|Author||Topic: My Hip Hop tips for you|
Posted: 5th February 2004 15:25
Just writing a few things off the top off my head that i've learned about making hip hop records as payback for the great advice i got on my last post, It seems more people make hip hop than i thought here, or atleast are interested. So anyway here goes.
hhmmm, you probably already know this stuff but maybe you find some use out of something.
I'll Start off with beats,
Beats from records/cds/mp3's, import/open the .cda file into soundforge , cool edit ,wave editor, whatever.... find a break when the beat is isolated... highlight the bass drum or snare you like and jack it! Tip: with bass drums, a highcut on a eq, will filter out a hi-hat if you dont want it there.
If you use Reason the scream noise destruction device is good for adding grit to a beat, if you want more of a lofi sound off it,
When you can't get the beat really banging even after eqing/processing try layering some tr-808/909 samples playing at the same time. Sometimes you can hear the phase from the 2 samples being out of sync. but somehow with the tr drum sounds this doesnt seem to happen very often and the effect is surprisingly good alot of the time. So if you dont have any tr samples maybe get some, there free on the net everywhere.... And remember a better solution if you have reason and rebirth is to rewire rebirth to reason ... via the rebirth input machine
While staying on Reason for the moment, I had issues with rex beats because i write most my tunes at a bpm of around 160 compared to the obvious 90(approx) for hip hop.... if you've lost me! I'll make an example: the bass drum at 1 and the snare at 9 rather that bass 1 snare 5 bass 9 snare 13... on a 16 pattern drum machine(redrum) you get me? Well the problem i had with rex beats was there all for about 90bpm songs. And with no resolution switch on the rex player this is a problem when auditioning beats. Theres no way to audition drum beats in this drum signiture because theres no resolution but if you want to use a beat of say 93bpm rex loop and you're writing you're song wit a tempo of say 160bpm. PRESS THE REX NOTES TO TRACK BUTTON ON THE REX PLAYER, make sure the blocks/notes are selected in the sequencer, then go to edit change events and scale tempo and press the /2 button, that will scale the tempo by 50% and sync the beat to you're track.....
for all of you who already knew that im sorry for wasting your time, but i was kept in the dark about this for months after buying reason. And I dont wish that on anyone.
NOw FINALLY FOR SONAR USERS
MAKE THE BASIC BEAT PATTERNS YOU OFTEN USE FOR TRACKS AND MAKE SESSION DRUMMER FILES.... FOR EASY USE(consult the manual if you dont know how to do this) , AND I WAS CONTROLLING REASON's REDRUM DRUM MACHINE FROM SONARS SESSION DRUMMER WHEN REASON WAS REWIRED. ITS WAS THE BEST!
I'M JUST DYING FOR THE DAY SONAR BECOMES FULLY STABLE, BECAUSE I'm SICK OF CRASHES WITH NO RECOVERY OPTIONS... THATS WHY I USE REASON SO MUCH ITS WATER TIGHT AND HAS NEVER CRASHED ONCE SINCE I'VE HAD IT, ITS AMAZINGLY POWERFUL AND STABLE!
I'm tired, Thats about it for this time, maybe i'll do something next time on basslines?
ANY QUESTIONS JUST ASK, IM NOT ON THAT OFTEN, BUT GIVE IT A DAY , ILL BE BACK TO YE!
AND FINALLY I'D LIKE TO APPEAL TO PEOPLE TO LEAVE THERE TIPS ON BEATS, SOUNDS AND MUSIC, ETC
Posted: 6th February 2004 01:25
Thanks for taking time to post your insights groogle.
Posted: 6th February 2004 09:02
most of the musos i know are into hiphop, and thus i've seen hiphop produced on all kinds of setups.. entirely freeware softsynths, just dr-5s, et c.
(in an attempt to stem future 'what synth for *' threads..)
Posted: 6th February 2004 11:15
I agree with groogle, that more users should post production tips and tricks on this board. And to his tips I will try to add this advice: hip hop is a format that has great potential that as of late seems to have gone stagnant creatively. I remember the period from around 1991-1994 when creativity seemed to flourish in the genre. Now all we have(for the most part) is neptunes clones up north or Master P/Cash money clones down south. Maybe I am starting to see a generation gap here, but it seems that people are scared to break new ground these days.
