Check the Instrument Ratings. SCORPION v4.2 has eclipsed the mighty Pentagon 1 as KVR's most higly rated synth. Quality will out.

not to piss on your slippers warren ...

... but lets see how scorpion fares after its had 44 reviews instead of 5

slainte rob

that or some members of the church of synapse did the same kind of voting that the authors on amazon.com got caught doing...

Not really on topic but does anyone knows when synapse will finally release a mac version of plucked string VI ?

Bones - I'm still a bit confussed about Scorpian, and spoke with Rich - who made some generous offers indeed for 4.2 for me. But I've had Scorpian with every version of Orion I've ever gotten, and Rich says the upgrade is really for those that bought their Scorpian separately. So what exactly are the differences I and others are missing out on by using the 'generic Orion' version?

I apologised to Rich, as I've never even seriously used Scorpian yet as I've been swamped with all this other stuff. But I know when I tried out Scorpian - it definately has some 'balls' on it for sure!

Still not as good as WaspXT...

Bones

Quote:

Check the Instrument Ratings. SCORPION v4.2 has eclipsed the mighty Pentagon 1 as KVR's most higly rated synth. Quality will out.

Sometimes I feel you talk about synths like some ppl talk about football teams ... you know, very coolly and unemotively.

And the last resort logic is always down to "... when I do my gigs with my great sounds it sounds great ... and all the rest is bollocks".

I feel so much better informed for this

What is even more amazing is that I know you're a really bright bloke.

(This is my Bones-Bashing over ... but I think you owe me this one for all the times I've stuck up for you in times past )

He just likes what he likes... As I likes what i likes...

waspXT might be better than scorpion (do not know); unfortunitely, it is not available stand-alone.

i am only familiar with the wasp demo in floops, and it was my favorite of the floops demo synths until sytrus. wasp still wins for its "immediacy", but sytrus appears to have far greater potential for those willing to climb the curve.

pHz wrote:

but lets see how scorpion fares after its had 44 reviews instead of 5

In the current climate it is unlikely that any instrument will ever get anywhere near that number of reviews. Even z3ta+, KVR's most used synth, has a fraction of that number of reviews.

Kevvvvvv, you'll notice that I have not reviewed Scorpion myself. Actually, I am positive that I have reviewed it but for some reason there are no old reviews. I have no idea why. If it seems that I am a little one-eyed about Synapse it is only because Rich seems to want to take things in a direction that suits me down to the ground. I think he is also the price leader. e.g. Look how much reFx wants Junox owners to pay for an upgrade to Vanguard as compared to what Junglist owners paid for a Hydra upgrade. Needless to say, I started this thread purely to stir the pot. At no time have I said that I agree with the situation [because Junglist/Hydra is a much better synth].

JDub, the only things Rich has added since v1.5 are effects, effects and more effects. Maybe a unison mode too [if it's not on 1.5]. So it basically means that the presets sound a million times better but the synth itself is largely the same. I do not use it at all any more and, in fact, only have v2 on my machine [because I can use my own small skin].

What a stupid thread.

A SILLY FELLOW CALLED KRAKATAU WROTE :

Quote:

Krakatau Posted: 18 Feb 2004 19:25 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Not really on topic but does anyone knows when synapse will finally release a mac version of plucked string VI ?

Seems we've got some slap back echoes....

this has suprised me immensely. not cause i think scorpion's shit, it's a nice enough synth, but it's not in pentagon, rhino, or zeta's league. not by a long shot. anyway, there goes that famous saying again "different strokes"......

Hehe, I'd be willing to add a review, but that'd make me a sinner then. I literally hate all Synapse plugins(except for pluckstring), from interface to sound.

I'm thinking about selling my scorpion license. But I don't want to beg them to allow me sell it...

Clearly, you're a moron.

chagzuki wrote:

What a stupid thread.

Matches your entire existence really, doesn't it?

fuck I would KILL someone to have the kind of time on my hands that you seem to have for inane, immature banter.

