the most narrow-minded statement i've ever read from someone who calls themselves an artist. the lack of perception is pretty astonishing.

( Edit : Just read the whole thread and noticed that about a thousand of you feel the same way)

inginer wrote:

AD80 wrote: inginer wrote: dre's gonna learn soon he has to put those synth strings away and get a new trick. Dre uses live orchestras not synth strings. as far as i'm aware he's used both.

uhh everybody uses synth strings including timbo. But Dre doesnt use synthesized or sampled strings to pass them off as real, he has real musicians come in and handle that. Its one of the things that sets him appart. Matter fact he doenst even make much music any more, he has a team of people making music and he just stamps his name on it .

To make Hip-Hop, use this list:

1)FL Studio Producer Edition (make beats)
2)FM7 (if you like programming, this should be your only multi-purpose synth)
3)Pro-53 (synthbass & FX are a must)
4)Sampletank 2 (I'm saving money to buy this myself. It helps to have ready to use presets to make tracks a little faster)
5)Lounge Lizard EP-2 (a lot of eletric piano presets to play with even before you tweak any of them)

inginer wrote:

Quote: It has so much potential to be useful music, but until people want it, it probably won't happen we can agree to disagree on timbaland/dre --- i like some of dre's production too, for the record. but this statement is key.

TRY THIS:

Dr. Dre makes his beats simple and funky.

Timberland makes his beats complex, funky, and out there.

But The Neptunes are the wildcards. They so altervative, they can do almost anything you ask of them (just like Prince).

Jonas wrote:

My advice would be not to make any hip-hop and/or rap at all. There's nothing new to be done in that genre; you'll just be copying other people and everyone will think you're boring. Also, rap is an excuse for an enormous amount of people without any musical skills whatsoever to try to get some attention. If you can't make real music, then why don't you just listen to what the real artists have already done, instead of boring everyone with home-made wannabe stuff? Anyway, real hiphoppers dont use synths; they use samples and loops.

I have 2 reasons why you're dead wrong:

1)OutKast
2)The Black Eye Peas

With synths, samplers, or live band, they are making new hip-hop music. Go buys their albums and listen hard.

TonyVanDam wrote:

I have 2 reasons why you're dead wrong: 1)OutKast 2)The Black Eye Peas With synths, samplers, or live band, they are making new hip-hop music. Go buys their albums and listen hard.

good ones, tho i don't much care for BEP. i've got more reasons:

antipop consortium, missy, nappy roots, dose one, prefuse 73, cannibal ox, dabrye... come on now.

9th wonder produced a track on the Jay-z black album. And he uses nothing but FL.

inginer wrote:

dabrye

Ha! Was listening to "Won" while i read your post. Great simple track

i kinda like jive bunny,that is some DOPE cut n paste

I think that there is some great hiphop out there. Unfortunately there is also loads of dull, uninspired, gangster-rap horseshit. All this stuff does is give blokes who act like arseholes a big ego, makes them think that violence is good, treating women like shit is good etc

Sorry to moan, i just really hate all that crap. Gives a genre that has seen some truly great innovators a bad name.

vurt - jive bunny rules

quincy wrote:

I think that there is some great hiphop out there. Unfortunately there is also loads of dull, uninspired, gangster-rap horseshit. All this stuff does is give blokes who act like arseholes a big ego, makes them think that violence is good, treating women like shit is good etc

Uhh rap doesnt dictate what happens in society, society dictates what happens in rap. Raps just a reflection of what goes on. If you grow up in a gang infested, violent area and thats all you've ever seen since you were little, what the hell are you supposed to rap about?

think the point is a lot of rappers dont or didnt grow up like that
the ones that did fair enough,but they have soul in their tunes and i believe thats what counts

AD80 wrote:

quincy wrote: I think that there is some great hiphop out there. Unfortunately there is also loads of dull, uninspired, gangster-rap horseshit. All this stuff does is give blokes who act like arseholes a big ego, makes them think that violence is good, treating women like shit is good etc Uhh rap doesnt dictate what happens in society, society dictates what happens in rap. Raps just a reflection of what goes on. If you grow up in a gang infested, violent area and thats all you've ever seen since you were little, what the hell are you supposed to rap about?

Sorry, but you honestly believe all these bling-bling gangsta rappers are genuinely from that background? I somehow don't think so. Some of them rap like their whole life is one long gang fight. I just don't believe it. I think its an image some of them like to have.

