I saw this available at ZZounds, and was wondering if anyone has it yet? how is the controller? how does it sound?

they haven't got stock till 28th of the month as far as i can see.

I saw one in stock at my local music store! It looks awsome...it was selling for $700 CND.

Patrick

pfung wrote:

I saw one in stock at my local music store! It looks awsome...it was selling for $700 CND. Patrick

there goes my trip to the US and Europe

Does the hardware controller come with every copy or is it a limited edition? I'm seriously considering getting this.

aMUSEd wrote:

Does the hardware controller come with every copy or is it a limited edition? I'm seriously considering getting this.

standard issue

aMUSEd wrote:

Does the hardware controller come with every copy or is it a limited edition? I'm seriously considering getting this.

I'd play with it first if you can. I know how underwhelmed I'd be about having a Korg Wavestation again. It's cool... but... I'd rather have XPhrase with better patches.

Devon

DevonB wrote:

aMUSEd wrote: Does the hardware controller come with every copy or is it a limited edition? I'm seriously considering getting this. I'd play with it first if you can. I know how underwhelmed I'd be about having a Korg Wavestation again. It's cool... but... I'd rather have XPhrase with better patches. Devon

or just get the wavestation and enjoy the thousands and thousands of patches availbe for it around the net, which are loadable by the plug in version

Yeah, and can't really compare the Legacy bundle with Xphraze since the bundle has other stuff besides the WS.

Very interested to hear how it sounds in knowing hands, myself.

BTW, I found a page comparing different VSTi's to their hardware counterparts, including the Legacy Polysix:

http://www1.keyboards.de/magazine/m0404/404022wp.html

BTW2: Korg seems to have the registration webpage up already at www.korguser.net

ttoz wrote:

or just get the wavestation and enjoy the thousands and thousands of patches availbe for it around the net, which are loadable by the plug in version

Only if the sounds were enjoyable.

Devon

Anyone know if you have the option of just buying the Wavestation VSTi. Don't really need the controller or other stuff.

According to the current information, nope. Just the bundle.

Controller = dongle

Some Korg guy said it isn't a dongle. You can use the synths without it being connected.

The plug-ins are available only as a bundle complete with the USB MS-20 controller, which is just a MIDI controller, it is in no way a dongle.

A Korg guy at NAMM told me that the bundle including the MS-20 controller is only how it is initially available and he hinted that after initial stocks have sold out it may change to being a software bundle only, without the controller, so if you want one of those cool controllers make sure you pick one up before they become a collectors item

Ben | KvR wrote:

so if you want one of those cool controllers make sure you pick one up before they become a collectors item

I think Lenny might like playing with it, but its soooooo goddamn small, i doubt my porky fingers would find it any use

DevonB wrote:

ttoz wrote: or just get the wavestation and enjoy the thousands and thousands of patches availbe for it around the net, which are loadable by the plug in version Only if the sounds were enjoyable. Devon

dud stop trying to knock the wavestation every chance you can get

ok, so xphrase is better. woop de doo. what about the other two synths and the 22 effects which are usable as normal plugins? considering a wavestation controller cost more than the price of this entire bundle? comeon, it's going to please a lot of people. i predict, HUGE hit. i'll bet on it

Collector's item? I don't think so. Why anyone would want a smaller plastic version of the MS20 to control a VSTi is beyond me. Doesn't it come with mini-keys as well? Ewwww. For that kind of $$$, you can get the real deal. Sure you may have to pay for upkeep, but it certainly does sound a lot better. As a side note I recently saw some Air concerts and J.B. Dunkel was going to town on his MS-20. My pants were soiled in both front and back.

donato wrote:

but it certainly does sound a lot better.

have you heard the real thing and the emaulation side by side to make that judgment?

ttoz wrote:

DevonB wrote: ttoz wrote: or just get the wavestation and enjoy the thousands and thousands of patches availbe for it around the net, which are loadable by the plug in version Only if the sounds were enjoyable. Devon dud stop trying to knock the wavestation every chance you can get ok, so xphrase is better. woop de doo. what about the other two synths and the 22 effects which are usable as normal plugins? considering a wavestation controller cost more than the price of this entire bundle? comeon, it's going to please a lot of people. i predict, HUGE hit. i'll bet on it

Hey, you knock Cubase, I'll knock the bundle. The extra patches on the net weren't all that. Hell, even a lot of the commercial cards weren't all that either. If you like to program, that'll be better, but if you can't add anything to it, it does sound a bit stale, that's all.

Devon

Quote:

woop de doo. what about the other two synths and the 22 effects which are usable as normal plugins? considering a wavestation controller cost more than the price of this entire bundle? comeon, it's going to please a lot of people. i predict, HUGE hit. i'll bet on it

There are many debatable points around this Legacy bundle. For anyone that has never used Korg stuff, then it probably is a good deal. But for the many of us who have (and still do) use Korg stuff, then it ain't such a bargain.

Wavestation plugin - no point when compared against XPhraze in terms of both price and features and sound. Yep, there are lots of patches for the Wavestation available, but that still doesn't answer the point that all of those patches have no access to resonant filtering in any way shape or form. Lots of patches certainly doesn't mean lots of good patches.

Polysix - Nothing special there at all - loads of cheap and even free VSTis can do everything that a Polysix can do. A mate loaned me his Polysix years ago - within a week I had given it back - I had both a Juno106 and a JP3x that had better sound, more facilities and more character (and they are both entry level analogue polysynths). I can name several VSTis (both free and consumer - but mostly cheap) that I would rather use even if you gave me a mint Polysix.

MS20 - this is the real gold in the bundle. If it sounds true, then it will be a hit - but as mentioned, it costs close to what an original can be bought for (depending where in the world you are). I think the controller is an excellent idea - this is what could prove the difference between it winning and losing. The hands on interface is one of the most important factors that a real synth has (and it has been proven that a true-sounding VSTi emulation can be achieved) So taking for granted that its sound is good, then the controller will make people want to buy it. Good for Korg.