Posted: 6th February 2004 12:44
Hip Hop is a state of mind more than anything.. that's why most white guys can't do it. And that aint a stereotype, it's true. How many DOPE white producers do you know? How many DOPE tracks have you heard composed/programmed by a white guy? But people will sit around for HOURS and type into forums that they can't find the right "sound" or can't get the "timing" right on their machines or they have weak patches to work with... when Timbaland was banging out NASTY beats on a Casio in REAL TIME without a sequencer.
Don't fool yourself, either you got the skills to bang out the beats and layer them and make them sound funky by your own ear, or you need to find another genre.
Posted: 6th February 2004 13:00
hmmmm really creep racial observation... With this way of thinking I suppose that you also mean that you have a bigger cock than white guy ?
very mature post ...
standing ovation for our friend J1GG@ everybody !
Posted: 6th February 2004 13:28
Good thing I'm only half white then, cause that means at least half of my beats will sound hip hop right? I guess the others will sound Korean though so I guess I automatically lose.
More than just few. How much do you listen to music these days? Do you think that everyone on Dr. Dre's crew is black? Do you just assume? Ever hear of Controller 7?
These people are obviously white. Don't even pay them attention then because your dick is much bigger anyways.
Posted: 6th February 2004 13:54
Wow, you are defensive... especially considering:
"Argue for your weakness and it will become yours."
Don't take it so personally. And yes, everyone MAKING the BEATS on Dre's albums are, yep, you guessed it Sparky, BLACK. The engineers and some of the musicians, yep, they are of many persuasions, but the DOPE, MEANINGFUL, HEAD-BOBBING beats aren't comin from white guys any more than windmill dunks are on TNT.
Sorry to be the bad news breaker to ya, Spark
Posted: 6th February 2004 14:04
Well, Chad Hugo from the Neptunes is asian, so I guess by Jigg's "rules" you're still half hiphop (2/4 time??)
Posted: 6th February 2004 14:16
Everything I hear coming out of this 1-dimensional wannabe knowitall irks me
Posted: 6th February 2004 14:35
Hmmm.. have you ever listened to the likes of Shadow, Cut Chemist, RJD2, El-P... c'mon man, let's be realistic here.
Posted: 6th February 2004 14:46
J1GG@, i seems to me that you know nothing about music man. i know, i know you make dope beats and all that. being an afro american it really bothers me to hear that sh!t you are talking. first and foremost music should not have a color line because the bottom line it the music. most of aretha franklin's top soul records (most of her number 1 song) were played by an all white band from memphis, tenn. did you know that. now do you think a brother created the mpc series (mpc60, mpc1000, mpc2000 etc). HELL NO. does it matter HELL NO. just make music man. i do not care and most of us here do not care if you are from mars as long as the MUSIC is tight. it is about the music not the color. question for you J1GG@ who can program a drum machine better, any of your favorite producers or phil collins. i think phil can tell all your favorite producers to sit the f&ck down.
therefore, after you pull your foot out of your month and then put it back think about what you are saying man. music is color blind. again we are musicians. peace GOD.
Posted: 6th February 2004 14:51
nicely put neverenoughfunk... I couldn't agree with you more, especially considering I'm black as well. Jigg@ is posting from a state of pure ignorance, plain and simple.
Posted: 6th February 2004 14:51
that was a dumb statement, if I ever heard one
who produced 50 cent the super star?
a white guy name marshall mathers.....oh yeah, I remember now.
Posted: 6th February 2004 15:08
come on guys why are you trying to prove that whyte guys can also do music and hiphop ? there s nothing to argue about here... Jigg@ is just a frustrated idiot without any respect...
don t drop to his level of conversation...
just let him go screw his big black faschist cock and ignore him...
What is double disapointing is that the subject of the thread was interesting...we should post more like this with our tips and tricks...
btw have you mention how often hiphop thread are being hi-jacked by a loser coming out nowhere ? what s your problem Jigg@ ?
Posted: 6th February 2004 15:16
I almost hate to see a hip hop discussion start up around here.
Posted: 6th February 2004 15:17
just letting him know that he has missed the boat. we are musician, composers and producers. if an individual has no fingers but could laid down a hellified keyboard solo sign him up. that is all. it is ashame that in 2004 there are people who think like that. musician are cool, no very cool people and J1GG@ is not one of us. very cool people. peace.
Posted: 6th February 2004 15:28
Remember that guy around 6 months ago who just popped up and started talking shit to everybody saying they're amateur toy users and he left a link to his music which was just the same old shitty beat with a shitty rhyme and rhythm with no lyrical direction. That kind of "Yo we breakin new ground" but youve heard hundreds of the same thing elsewhere, knowing you could turn that song around fresh using your toe on an Atari with Cubase?