And of course music doesn't dictate society, but it influences people, especially the young. Not exactly a good influence is it, all this shit about being a pimp and being violent.

Nothing personal AD80, just my opinion mate

This is an age old question:

Does art imitate society or does society imitate art?

The answer is both.


And the negative things cited in rap, ie: dunken/drugged hedonism, pursuit of wealth, violence, and mistreatment of women have been around long before rap both in society AND in art. Most recently in 80s Hair Metal. Nothing new here. Different soundtrack, different colours, same message.

Disaffected youth will always be creating this stuff, whether it is metal, rap or nosebleed tekno.

Lady J wrote:

This is an age old question: Does art imitate society or does society imitate art? The answer is both. And the negative things cited in rap, ie: dunken/drugged hedonism, pursuit of wealth, violence, and mistreatment of women have been around long before rap both in society AND in art. Most recently in 80s Hair Metal. Nothing new here. Different soundtrack, different colours, same message. Disaffected youth will always be creating this stuff, whether it is metal, rap or nosebleed tekno.

Thats all good points you made there Lady J, but i still think rap/hiphop has a tendency to focus on some of those things a lot more than other genres. You have to admit a lot of mainstream hiphop has some very negative messages. I have to say that most of the techno, metal, dance and other stuff i listen to doesn't have that stuff in it. But in all fairness, i suspect you are older and have more experience of music than me

metal taught me to bite the heads off of chickens
and to bring my daughter to the slaughter
and encouraged me to bury people in my backyard


all of which i did and got no returns so i aint fallin into that buy a gun get the girls crap

once bitten

quincy wrote:

But in all fairness, i suspect you are older

run now while you still have legs
if you take one thing with you its this

do not ever say that to a woman

there it is again - ask sleek - he lived in Compton for years. spend the best days of his life down there - then again he had his arse protected by the bloods or the cribs .. then again he is one of the most gangsterous pimps you will ever meet on the web.
and he always carries two shiny handguns

its that old discussion again - lets leave it
snoop dog is just as much a stereotype of himself as gene Simmons is (for instance) people want to idolise morons - always been that way - if its not donalds duck it is the hulk if its not the hulk it is dre

production wise - hip-hop falls back on the same patterns - its not so interesting. The sound is very cool and great artists like kruder and dorfmeister for instance came out of that hip-hop cradle as for which vsti fits which music style ? all vsti`s fit all music styles. And the way you use them gives you your unique stamp.

vurt wrote:

metal taught me to bite the heads off of chickens and to bring my daughter to the slaughter and encouraged me to bury people in my backyard all of which i did and got no returns so i aint fallin into that buy a gun get the girls crap once bitten

Good lad vurt, we needed a bit of humour here mate!

quincy wrote:

vurt wrote: metal taught me to bite the heads off of chickens and to bring my daughter to the slaughter and encouraged me to bury people in my backyard all of which i did and got no returns so i aint fallin into that buy a gun get the girls crap once bitten Good lad vurt, we needed a bit of humour here mate!

who's jokin

Emerald Tablet wrote:

there it is again - ask sleek - he lived in Compton for years.

So did I!

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/neighbourhood/crompton/

Straight outta crompton, pie eaters with attidude.

Wasn't that Trumpton?

donkey tugger wrote:

Emerald Tablet wrote: there it is again - ask sleek - he lived in Compton for years. So did I! http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/neighbourhood/crompton/ Straight outta crompton, pie eaters with attidude.

aye pie n peas
now thats blingbling

donkey tugger wrote:

Emerald Tablet wrote: there it is again - ask sleek - he lived in Compton for years. So did I! http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/neighbourhood/crompton/ Straight outta crompton, pie eaters with attidude.

amusing

quincy wrote:

Lady J wrote: This is an age old question: Does art imitate society or does society imitate art? The answer is both. And the negative things cited in rap, ie: dunken/drugged hedonism, pursuit of wealth, violence, and mistreatment of women have been around long before rap both in society AND in art. Most recently in 80s Hair Metal. Nothing new here. Different soundtrack, different colours, same message. Disaffected youth will always be creating this stuff, whether it is metal, rap or nosebleed tekno. Thats all good points you made there Lady J, but i still think rap/hiphop has a tendency to focus on some of those things a lot more than other genres. You have to admit a lot of mainstream hiphop has some very negative messages. I have to say that most of the techno, metal, dance and other stuff i listen to doesn't have that stuff in it. But in all fairness, i suspect you are older and have more experience of music than me

