Just in case folks missed this thread on the Muon forum:
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44979

We're pleased to announce that the world's first Tachyon engine-powered plugin is now shipping via our partners Advanced Media Group over at www.samples4.com

AMG ONE/solois a lightweight, powerful player for REX loops and ACIDized wavs. Go here for more info:

http://www.samples4.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=597

Demos to be uploaded very shortly.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

there's an exclamation mark in the samples4 link that shouldn't be there

Fixed

looks like a right nice one Dave

I'll be looking out for the demos. Can't wait to try it out .....

Some questions Dave


(1) Will it load plain old .wav loops and make an attempt to sync them do the loops have to be Rex. or acidised wav?

(2) Will it slice beats or does it use the slicing information from Rex files only?

(3) What is the likely pricing of it's big brother and what are the additional features?

(4) When are the demos going up


Getting very interested here

Quote:

(1) Will it load plain old .wav loops and make an attempt to sync them do the loops have to be Rex. or acidised wav?

Nope, it needs to be using a sliced data format for the sync to work. If you try and load a WAV that doesn't have ACID data (the slice markers) it can't work and so the file will be rejected.

Quote:

(2) Will it slice beats or does it use the slicing information from Rex files only?

Nope, we're saving that for Neutron

Quote:

(3) What is the likely pricing of it's big brother and what are the additional features?

Pricing of the "big/ONE" is TBC. Featurewise, it is an 8-way multi-timbral loop instrument (like 8xAMG solo's!) with a massive (expandable) core library of top-quality AMG content. It also features 18 high-quality 64-bit true sterero multi FX algorithms (with four usable simulatanously in a 2 insert 2 send layout), plus nice touches like built-in step sequencer on each channel (so you can use it like a drum machine) and the ability to layer up/reverse/mess with slices on each channel too.

Quote:

(4) When are the demos going up

Within the next couple of hours. I'm just finishing off the installers.

Cheers
Dave

Cool! Thanks Dave
I'll stop bugging you now and let you get on with it.

Got a link for the demo yet, Dave?

I know I end up saying "soon" a lot...but the demos will be uploaded soon - I mean really, really really soon, not Neutron soon

Cheers
Dave

You need to do a Mac OS9 version of this. I and many others would snap it up without even thinking. It is a utility VSTI and it would bring Acidized function to a platform that could use it. (Think of all the legacy OS9 based Pro Tools Mix systems still out there in the world.)

Lady J wrote:

You need to do a Mac OS9 version of this.

I need to join the psychic hotline, as when I saw you posted to the thread, I knew this was what you're going to ask for. There always is OSX...

Devon

Quote:

You need to do a Mac OS9 version of this

I know it sounds like a dreadful snub to OS9 users everywhere, but we're no longer developing for that platform.

AFAIK there hasn't been a new mac sold with OS9 on it for a few years now, dual-boot has been dropped and they're onto the third (fourth?!) iteration of OSX now with Tiger - which I bet won't even include the Classic environment!

I know there are lots of users who don't feel the relentless pressure to upgrade every time the next big thing comes out, but I actually believe in this case there are real advantages to hopping over to OSX as soon as you're able.

Kind regards
Dave

From the site:

"ONE is taking longer than anticipated so, whilst we continue work on that, we wanted to release a lite version to introduce the format. SOLO is a ‘single rack’ version of the 8 part ONE AMG flagship plug-in that’s now set for release in the Autumn"

Will this lite version have an upgrade path to the full one?

Quote:

Will this lite version have an upgrade path to the full one?

Good question, I'll check with AMG.

Cheers
Dave

You're likely to get my $50 one I can try the demo. Please hurry up with it.

braj wrote:

You're likely to get my $50 one I can try the demo. Please hurry up with it.

It's worth it I *really* like the filter on this puppy.

Doug (who was a beta tester)

'neutron soon' ...

dougsyo wrote:

braj wrote: You're likely to get my $50 one I can try the demo. Please hurry up with it. It's worth it I *really* like the filter on this puppy. Doug (who was a beta tester)

So, how well does it work with Acid loops?

With ACID loops they won't sound quite the same as they do in ACID itself. This is because ACID has got some playback modes that aren't implemented in Tachyon.