Oh look, guess I do have the time!

ouhouh .. i have to bite into my tongue not to comment mister bones .. and so i do .. not easy though.

putte

putte wrote:

ouhouh .. i have to bite into my tongue not to comment mister bones .. and so i do .. not easy though. putte

you could always press your thumbs putte

.. but then again i always think i´d be in for a fight with bones, with words only of course.

hmm .. maybe we should open a "kvr fight club" .. i could open the first fight, together with bonsey bones.

putte

Putte, why the fuck would you not want to comment? Do you really think it matters one iota what anyone here thinks or says? None of you have the slightest idea who I am and your reactions to my everyday expressions are pathetic.

there goes the recaptured spirit of K-v-R i guess putte ...

... thanks warren - you grumpy bastard

slainte rob

BONES wrote:

Putte, why the fuck would you not want to comment? Do you really think it matters one iota what anyone here thinks or says? None of you have the slightest idea who I am and your reactions to my everyday expressions are pathetic.

You obviously enjoy stirring up trouble and being rude bones, and you obviously think you know best about everything. its called being pretentious.

Perhaps "Boner" would be a better name for yourself

not as pathetic as someone who makes 95% of their contribution to KVR as 'that sucks' 'your an idiot' and 'this gear is crap'

Not even close. But why lecture you? I'm sure you can teach us all a good new lesson in the depths of what pathetic really can mean.

I should really follow putte's example (damn how many times do i tell myself that?). I will try harder to stfu when I encounter people like you, not much good in validating your crap, and not much good in having a care for the shithead little kids in the world

BONES wrote:

Putte, why the fuck would you not want to comment?

seriously, thats a good question.

Normally when people post stuff in a way i don´t appreciate i´m easy with it .. just the peaceful hippyhun ..
But with you its diffrent, as you really manage to get on my nerves.

Quote:

Do you really think it matters one iota what anyone here thinks or says?

yes, it does matter. For many many people here.

Quote:

None of you have the slightest idea who I am and your reactions to my everyday expressions are pathetic.

I for one have at least a slight idea .. a slight one though.
but did you ever ask yourself why people give you these "pathetic" reactions?

We´re using words here, typed with a keyboard. That´s what counts here.

putte

Hehe, simmer down chaps! Bones has been here long enough for you all to know what he's like. Having lived in Yorkshire for over 15 years, I know the type, grumpy buggers, well. Take him with a pinch of salt, I disagreee with a lot of what he says , but he's not offensive in a bluey kind of way. He makes me larf anyway.

Hey, I'm not grumpy. I just listened to two Rammstein songs in a nightclub in Bangalore whilst eating chilli chicken and drinking Kingfisher draught. Life doesn't get much better than that, does it?
[edited due to overconsumption of Kingfisher draught]

donkey tugger wrote:

Hehe, simmer down chaps! Bones has been here long enough for you all to know what he's like.

true .. that´s exactly what makes wonder now about me myself now, in this thread.

Im sitting here, feeling fine .. but still this thingie got me now ..

putte

.. and i think i know now what it is, that keeps me going on when thinking about you, bones.
Its this, to me, unsensitive way you post. the way you chose words and explanations .. the "aura" of your postings.

Sure, this is just a personal impression i have .. so please dont take this as "bones is dumb", or "what an idiot".

its just the communication.
Still i´d be open to have a beer with you, at a bar.

putte

Bones knows his shit, doesn't put up with shit, and talks like shit sometimes....

Kirk Douglas once said in regards to Stanley Kubrick "There are talented people, and then there are shitty people..."

Bones is a talented shit.

He's alright in my books too.

BONES wrote:

Putte... None of you have the slightest idea who I am ....

Let me take a guess. It may be right, and it may be wrong. But here goes....

Goood day, Aussie. How are things in Gladesville?

For the sake of privacy I will not reveal any more information. Would not want a Warrent.

Robert

Rabid wrote:

Goood day, Aussie. How are things in Gladesville?

Don't know, I'm in Bangalore, India. Don't you read threads before posting?

BONES wrote:

Don't know, I'm in Bangalore, India. Don't you read threads before posting?

.. goodie, i can laugh again!

As I said, it was a guess that could be right or could be wrong. I just used the connection to Warren R BONES, along with the billing address you use.