Yeah I remember him.
Posted: 6th February 2004 17:13
Dang, such defensiveness. So what y'all are saying is that out of ALL the hiphop being made, that a handful of the producers making it are white. A handful. So what's that, MAYBE less than 1% ? 0.0001%?
I guess y'all have made my point for me. Thank you.
Hugs and kisses
Posted: 6th February 2004 20:05
Damn J1GG@! you are one stoop booy...
but you are correct, white boys cant make beats! might be cause their skin is not absorbing that magical frequency that black skin absorbs....
or so i heard that the ear of a black person is specially build to make beats..
you see i can also talk bullshit and im not even into pip pop, but i love to lay beats.. i just dress up in black when im about to do it...
(irony at it´s best)
Posted: 6th February 2004 21:02
White men can't produce hip-hop and can't play basketball.
That's okay. Black men will never be able to compose classical music.
Posted: 6th February 2004 21:48
Well, I guess I did come off as being really defensive, to you at least. Mostly I was toying around.
If Dre only deals with black people now then I stand corrected.
It's not bad news to me, just no couth on your part.
Bad news taken lightly, don't worry.
Posted: 6th February 2004 22:07
Posted: 7th February 2004 01:04
[quote="J1GG@"]Hip Hop is a state of mind more than anything.. that's why most white guys can't do it. And that aint a stereotype, it's true. How many DOPE white producers do you know? How many DOPE tracks have you heard composed/programmed by a white guy?"
Um... try Prefuse 73-- his beats blow the fucking roof off just about anything Timbaland, Dr Dre, or the Neptunes ever even dreamt of producing.
Oh yeah,,, and he's white.
Posted: 7th February 2004 01:16
Pleeeaseeeeee. This is rubbish and I'm tellin ya flat out that it is. There is no 'secret black formula' in play here. Why give these white guys an inferiority complex? Does that make YOU feel good somehow? Hip Hop is an attitude and state of MIND. there are many white producers out there producing hip hop you nutcase. Go into any pro studio lately???? Why not also add, 'how come there are no women hip hop producers' since you are generalising. A good producer moves between genres, the tunes know this. Do you think that 'innovation' comes from just making hip hop and only living and breathing hip hop? Only listening to hip hop? I can tell you for a fact the Neptunes listen to Brazilian, Salsa, Merengue, Bhangra, Ragga, Rock, Heavy Metal, Classic Soul, RnB, and likely a lot of other things i left out.
Do you think the only hip hop producers are Timb and the 'Tunes?
Your observation is like saying, 'how come there are no black physicists, Einstein and Stephen Hawking were both white.'
you tend to forget not every producer (or physicist)for that matter) is a household word and as for rappers well there have been quality white, latin and black rappers around from the Sugar Hill and Def Jam days....
I know Russian and Albanian kids who can rap and produce the hell out of a beat.
Now you even have Chinese rappers that are quality. It's not where you're from it's where your at.
I am a black/brown woman who can bust out a hip hop joint that will bust your chops. Standard. Don't test.
Posted: 7th February 2004 01:38
Well I happen to know of many black and multiracial WOMEN have contributed to classical music...
She's not a man but Alicia Keys is quite an accomplished classical pianist. As was Nina Simone. Sisseretta Jones (1868-1933), and ever hear of Leonyne Price? Only one of the most well known sopranos of our time.
As for men I happen to know that a guy named Tony Macalpine has composed many classical pieces and won many a piano competition in his youth.
And yours truly is black/multiracial and was also trained in classical music.
I don't know about deep in the heart of Texas but in the real world, music knows no bounds.
Posted: 7th February 2004 03:43
Sorry to break up the discussion and racial slander, but can I get back to the original topic.
Do we not have a description here of "how to rip off other artists"?. Lifting beats, slices or samples off records and selling it is infringement of copyright, or am I wrong?
Interesting to even have such a discussion on a forum where artists state every day how bad they feel being ripped off by record companies. Then I'm not even starting to think about all the plugin developers here who would say each day how much they hate cracks and hacks.
If this post was about software it would have been locked or deleted right away and some users would have been banned. Why are we all then so happy to learn about ripping off artists?
Changing the line here a bit, Can I ask this question: Is this really what's going on in hip hop. Does hip hop artists really base their music on ripping of beats / slices / samples from records, mp3s and Cds?
If so, I have just lost any possible grain of respect I would have had for this genre.
For the rest who actually enjoyed this thread - sorry for wasting your time with this rant.