ExtraFX?: I'll wait and see about that one until I hear them. Korg have certainly made good h/w FX units in the past, so there's no reason they won't make good s/w FX. It all depends on the quality and whether they do anything that can't be done with other FX (bearing in mind there is some damn good competition out there with free FX - look at e-phonic RetroDelay, SIR reverb, Cyanide, Paris Eq, Digitalfishphones dynamics).

So, unless you have no decent h/w, have never used them before, and have no other VSTis and FX, then the Legacy collection is not that good a deal at all.

It still might be a winner, but $600 for an MS20 and some extra stuff that you can get anywhere else, it needs a bit of thinking about - it most certainly is not an automatic bargain.

And I'm not automatically saying it's a bad buy - personally I think the MS20 will be good'un. I know the Polysix will be crap (only because the original was so crap), the WS could be a good'un - but as a WS owner, I will not buy another one either in s/w or h/w format.

Personally I might buy the set - I have an MS20, but I would find a VSTi very handy to have also, and the controller is a big selling point. But I object to having to buy 2 other dungers as part of the package.

hey,
i'm surprised that no one mentioned the last Future Music issue. they did a full 5 page review of this beast and it got Platinum award. guy who did it was so amazed by the sound of it that all of his markes went to RED. i honestly belive in this product and think it can't be compared with X-Phraze at all. and for 399 US$ it's unbeatable!
i'm thinking of getting it and removing every other VSTi from my comp. (ok, i might leave z3ta+ )

p.s. btw. i didn't like X-Phraze at all. found it too complicated for the sound that wasn't impressive to me at all. sorry.

kritikon wrote:

the WS could be a good'un - but as a WS owner, I will not buy another one either in s/w or h/w format.

Bingo. After buying up daVector from Dash, I started to remember how much I was tired of the old WS sounds. I'd probably go for a MS2000 before I'd hit the MS20, personally. Never touched a PolySix, but I don't doubt your words, considering your experience.

Devon

You found XPhraze too complicated? OK, I can understand that - it's not the easiest to use... but you think you'll find the Wavestation easy to use?????????????

It's one of the most circuitous, difficult and just plain ornery beast you will ever, ever have to program. Way more difficult than XPhraze.

So FM gave it a Platinum award, hmmmm?








Well, it must be good then, right?

kritikon wrote:

You found XPhraze too complicated? OK, I can understand that - it's not the easiest to use... but you think you'll find the Wavestation easy to use?????????????

The man has a point.

Devon

I used to own a Wavestation and currently own Xphrase. However I would still like to have the Wavestation VSTi.

I am sure the other parts of the Legacy package are excellent but I think Korg could be missing out on a few potential customers by only offering the complete package. After all, this could represent some people's first VSTi venture and the Legacy package price (whilst good value compared to the original hardware) may be too much for some.

A Wavestation VSTi on it's own at £99? I'd probably go for it.

Website!,
You saw the Legacy Collection for $399 US, but not in the US, right? If so, where?
Shmoe

as i said, in the last FM.
and i forgot to mention that i never used any hardsynths (which means any of Korg's as well).
so, this is my chance

one more thing, MS 20 and Polysix now goes poli + there's a "mixer" which you can use to morph the sounds of those synths and to add Korg's efx on the top.

w

wont the legacy container allow you to chain together the vsts anyway? Which being the case, I could see someone sending the wavestation through the MS-20s filters...

I think the Legacy Cell (going by the FM review I read recently) only allows you to combine the MS20 and the Polysix - but not the Wavestation. However it does come with some VST effects too I gather but I don't know what these include.

And the thing about putting a WS through the MS20 filters is that it still doesn't enable you to filter individual oscillators within the wavesequence - which is what most people would want. I've tried putting my WS through my MS20, and although it helps, I have to filter the whole performance or patch - not what I generally want. With some hard work, I can put very quick filter changes onto the MS20 via a midi/CV converter to attempt to run in sync with the wave sequence, but it never works that well. The changes are way too quick to be effective that way - especially if you've got a drum sequence or some kind of arp going on.

Whereas XPhraze lets you filter individual oscillators. But anyway... as mentioned, you can't run the WS VSTi through the same filters as the MS20 and Polysix sims, so it's a moot point.

But I still hope lots of people buy the MS20 thingy - it's a great sounding and (more to the point) fun and very useable synth.

I sold my Wavestation A/D after getting XPhrase. The Wavestation sounds good but you're restricted to presets, the thing is just too difficult to edit!

I hope the software verion is easier to edit. It's true that you can download lots of sounds but remember that most of these are 'plastic' sounding early 90ties stuff, not very useful for modern music, unless you're going retro ofcourse.

Peter.

Hi guys,

I picked it up today at L&M here in Canada. Flashy box with a nice plastic carrying handle! I'm gonna fire the mother up tonight and maybe do a quick review of it. It was $700 CAD which is expensive for a VSTi, but not for 3 VSTi's and a MIDI controller. All in all I think it was good VFM.

But we'll see. Time to install it ... here we go ...

(stu.macQ)

stu.macQ wrote:

Hi guys, I picked it up today at L&M here in Canada. Flashy box with a nice plastic carrying handle! I'm gonna fire the mother up tonight and maybe do a quick review of it. It was $700 CAD which is expensive for a VSTi, but not for 3 VSTi's and a MIDI controller. All in all I think it was good VFM. But we'll see. Time to install it ... here we go ... (stu.macQ)

Hey stu, you go/had an Ms20/2000, Poly6 or Wavestation? I know you gots plenty of stuff.

Devon

I got it. PolySix and MS-20 are incredible synths. Lots can be done with "Legacy Cell" also.

Wow ... this thing sounds fantastic! Worth the money absolutely! It's fat and smooth and warm, etc, etc. The Wavestation IS a Wavestation, with all of the nuances of the original (from what I can tell). The MS20 sounds pretty close to what I remember, and the PolySix is just plain fat (never used a "real" one). It's been solidly stable for me for the past 2 hours under both Cubase SX 2.0 and FL Studio 4.52. The only real glitch I've found is that the "Wave Sequence Sync" switch in the Wavestation seems to be labelled backwards ... where "OFF" actually syncs it to host tempo.