Robert

BONES wrote:

drinking Kingfisher draught........ [edited due to overconsumption of Kingfisher draught]

Pfft, can't take his ale either. Nice beer that though, they have it in the local curry house.

putte wrote:

"bones is dumb", or "what an idiot".

Search the forums and see who I have called an idiot more than anyone else.
Hopefully I will get to take you up on that beer when we are in Germany for the summer festivals, just don't wear a Mac T-shirt.

donkey tugger wrote:

Nice beer that though, they have it in the local curry house.

I dunno about Blighty but the export Kingfisher we get in Australia is not half as good as the local Indian version, which itself is different in different regions. I always go for the clear glass when drinking from long-necks [as opposed to the brown or green glass] but draught is definitely best.

Quote:

Krakatau KvRian Posted: 19 Feb 2004 09:28         ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- A SILLY FELLOW CALLED KRAKATAU WROTE : Quote: Krakatau Posted: 18 Feb 2004 19:25 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Not really on topic but does anyone knows when synapse will finally release a mac version of plucked string VI ? Seems we've got some slap back echoes.... _________________ my little girl's just got two years old and is called "FLEUR" ...as a pretty little flower that she is !

Seems we still have some feedback there...

BONES wrote:

chagzuki wrote: What a stupid thread. Matches your entire existence really, doesn't it?

What a stupid thread.

Well, I'm not a Orion slave, in fact it's my 2nd sequencer to go to, but I love the sound of Scorpion. I liked the older version in Orion Platinum and really like Scorpion 4. Whatever it was originally meant for this synth has a killer sound for many different genres and can sound enormous with a three note pad. The leads and basses are powerful and yet it's entirely possible to get lighter, more etherial sounds too.

In terms of comparison to Pentagon, another killer synth, I like Scorpion because there are times I just don't want a big synth with tons of choices in my face. I love that Pentagon has so many choices but I'm glad my bandmate has Square. It's a good alternative although not as big sounding as Pentagon. And then there's Scorpion, it's very flexible and simple, yet it is flexible. Should it be number one? Who really cares? Not to knock BONES but seriously, Scorpion is one of those lost in the shuffle synths. I suspect if it wasn't marketed by Synapse but at another large company it might do better.

It's also reasonably priced.

I haven't reviewed it yet but I can't see this being reviewed at a low point. I'm waiting or the honeymoon period to end and then review. Sometimes people review immediately and think whatever synth is something it may not be. I know that several synths I did reviews on changed, some for the worse, some for the better.

To be honest I'm astonished VirSyn TERA 2 isn't the best synth because there's a strong argument for it being so. I'm not going to live my life for the charts or the justificiation of my purchase or because something isn't deserving of it's low ratings and there's a lot of medium level synths on the charts that I think are the best VSTis made.

TheWall wrote:

Hehe, I'd be willing to add a review, but that'd make me a sinner then. I literally hate all Synapse plugins(except for pluckstring), from interface to sound.

Ditto. But I love Orion Platinum.

...and BONES is many things, but I don't think he's pretentious. Pigheaded, opinionated, self-righteous (on occasion), rush to make judgements, narrow-single-minded - yes. But he's sure as hell authentic.

He just has no taste when it comes to Pentagon. And personally, I'm glad 'cause it's his loss.

...now watch the insults fly!

well, I don't agree with bones often, but he has made me appreciate the waspXT.
I like scorpion, too, but quite often gets lost among all I have.
still don't have any fondness for jx synth, though.
and the more vst's the merrier.
just different philosophies (and music)

x_bruce wrote:

... To be honest I'm astonished VirSyn TERA 2 isn't the best synth because there's a strong argument for it being so. ...

If it could be bought as a download for a price close to z3ta+, and the developer had a presence here it probably would be number one.

Robert

Rabid wrote:

x_bruce wrote: ... To be honest I'm astonished VirSyn TERA 2 isn't the best synth because there's a strong argument for it being so. ... If it could be bought as a download for a price close to z3ta+, and the developer had a presence here it probably would be number one. Robert

you got that right!

Dingo865 wrote:

He just has no taste when it comes to Pentagon. And personally, I'm glad 'cause it's his loss.

I don't dislike Pentagon 1, I just don't think it's worth $99, especially when it was released and was the most expensive download around. My comments are usually a reaction to the fervour of users who fail to see it's shortcomings.

TheWall wrote:

Hehe, I'd be willing to add a review, but that'd make me a sinner then. I literally hate all Synapse plugins(except for pluckstring), from interface to sound. I'm thinking about selling my scorpion license. But I don't want to beg them to allow me sell it...

please, do a review, as LONG as it's truthful. i mean, if you hate it, you hate it, you have evry right to express that as much as someone who loves it.

chagzuki wrote:

BONES wrote: chagzuki wrote: What a stupid thread. Matches your entire existence really, doesn't it? What a stupid thread.

VirSyn don't have a presence here which is too bad. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of their marketing, here at least.

Really though, I don't think $225 is an unreasonable price for TERA 2. I've advised several people to start there and see if they need more. And I wouldn't be too far from saying try CUBE next except the war of the additives is getting interesting. Camel Audio did a nice update with Cameleon 1.2. It's a workflow choice, both synths have great sound quality.

As for not liking Synapse plugins, is there any particular reason? I mean, I like Hydra but it's a harder sounding synth than many others I've tried and liked. Still it's very well designed. I'm surprised to hear anyone say the GUI is bad. Ditto with Scorpion. I'll admit Scorpion is a bit more to my tastes and I haven't really spent anywhere near enough time with Hydra. I'd say the worst thing about it is trying to figure out what type of synthesis it uses without using the manual. But even Hydra can be made to be quite smooth in timbre. From the older days wasn't it a lead and bass synth? It's such a difficult call these days for me not to like a synth. I don't know if it's the parity between synths. I'm in my 3rd year of VST instruments and:
1. a lot sound the same, but then there's way too many around anyway
2. the quality models keep getting better
3. the first line of synths like Pro-52/53 and PPG Wave 2v are holding up well and they are incredibly easy on the CPU
4. like games there's almost an arms race with some developers, instead of working to get the CPU use down they just do a Microsoft (or Apple for that matter) and say get a faster CPU, memory, etc.

And that's why I like Scorpion. It seems to have gotten more efficient with the CPU as new releases go by. That counts a lot more to me now than it used to.

well, it did not take long for the review edits putting pentagon back on top. a conspiracy ?

actually, they are both great synths, but i do not think either of them warrent the top spot.

and to correct BONES!! (yes, he is wrong this one time), the pentagon is not $99; it is $133. Note that this is almost twice the price of the scorpion.

I am nearing completion of a large bank of patches for the scorpion. these are signicantly different than the presets; they musically explore the remote edges of scorpion's sonic space. they demonstrate why i like scorpion.

x_bruce wrote:

As for not liking Synapse plugins, is there any particular reason?

Well, it's not a professional musician's opinion - but then I'm not a professional, so I can't very well give one, so fuck the pros!

...and I actually lied, as I do like WASP and (to a much lesser degree) Ultran, even though I barely use them...

...but to me, it's a constellation of three factors:
* GUI
* Preset Management
* Preset Sounds

I hate MOST Synapse GUI's (except for Monobass, Tomcat, XR909, and the Drums in OPlat). They don't fit my way of thinking - the layout, the visual feedback - and they don't inspire me. And they are too small. In fact, I suspect if I ever got into any of the synths, it was mostly because of BONES' skins (especially the orange-red ones and those with digital feedback).

I find Orion's preset management pathetic. I like to see all my presets listed in a multi-column sheet, all at once, instead of having to scroll for fucking forever to find the 127th. Auditioning presets is the fastest way to a synth's sound - and hence, to a customer's heart - and if you discourage browsing, you are restricting your customers' window on your synth's capabilities.

Finally, I don't like the presets that ship with Scorpion/Junglist/Ultran/WASP/Hydra. Generally. Sonically, they aren't what I'm looking for, and they don't grab me either.

One, or two at most, of the above wouldn't keep me away from these instruments; but all three are just too much. I open the synth and try the first few presets - they don't grab me - I try to browse further down looking for, hoping for, a broader variety - but browsing becomes work instead of pleasure - so I give up and try to create my own sounds instead - but the GUI is so alien I find looking at it for hours is boring and uninspiring - and so I give up. End of story.