However, if whoever sliced up the file has made good use of the transient detection and switched off the default "beat" markers, the ACID file will play back just as well as a REX file.

HTH
Dave

braj wrote:

So, how well does it work with Acid loops?

I loaded some Acid loops into an editor that showed the transient markers and played it back.

Then I loaded the same wav file into Solo, and was able to tempo-shift, pitch-shift, and got what I expected back.

Try the demo

Doug

dougsyo wrote:

Try the demo

There's a demo?

pough wrote:

dougsyo wrote: Try the demo There's a demo?

Oh, I figured it would've been posted by now. Guess not... but Dave says it's coming soon...

Doug

Seems to be a hitch updating the AMG samples4 site. I'm going to mirror the demos from our site to provide a bit of cover while they sort themselves out.

Two seconds....

OK - the demos are temporarily mirrored at:

http://www.muon-software.com/temp/solodemo_win.zip

http://www.muon-software.com/temp/solodemo_osx.sit

The demos are save-disabled, and run for only 20 minutes before cutting the sound.

Regards
Dave

I just gave this a whirl...

The truth is I really wanted to like it. I have few Acid discs that I use sometimes, and I was hoping that Solo would let me preview Acidised files whilst my song was running. Unfortunately, you have to load them in before you can hear them. Is there any possibility that the full version will be able to preview from the open dialog box?

Also, I found that Acid loops got quite clicky if the tempo or pitch was too far from the original. I know some choppiness is unavoidable, but some option to envelope the slices might help with those clicks.

My only other gripe is the blue on blue interface. I'm having to squint to read the labels.

Otherwise, this is looking like a useful little plugin. I shall definately be keeping an eye out for the full version.

cheers,
R zzer

Quote:

Is there any possibility that the full version will be able to preview from the open dialog box?

The full version has a fully integrated file browser and previewing function.

Quote:

Also, I found that Acid loops got quite clicky if the tempo or pitch was too far from the original. I know some choppiness is unavoidable, but some option to envelope the slices might help with those clicks.

ACID loops click because they've been "badly" sliced when you look at it from the perspective of something like Recycle. You don't hear it so much in ACID itself, as normally you've got "looping segments" enabled and this creates little crossfade loops within each slice. Indeed, for the ACID timestretching to work properly you really need this.

The problem for ONE/solo is that it plays the slices completely straight, but ACID puts slice markers in every 16th by default - oftentimes these cut a piece of sound in half and have no respect for zero crossings! if you don't have those crossfade loops going on you'll hear the clicks sometimes too easily.

What you need to do, when slicing, is set ACID's default markers to "whole note", or disable them individually and use the transient detected markers. This will sound *much* better.

HTH
Dave

I'll have to get home to see if my BetaMonkey loops are Acidized If these work with those loops, you've likely got a sale. IS it possible to add support for Apple Loops in the future? I've got a ton and it would be nice to use them.

One thing I can say is I like how easy it is to transpose riffs and change tempo and have it all just work nicely.

Also, is there a way to create Acid loops without Acid?

Quote:

IS it possible to add support for Apple Loops in the future? I've got a ton and it would be nice to use them.

AMG are just about the world's biggest player in Apple Loops, and they're keen. If the file format is ever documented (or AMG can talk Apple into documenting it!) we'll support them.

Quote:

Also, is there a way to create Acid loops without Acid?

Not that I know of. Fruity Loops only writes the ACID chunk (tempo etc.) but doesn't write the essential stretch markers chunk

Regards
Dave

Oh, and I really like the filter as well How much will the final version be, and will there be an upgrade path from One Solo? It would be nice to get an early adopter discount as well, if possible.

