We have seen a few ROMpler type VSTi's hit the market, but still nothing as programmable as the Roland XV series. There is so much you can do when you combine a large variety of multi-samples with features such as ring-mod, distortion, feedback loops, multiple filters, etc. The closest we have come was the last version of Crystal. So who is going to finally combine a sample library like Hypersonic or SampleTank with the programmable engine of a z3ta+ or Tera 2?

Robert

I'm waiting to see what exactly the XPhraze Xpansions will contain before I'm answering that one.With a proper sample set,XPhraze would be it.
ew

Oh. I chose Spectrasonics because I have hopes that the combination of Eric's samples and Glen's programming will come through in a big way.

Robert

True-a fully programmable Atmosphere would make me look very hard into getting it.
ew

I think a better question is what is the best sample-based soft workstation. I only ever buy romplers when it's way cheaper than a similar sample library(plugsound). A good sample library and a dedicated sampler is in all ways better than rompler engines. They allow one to subtly tweak the settings, or alter/improve the layering scheme. Plus one isn't stuck to a single technology. Even if worse comes to worse and that format is no longer viable, the .wav files are available so that one could rebuild the patches in the latest sampling engine. Way more value for the money I say.

That being said, I think the NI sampling line will continue to grow and improve over time. Catering to both the home hobbyist who likes workstation rompler-like presets (Intakt & Kompakt), and the advanced user/sound designer who takes sampling seriously (Kontakt). Kontakt has some good effects which are easily patched together and integrated with the workflow. It's simply the best all-in-one sampling workstation around.

Sampletank 2 is alright, I love what Stretch can do with a sound to make it sound really grimy without doing the usual distortion/lofi/amp/bitcrush thing. I just wish it was more modular (like Kontakt), and was easier to edit layers and zones.

Beyond samplers though I think with the addition of the DASHsnd Creation Tool, the Dash rompler line will have a viable presence as sample-based soft-workstations (assuming Dash doesn't go under). I know when I'm in a hurry to come up with something, EVE is a good place to start working on ideas. Its layout is logical, and even a beginner can learn the basics of sample-based synthesis from working with EVE. What really makes Dash soft-romplers much better than most romplers is the previously mentioned DASHsnd tool (which I'm saving up for as we speak). It's one thing to have a nice sample library, with an intuitive interface. But there is a limitation. At some point, a muso is going to want more control over their sound. EVE is a good start for someone getting into sample-based synthesis that doesn't have enough to get Kontakt. Its library of sounds isn't HUGE like some romplers, but the ability to import your own sounds with the DASHsnd creation tool makes it more powerful than most romplers. Being able to import user samples makes one less dependent upon the software company to release new sound banks for the rompler. That's the future of sample-based synthesis. More power, more control, less closed technology. Isn't that what computer music is supposed to be all about?

ATA

I think RGC could. Would in some ways be a logical extension of sfz+. Wave phrasing would be an excellent feature in such a case.

Steve

I have EVE, Kontakt with SonicStation, SonicSynth, GigaStudio, etc. But a highly programmable ROMpler can serve a different purpose than the best of samplers. It is not always about how real the orchestra sounds. Sometimes you want to run that orchestra patch through a formant filter and apply a bit of ring modulation. Or maybe use controllable filter feedback on a trumpet patch. You can make some interesting and very playable patches by applying modular techniques to a sample. Current soft samplers have focused on how many Gigs they can process, but leave out critical synthesis factors like mod matrix and ring modulation. That is why an imaginative programmer can get more interesting sounds out of a Roland XV or an Emu than they can from a sterile software sampler with 20 gigs of samples.

Robert

I'm waiting to see what Emulator X does. I have the synth engine in my PK-6 hardware and it is great. I don't think there's ever going to be something like TERA 2 romplers. That's defeating the purpose of what good virtual synths do.

Sample based synths are really close imo right now with SampleTank 2. It's relatively closed but still has AKAI and I don't remember what else, import support.

The sounds in ST2 are very good and I am very hard to please when it comes to sample based synths. Needless to say Sonic Reality has some great samples that go well with Kontakt and Halion. There is a lot of synthesis going on in either though I'm partial to Kontakt.

If I had to advise I'm not sure I wouldn't suggest ST2 L and Sonic Synth 1 or 2 which I believe is in development. Hearing Sonic Reality's stuff in the new ST2 engine is a big, favorable difference. Also, it's a pretty good synth. It's not full blown and full of exotic features but you can certainly do things with it between it's vastly better synth controls and 5 effects per instrument. I wouldn't count it out especially as it requires no significant knowledge of how to sample which is what the comparison is about.

I'd think that if VirSyn were to ever do a sample based thing much of CUBE would be there. Additive is a natural for sample analysis. A mix of straight multisample and additive would be incredible and freaking deep.

Cameleon 5000 is very close with it's treatment of samples as well. The additive synths can do very convincing analog type sounds and have a vastly deeper range.

If there is such a mondo-synth It'll be a combination of Spectral, Additive and traditional multisample synthesis. CUBE and Cameleon 5000 are almost there already.

