Hi all

We just got a report today that someone has cracked the demo version of our M42 Nebula synth.:

====================================

Our company, WarezSolution, is a new company mainly focuses on the activities of warez organizations. Recently, we discover one of your software products AlgoMusic M42 Nebula VST v1.0 has been defeated and issued by warez organization. For more detail, please visit the URL below.

EDIT and < BIG SNIP>

=====================================

While I find it amazing that our synth was actually GOOD ENOUGH to have someone to take the time to crack it, it is also upsetting and possibly envetable. Most good software does get cracked. We can only depend on our users to actually support it.

All we can ask is for people here to NOT USE the cracked version. M42 Nebula is very reasonable ( $45.00 ) plus you would get the AlgoMusic support if you actually purchased it. Please do not use the cracked version. Thats all we can ask. I am sure thats what any of the DEV's here can ask. It does not actually hit home until it happens to you.

Please support AlgoMusic and all the Devs here by actually purchasing the product. Nothing can replace that feeling inside that you have done the right thing.

'Nuff Said!

TC

I know how you feel Tim.I've had some of my work appear on a Russian Warez site.It's frustrating because you can never get your hands around the necks of those who so need to be choked.You have my sympathy.

EDIT: I'm sending you in a PM the address of the Russian site where my work appeared. The cracked version of Nebula is there as well right under ImpOscar.Don't know if it will help but you may learn more about who cracked it there at least for personal satisfaction.

unfortunately this happens to everything
all i can say is that real users pay for synths

oh man, that makes me sick! and to know imposcar is there as well (well, I'm sure everything else as well)
sick bastards!
I'm sorry Tim.

Well, I just plunked down my $45, not only because M42 is easily worth that much, but also because I owe you at least that much for all the great patches you've released for free. Your Rhino patches in particular were very helpful in flattening its learning curve.

I do think it's largely true that people who trade in cracked software would probably never have considered paying for the real thing in the first place.

I suppose there goes the theory of making software affordable so it won't be cracked.

sorry to hear that tim... its an excellent synth.

I personally will be buying mine on monday (finally)...... yay

I've been playing with the demo for a while and i can resist it no longer . it's my first music purchase in a while (if you don't count my host)

not much consolation to you though....

still one more "real" customer can't hurt

steve

To me, the bigger surprise would be if it wasn't cracked. The good thing is your synth is quite cheap - so some people who use cracks because the price of synths is hopelessly out of reach (say a fm7 or reaktor crack) won't have that excuse and might just buy it.

A public service announcment on why not to use crack.


























Pay for your shit or this'll happen to YOU!!!!

If the illegal patch works on the current demo, why not change your demo by a few bytes just enough to make the crack fail?

Brian

Tim, the bottom line is that there isn't a single thing in the KvR database that one couldn't find a crack to within minutes.

Now that you have been introduced to the warez community, consider it your 'Coming out' party.

Congrats, a cracked version means you're MADE

Welcome to the Big Time, & don't lose sleep over it. Cracked software dies in the HD once the WOW factor wears off. Most of the kids snatching it/passing it around wouldn't have the slightest idea what to even do with the file.

UMM, YO HOW DO EYE GET MY VSTI TO PLAY IN WAV FILEZ, OMG, HOW DO U DLOAD PRESETS I DOUBLECLICK PRESET & NO VIDEOGAME SOUNDS OMG DO U HAVE ATMOSPHERE??

Another day in paradise. Fuck it.

bluedad wrote:

I suppose there goes the theory of making software affordable so it won't be cracked.

It has nothing to do with affordability, it has everything to do with the removal of any obstruction to full functionality. A random tone is more than enough to earn a crack. That's the logic of the hackers.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't doubt if the crack teams came here to keep up on what's hot; YOUR praise of the instrument may have been a deciding factor in cracked M42, as fucked up as that sounds. They may even be reading this thread, so look your best for our silent visitors

sickle666 wrote:

Tim, the bottom line is that there isn't a single thing in the KvR database that one couldn't find a crack to within minutes. Now that you have been introduced to the warez community, consider it your 'Coming out' party. Congrats, a cracked version means you're MADE

Yeah...thats my attitude at this point...and thanks guys for all the support!