Still digging and I'll do some more reviewing later, but overall I'm very pleased with it and I hope that there are other "big name" manufacturers that will follow suit. I just pray that it doesn't get pirated to death!!

Later, then ...

(stu.macQ)

P.S. It's heavy on the CPU and heavy on the FAT!

One thing that no-one has noted yet, is that the FM review hinted that Korg will release other VST synths to go with the Legacy Collection (presumably within the Legacy Cell).

I think that Korg have only just touched the surface so far, and that the current entry price will definitely seem a bargain later on.

As a matter of interest, what other synth would you like to see added to the L Cell??

bezza wrote:

A Wavestation VSTi on it's own at £99? I'd probably go for it.

... except that KORG is a hardware company and selling software doesn't keep your assembly-line workers employed. That's why it's a controller bundled with software - you want the software so you buy the bundle, thus keeping KORG's factory open. The're not about to cut their own throats to keep you happy.

question:

What is the build quality of the contoller? Is it like all plastic, are the keys semi-wieghted, etc??? Does it feel K-mart?

It's good to hear that the collection finally hit some artists and endusers. Please relay a bit more indepth reviews here soon. As what manufacturers or magazine care to write about, I would sooner go with what true hands-on experience and applying the collection within a studio set-up are saying about this one.

I have touched it for about 15 mins at the Messe, and yes the sound was most awesome, but I want to know more of usability, how this one blends in with the software-setup.

sickle666 wrote:

question: What is the build quality of the contoller? Is it like all plastic, are the keys semi-wieghted, etc??? Does it feel K-mart?

The controller is made of folded aluminum with plastic end-cheeks and mini keys. They're synth-action keys and not terribly expressive I don't think (though I've yet to plug the thing in). It's USB powered ONLY and there are no MIDI outs, so it's USB or nothing.

The pots move fluidly with just the right amount of resistance, and the switches feel substantial without being cumbersome. There are 10 patch-cords and a 1.5m USB cable included. It weighs what it looks like it should weigh ... and it doesn't feel either too light or too heavy.

It's not the most ruggedly built controller, but it's far from flimsy, and it is much more than an ornamental piece. I've yet to test it with the MS20 software, but when I do I'll offer more info.

Regards,

(stu.macQ)

thanks Stu! Exactly what I wanted to hear detail-wise.

kritikon wrote:

Whereas XPhraze lets you filter individual oscillators. But anyway... as mentioned, you can't run the WS VSTi through the same filters as the MS20 and Polysix sims, so it's a moot point.

I got the impression that you can use the MS20 as an effect plugin and thus route the WS and whatever through it's filters.

(Not the notes separately, of course.)

What are the seperate VST effects it's reputed to come with?

The controller issue is fine for those who want an MS20 mini clone (and from what I've read it certainly seems the business) but many people don't want to work with another controller (bizarrely enough my controller is a Korg N364 synth). What about laptop users?

I can see that Korg have to strike a balance between their hardware commitments and entering the VSTi market but to proceed the controller only route is going to put a few people off. They may be pleasantly surprised at how many individual VSTis they shift if they do (as hinted) offer the package as separate items.

Incidentally, I was offered an MS20 for £50 in 1983 but passed! Bought a Jen SX1000 instead....oops!!!!!!

Same controller as me

Anyone using this - what's it like for CPU etc? I should imagine the Wavestation uses a lot (as does XPhrase) but what about the others?

Website! wrote:

hey, i'm surprised that no one mentioned the last Future Music issue. they did a full 5 page review of this beast and it got Platinum award. guy who did it was so amazed by the sound of it that all of his markes went to RED. i honestly belive in this product and think it can't be compared with X-Phraze at all. and for 399 US$ it's unbeatable! i'm thinking of getting it and removing every other VSTi from my comp. (ok, i might leave z3ta+ ) p.s. btw. i didn't like X-Phraze at all. found it too complicated for the sound that wasn't impressive to me at all. sorry.

did you see the part that said that one instant of Legacy took up 70% of his PIV 2.5Ghz? or was it 30% in stand-by? (I might have read the 70% somewhere else)

Wonder why they haven't announced the release properly? It's not even on the front page here and until yesterday it seemed we were still waiting for it?

bezza wrote:

Incidentally, I was offered an MS20 for £50 in 1983 but passed!

Today I saw someone asking €750 for his MS20 on Advalvas Belgium! Ouch

Peter.

BONES wrote:

bezza wrote: A Wavestation VSTi on it's own at £99? I'd probably go for it. ... except that KORG is a hardware company and selling software doesn't keep your assembly-line workers employed. That's why it's a controller bundled with software - you want the software so you buy the bundle, thus keeping KORG's factory open. The're not about to cut their own throats to keep you happy.

You sound like the assembly line manager, not CFO. If you can cuty costs, cut costs. Keeping a factory open is silly when pressing CD's and putting it in a box is so much cheaper.

Devon

I got to try this today.. Very nice sounds - very high cpu usage. Some Cell presets took over 50% cpu for one voice! Wavestation stuff was around 10-20% for one voice. I think the processor was around 2ghz so that gives you an idea anyway.

I wish I could afford it, but honestly I'd need a faster computer to make full use of it anyway so I don't feel too bad. Also programming the Wavestation looks quite difficult, at least in comparison to xphraze.

I used a Wavestation AD a while ago. It was not so difficult to edit. No more than other beasts of that age. In those days I managed to work with:

the Wavestation AD
an Ensoniq VFX
a Yamaha SY22 (which still I have, and love it)
a Kawai K1rII (which still I have, and hate it)

the Wavesation was average edit hassle, the Kawai was almost not editable at all, the Yamaha was (is) a piece of cake, with some nice hidden parameters for really wild FM weirdness, but that Ensoniq... oh boy, THAT was a weird machine to edit... and quite unstable...