Posted: 7th February 2004 04:04
You're wrong. People don't always clear samples, but I believe that hip hop benefits greatly the original artists who may be sampled. Sometimes completely reviving their forgotten careers or at least providing the spark. It's not about ripping off other artists. And not all hip hop is about using "samples". I might even say that most of it nowadays doesn't use samples and there's no need to. I've had commercial releases for years and still haven't bothered to release anything that has been sampled.
That's another thread altogether.
Get a clue, then come back and make a sensible remark.
Posted: 7th February 2004 04:12
Get a life mate.
I like everything you say here and I'm glad to hear the truth.
I'm refering to the topic, being a description on how to rip of samples. See the very first post in this thread.
I ask the question because I was surprised that this was presented as if ripping of artists is the norm. My statement was in relation to that question.
BTW, I do like some hip hop and even have some CDs. I do have the feeling that there are many honest hip hop artists like yourself and I am sure that the most successful ones are honest to good artists.
Posted: 7th February 2004 04:20
All art is based in quotation, rephrasing, paraphrasing and restatement and rooted in culture and history. Did Picasso rip off Manet? Did Rodin rip off Michaeangelo? Copyright was invented as a flawed and very limited, but at the time historically necessary (for capitalism anyway) solution to the problem of how an artist/inventor etc can make money from ideas in an age of mechanical and now digital reproduction. But there has always been a danger that the flaws in the concept of copyright would stand in the way of art and science and that is what is happening - in the arts and in science. There is no way that any art or science can really progress without being built on the ideas of those that went before and without free exchange and flow of culture. Hip Hop is one of the most dynamic and innovative trends within music at the moment because it is, at its best, rooted in real people's lives and experiences. It is not exclusively white/black/asian but belongs to people that are alive and in touch with their history and culture - people that are alive and have something to say (which is mainly why so much of the crap that comes out of the music industry is from people who have lost touch with that and who are just so enamoured of themselves and their money).
So much for the nonsense about not being able to compose or people of a certain ethnicity not being able to make hiphop - what is this if not people striving to articulate their lives through the medium of music and lyrics? - that is what composition is all about and hiphop is a living example of real people doing so.
Posted: 7th February 2004 04:37
hip hop is tired.
ive been listening to it for bout 20 years now.
and it has went downhill.
not to say that there isnt some good underground stuff going on but...
the popular stuff is so...hmm lets call it "corporate"
blah blah blah and on and on about money and ice.
2 bar loops over and over..subtractive sequencing.
its sooo commercial. everything has a hip hop beat behind it.
just the songs seem so disposable.
can i have a #2 whith extra bassline and hold the cymbals ...oh and a small order of bling with a side of ice....supersized.
"hip hop culture" seems really superficial.
i think there are other "corporate" powers at work
with hidden agendas..
Posted: 7th February 2004 04:46
Yes that's what I mean - people that are bought out by the music industry just go on about all their rocks and women but are no longer in touch with what made them angry and have something to say at one time.
Hip hop without the hip and hop.
But "underground" music seems to still be thriving - not just hiphop I should probably say but hiphop is just an example of a thriving musical culture. It only seems dead if you go by the images the music industry wants us to believe.
Posted: 7th February 2004 04:59
I'm gonna try to make this point without offending anybody. Forget about hip hop for a moment. Consider any form of underground music. What is at the heart of that music? Culture. If you're not a part of that culture, it's gonna be much harder for you to relate to it, let alone create the music. But Hip hop like other forms of underground music has long since gone far and wide from it's roots, when what Jigga is saying would have certainly held more water. This thread has less to do with hip hop specifically than all forms of underground music.
Jigga says most white guys can't do hip hop. It may be true because most white guys don't really listen to or care about hip hop. And most black guys can't do rock for the very same reasons. No racism here, just reality. What are my chances of being successful at traditional Indian or Arabic music? Slim to none. But, if at some point that music became as popular as Rap worldwide, then mixed with every other genre and watered down to the point that it bares little resemblance to it origins, then I might have as much chance as anyone else at being successful at it. It's no longer about Arabic culture, it's now about me and I my particular twist on that music.
That's how I believe it works. Not just for hip hop, but for any form of music.
Posted: 7th February 2004 05:06
"What does he know of cricket who only cricket knows?" - CLR James.
Elliptical or what?
Posted: 7th February 2004 05:58
False. I am not part of 'hip hop culture' but i can do a slammin hip hop joint if i have to. In fact i've done one. And will someone really describe hip hop culture?