I am also waiting to see something with the synthesis depth of an XV or Proteus.I think that Sonik Synth 2 may be it,or at least a giant step in the right direction.I think that a rompler has the advantage over a sampler in that with a closed waveform set,one has to focus on getting the sound out of the engine.With a sampler,the focus gets to be on the sample and not the synthesis.I do find myself spending more time finding sounds and then playing them more or less straight with VSampler,Yamaha A4000,and NNXT,and not delving anywhere as deep into their synth resources,whereas with the 1080 in my partner's studio,I'm all about filters and envelopes and all-around mangling mayhem.
It's probably about the nature of the market in the end.Most romplers hard or soft get sold to people who want to plug and play,and most samplers,hard or soft, to people who want the ultimate in sound quality and choice in the samples themselves.Synthesists are a minority in either case.But I do find the shallowness of Atmosphere or Plugsound to be a real turn-off.And with its promise of native Giga support,I would be first in line for the popular sfz+,if its synth architecture was based on Z3ta.Not a rompler,of course,but a product from a company that knows how to build a synth,so I'm curious as to why it's so vanilla.
Nevertheless,I will make it a point to grab some soundfonts from my folder,and dig into VSampler's synth architecture,effects bussing and dsp.A few good synthesis banks and I will have answered this question myself.

by definition of a rompler, (not sampler like Kontakt) I'm going to say SamplTank2. I love it to death and would be lost without it's ease of use and wide variety of great sounds.

I'd like to see a version of UltraFocus with access to every one of the 20,000 (or however many it is!) samples that it uses - I would imagine you could create pretty much any synth sound you wanted with those, if you could layer four or more of them together as well.

I'm still hoping to see a soft synth that will morph between a series of one cycle waves, and also take an inputted sample (say, ten seconds of a piano note), and cuts out one cycle waves throughout the sample, (using AI), and just stores these and their position in the sample. You could then reduce the size of the original sample to about 1/100th of its original size, and also manipulate it in ways that would normally be impossible.

I think WusikStation is a choice since it comes with 400MB of sample data and it is very programmable. Very affordable too if you preorder today.

Phil.

It's weird. The JV, XV, and even into the Fantom series, VERY LITTLE HAS CHANGED on the synthesis side over the last 10 years.

For sure, the controlability based on velocity and key mappings is superior to most softsynths I've played. What's sad, is things like multiple LFO shapes and combining LFO shapes such as Exciton offers is much more advanced than the XV. BUT, the XV offers more control over fade in/fade out times, and player control as well.

Also, the limited 10 "Fixed" routing paths for the signal I'm surprised hasn't been changed or upgraded either, which is easily accomplished in Reaktor, obviously.

Also, surprised on how few filters there are too compared to more recent offerings such as Vanguard for example.

In short, if the 'best' of the XV like the key mapping and velocity for so many parameters, was combined with more filters, and LFO's, and include more than 4 'tone' slots, and the rest of the advanced features, we'd be moving into one serious synth.

Devon

smart wrote:

by definition of a rompler, (not sampler like Kontakt) I'm going to say SamplTank2. I love it to death and would be lost without it's ease of use and wide variety of great sounds.

Unless I'm totally missing something, SampleTank has *NOWHERE* near the build-in synth abilities that a Roland has. Looking back at z3ta+ (I hadn't looked that closely at it in probably a good year or so), THAT is synthesis abilities to the extreme, and pretty much the only thing that competes with what the JV/XV/Fantom does for synthesis. Well, that, and Reaktor.

Devon

Good idea !
Let's make Rene a z3ta++
Like a real sampler, with program edit/import ect.
but the synth engine of the z3ta+

This would be the ueber-ueber sampler !

Nearly all parts are there.

Go for it Rene !!!

Midiworks wrote:

Good idea ! Let's make Rene a z3ta++ Like a real sampler, with program edit/import ect. but the synth engine of the z3ta+ This would be the ueber-ueber sampler ! Nearly all parts are there. Go for it Rene !!!

And unattainable to Mac users. I vote for anyone else ReFX, Spectrasonics, NI, to make a cross platform solution.

Lady J wrote:

And unattainable to Mac users

And so clearly the message is "Macs suck" -- Aw, shucks, I knew that all along

I voted 'other hardware..' thinking of EMU. They have the hardware (but probably not as versatile as XV-series) and they know how to be soft. Their filters are heaven too

Wait a minute .. isnt Emulator X kinda like a rompler already? It has a lot of romplersounds

By the way, does anyone know what to do if you cannot turn your head to the left? If i try it REALLY hurts

I still have 3 Macs, 2 Powerbooks and 1 G3,
they all eat dust...

I agree Logic Audio is great on Mac,
things like ProTools cool, if you have the money.

My old PC PIII 667mhz has so much more power than
my G3, its unbelievable !

I can only say, if you want a powerfull VST mashine,
simply add a 2ghz or up PC only for that.
Use it like a hardware synth over midi or with someting like Steinbergs SystemLink, setting up 2 computers like one.

Don't start telling me about a G5 please...

An extra $7-800 for a power horse Win PC, is nothing
for the extra power you will get.

xg2 wrote:

I'd like to see a version of UltraFocus with access to every one of the 20,000 (or however many it is!) samples that it uses - I would imagine you could create pretty much any synth sound you wanted with those, if you could layer four or more of them together as well. .

I really like this one and I think, considering all the single "raw" waveforms they provide and the 8 gigs of samples, that the sounds you can create with UF are virtually endless...I own a few analog and digital synths and Ultra Focus really IS useful in my set up.
(not like other instruments I checked or even bought )