BTW, I guess the patches for the soft-Wavestation can be edited with one of the patches editors for the hw version, Sound Quest MIDI Quest or Galaxy or Unison and export the SYX file, which the soft version is capable of load, can anyone confirm this?

Regards!

Sounds like alot of CPU to me - needs drastically optimising methinks.... although having said that, you can happily use an MS20 in mono anyway - that's what the originals were.

But on the other other hand... how come G-Media can release a truly splendid emulation of one of the most characterful synths ever made (OSCar if you hadn't guessed, doh!), and it can be played poly for a fraction of the CPU hit and on a slower machine hmmm?

I'm sure Korg will get better at it... but they need to buck their socks up. At 50% for a mono line on a 2GHz PC - I run a 1.1GHz PC - I can run the Imposcar demo easily on it - I'll be buying it very soon - but I for one cannot run the MS20 VSTi at that greedy level of CPU. And no, I am simply not going to buy another PC yet just to run one Korg VSTi.
Jeez, they could have tripped themselves up with that one - how many people are out there with slower than 2GHz PCs? Lots I'd say. Take into account a bit of Eq here and there, a bit of delay, some dynamics, and bang! There crashes your PC - you can't use the MS20 without rendering to audio in almost any situation - how dumb.

It's Korg through and through - they come up with some great ideas - often very innovative, and then they throw in a few crucial design flaws to completely put you off the product that you want and thought they were going to give you. The Wavestation could have been one of the greatest most unique synths ever, but they left out filters! Analogue beauties like the MS10 MS20 MS50 - then they use a stupid Hz/V control system that no bugger used and the list goes on.

One of these days they'll get it right I hope. A real shame this one then, as I for one am so pleased that (it seems) they've got the sound right and made a VSTi that we all want - but they fucked it up. I can't use it - oh well, back to my real one then (it's awful, but I'm sure I can cope with full sized knobs )

i dont mind a high cpu usage if the sound is better than...you can freeze tracks to free up cpu.

its only a matter of time until your cpu eats those plugs for breakfast, same like with games.

DevonB wrote:

ttoz wrote: DevonB wrote: ttoz wrote: or just get the wavestation and enjoy the thousands and thousands of patches availbe for it around the net, which are loadable by the plug in version Only if the sounds were enjoyable. Devon dud stop trying to knock the wavestation every chance you can get ok, so xphrase is better. woop de doo. what about the other two synths and the 22 effects which are usable as normal plugins? considering a wavestation controller cost more than the price of this entire bundle? comeon, it's going to please a lot of people. i predict, HUGE hit. i'll bet on it Hey, you knock Cubase, I'll knock the bundle. The extra patches on the net weren't all that. Hell, even a lot of the commercial cards weren't all that either. If you like to program, that'll be better, but if you can't add anything to it, it does sound a bit stale, that's all. Devon

i only knock cubase cause you're always going on about how much better it is than logic and always picking on logic

actually there were some great patches on the net. kid nepro did some, greytsounds had some, plenty of freebies. i can't wait to use em all again. and the 550 factory patches it ships with, which include all the then optional expansion roms presets, are overall very useable. there's plenty of variety in there.

kritikon wrote:

You found XPhraze too complicated? OK, I can understand that - it's not the easiest to use... but you think you'll find the Wavestation easy to use????????????? It's one of the most circuitous, difficult and just plain ornery beast you will ever, ever have to program. Way more difficult than XPhraze. So FM gave it a Platinum award, hmmmm? Well, it must be good then, right?

how many times does it have to be drummed into your skulls that the user interface and ease of programmibility of the plug in version is light years ahead of the hardware one. don't be so negative until you;ve had your hands on it

Quote:

i dont mind a high cpu usage if the sound is better than...you can freeze tracks to free up cpu. its only a matter of time until your cpu eats those plugs for breakfast, same like with games.

yes, but I don't need or want Freeze - what's the point of it - it still means that at some stage you're going to unfreeze it to re-edit the whole line, if it was perfect to start with, then I wouldn't have needed to freeze it in the first place, would I? I would simply have rendered to audio. When it comes to unfreezing it, I'll already have most of the rest of the song done, which means the Eqs and the dynamics and the send FX will be running, which means I still can't use the MS20 because there will be no headroom left.

And I'm not going to upgrade my PC every year just so it can keep up with poorly optimised plugins - the cost makes no sense. What kind of marketing sense is there in releasing a plugin that will be really useful in a couple of years time, but useless now?

Korg just seem to have a bad case of pre-senile dementia. They dozed off somewhere and need a good prod to wake up. I have $600 - do I buy the Legacy package mainly for only one synth that's worth buying in the whole lot, that I need to buy another PC for? Or do I buy Imposcar for half the price, which is poly and works like a breeze on the PC I already have? Hmmmmmm difficult one that
That is exactly the kind of logic that alot of potential buyers are going to apply to it I'd have thought.

Hi

I agree with the anti-freeze (get it!) /track bounce thing when it comes to Vst's - especialy if you have a powerfull computer.

I think there are enough developers out there who consistently produce high quality and cpu efficient products for us to use in real time - without the need to restrict our working methods.

Flipper.

Wait a minute... here there are a LOT of discussion about the CPU usage over a vaguely watched demo and other speculation not taken on a really intensive proof condition.

I want to see real lab testing with full details before to blame Korg for the CPU usage...

lanark wrote:

Wait a minute... here there are a LOT of discussion about the CPU usage over a vaguely watched demo and other speculation not taken on a really intensive proof condition. I want to see real lab testing with full details before to blame Korg for the CPU usage...

If you look on the previous page,stu.macQ(who DOES own the Legacy)says the CPU usage is heavy...
ew

isnt it a little weird that out of the blue the same day that (Korg.Legacy.Collection.VSTi.v1.0.02-TALiO) comes out is the same day most of you bought your copy??? in fact not even the same day but in less then 5 hours...

you little pirates are so full of isssht i preordered my legacy and have to wait 2 more weeks while you guys prance around like you have $700 to spend....

