Hi,

i am about to decide to buy another synth and i am stuck in my unability to decide

I have RGC Audios P1 and z3ta+, the Waldorf Bundle, Ethereal by Concrete FX, Impulse, da Alpha, the good magazinware (Carbon, microTera, Tassman, DS 404) and of course good freebies, so my basic setup is more than adquate for my project (some sort of rough and melodic industrial, direction FLA or Skinny Puppy, with the fun in creating weird sounds).
I want another synth with these qualities:

1.) rather low on the CPU and RAM
2.) somewhat small GUI
3.) original, different sound and quite versatile
4.) maximum price point around 60 Dollars or Euro

My choices are at the moment:

1.) REFX PlastiCZ
+ original sound, no CPU usage, versatile, good looking, surprisingly musical

- soundwise doesnt work with all synths, no updates for a long time

2.) VAZ+
+ powerful raw analogish sound, very universal thanks to options, sequencer and sample import, good GUI
- not too different soundwise to P1 and especially Attack (synth section)

3.) Nusofting Mothership
+ beautiful original sounds, no CPU usage, price, Liquih a very nice guy
- not too universal

Any hint anybody or another proposal - i demo-d them all but long-time users can certainly say more.
Also - i am open for other options or even reselling offers

Thanks, Richard

VanLichten wrote:

My choices are at the moment: 1.) REFX PlastiCZ + original sound, no CPU usage, versatile, good looking, surprisingly musical - soundwise doesnt work with all synths, no updates for a long time

No CPU usage! Don't know who misinformed you there but PlasticZ can be a hog. I love it but it is CPU hungry.

Also, what did you mean by 'doesnt work with all synths'? It IS a synth!!

PlasticZ has been out for a while now - why not go for Vanguard by ReFX? I'm about to order it myself.

I would spend 199 Euro and buy Reaktor Session One.

Check out Groovecube Exciton. A bit more than 60, being 75 US dollars, so probably with the exchange, right on target now that I'm thinking about it. I did a review of the synth on www.traxmusic.org if you want to read about it, and they have a functioning demo. Check it out. Cool little synth with a bit of character.

Devon

At your price range, you may want to give Anamark 2 a try. It is pretty powerful for the price and has a different sound. http://www.mark-henning.de/

Phil.

Many Thanks for the help so far.
By "PlastiCZ doesnt work with all synths" i meant the sound, it seems rather difficult to mix the Synth (Demo) with other synths, especially Attack and PPG.
I really thought it is extremly light on the CPU - thank you for the hint.
I considered Vanguard also - seems quite a workhorse for me, but a bit more than i want to spend, though, and i had the impression that its not too different from Pentagon or z3ta+ soundwise.
I love to purchase Reaktor Session, but its far above my current budget...
DevonB, i considered Exciton (and read your nice review ) - but didnt like the sound so much, sort of edgy, but i heard only the basic presets, being not a good programmer myself.
I checked out Anamark a while ago, a lot of sound for the price, but then had the impression that that kind of hard sound i could obtain rather simple with sending Pentagon or z3ta + through some of the earlier synthedit effects...


Thanks, Richard

Plasticz is not vesatile enough. It ain't CPU friendly. The best around at the moment is Absynth, Reaktor or the Korg Legacy Collection for value for money. The CS80v and Minimoog v are not good value but give brilliant emulations and have bugs in them at the moment. The CS80V arpeg does not sync properly and the Minimoog crashes. Also the Oddity is limited in it's sonic abilities but a great emulator.

I have just discovered the Synth One and it is free. This little beast leaves MOST purchased stuff behind in the analog emulation stakes.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-SanJose/5005/softsynth/
Seriously, the controlled distortion applied to the OSCs in this Synth makes truly one of the best sounding Synths around. The arpeg is absolutely bang on and very very playable and versatile. Since i started buying the Soft Synths a have gone back to using some of the freeware synths. This synth sounds better than the Plasticz.

Thanks for the advice. The others you mentioned are out of my price range and I have synth one but it is rather a love/hate relationship - it sounds great technically, but like a nord lead, and i dont really love that sound, it lacks character for me. VAz plus sounds way better in the VA realm, for example.

Richard

Hmmm.

Looking at your list of already-owned synths, I would wonder why you need to buy a new one at all. You've already got a lot of sound choices there. And since you're making industrial/EBM style music, it's always been my experience that said styles are best when you limit your instrument count and really push a few instruments hard.

I would suggest one of two things:

- save your money, and take some time to dig a bit deeper into the synths you already have; or

- since you didn't mention what effects you have, consider getting some good effects. Maybe check out delaydots, you could get both the Spectral and Sound Designer's bundles for $75, or a multiFX unit like SuperCamelPhat for $49, or Debaser for $50, or FXDesigner from Spinaudio.

Cheers,
Steve

Since you are an rgcaudio customer, why not get sfz+? It is only slightly out of your range. There are lots of free soundfonts that will give you a large selection or sounds.

Phil.

Thanks for the input.
I dont do my music "head first" and plan to, say, do an album to get commercial success and plan my "style" on a block of paper- in this case even some instances of synth 1 would do perfectly for a hole "band" or album, i guess.
For me it is a passion about sound and creativity, knobbling here, pushing there, see what happens, make a song of it. The magic moments happen in playing with these little toys, and therefore i search for another cheap something with some magic in it.
(BTW, all good music comes IMO from enjoying and playing like a child, even industrial - i mean the really good industrial records like Coil or Skinny Puppy, not the average 4-on the floor EBM with "Quadrafuzz"-Vokals).

But saving my money is always an option, i guess..perhaps i ´ll go for some fx. I own the Spinaudio - Bundle (Essential FX) which gives more than enough in terms of basic FX.
SuperCamelPhat is certainly nice, i know the free one.
Didn't now about Delaydots, i will check them out, thanks.
SFZ+ is very good, for sure, but i have DS 404 which fits all my sampling needs perfectly.

Any VAZ+ - Users or Mothership owners around to comment a bit on them ?

Richard

What about Digital or Adder from ConcreteFX. Really overlooked synths that are complete monsters. Can sound quite normal or ,taking advantage of the insane modulation possibilities, like Godzillas rabid inbred cousin

Thanks and yes, i demo-d them both, these two are really good, and i love Johns stuff, but they are both HARD on the CPU - two notes of adder on some presets, and my CPU (Duron 1,3) takes some days off...but perhaps i will go for one of these, most likely digital.

Richard

if you're considering plasticz, why no just get Vanguard? That's a killer synth..but might not be too light on CPU though..

VanLichten wrote:

DevonB, i considered Exciton (and read your nice review ) - but didnt like the sound so much, sort of edgy, but i heard only the basic presets, being not a good programmer myself.

That's cool. I rarely ever hear people mention it, and its character is so 'different', it's pretty cool. But either ya like it, or ya don't.

Devon

VanLichten wrote:

3.) Nusofting Mothership + beautiful original sounds, no CPU usage, price, Liquih a very nice guy - not too universal

Yes, very cool synth, and very versatile. Im in the process of doing a bank and new demo tune to showcase the sounds.

Vanguard - perhaps, yes, the basic sound of REFX synths is quite similar, and it seems really good.
I certainly would have bought JUNOX - damm Roland Company 8 (i thinks it was them) - Vanguard seems its follow-on, but the supplied presets in the demo are soo boring - instant trance music or what - Junox sounded like something a swedish death metal weirdo would invent - after setting fire to the local church..

Richard

I'll agree with the amazing one here-Mothership is tons of fun.Even better-talk to Liqih and have him do a bundle deal on Mothership and FatMachine(if you aren't a FLStudio user that is-FatMachine and FLS have issues).Mothership is great for pads,but I like FatMachine much more for leads and basses
ew

VanLichten wrote:

Vanguard - perhaps, yes, the basic sound of REFX synths is quite similar, and it seems really good. I certainly would have bought JUNOX - damm Roland Company 8 (i thinks it was them) - Vanguard seems its follow-on, but the supplied presets in the demo are soo boring - instant trance music or what - Junox sounded like something a swedish death metal weirdo would invent - after setting fire to the local church.. Richard

There's also QUITE a few other 'non-trance' banks out there for Vanguard. I did a bank of 32 that's available on Patch Arena available for download. It ain't trance. Thing is, LOTS of synths can do trance sounds, just not all have the banks.

Devon

Hey great, (Edited) two mothership owners.
Motherships for me seems specialized on Pads and i didn't see much difference to Fat Machine (which i also demod).
Have i overlooked something there ?

DevonB, i check out your non-trance bank for the REFX Vanguard if the demo loads it, and yes, Exciton doesnt seem to get much recognition, but i noticed quite a few banks for it at patcharena, perhaps it is the NO.1- Seller in Japan...

Richard

VanLichten wrote:

Hey great, a mothership owner. Criminal, Motherships for me seems specialized on Pads. Have i overlooked something there ? Richard

Thats what i thought, wait for my new bank

VanLichten wrote:

BTW, all good music comes IMO from enjoying and playing like a child, even industrial - i mean the really good industrial records like Coil or Skinny Puppy, not the average 4-on the floor EBM with "Quadrafuzz"-Vokals

True enough, but both Skinny Puppy and Coil were able to do a lot with modest setups. I was sort of suggesting really digging into the programming of the synths you have. Unlimited possibilities there.