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

Quote: You need to do a Mac OS9 version of this I know it sounds like a dreadful snub to OS9 users everywhere, but we're no longer developing for that platform. AFAIK there hasn't been a new mac sold with OS9 on it for a few years now, dual-boot has been dropped and they're onto the third (fourth?!) iteration of OSX now with Tiger - which I bet won't even include the Classic environment! I know there are lots of users who don't feel the relentless pressure to upgrade every time the next big thing comes out, but I actually believe in this case there are real advantages to hopping over to OSX as soon as you're able. Kind regards Dave

1. New unopened Dual Boot G4s are still being sold by large mac dealers. I wonder why?
2. Macs are expensive enough as is, most studios use what works for them not what -might- work for another huge investment. OSX still hasn't made the kind of penatration in the audio world that you think it would have by now. Wonder why?
3. Have you actually you priced the upgrade path from a Pro Tools Mix system to a Pro Tools HD system? We aren't even talking about the cost of upgrading the CPU from a G4 to a G5 but rather the cost of the new HD core and daughter cards. Most small and intermediate Pro Tools studios in the world are not in a position to do this. Especially outside of Western Europe and North America.
4. Is it really THAT difficult to compile what amounts to a sample player for OS9? We're not talking about anything that could NOT be done on OS9 here.


All I ask is that you consider it. I am not a code warrior but the ones I talked to said it is really nothing to compile something for OS9 that was compiled for X. Especially a utility such as this.

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

ACID loops click because they've been "badly" sliced when you look at it from the perspective of something like Recycle.....

Hi Dave,

I understand the problem. I just thought it might be useful to put in an option that plays each slice with a slight (almost un-noticeable) amp envelope, to get rid of the clicks. Or even better, why not implement the same 'looping segments' method Acid uses?

Solo seems like a 'time saver' plug to me. I like the idea of loading loops up just to sketch out quick ideas, but if I have to load up Acid, change marker setting and re-save the loop just to get rid of some clicks, then my time isn't saved anymore If Acid can play these loops without clicks, why can't Solo ?

cheers,
R zzer

Quote:

I am not a code warrior but the ones I talked to said it is really nothing to compile something for OS9 that was compiled for X. Especially a utility such as this.

Not really true at all. For example, we use OSX thread code to make Tachyon totally threadsafe - this is important to the operation of the software. There's no equivalent on OS9.

We also use Navigation Services for all the file stuff and rewriting that would take time surely better spent elsewhere.

I'm sure everyone could argue that we port ONE/solo on their favourite platform but we just can't. I'm really sorry, but there will never be an OS9 version of any Tachyon-powered plugin. There will probably never be a native DXi version either (but there will definately be an Audio Unit).

FWIW you might still just yet be able to buy dual boot macs from a few dealers like Jigsaw but the stocks won't last long. Apple haven't made any new dual boot macs for years now.

Regards
Dave

Quote:

I just thought it might be useful to put in an option that plays each slice with a slight (almost un-noticeable) amp envelope, to get rid of the clicks. Or even better, why not implement the same 'looping segments' method Acid uses?

You could experiment with the Amp envelope on edit page 1 maybe. Implementing a mode similar to "looping segments" is something we'll take a serious hard look at. However, ACID's "unlooped segments" mode is just dreadful - instead of stopping when playback reaches the end of slice marker it just carries on!! if you are slowing a loop down, this just sounds hideous. So we've got an advantage there over ACID

Remember though, it is primarily designed as a REX player. REX loops play just fine, even those with gated/stretched/muted/panned segments and whatever else Recycle can throw at it

Regards
Dave

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

Remember though, it is primarily designed as a REX player...

Fair enough. I did kind of assume this. Its still a great little plug. Well done

I'll be very interested to try out the full version.

regards,
R zzer

Any idea where to get quality, un-ReFilled REX drum loops? For jazz/rock?

braj wrote:

Any idea where to get quality, un-ReFilled REX drum loops? For jazz/rock?

http://www.samples4.com/catalog/

http://www.samples4.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id= 261

Maybe...

pough wrote:

braj wrote: Any idea where to get quality, un-ReFilled REX drum loops? For jazz/rock? http://www.samples4.com/catalog/ http://www.samples4.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id= 261 Maybe...

Unfortunately, it says 'Download demo Refill' which looks bad to me. I don't have Cubase or Logic, but they advertise the REX files as being usable in those apps (it seems) so I'm guessing they should be OK. Maybe the demo is in a Refill just to keep them out of the hands of bandits.

I emailed DrumsonDemand to see if their REX files are packed or not. That's a bit more in my price range anyway.

Great plugin, Dave

This really is a little corker. Simple to use - does what it says on the tin. Lovely filter.

The only thing missing is a file browser preview - doesn't even have to be in sync or anything (although that would be nice) just something to let us audition Rex files in the "open" dialog box.

Since it's already been mentioned in this thread, I think it's worth serious consideration. I realise that big bro can do this (which means the code is there already ) so would you consider it for a .1 release?

I think you'll sell a shedload of these at £30 Dave.
Nice one.

Drumsondemand do work, for anyone interested.

http://www.drumsondemand.com/

Here's a link to some demo files:

www.drumsondemand.com/audio/free/111BPM.R.zip

Hi

Recycle has always been my prefered beat slicer - by far, so its nice to see the bolt on that propellerheads should have sorted years ago!

Unfortunate though - this should only need to be one product - I hope the 'bigger' version your working on actually has the wav edit/slice bit like Recycle as having two seperate products is far too confusing.

I am a little dissapointed with the gui - 40% of it is wasted space, I want to get a few more years out of my eyes - the present gui is too small for spending lots of time in - and to flip through 3 pages? a larger gui with larger controls -who cares if it takes 3/4 of the screen up?

Anyway - looking foward to playing around with it and Recycle.

Flipper.

How do you go back to the main interface from the splash screen? Or are you not supposed to be able to in the demo version?

Quote:

How do you go back to the main interface from the splash screen? Or are you not supposed to be able to in the demo version?

After a little fiddling about I finally cottoned on to what you are on about. It seems the latest version of VSTGUI has a bug in the splashscreen control

To get rid of the splashscreen you have to click in the *same* area yof the screen that you clicked in to display it. We'll have to fix that!

Cheers
Dave

Any word on when the native loops will be available? I found out that most of my loops aren't Acid'ized, so I'll have to get more loops if I'm to buy One/Solo.

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

To get rid of the splashscreen you have to click in the *same* area yof the screen that you clicked in to display it. We'll have to fix that!

I clicked all over the place, but obviously never found the sweet spot. It brought back horrible memories of my last girlfriend! Say, can I sue you for mental anguish...?

Quote:

Any word on when the native loops will be available? I found out that most of my loops aren't Acid'ized, so I'll have to get more loops if I'm to buy One/Solo.

I would say no longer than a couple of weeks. AMG mentioned that the artwork has gone to the printers already so it won't be long for sure.

Don't forget that you can use any REX or REX2 loops though with it. Loads of places you can get those from (err... www.samples4.com perhaps )

Regards
Dave

braj wrote:

I'll have to get home to see if my BetaMonkey loops are Acidized If these work with those loops, you've likely got a sale. IS it possible to add support for Apple Loops in the future? I've got a ton and it would be nice to use them. One thing I can say is I like how easy it is to transpose riffs and change tempo and have it all just work nicely. Also, is there a way to create Acid loops without Acid?

The current apple loop format seems to work in every thing, Acid, Ableton.. if you have apple loops, your pretty much covered i believe. I have plasma so i'll check out to see if that works.

-BTW- We've got over a gig of apple format loops over at www.looplibrary.com now. Acoustic rock,Jazz drums Techno, Noize loops, rebirth stuff, and the scott rockenfield bonus loops.

Sorry John, but that's not strictly true.

Apple Loops only work in ACID because it thinks they're just ordinary AIFF files. It doesn't actually read the Apple-specific chunk of data that says where the markers are, it automatically slices the loop itself on import!

Same goes for Ableton Live I would say.

Future versions of Tachyon (and Tachyon-powered plugins) will almost certainly support the Apple Loops format when Apple deign to release details of it to the development community of course. Right now, hardly anyone outside of Apple knows what's in those special chunks.

Regards
Dave

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

Right now, hardly anyone outside of Apple knows what's in those special chunks. Regards Dave

Let's see...bell peppers..um..oh yeah..sun dried tomatos, uh...a littel basil, & some fennel seed.