Too right! I haven't even got my bloody NFR yet!

Quote:

how many times does it have to be drummed into your skulls that the user interface and ease of programmibility of the plug in version is light years ahead of the hardware one. don't be so negative until you;ve had your hands on it

You're right, but I don't want to get my hands on another Wavestation.

And I really want the MS20 to be good and a success at the same time. I can't go on the demo MP3s because they were of typical Korg demo standard - i.e. told me absoluteley nothing about what the MS20 sounds like. Lots of jazz funk shite that doesn't suit an MS20. I'm going only on the couple of users here who've actually got it and played on it. So it sounds like the sound (the most important bit) is good. I applaud Korg for that. I am also going on their comments about the CPU useage ( I blow a huge raspberry to Korg for that).

And I would even consider paying maybe $300 on the MS20 (possibly more, because the controller is worth the extra IMO) but I don't want a WS, I certainly don't want a Polysix, and really I don't want any s/w Korg FX that (probably, but I don't know) do anything that the FX I already have can do.

I think $300 or a little more is a fair price - I'd maybe even go to $400. For one VSTi + controller, it's not reasonable for me to pay more. I don't know - I already have an MS20 - if I didn't, I'd possibly even consider over $400!

But if the users so far are right in their posts about CPU useage - I simply cannot use it.

I really am disappointed - as I said - I want an MS20 VSTi. I think it sounds like Korg have done the job, but they just did the usual Korg thing and screwed up elsewhere. I don't want an MS20 enough to buy another PC to get it to work - for that I could probably buy a second real one, and it would last me for years like my other one.

Korg's loss, my loss.
So unless the story changes, I'll just move on and stop wanting a VSTi MS20. I can live without it. But I really really hope anyone who buys it enjoys it and has fun with it. I'm glad more people will have the chance to play with such a classic synth nowadays. When I do eventually upgrade my PC, then I'll join in the fun.

ew wrote:

lanark wrote: Wait a minute... here there are a LOT of discussion about the CPU usage over a vaguely watched demo and other speculation not taken on a really intensive proof condition. I want to see real lab testing with full details before to blame Korg for the CPU usage... If you look on the previous page,stu.macQ(who DOES own the Legacy)says the CPU usage is heavy... ew

Yes, you're true... but what it means heavy? over what host? what settings? what sample rate? what hardware? I want more detailed info... May be stu.macQ can post more detailed CPU usage info, if you're not so busy playing your brand new synths, eh stu?

Regards!

Sonar55 wrote:

isnt it a little weird that out of the blue the same day that (Korg.Legacy.Collection.VSTi.v1.0.02-TALiO) comes out is the same day most of you bought your copy??? in fact not even the same day but in less then 5 hours... you little pirates are so full of isssht i preordered my legacy and have to wait 2 more weeks while you guys prance around like you have $700 to spend....

I see ONE person who said they bought it,and one who tried it out at a music store...where's the most you're talking about?
And,AFAIK,in the US it lists for under $500-not your $700.
Go troll somewhere else...
ew

Sonar55 wrote:

Korg.Legacy.Collection.VSTi.v1.0.02-TALiO

Fake, Korg conspiracy

ok, lets say stu dl'd the talio version... How the fuck did he get the controller to donwload... even on cable, that's gotta take some time!

spoonboiler wrote:

ok, lets say stu dl'd the talio version... How the fuck did he get the controller to donwload... even on cable, that's gotta take some time!

And a thick cable to pass it through.Where's JDub with an apt description when we need him?
ew

thick cable???
pass it through??
jdub???
oh my gosh - I can hear him now.
what material!

ew

Sonar55 wrote:

isnt it a little weird that out of the blue the same day that (Korg.Legacy.Collection.VSTi.v1.0.02-TALiO) comes out is the same day most of you bought your copy??? in fact not even the same day but in less then 5 hours... you little pirates are so full of isssht i preordered my legacy and have to wait 2 more weeks while you guys prance around like you have $700 to spend....

Haha ... are you serious? That is funny. I'm sitting here with the damn thing sitting next to me. I'm no pirate, my friend. I can describe the box in detail ... I can even read you the manual(s) if you'd like.

Some people do have it. Like me.

You'll love it when you finally get it, though ... believe me!

EDIT: I was wrong. CPU usage is actually quite reasonable under Cubase SX, though I noticed some spikes under FL Studio. Strange. The Legacy Cell idles at about 7% CPU usage on my Athlon XP 2800+ (1.5 GB RAM), and despite my trying, I've yet to crack 40% CPU with most patches. There are some INCREDIBLY thick sounds that I can make suck the CPU, but no more than something like Z3ta+ for instance. When you want HUGE sound, you generally have to suffer the CPU consequences.

The more I play with it, the more I like it ... and the more I'm amazed the software sounds so good. It's as much about the FX as it is about the synths ... as the FX just make everything sound so much more expensive! The MS-20 is SMOOOOOTH, though ... really nice. And it "feels" analog to me ... not like I'm playing with a thin piece of software at all.

As always, your mileage may vary, but it'll be finding it's way into MY new tracks! Money well spent!

Rock on,

(stu.macQ)

P.S. I paid $695 Canadian + tax. $700 CAD, not $700USD.

The Legacy Collection has not shipped yet in the US - we expect to be ready to ship by the end of this week.

US List price is $625, approx. street price should be around $499.

The CMT-based synths (MS-20 and Polysix require a bit more CPU useage as our CMT modelling technique is very detailed, and perhaps a bit "expensive", but that's what makes them sound so good. The Legacy Cell which combines two CMT synths is what drove up our requirements, your mileage per sound will certainly vary. We have to take a "worst case" scenario so that you aren't upset later when you use it.

The Wavestation is not CMT-based and is lighter on the PCU.

There's a total of 20 effects included - 19 taken from the Legacy Cell, and then the MS-20 when used as an effect plug-in.

We'll be posting a bunch of single sound demos to korg.com shortly. We're getting caught up.