VanLichten wrote:

Any VAZ+ - Users or Mothership owners around to comment a bit on them?

I have Vaz+ 1.7 (pre-VST/stereo). It was in fact the first softsynth I ever purchased (sniff). Big, excellent sound, really easy to use. I've never tried v2.

Definitely try it out, or save up some pennies for the more advanced versions (I'm a modular user, have been for years. Love it to bits, and new v3 features are fantastic.)

Cheers,
Steve

Like Devon said, there is a boatload of sounds you can get from Vanguard. Yes, it's Juno's next-gen, yes, it's geared towards trance stuff, but it's not limited to it by any means.

Also, I second the vote for Exciton. That was one of my first synths & I still love it.

Hey Criminal, i will wait for your Mothership bank before i decide anything.
Shamann / Steve, do you know anything about the synths coil used or use - would be interesting, i really love them, even if i dont know even half of their (or his) work - than again, who could..
VAZ Modular is the biz for certain, i am sure, but it's much to much money for me now and in the near future - but sometimes.... (grin and dream).
Your website seems interesting, Steve, does your ambient drone music venture in the coil direction ?
I'll visit it sometimes when i have another computer to listen to the sounds, for sure.

Thanks for all the input !

Richard

Ya, I've heard Vaz Modular. Amazing sound!

So many options, so little money.

Devon

The differences are slight but significant.FatMachine has a four pole lowpass filter instead of a two pole multimode filter like Mothership does.It has a mono legato mode which Mothership doesn't.And while it doesn't have the chorus and delay of Mothership,it has a great pre-filter distortion section.
ew

EW, thanks for clarifying that, i give it another go, perhaps Liqih will give me a good bundle offer - as i know him, he most likely will, in fact.

You have enough synths already

VanLichten wrote:

Shamann / Steve, do you know anything about the synths coil used or use - would be interesting, i really love them, even if i dont know even half of their (or his) work - than again, who could..

Not easy to find Coil gear lists. I know they always used lots of tape and samplers and effects.

There's an old (1987) Keyboard magazine interview on their website that has this list:

Quote:

For Horse Rotorvator, the conned machines include a Fairlight II and III for sequencing and editing, Emulator II as the main sound generator, Yamaha DX7, PPG Wave 2.2, and an EMS Synthi for the heavy, distorted sounds. "The Synthi," Christopherson says, "was like a portable version of their VCS-3 from '72. it has a collection of VCAs and ring modulators. The way you connect the oscillators and filters is via a matrix board, where you put pins in to make the connections." Additional artillery included "a few old Woolworth's-type flangers and distortion pedals."

And then there is this:

VanLichten wrote:

Your website seems interesting, Steve, does your ambient drone music venture in the coil direction ? I'll visit it sometimes when i have another computer to listen to the sounds, for sure.

No real content there, yet. I really need to get cracking on putting it together. My drone stuff isn't really Coil-like. I don't generally work with found sounds, more cut-up/distorted synths and abused effects. BTW, my other, poppier Esau Radio Studio stuff is all down with Vaz Modular.

Cheers,
Steve

So coil really used top gear in its time, it appears..really interesting.
Fascinating band - i read some of the interwies and they really have to say something.
They are one of the few bands who really seem to go into the crowleian magick / occult things, unlike so many others who played with occult imagery, and many of the tracks have some weird "air" - Psychonauts..
The only other band i know of were Fields of the Nephilim, old english goth heroes - their "Elyzium" is still my favourite album ever and could hardly be topped in being unearthly.

As soon as i have bigger download possibilities, i see if i visite your website and listen to the tracks, one for hearing VAZ in action and second for my interest in shamanism and conscious-altering tunes in general.

Richard

JX Synth for big bad leads and crunchy pads. Meaty goodness for only $25! It used to seem like a CPU hog but compared to a lot of newer synths it isn't too bad. I also use PlastiCZ! quite a lot and we do ELECTRO-INDUSTRIAL stuff too. I don't know what freebies you use but PolyIblit is great for those kind of basslines and my little killerz have been specially formulated for this genre. I would particularly recommend iDkILLER and FEARkILLER. The other synth that may interest you is SCORPION.

VanLichten wrote:

As soon as i have bigger download possibilities, i see if i visite your website and listen to the tracks, one for hearing VAZ in action and second for my interest in shamanism and conscious-altering tunes in general.

I must confess that, while I've read a book or two on shamanism and find it interesting, my name is Steve Hamann, and so my alias here is really just my standard network username.