Also this whole thread has nothing to do with instruments. Shouldn't it be in Everything Else?
Posted: 7th February 2004 07:36
I think that J1gg@s main point here was to piss of some people behind the comfort of his/her PC. So posting angry responses just feeds him/her negative energy..
Posted: 7th February 2004 08:12
It may not seem like a direct reflection of the hiphop creation and production, but the lovely Emily Lazar masters alot of Def Jux material, so before it comes out to us, that lovely caucasian woman puts the last beautiful touch to their production.
Posted: 7th February 2004 08:33
Posted: 7th February 2004 09:08
people can be white regardless of the colour of their skin. all you gotta do is start thinking white. there is absolutely nothing racist about this discrimination.. most of the memes/culture that whiteness has developed from are originally 'black' anyway, ie. egyptian.
but to speak of these temporally convenient assignments as racist is to deny understanding. there's as much truth to j1gg's statement as there is to amused or lady j's 'music/no boundarys'
to state that music is limited by skin is just as ridiculous as it is to deny that race/culture/'what is' accounts for nothing.
so please, be so kind as to extrapolate/imagine a little understanding before you condemn as false with such rude and boorish enthusiasm.
Posted: 8th February 2004 12:20
mmm.. just fits well
Posted: 8th February 2004 13:02
That's you opinion...and as always that means the statement is one part truth/one part ear gas.
But do you actually believe that j1gg share your definitions?...People here are reacting to what j1gg means, not to how you are able to interpret his statements.
That being said, a bit about what you said:
1) How can a man be white regardless of his skin colour? To think white, you say. Well, culture is summed up way of thinking amoungst many people in a specific society, but you claim there is no such thing as culture? (Or have I misunderstood you...please tell me so. I'm really trying to understand here )
2) I agree that there's a strong difference between discrimination and racism. People tend to shout racism every time someone talks about race differences.
[quote]but to speak of these temporally convenient assignments as racist is to deny understanding. there's as much truth to j1gg's statement as there is to amused or lady j's 'music/no boundarys' /quote]
That's just a statement. It would be great with an explanation why you think so. And no...it's not obvious
But please be so kind as to imagine that some people do in fact extrapolate/imagine a little understanding before condemn as false....even though not ending up with the same opinion as you.
Not looking to start a fight here.
Posted: 8th February 2004 19:41
Have you heard of a legendary hip-hop & rock producer by the name of Rick Rubin?
Posted: 8th February 2004 19:45
American funky beats & Asian Instruments does work for me nicely.
Posted: 8th February 2004 19:48
Dr. Dre has a keyboardist on payroll by the name of Mike Scott. Mike is white. And he loves to use Korg products.
Posted: 8th February 2004 20:06
First of all, you're wrong. Beethoven was half-black.
Secondly, I like some classical music. But keep is mind that some people outside of the American & European classical world would need some time to get used to listening music without drums (Africa), percussions (Latin), or vocals (universial).
Posted: 8th February 2004 20:28
[quote="Lady J"]False. I am not part of 'hip hop culture' but i can do a slammin hip hop joint if i have to. In fact i've done one. And will someone really describe hip hop culture?
Also this whole thread has nothing to do with instruments. Shouldn't it be in Everything Else?
Rap is what you do. Hip-hop is how you live.
It doesn't end there Lady J.
Hip-hop is also how you dress, sing, eat, breathe, dance, rap, scream/shout, talk, pray, play politics, have debates, play your instruments, make love and/or having sex (no, I'm not kidding), make peace/war, and (of course) enjoy life.
If anyone agrees/disagrees, please response
Posted: 8th February 2004 20:47
Posted: 8th February 2004 21:08
Posted: 8th February 2004 22:06
Anyone heard of Kraftwerk? 4 German guys who had a huge part in the birth of Hip-Hop. Akai and Roland? Two Japanese companies who also made Hip-Hop possible! African polyrhythm crossed with European and Asian melodies...? Democracy’s freedom of speech with Socialism’s need for revolution...Black Power, white trainers...
Ebony and Ivory, side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why can't we...
What we need is a great big melting pot. To take the world and all it's got. Turn out coffee coloured people...
We are the world....We are the people... We are the one's to make a better day so lets start trying....
Stop me... Please stop me....
Posted: 8th February 2004 22:12
Hey I think it was "giving" instead of "trying"
"Dear Mr. Jesus?" I'd love to find that video......