I'll be back to officially announce US shipping shortly.

Back to your discussion, already in progress!


Jerry Kovarsky

Thanks for the info,Jerry!It's nice to have an official Korg presence here
ew

ew wrote:

Thanks for the info,Jerry!It's nice to have an official Korg presence here

I "met" him via the Clonewheel discussion (I used to own a CX-3) several years ago, definitely a good guy, very helpful too.

Doug

It IS shipping in Canada, however ... and that seems to be a first! I've never had a synth before anyone on K-v-R! I must be among the first to register!

(stu.macQ)

Sonar55 wrote:

isnt it a little weird that out of the blue the same day that (Korg.Legacy.Collection.VSTi.v1.0.02-TALiO) comes out is the same day most of you bought your copy??? in fact not even the same day but in less then 5 hours... you little pirates are so full of isssht i preordered my legacy and have to wait 2 more weeks while you guys prance around like you have $700 to spend....

can't handle that someone has it before you little sonar boy? it's ok somehow you will manage to cope you troll. oh, and how the fuck did YOU know whatg the naughty version's installer name was?

oh yeah?? well, how did YOU know he was right??? huh? Are you a pirate?
For that matter, how did I know that you were right about him being right???? huh??? explain that one!!! I must be a pirate...!

Guys, guys! Stop it already!
Let's get back to discussing the product.

Stu, have you tried importing WS patches?
Can you use the controller as a general CC controller for other VSTi's?
Is there MIDI learn in the synths/FX?

About the CPU usage, I would have no problem with relatively high CPU usage if that means richer sound. I am used to the tradeoff with the Oasys card (DSP usage in this case).

There are dozens of mediocre sounding synths out there already.

spoonboiler wrote:

oh yeah?? well, how did YOU know he was right??? huh? Are you a pirate? For that matter, how did I know that you were right about him being right???? huh??? explain that one!!! I must be a pirate...!

i know he was right, cause seeing as I am on mac, i thought it really useful to download a copy of the pc version for myself

spritex wrote:

Stu, have you tried importing WS patches?

yep, i'd like to know how reliable this feature is too.

spritex wrote:

There are dozens of mediocre sounding synths out there already.

ain't that the truth

folks,

i used to own a hardware ws those days and loved it. i remember some quote like "xphraze is like a ws on steroids" a bunch of months ago in this very forum...

after all i know, the legacy ws sounds pretty much like the hardware; how does xphraze sound in direct comparison? and which are the killer features of xphraze which could make me change my mind and *not* order the legacy bundle?

(okay: killer feature #1 would be sample import; i wished they'd included that in the legacy ws...)

maybe some day someone is bored enough to code a ws-2-xphraze patch converter

isdjan wrote:

folks, i used to own a hardware ws those days and loved it. i remember some quote like "xphraze is like a ws on steroids" a bunch of months ago in this very forum... after all i know, the legacy ws sounds pretty much like the hardware; how does xphraze sound in direct comparison? and which are the killer features of xphraze which could make me change my mind and *not* order the legacy bundle? (okay: killer feature #1 would be sample import; i wished they'd included that in the legacy ws...) maybe some day someone is bored enough to code a ws-2-xphraze patch converter

yes, xphrase has killer feature #1, sample import.
never having owned a wavestation, I don't know how they compare.

bluedad wrote:

isdjan wrote: [...] how does xphraze sound in direct comparison? and which are the killer features of xphraze which could make me change my mind and *not* order the legacy bundle? (okay: killer feature #1 would be sample import; i wished they'd included that in the legacy ws...) [...] yes, xphrase has killer feature #1, sample import. never having owned a wavestation, I don't know how they compare.

well - both do offer phrazes, both do offer some vector mixing...according to the specs and architecture, i'd doubt i need both of them. well - the ws emulation seems to be accurate enough not to offer decent filters. now that's a shame.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Korg made an update to the WS VSTi later on, if they sell well enough.

Right now it seems intented to be 100% copy of the original WS (SR) but with better editing interface and cleaner sound.

To Jerry:

While I owned an EX for years, the wavestation I always wanted was an A/D because it allowed you to route external audio into the wavestation's engine. For those that don't know the wavestation, this had two possible applications: access to the wavestation's effects and the use of external audio in wavesequencing. So my main question is: does the wavestation plugin allow you to route an audio stream through its engine? If so, is external an input to the effects engine, the wavesequencer or both?

Finally, I really loved the sound of the wavestation's effects. They were hard and metallic and gritty. So, did you use the original effects algorithms as the basis for the plugin's or are these just general effects algorithms?

Thanks in advance.

Ah, a tiny bit of research has answered my question and throroughly disappointed me: it doesn't seem that the wavestation can interact with external audio at all...

Is there any plan to add A/D type features later Jerry?

There are separate VST FX in the bundle, you know. I wonder if they are more or less the same that are inside the Wavestation VSTi?

isdjan wrote:

maybe some day someone is bored enough to code a ws-2-xphraze patch converter

Won't do one bit of good. The WS had 365 PCM waveforms and the EX/AD/SR had 484 PCM waveforms, all of which are copyrighted to Korg. The WS also had 49 effects, and the EX/AD/SR had 55 effects. But, no waveforms = pointless conversion. I think what most of us were hoping (I owned a Wavestation WS for about 5 years myself) that it included resonant filters. Xphrase is obviously easier to program as well than the hardware Wavestation. I'm very curious to see the interface of the Wavestation and its editing in action though. The biggest advantage of WS over Xphrase is the massive amount of MORE pathces available for it. I'm not sure of the WS for the bunlde allows sample import into it?

Either way, I'd still like to check it out.