So, in a sense, the Synapse synths may be incredibly good sounding, and I'm merely ignorant about them. But I'm ignorant about them because their design doesn't inspire me to want to find out more.

what's the deal with the hydra demo. if it has a serial protection on the non-demo how come i can save and export it in cubase. audio doesn't seem disrupted. Not to say im not going to pay them for it! but this seems a little odd. Don't you guy's think!

Nicely reasoned response, dingo. If I had those feelings I'd probably be not interested in a synth. I have some of the concerns about patch management you do but can live with it. Can't agree about the interface, but to each their own, eh?

In any case it's so much easier to respect a person's opinion when they articulate it.

Cheers,
Bruce

ttoz wrote:

please, do a review, as LONG as it's truthful. i mean, if you hate it, you hate it, you have evry right to express that as much as someone who loves it.

Well. I don't tend to make negative reviews with the plugins I don't like. I try to keep in mind those devs are mostly still struggling in the business. If it's from Steinberg, you bet I'd review it here.

My post was more of a response to Bones' ongoing trashing of RGC Audio. If he only stated that what he loves and thinks of the synths he likes without trashing other synths I wouldn't even make my previous post at all.

My sentiment is well put by Dingo. (BTW, in the latest Scorpion, there's a multi-column sheet for patches at last.)

I think synths from the same author tend to have the same sound character. It's pretty easy to like or dislike a series of synths just for this reason...

TheWall wrote:

If he only stated that what he loves and thinks of the synths he likes without trashing other synths

Why would I only tell half a story? Anyway, as stated above, I don't have a problem with the synths per-se, but with their price.

Quote:

My sentiment is well put by Dingo. (BTW, in the latest Scorpion, there's a multi-column sheet for patches at last.)

Same with HYDRA.

Quote:

I think synths from the same author tend to have the same sound character. It's pretty easy to like or dislike a series of synths just for this reason...

... as long as the're not RGC Synths, eh. Anyway, Scorpion sounds very different to any of Rich's other synths.
I also agree with Dingo865 about Scorpion's GUI. Why on Earth would you put the Cutoff and Resonance knobs in one part of the UI and the filter type selector somewhere else? Just so that it looks neat having all the LED's in one place? That's just dumb and does make it harder to use. I also think there are too many things on the OPT button menu that could have their own buttons on the UI. HYDRA is much more logical, just a little bland. And I think the're both bigger than they need to be but so is pretty much every UI I can think of.
I also don't think much of the presets but WaspXT and Scorpion are so easy to use that it's a total non-issue.

bones, it is possible for you to reskin the scorpion ? there is a hint within this thread that it might be possible, at least within orion.

i do not have a problem with scorpions current layout, but all of the points raised in this thread are valid improvements. heres another -- i would like a visual clue as to which knobs are single pole and which bipolar; i know now, but it took a while.

It was possible up to and including version 2 but, thanks to the fact that some thoughtless bastards use Mac's, the ability was removed in version 3 for compatibility.

I'm so sad to hear this news, as for sure most Pentagon I users are.

I'm sure they're most likely deleting all songs they've created in the last two years when P1 was at the top of the list, and using the old Norton Wipefile to avoid any chance of reconstructing them. They're definitely not worthy anymore.

Also, I suggest every Pentagon I user to remove all installers for it from your hard disks, and break any backup CD. It's now a shame.

I'm now considering discontinuing it from our product line, wiping the source code and focusing in doing webcode. I'll keep you all posted.

Not.

-René

slainte rob

lol hehehehe

That thing about synths from the same developer sounding alike. Huh?
Pentagon sounds nothing like z3ta, sorry René, think I'll have keep Pentagon. How about reskinning Square though?
Scorpion sounds nothing like Hydra either. I know Hydra is the more expensive of the two but I prefer Scorpion because it does the type of sounds I desire, Hydra does some killer basses and leads which I'm not as concerned with.
TERA 2 sounds nothing like CUBE 1.5

and as for synths sounding good or bad, I have a real problem with a lot of the reviews here in that they slag a synth with a witty comment or two and don't justify the opinion with any argument. If you can't argue a point why bother discussing it? I equally dislike heaps of mindless praise.