I do aspire to make psychedelic/transcendental music of all kinds, however, so feel free to dig in when you have a chance.

Cheers,
Steve

Steve, nice I.D:
Bones, thanks for the input. I demo-d JX synth some time ago, but like the small one (JX 220), it has a certain sound to it i dont like much, the same with Scorpion - they are good but somewhat boring.
I have your Killerz which are very nice.

Polyiblit is amazing - i had this on my HD for a long time but didnt like it at first sight - i thought it lacked character soundwise and looked like a refrigerator...
I recently used it in a song and it really really worked well - it has power, presence, fine bass and warmth to it - i think its one of the best VAs at all, way better than Synth 1.
Still the GUI is absolutely boring .

Richard

despite the pricing - ever considered virsyn tera? looks quite versatile.

Yes, tera is great for sure - i think it has the most beautiful sound i have ever heard from a synth, which might be a bonus or a drawback...
But it is to pricey for me, a CPU hog and i have microtera which can do quite a broad range of sounds, in this regions i would probably go with VAZ 2010, Imposcar or Albino or Reaktor Session or...

Rich

Hello Richard,

Have you checked http://www.sinte-virtual.com/evmsynths/index.htm ?...

I think there are some really nice synths in there specially for its money.



mlon

No, didnt know about these.
Really look good - quite some synths for the money, and recently SE synths have become good.

Thanks ! - Will check them.
Are they usable and not too CPU-hungry ?

Richard

How did I miss this thread?

3 words - ImPOSCar, ImpOSCar, ImpOSCar.

OK it's a little more than the 60 Euros budget, but not much more. And it's one of the most flexible and character synths in its price range (and well above its price range)

The OSCar was one of the most collectible synths for anything dance related, and with good reason. It could do all of the usual sounds, but it also had immense character for it's own type of sound. It can give searing screaming nasty sounds as well as subtle sounds, so it certainly isn't limited to dance. And the GMedia emulation is one of the best in terms of reproduction of the actual sound of an analogue synth- it's a real beaut, and it's now poly (the original was only duophonic).

It doesn't eat much CPU, so you can use several instances. It has a great GUI - like the original - well set out with sections for the envelopes, filters, modulation, and lots of esoteric functions too. The OSCar was my all time favourite of any of my old synths, both in terms of sound and ease of use and fun to play. And ImpOSCar emulates all of that extremely well.

For my tastes, there is nothing beyond it unless you go for modular synths. (apart from maybe the new Korg MS20 VSTi) but the MS20 wasn't and isn't quite as flexible as the OSCar - but it has its own distinct character.

Not that there aren't other very good synths around, but you tend to pay a bit more, and need more head-scratching to get the best out of them, whereas ImpOSCar will be up and running in an instant to give you a huge range of sounds.

If I had to name other VSTis then I'd mention Linplug Albino (lots of good patches, and flexible, and quite smooth sounding, but to my ears not as big a range as ImpOSCar), Arturia CS80v (but not as easy to program), As you mentioned industrial - Z3ta...very good for nasty sounds. And N.I. do some good 'uns (but I hear much grumbling about their stability to date.)

Thanks for the input !
I demo-d Imposcar a while ago and was damm impressed
- great and extremly diverse sounds, and can bite.
It seems similar to the PPG, not soundwise, but in its range of possibilities.
However, it is some way beyond my budget (i think its around 150 Euro ?)

Lets see what my bank says..

re: microTera

This little freebie constantly amazes me.

It can't do everything, but it can do quite a lot and sounds good doing it. Has a nice fm-like quality coming at it from a differnt direction

I have a full 128 preset bank up at patcharena and am slowly working on another that concentrates a bit more on what I think it can do really well -- the struck and plucked: E-pianos, basses and the occasional almost layered pad.

Your Microtera bank is great !
I am looking forward to the next one.
Nice synth, really, also good at brass-like-sounds - amazingly good-sounding, in fact, makes me wish for the money for tera 2.
However, its really CPU-hungry, and the sound is very much on the beautifulll....side; not really usable evertime.

Richard

Last week I bought impOSCar that´s a hell of a synth.
My favourite comercialsynths is:
1. impOSCar
2. Novation V-station
3. Absynth2
4. Pro-53

My favourite free synths are:
1. Synth1
2. Triangle2
3. Tau

My favourite drumsampler/synths are:
1. Lin Plug RMIV
2. FXPansion DR-008
3. Groove Agent

But there is another solution!
If you use Cubase for example you have ReWire. Go and buy Propellerheads Reason or Fruityloops Studio and you get a lot of samplers, synths and drummachines to use in your host and the price of it is what you pay for one or two comercial VSTi plugs.