Devon

To Jerry:

Thanks for jumping in and giving some info.

i do have only two questions really.

will a dual mac 1.42 g4 with logic 6 and osx 10.3.3 work ok with this?

and secondly, i noticed for the ms20 and polysix the preset list is very small. are there any plans to release more presets?

stu.macQ wrote:

EDIT: I was wrong. CPU usage is actually quite reasonable under Cubase SX, though I noticed some spikes under FL Studio. Strange. The Legacy Cell idles at about 7% CPU usage on my Athlon XP 2800+ (1.5 GB RAM), and despite my trying, I've yet to crack 40% CPU with most patches. There are some INCREDIBLY thick sounds that I can make suck the CPU, but no more than something like Z3ta+ for instance. When you want HUGE sound, you generally have to suffer the CPU consequences.

Thank you very much, stu, now I have a more clear picture. I'm pleased that the Korg guys have done such a good work as it seems, and Jerry presence here is a point too. Having buy only two Korg machines on my life (the Wavestation and a Poly 800), I'm anyway very trusting on Korg professionality and excelence. Korg and Yamaha appears as the most reliable companies on the hardware synth side, almost on the digital machnes at the time when I had the time and the money for go all h/w, and of course, the soft synthesis was a lab obscure thing reserved to the CSound guys at MIT

Regards!

ttoz wrote:

To Jerry: i do have only two questions really. will a dual mac 1.42 g4 with logic 6 and osx 10.3.3 work ok with this?

Yes, should be fine.

Quote:

and secondly, i noticed for the ms20 and polysix the preset list is very small. are there any plans to release more presets?

Yes, we are working on more sounds, and they will be made available to all registered users.

Regards,

Jerry

suthnear wrote:

To Jerry: So my main question is: does the wavestation plugin allow you to route an audio stream through its engine? If so, is external an input to the effects engine, the wavesequencer or both?

As you figured out, no there is not.

Quote:

Finally, I really loved the sound of the wavestation's effects. They were hard and metallic and gritty. So, did you use the original effects algorithms as the basis for the plugin's or are these just general effects algorithms?

We converted ALL of the original effects - it is a 100% recreation of the product.

The other effects in the package (used as Inserts/Masters in the Cell and available as seperate plug-in, the MDE-X) are Korg original effects, some taken from the Trinity/Triton code and others newly created.

Regards,

Jerry

suthnear wrote:

Is there any plan to add A/D type features later Jerry?

We have no firm plans for that right now. There's a lot of places we can go in the future, but nothing is "concrete" right now. We always listen to what you want so feel free to offer suggestions etc. I won't answer every post/comment but we do read and asorb.

Thanks.

Jerry

A/D features WOULD be nice,along with sample import and resonant filters.Some of the best sounds I ever got out of my A/D were routing half of the performance through the second set of outputs and into my microQ(to use the microQ's filters),and THEN into the A/D's ins and through the main outs.
I'm looking to playing with the Legacy when it shows up at a store by me.Until then,I've got Xphraze
ew

jerrythek wrote:

Yes, we are working on more sounds, and they will be made available to all registered users. Regards, Jerry

cause apparently the guy that did the 128 cell presets is a genius at preset construction

kritikon wrote:

how come G-Media can release a truly splendid emulation of one of the most characterful synths ever made (OSCar if you hadn't guessed, doh!), and it can be played poly for a fraction of the CPU hit and on a slower machine hmmm?

I think you're being a little unfair.. There are a couple of things to bear in mind here. Cell presets can consist of two analog synths with two insert effects and one additional master effect.
Also, - and as much as I like my impOSCar - it's worth remembering that the OSCar is a hybrid digital/analog synth. The only real analog part is the filters. I suspect that this helped make the impOSCar the CPU-friendly joy that it is.



Yesterday my mate lent me his copy of FutureMusic magazine, so I got to listen to the included Korg legacy demos; but before I get to those.. I can't help thinking that it seems a tad suspicious that FM has a "WORLD EXCLUSIVE REVIEW" for this product, and that the review was also available - for anyone to read - via a link on Korg's website before the product was even released... Call me Mr Cynical if you like, but this conjures up images of secret dinners and don't-mind-if-I-do backhanders... Hmm...

Anyway, the FM coverdisc includes three demo sounds each from the three individual synths + cell. I wish I could make these demos available for you all to hear, but that would probably be copyright violation. That said, I guess there's nothing stopping lucky legacy owners uploading their own recordings of their favourite sounds...


Track 01: Legacy Cell
Deepsearchin, Morphing Minor7th, Velosync lead

Liked the last one. It screams in a weird electronic way (unlike impOSCar) that reminds me of the Oddity.


Track 02: Ms20
Darkside x bass, FB Dist Lead, Kick

The first sound is pretty good, but was quickly overshadowed by the second one. WOW! An aggressive lead with an amazing rubber-like (rubber-like?!) quality. Okay, so I don't know how much the effects have to do with the sound, and I don't even know how to properly describe the sound, but I chuffin' love it!


Track 03: Poly 6
Square bass, Square hollow pad, VCF Oscillation

The second sound was vaguely interesting, but there was nothing here that sounded like that pad on the last part of the ArrdnSoft demo (available from Korg's website). Perhaps I'd wrongly attributed that sound to the Poly 6, or perhaps it was a cell sound.


Track 04: WS (Wavestation)
Cats eye, Dubussy on wheels, Friptronix

I have to say that I first saw the WS at a music show back in the early nineties. I found it's design looked unusually appealing compared to the other synths I remember from that time. Unfortunately a quick play with a few of the presets was enough to make me rush off to join the queue to demo Cheetah's MS6 analog beastie (analog synths were what everyone wanted back then, you know. Not like today, erm...)
Anyway, back to the present: The first sound immediately brings back memories of that disappointing demo. Who the hell wants loads of sounds that go 'wigga chigga chigga' all the time?! Well, some people do, obviously....but not me, that's for sure.
Then I get to the second sound.... Okay, now I've heard sounds described in so many ways before, from the 'warm' and 'fat', through the 'smooth' and on to the 'thin' and 'cold'. I've learnt from my time here that these descriptions are very subjective. But just hearing 'Dubussy on wheels' forces me to agree absolutely with the reviewer's remarks about the WS: "starkly beautiful tones that shine like the Mediterranean sun". Yep, I like it. I like it a LOT! And it's usable..
I love the look of the interface, too (up there with impOSCar in that department). I just hope it manages to fit on my screen okay..