Muon Software Ltd wrote:

Sorry John, but that's not strictly true. Apple Loops only work in ACID because it thinks they're just ordinary AIFF files. It doesn't actually read the Apple-specific chunk of data that says where the markers are, it automatically slices the loop itself on import! Same goes for Ableton Live I would say. Future versions of Tachyon (and Tachyon-powered plugins) will almost certainly support the Apple Loops format when Apple deign to release details of it to the development community of course. Right now, hardly anyone outside of Apple knows what's in those special chunks. Regards Dave

Oh, I'm aware of that. my point is that the pitch shift time stretch works. but you are saying they lose all the transient information as well ??? wow, i didn't even check that. That could be a nightmare for sustainy type things. so far I've only converted our drum loops to apple format and you might not notice the lack of optimized transient markers on busy drum parts. thanks for the heads up, Sir

So it's not just me that can't find out about apple loop format? The way Art gilespie described the spec that apple released at NAMM sounds awesome, but i find no info on development. I asked around a bit but no one seems to know.

I'm really glad you are developing this Dave. I really appreciate your CM stuff and I've wanted to support moun for a while, but i didn't need any of your commercial plugz. I'm a student so i could only afford bread and butter (for a jazz student) stuff. (You are developing the AMG sample based instruments too, right ???)

I was just on AMG's website last night and discovered that "Kick-Ass Brass" IS bread and butter. If you could get this done in time for next semester, (the web site said august), I would be most appreciative.

Which leads me to another question, if i go ahead and get kick-ass brass in like EXS format, would i get a break on the virtual instrument when it's released ???

If you create an Apple Loop using the Soundtrack looping tool, and carefully set up all your transient markers and everything I'm 100% sure that they'll all be forgotten if you import the AIFF file into ACID. The pitch shift and time stretching still work because ACID then re-slices the loop automatically by itself. But as we all know, transient-detection is a bit of a hit and miss affair and you'll need to go in a tweak the hitpoints yourself just like you did in the Soundtrack looping tool.

There's no easy conversion that I know of from an Apple Loop to an ACIDized WAV. The reverse conversion *might* be possible because the guy that wrote ACID now works for Apple - I dunno if he's put some gimmick in the loop tool to read the markers in the STRC chunk of the ACID file. It's worth looking into, I'll let you know.

It's definately worth mailing AMG to ask if purchasers of the KAB library will get a discount. In conversation with them yesterday Matt mentioned that people who buy ONE/solo will get half the price they paid as a discount on the full ONE when it comes out. So drop them a mail!

Regards
Dave

PS the special chunks recipe almost certainly contains Apple....

Dave - while we have your attention - any chance of preview of rex files in the "open" dialog -box ?

Probably not in this first release. The idea was to give people a quick taste of what was coming whilst we keep on working on the full version. Obviously if we generate some code for the full version that could be re-used in ONE/solo we'll revisit it.

What I do, when flicking through a big load of REX files, is this:

1. Click load
2. Choose my REX file by double-clicking on it
3. Click on the "test" button in the interface
4. repeat...

Since ONE/solo remembers what directory you were last looking in and it remembers what file type you were browsing, this is really pretty fast.

Regards
Dave

ok DAve - it *is* less of a PITA than most, I have to admit. I also noticed your comment in this thread and had another play with the demo.
It's the dogs bollocks, let's face it
(and you can use that quote in your promotional material, should you wish )

After "Kick Ass Brass", I don't suppose a "Dogs Bollocks" plugin would be beyond the realms of possibility....

Cheers
Dave

PS - There are actually several Easter Eggs in ONE/solo too (undocumented features). Prize to the first to find them

are they in the demo or the full version dave?

Both

Just got my copy from AMG, Dave. This little beast is what I've been looking for for some time. Just had to get it.

Aside from my constant carping about dialog box preview (snigger) can i make a suggestion for the next point release?

When selecting midi file export, could you have it use the REX file name by default , instead of an empty field in the dialog box?

i.e. If the rex file is superbeat93.rx2 , then the default midi file is superbeat93.mid .

99.9999999% of the time, that's what you would call the extracted midi file, right? Plus it's a pain to close the dialog box to check what your rex file was called before typing the name in yourself.

we're a right lazy bunch, aren't we

Glad you like it

Your suggestion is so blindingly obvious, it will be done next version.

Regards
Dave

kewl