Posted: 8th February 2004 22:18
Beethoven - yeah cool guy
been watching clockwork orange again yesterday - beethoven stays fine music
but i still prefere claude or erik.
nice piece xoxos
Posted: 9th February 2004 04:24
Lady J, I am going to have to step in and defend Texas here. Here is Houston, we have a melting pot of *all* colors, creeds, religions, and musical styles. I know you prolly think that all we have is (redneck)cowboys, tumbleweeds, oil wells, and overeager presidents(yes those elements are here) but keep in mind that:
a)In Houston, Hispanics make up 37%, Whites 31%, Blacks 25%, Asians 5% of our population.
b)Austin is the *undisputed* live music capitol of the world. Last year I saw the Roots, De La, Jungle bros, among others. All of them commented on the culture of Austin being very music friendly.
c) There is a huge underground hip hop scene in houston. Rap a lot, geto boys, scarface, Lil flip, SPM , and much much more, I shouldn't need to go into detail.
d) Texas is a huge state, so there are parts that are a little "hillbilly" but I (and most other texans) steer clear of these places. There are places like that everywhere.
Posted: 9th February 2004 04:29
i may be wrong but wasnt ken kesey a texan(he was white american anyway)and as far as i remember him and the merry pranksters were some of the first people to coin the phrase rapping
it came from beat poetry i believe which while i agree stems from the jazz culture of america but it was more of a cultural breakdown thing than it is today anyway,whereas sadly these days a lot of rappers seem to be at war with outer cultures through their music
sorry if im outa line here but im mashed
Posted: 9th February 2004 04:34
Yeah actually I read Kool Aid Acid Test last year. I think he coined it in the book.
(Personally I'm more on Learys side of things. He wanted to research and experiment while Kesey just wanted to freak people out.)
Posted: 9th February 2004 04:38
im on neithers side i have my own journey to make
but they are both in their own way the forefathers of what im setting out to do
just hope i dont come out as fucked as them the other side
Posted: 9th February 2004 06:49
Nice to see some writings about the production of Hip Hop. I have been creating Hip Hop Beats for about 15 years, I still use my old Roland W30 sampler, very neat and tight slicing of the breaks, add some TVA filter and you haveyourself a real drum kit on the keyboard.
Using Mac G5 now with Logic 6, and the Mach 5 Motu sampler software, this is now the next generation of sampling, layering old school beats , direct from the vinyl is just the biz.
Still use the SL1200s for much stuff, because the LP collecton is massive, and sometimes sample CDs will not give you that extra cut of beats you are looking for.
For all lovers of Old School Mixes, and those who wish to check out the tunes on our site go to:
Lok forward to many more excellent posts.
Posted: 9th February 2004 08:08
I would have to differ with this statement very much. Austin is a hipster town (ie. San Francisco). It's not very musician-friendly because musicians can't afford to live there. It also has an incestuous music scene that seems to be based around predicting the Next Big Thing to come out of Austin. The band Fastball had moderate success with one single six years ago so now the Austin Chronicle spends an enormous amount of energy hyping bands that aren't worth hyping to the level of national attention. A few years ago Vallejo was supposed to be the Next Big Thing. Then it was Bob Schneider. Now it seems to be Los Lonely Boys.
Having seen the changes Austin has gone through from the 80s through today I have to say it's a sickening place to be if you're a musician. Most of the people who actually go to the clubs to listen to music are musicians themselves in other bands playing around town. There is also a large number of the scenesters and hangers-on. Most of the time you end up with a number drunkards annoyed by the loudness of the band more than anything.
I really wouldn't factor larger touring acts into consideration of the Austin music scene mainly because Austin doesn't get any greater number of them than any other large city. As a matter of fact, because Austin is a much smaller city than Dallas, San Antonio, or Houston, it gets way fewer touring acts through there. I can't count the number of times I had to drive to one of these other cities to see an artist because they wouldn't play Austin. This could be because of Austin's reputation for blues and country or simply because of a lack of decent venues (Austin Music Hall? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!).
If you're into electronic music Austin is especially the worst place in Texas to live except for the fact that the other three major cities in Texas are all within a three hour driving distance.
It's kind of funny how many people seem to be unfamiliar with the Houston and southern hip hop scene in general. Maybe it's because it's not so focused on the "bling" or maybe it's because it's outside of the LA/NY-centric music industry.
If anyone is really interested in exploring contemporary hip hop they would be doing themselves a disservice by ignoring this scene.
What exactly do you mean by "hillbilly" in such a negative context? Should we morph this into country-and-western bashing thread?