Damn! I really desire the WS now! Never thought I would, to be honest. I think this kinda sums up how things have changed for me over the years. Different synths have always - to varying degrees - had different sounds and characters. Before the VST revolution I would always be looking for the synths that gave the biggest bang-per-buck; the jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none synths, because I simply couldn't afford and had little room for loads of gear which was of relatively limited use. But these days I can listen to something like the WS and even if I only hear one sound that I really like, then that's reason enough to have it.

ttoz wrote:

cause apparently the guy that did the 128 cell presets is a genius at preset construction

There's two banks of Legacy Cell sounds, so that's 256...

There were a number of programmers, not just one guy. But they're all pretty good if you ask me...



regards,

Jerry

jerrythek wrote:

ttoz wrote: cause apparently the guy that did the 128 cell presets is a genius at preset construction There's two banks of Legacy Cell sounds, so that's 256... There were a number of programmers, not just one guy. But they're all pretty good if you ask me... regards, Jerry

even better news. i was just going on the info in the future music review

Tempted as I am by the MS20 & controller, I don't need Legacy Cells, a Poly Six or a Wavestation...
(who needs Legacy Cells if you allready have EnergyXT...)

Will the MS20 ever be sold seperately?

Nice to see a Korg-er at the forum.

I too would like the option to buy single elements of the Legacy collection. Perhaps you could offer preferential prices to established Korg users (like, erm....me)?????!!!!!!

I was never a big fan of the PolySix. I always thought that it was the poor relation to the Roland Juno 6 which was a much bigger seller at the time. I think the MS will be lost without the Controller. I have only heard the demo so far. It seemed a little non-descript as most demos. My mate has a real Wavestation and this is a completely different kettle of fish. The Original is quite a little play machine with the JoyStick in all. This leaves me with real expectation. I suspect that it will be a bit of a success story for Korg who are now biting the bullet of the change in the industry.

Yup, it is good to see a Korg person here. I've been less than flattering about the collection, but that's only because my desire for a s/w MS20 has been thwarted.

So I'll add to the chorus - are you going to offer them as individual releases? I'm sure you'll sell more that way. The option of the MS20 with and without controller should be considered too. I have a real one, so I don't really need another controller - I can use the real one for serious mad knob-twiddling, and a plain VSTi for less (shall we say?) flamboyant sounds. And then there are plenty who will also want the controller of course.

But I just don't see that many people wanting to have a complete set of the 3 VSTis - WS and MS20 just don't complement each other. The WS is distinctly cold and digital (not a bad thing at all). Within certain styles that can be its real advantage, but it (almost) follows that anyone using the evolving weird textures (which are very subtle) of a WS won't want to drown it out with a screaming MS20 over the top. (If the Imposcar screams like Bhaaaaaaaaastard, then an MS20 screams like a complete and utter c**t ) sparkly gently shimmering pads really don't sit well with screaming c**ts, do they?

And drop the Polysix please. But a MonoPoly - mmmm tasty, that would be - I wantssssss. But as a separate thing, not bundled with a Micro or a Prophet or a PSS3000 for heaven's sake.

PugFace wrote:

I was never a big fan of the PolySix. I always thought that it was the poor relation to the Roland Juno 6 which was a much bigger seller at the time.

Although similar in architecture, the Polysix had a very different sound from the Rolands. It was rough, rude, and gritty -- a major contrast to the lush smoothness of the Rolands. The Polysix is much more suited to rock than dedicated electronic music. Having said that, I love the ensemble effect, which can come very close to that gorgeous ARP/Eminent string synth sound.

The Polysix was a huge and unexpected success back in the day, and Korg sold thousands of them. This is *the* synth that put Korg on the map, which I presume is why it was included in the collection (believe it or not, but the MS-20 was not taken seriously when it first came out). The Monopoly, which Korg thought would be a runaway hit, was largely ignored even though we all agree today that it was magnificent. Monosynths were rapidly going out of style in the early 80s, and it really was all about cheap polyphony back then. If it could play six notes for less than two grand, everyone would snap it up...

Hey stu, did you try the SYX import feature of the WS?
I'm really interested, now the nostalgia dept of my brain ask for rescuing that old patches...

May be that only make me buy the package?? mmmmmmm I don't know...

One thing I would like to know - I sent an email to Korg UK asking them but never had a response back.

Any plans to include (or are they included already) the PCM waveforms on the three PCM cards (or even the 01/w/SR format cards)?

I really would like a virtual Wavestation to replace my much-loved real one, but if I can't use many of my patches that require the Synth/Timeslice card then I wouldn't find it so useful...

hey ben I imported some of your wavestation presets today, really good stuff.

If you have legacy, click on bens site for patches !

Cool - glad you like them, and they will live on with the release of the Legacy. Wavestation's are great synths, as long as you avoid the boom-chika-chika "Ski Jam" type sounds

I also don't agree that WS were hard to program, they are in essence quite simple synths and I used to fly around when programming mine. I find something like my XV5080 far deeper to program.

I'm definitely interested in the Legacy stuff, but don't really want the controller (just bought a microKontrol which is far sexier).

How accurate would you say the import is? Sounds like a great way to expand on the original 256 presets. There's a hell of a lot of syx patches on that site - will they all import succesfully? Also can the MS20 and Polysix import patches from their hardware versions?

Like I said in my earlier question, the vast majority should work fine if Korg have done their job properly - the only ones that may give problems are ones that rely on expanded PCM waves from the PCM cards - some of mine do, for instance (and I'm not selling my Synth/Timeslice card just yet..

Do check out those Wavestation banks, as there is some really good stuff there, and you should be able to mangle them up real good with all sorts of effects in your DAW as well.

Incidentally, I'm expecting the sounds in the Legacy to be first class, Korg's voicing team is one of the best in the world.

ben - got any comments on the microKontrol? hit me up privately or reply to a thread i started on it: http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopi