Hi all,

I'm currently playing with Mamba v1.1, which is a programme that generates guitar rhythms in MIDI. I then import the MIDI files to FL Studio to trigger acoustic guitar samples.

Question - what's the best acoustic guitar sample / sound you know of for the purpose of rhythm (ie not lead guitar)? I bought "Real Guitars" (a cheaper subset of Pure Guitars and it has a nice 12-string, but I really want a six string. The nylon on Real Guitars just sounds muffled when "strummed", while the steel fingered / picked just ain't quite right.

Any ideas? I should add that I use Extreme Sample Converter, so I can take most formats back to DS404 (my only sampler I'm afraid).

Thanks for any advice you can offer,


Steve

Has no-one got any ideas then?

VIRTUAL GUITARIST!!!!!!!!!!

Victor Noir wrote:

VIRTUAL GUITARIST!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks... I've tried VG, but it's just a relatively small number of sampled rhythms at the end of the day. That's fine, but I want to create my own rhythms as realistically as possible. A really decent multisampled acoustic would do nicely... I think...

The Steel String on Pure Guitars sounds quite good when used with Rhythm n Chords. It has 5 velo levels.

At 128 velocity it gives a nice slide into the note.

What I do for realism is:

- Add some random velocity in the sequencer, say, from -10 to +20.

- manually edit the files, adding mod wheel vibrato to accents, and, editing velo levels to avoid repetition

- manually add velo accents to the feel of the tune it's being matched to.

- record a couple of little extra notes here and there, played from the keyboard to give variety and feel.

You can also make your own steel string sample set, maybe using one set as the core with say three velo levels. Then add another harsh sample say from 125-128 for added twang. And maybe another harder sound from 120-124. The result is a 5 velo level preset with a lot of dynamic range.

Another way to make it more interesting, or at least in RnC, is to, say, generate a midi file to an E-A-D chord sequence. Then generate another very similar. Then another similar to that. Do this ten times until you have a pool of similar but not the same riffs to work from.

In short: Don't blame the samples if your acoustic riffology isn't coming quite right. You have to work at it at every level.

Even so, it's hard to get perfect.

This one's using a homemade sample set, part cribbed from SampleTank

www.rossiterandco.com/files/Eminor.mp3 1.3mb

This is Pure Guitars

www.rossiterandco.com/files/taylorguitar.mp3 577k

Neither sound like real playing, but they create a reasonably satisfying illusion.

One last one if you're interested.

Virtual Guitar. This one apparently went on Steinie's last Canadian tour.

www.rossiterandco.com/files/VG-Choir.mp3 1.3mb

First, thanks for the reply which is very interesting.

I totally agree that the realism of the acoustic guitar you generate is as much an issue of programming as it is of the samples you use. Your sequences are really excellent, way better than anything I've done. Don't undersell how "real" they are, 9 out of 10 people wouldn't have a clue that this isn't a real guitarist.

However, what I'm trying to do is a lot simpler than this. All I want is a background acoustic playing fairly simple, strummed rhythms, for a simple poptastic tune (man... ). So the amazing "picking" you're doing isn't needed, thank God - I only get to mess about between 5am and 7am each day, inbetween getting ready for work - it would take me months even if I had the talent (which I don't).

I'm using Mamba to generate the rhythms. Have you ever tried this? It's a program that generates "rhythm guitar" sequences as midi files, and you can control the rhythm you want quite a bit. It can't generate the more sophisticated rhythms you can get in RnC, but it is more flexible in that you can create new rhythms. At least I don't think you can make new rhythms in RnC? - only tried it a couple of times, don't use Cubase or Sonar sadly.

Your point about making lots of slight variations on the same backing rhythm is interesting. That's exactly what I'm doing in Mamba, and it does give you a more "real" feel across a tune even for a backing rhythm that sets way back in the mix.

In my current experiment (aka "complete mess" ) I'm layering the 12-string acoustic guitar from Real Guitars with an electric guitar produced using Revitar and JCM9000. This sounds at least less unrealistic than I thought it might... Have you tried using Revitar in this way? Have you ny examples of "electric" guitar programming I could listen to?

Anyway, I've drivelled on for long enough. Last things -

- do you know if the steel guitar you use from Pure Guitars is the same as the one included in Real Guitars?

- what do you think of the forthcoming RealGuitar from Musiclab?

- is the "Virtual Guitar" in your last example VG from Steinberg? Sounds better than I remember it if so!

Cheers again,


Steve

I've heard that Plugsound: Stringed is a good value for guitars. I think there are a few reviews in the database that may expound on that.

floyd wrote:

I've heard that Plugsound: Stringed is a good value for guitars. I think there are a few reviews in the database that may expound on that.

Yes - now that you mention it, I've heard of that being pretty good. Thing is, it's a lot of money to gamble without hearing the damn thing make a simple background rhythm.

True. There might be a guitar in Plugsound Free to try, perhaps.

SRF

Quote:

- do you know if the steel guitar you use from Pure Guitars is the same as the one included in Real Guitars? - what do you think of the forthcoming RealGuitar from Musiclab? - is the "Virtual Guitar" in your last example VG from Steinberg? Sounds better than I remember it if so!

If your Real Guitars steel pick has 5 velo layers, with 8 samples per octave, then it's prob the same

RealGuitar from MusicLabs ... yup, looking forward to it

Virtual Guitar 1 is under rated, mostly because it's slightly pricey and ppl maybe haven't taken the trouble to try and be imaginative with it

Any lacklustre punk will find it easy to take cheap shots at any guitar sim

Here's some recent cheesey shit with layers, VG, Uncle Tom Cobbley & All

www.rossiterandco.com/files/cheese.mp3 1mb

Because it's so cheesey I'm tempted to play it to the Scottish Cabinet (serious here )