Posted: 9th February 2004 08:26
Small aside for historical accuracy...Ken Kesey was from Oregon. His buddy, Larry McMurtry (who never met a character he didn't like to kill off - horribly) is a Texan.
Posted: 9th February 2004 08:29
use the quote tags
and fair enough on the kesey location i did say i wasnt sure
Posted: 9th February 2004 08:58
I didn't necessarily say that the best bands come out of Austin. But, I have seen more bands the past 5 years in Austin, than my entire life in Houston, mainly because few bands I listen to ever come to Houston. Maybe Austin is becoming a hipster town, but the fact remains that I see more good bands at SXSW or just random weekends than anywhere else in Texas. As a friend of mine worked at Stubbs, we still get on the guest list of many shows, and see bands. Many of them aren't even officially touring and just down for a visit.
I really don't see Austin as being that expensive to live in either. I have several friends living in the riverside area in apartments for around 550 permonth. Not exactly the best part of town, but these aren't the ghetto.
Now, I am not really disagreeing with you that Austin has taken a turn for the worse as of late, but it is still a safe bet that if a band I want to see(and I am not really a huge hip hop fan- for the most part the Genre lost my interest after around 1996, with a few notable exceptions since then) and they only make one stop in texas, it will be austin.
Let me clarify about the hillbillies. It was not a bash against country and western music(well, possibly new country and western) but my main point was that some of the worst elements of texas that it seems to get recognized for, are localized mainly to certain areas of texas and are not any more of a problem in major cites as they are any any other major city. I have nothing against country folk, I have many friends who could be classified as such. However, I do have a problem with pickup truck drivin, rebel flag in their back window(view partially blocked by the gunrack), a sticker that says somthing to the effect of "I'd rather be cummin than a strokin'" in reference to the diesel engine in their Dodge truck, or Ain't skeeered. In my experience with folks like this, they are usually racist, and usually the people that people not from texas assume all us normal texans act like.
Posted: 9th February 2004 09:26
I just want to say this: I'm latin, and I'm proud of Being a Latin American. I personally Have been influenced by all three cultures. I grew up in a black neigborhood then moved and got to a white community and at home I was surrounded by Latin culture. I make latin music, Hip-hop/Rap/R&B/, and Rock, electronica. Pretty much anything, but country music. The magic comes when we, together, all my black, white, asian, latin and middle east friends and I, instead of arguing wether the track should be a hip-hop or rock, we try to mesh all those cultural characteristics that makes us unique and develop a style that everyone can relate to. Also some songs are hip-hop with a hard rock guitar riff on it, and some are rock songs with a hip-hop beat to it and a techno bass line. Besides, hip hop has gotten so many international influences that I wouldnt call it "black" any more, have you hear Timbalands newest beats? Arent they full of Latin percussion such as bongos and congas? Arent the riffs coming from the Punjabi Indian music? What about the mean lead sounds, that a few years ago were only found in electronic music style? What bout Nelly ft. Aereosmith guitarrist in his "#1" track with a rock riff? What about Missy Elliot ft. Nelly Furtado? Music is a universal language. Treat it like it.
Posted: 9th February 2004 10:32
I see the exact opposite of this. Houston, being an area of six million people, will always attract far more bands and a wider variety than Austin. It's just simple economics for the bands. They can either play Houston or to an audience 1/5 to 1/4 the size in Austin if they're lucky. Especially depending on what style of music they play.
I hate trying to see bands during SXSW. Most of the time the clubs are already crowded to capacity by journalists, industry-types, or wristband holders by the time you get there to see your bad. Then, if you're lucky enough to get in, your band only gets 40 minutes to play. Them's the rules. I'm always disappointed when some band I like will only come to Austin to play SXSW but otherwise wouldn't be seen there.
I hope you're buying the band's merchandise at these shows. Otherwise this isn't really supporting the artists.
But Stubb's falls under my "shitty venues" category. The inside is tiny with shit sound. The outside is a rocky hillside with shit sound. There just aren't venues in Austin that can accomodate a good-sized crowd comfortably and also provide good sound.
Not exactly the ghetto but it isn't physically far from it.
$550 is still a lot for a regularly-gigging musician. Playing around Austin isn't going to pay the bills which means you have to have a day job that is going to be friendly to a musician's schedule. This means not earning much money from the day gig as well. Then there are other expenses such as keeping bail money around when APD decides to arrest you for parking your van in front of a club on 6th St. so you can load/unload your gear. Or APD will be too busy ticketing jaywalkers on 6th St. to prevent some hoods from stealing all your gear out of your van when it's parked on the street (as happened to Sonic Youth in the mid-'90s).
Anway, it's impossible to earn a living as a musician in Austin. If you want to play music full time you have to be lucky enough to have a touring gig. (Which also means you're most likely playing someone else's music, not your own.) Most of the musicians that are associated with Austin don't actually live in Austin. They may live in the area (New Braunfels, San Marcos, etc.) but not in Austin proper.
It probably depends on what kind of music you like. But most artists will play the larger cities simply because it means a larger audience. If you want to be able to see more really bad SRV impersonators in a ten block area than anywhere else in the world then 6th St. is the place to be.
I just also have issue with the expression "Live Music Capital of the World" which the City of Austin is more than happy to parrot but not willing to support itself. They pulled all money for the Austin Music Channel which could have been a HUGE promotional tool if funded and administered properly. Unfortunately it never had the chance to be administered properly because it was facing declining funding from the City from Day 1. Also, the city should provide more help for artists and musicians in the form of affordable housing, etc. Does this sound like subsidies? Yes, it is. It should be. I see the City as a parasite on the music scene. It wants the benefits of promoting Austin as a city of music but doesn't want to pay for it.
And I don't even want to get started on the difficulties of being a club owner in Austin. People in newly-constructed lofts above 6th St. are complaining about the noise? WTF? What the hell were they expecting? Of course the City Council is following the money on this one and the surrounding hotels and property developers are greasing the palms of council members.
Sorry for the rant but all of this is part of the reason I moved to San Marcos where you can get a good one-bedroom for $350. Well, that, and the thousands of beautiful coeds walking around.
Is this different than stereotyping people because they live in a ghetto or barrio of a large city ("they're all drug dealers or thugs")? It seems to be an analogous statement. Is it okay to make broad sweeping statements about rural residents because they're white, and therefore, immune to racism?
Posted: 9th February 2004 11:01
Damn, this sucks. I read the very fist post in this thread and I got really excited to get some tips. Then it turned into a racial topic. Damn Sad.
Posted: 9th February 2004 11:09
well, I live in Houston and I check for shows, and even though there are 4 million people here you will only get major lable bands coming here to The cynthia woods pavillion ot Verizon theater. I can't offer much proof other than my own experience. Maybe it sounds crazy to you, but I don't ever see my favorite bands in Houston- they just don't come here. One example was Air, they came to Dallas and Austin, but not Houston(saw them at la zona rosa). Another example is The Eels, only Austin (at SXSW). I agree, SXSW sux, and I hate crowds, but if a band I like is playing I will brave it. As for getting free shows at stubbs, there are 20 spots available first come first serve, so if my friend gets 2 or three spots, I am going. Otherwise I buy tickets. The 11PM noise ordinance sucks, I agree. But I still don't see why you are argueing with me on this one, maybe since you are in austin, all you see is the negative. But trust me here, Houston just doesn't have it, and I know of no other town that has more shows than Austin, New York or LA in the US...
Anyway, San Marcos is about the only place in texas that you can live that cheap. I pay more than double your rent for a 1 bedroom in Houston.
Maybe you are right that it is unfair to generalize. I am only human, I may have been over exposed in College at A&M...
Posted: 9th February 2004 11:26
Pity that you feel it necessary to defend one thing by putting down another. Hilbilly music is as genuinely american as hip-hop, and can be just as interesting or boring. Listen to the first track of this bluegrass player.
Posted: 9th February 2004 11:27
I actually was not referring to any type of music with the saying hillbilly..
Posted: 9th February 2004 12:18
tuned in for tips, got BS instead. KVR is still the best forum around but lately has been suffering from way too many crap posts, hence my reluctance to post anything-I'll probably get whacked no matter what I say or how I say it 'cos of sudden influx of trollish behavoir. there are some folks here looking to cause trouble and too many willing to bite. have a little respect people, and ignor the idiots. let's talk about MUSIC!!
Posted: 9th February 2004 12:23
Funny that you can get so much out of a discussion about hiphop tips, maybe hiphop should be banned as a topic around here ? Causes to much shit
Posted: 9th February 2004 22:38
Here is a tip for those who haven't got an MPC60....But want that shuffle groove it is so famous for. Steal it!!! There are a few MPC60 midi files floating around the net . Find them and turn them into groove templates in Logic for instance. Another thing to try is making your drum hits 12 bit. The MPC60 was a 12 bit sampler.