Go listen to Guns n Roses, Ratt, and other 80S 'Hair Metal' then pair that with the outrageous overtop videos and you will see where rappers like P-Diddy got the idea for 'bling videos' with girls and champagne in a hot tub. ripping up hotel rooms etc...


this is rock

make no mistake

because they are black people for the most part does not change that fact,

the rap attitude = the 80s rock attitude paired with ghetto deprivation.

now after you watch all the videos, start watching old mafia films like the Godfather, and the blaxploitation films of the 70s. both of which glorified violence and influenced a young Quinten Tarantino to do films in the 90s like Resivour Dogs and Jackie Brown. around the same time he was being influenced to create violent films other kids, black kids were looking out their ghetto tenaments, and listening to Grandmaster Flash's - The Message and sayin, 'lets take it even futher'

so you got Public Enemy (on the political side)
and NWA (on the gangster side)


So long as conditions exist as they do in the urban ghettos of the world there will always be a market for violent music, drinking songs and songs about women.

I hate it as much as anything but that is reality and you will find that amongst any disenfrancised group. Whether its violent danchall reggae, some bhangra, jihadi music, or gangsta rap...

vurt wrote:

metal taught me to bite the heads off of chickens and to bring my daughter to the slaughter and encouraged me to bury people in my backyard all of which i did and got no returns so i aint fallin into that buy a gun get the girls crap once bitten

twice shy

Thats fair enough Lady J, i don't doubt you're right. Its mainly the glamourisation of violence that worries me, but there's not a lot i can do about it except not buy the records. Thats the power of being a consumer, whre you DON'T put your money.

vurt wrote:

quincy wrote: But in all fairness, i suspect you are older run now while you still have legs if you take one thing with you its this do not ever say that to a woman

i excersised a great amount of restraint. i then realised he is probably a 14 year old child who does not know any better.

Lady J wrote:

vurt wrote: quincy wrote: But in all fairness, i suspect you are older run now while you still have legs if you take one thing with you its this do not ever say that to a woman i excersised a great amount of restraint. i then realised he is probably a 14 year old child who does not know any better.

Hold the phone. I said "older" not "old". If you are 24 then you are older than me. Just. 14 year old child indeed

altho back to lady js earlier suggestion of roots manuva-classic beats and rhymes
and yes we the british are guilty of tosh like the big brovaz so solid and so on but we do have a few good offerings
markb and blade
aim
herbaliser(altho im not actually sure where theyre/hes from)mr.scruff-not strictly hip hop but funky
and many more

I think Vurt is actually in his late 40's. That makes Lady J, ummm, .....

Robert

quincy wrote:

14 year old child indeed

your a 14 year old doctor of phorensic science wow

Rabid wrote:

I think Vurt is actually in his late 40's. That makes Lady J, ummm, ..... Robert

what
muthafukka
ill pop a cap in your ass
i aint even 30
ya bastard

vurt wrote:

quincy wrote: 14 year old child indeed your a 14 year old doctor of phorensic science wow

No you fool i'm saying i'm NOT 14! I'm 23.

just cos your a 14 year old doctor little mr doogie howser doesnt mean you can call me a fool

vurt wrote:

just cos your a 14 year old doctor little mr doogie howser doesnt mean you can call me a fool

Doogie howser! I like it vurt Jack klugman as Quincy was way better than whoever played that little shit!

vurt wrote:

altho back to lady js earlier suggestion of roots manuva-classic beats and rhymes and yes we the british are guilty of tosh like the big brovaz so solid and so on but we do have a few good offerings markb and blade aim herbaliser(altho im not actually sure where theyre/hes from)mr.scruff-not strictly hip hop but funky and many more

SO GLAD you said this vurt.
To add to the list:

GREAT BRITISH HIP HOP

Roots Manuva
Black Twang
Damage (ok more RnB than hip hop hehe)
Ms Dynamite
Heartless Crew (Rap, Ragga, Garage but lyrical skills)
Genius Crew (a bit too bling for me)

and Big Brovas do deserve a mention because I look at them more like I see Nelly - PopHop

What the country is really missing is a good live hip hop act like The Roots or Black Eyed Peas.

Black eyed peas sucks, yeah I said it, that's real pop, more rnb than hiphop, black eyed peas back in 99 really sounded nice, not to commercial, not to underground, just cool to listen to

Lady J wrote:

GREAT BRITISH HIP HOP Roots Manuva .

he's cool. and i really like the clip where he goes back to his old pre-school and upsets all the kids by beating them in the games