Just like if Weird Al does your song: YOU MADE IT!

To be VERY Honest: I used to have some cracked stuff on my HD.But I looked at them as demo's more or less, and never actually used anything in my actual music. But since working with DEV's ( and my HD crash) I took em off, as now I appreciate all the work that goes into this stuff...and I have to tell you..its A LOT of Work! Even the simpleist SE synth might have taken someone months, as it's a learning process.

But right now: theres no reason to have any cracked stuff, as there is so much good freeware and resonabley priced stuff, you can do quite a bit with whats on your drive right now if you fully exploit it. You can do a whole song simply with Synth1, or a Kraklie synth or whatever, and a good cheap host like EnergyXT, Tracktion or TobyBears MiniHost.

TC

blaster78 wrote:

sorry to hear that tim... its an excellent synth. I personally will be buying mine on monday (finally)...... yay I've been playing with the demo for a while and i can resist it no longer . it's my first music purchase in a while (if you don't count my host) not much consolation to you though.... still one more "real" customer can't hurt steve

i think i may have said it in the garden last week but you will not regret it


@tim tsk tsk regards your shady past,but anyway hurry up with the bloody fx version dont let some idiot crackers hold you back i want my fx version NOW!!!!

I've never ever heard of this synth what kinda sound does it have.

Oh man, that sucks. Just another example of why cracking should be punishable by public castration with red-hot piano wire, or maybe something REALLY slow and painful. And I'm trying to be polite here!

xanda123 wrote:

I've never ever heard of this synth what kinda sound does it have.

What?? HOLY NEBULA!
Star hope on over to http://www.algomusic.nl and find out. You can download the demo on the downloads page, and listen to MP3's on the product page. You can even download the manual.

Basically the sound is: space, ...and more space... and a little more space...PADS< RYMS< SEQ< LEADS< BASS<SFX<, ect. It was inspired by Klaus Shutze's Totem piece. It has some algorithmic elements as well. There was a HUGE thread here on KvR for a long time. I also did 256 presets for it ( had to mention that)


http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41334&sid=e6867c86c4eefe8 38f89db13122aab49

You can also read user reviews here on the QuickList section here at KvR.


Have Fun!

TC

Well... this is very sad......
i am in the same situation..... my NBM-Grenade Synth wich is not that famous and that dont even have a copy protection appears in some warez sites as "Cracked by [put idiot name here]"
the consequence..... hummmm...... fuck! my website is offline now.... I simply dont have any more money to pay it......as I wasent selling that much......after the crack appeared I selled NONE.... arGH!
its sad.....
just one thing man.... update your demo.... change a fucking line in it ( so the crack wont work anymore )
cheers

it's awesome..... one of the best synth i have heard....... ever.

demo then buy, you won't regret it

mine on monday

[bad joke mode] perhaps i should download the OMGLOLWTF!!1!! wares version[/bad joke mode]

steve.

blaster78 wrote:

it's awesome..... one of the best synth i have heard....... ever. demo then buy, you won't regret it mine on monday [bad joke mode] perhaps i should download the OMGLOLWTF!!1!! wares version[/bad joke mode] steve.

Chekov: That was a little joke sir
Spock: Extremly little Ensign
( Trouble with Tribbles)

Jokes aside Thanks for the comments...you will like it! It would be great to hear any tunes you do using it on the Cafe.I have been enjoying the ones so far there. Great stuff!After all, it's about making Music.

BTW: the DR made a good joke: he said maybe we should put this news ( about the cracked version) on our news section on the site :-)Good advertisment

TC

fx version please


howsabout you let me beta test and as asoon as you say yes to that i will move ??$ to your paypal account,so basically beta testing means i get it early
i have stuff i need it for
give it to me
now

Quote:

BTW: the DR made a good joke: he said maybe we should put this news ( about the cracked version) on our news section on the site :-)Good advertisment

It's been cracked so it must be good.......

you could pay an ad agency £1000's for that campaign

any publicity is good publicity

steve.

as i already said... demo, then purchase (and every so often bouce down a couple of loops) then buy.

ps. tim, are you going to do any more crystal presets? i use in probably 50% of all tracks (especially the lotr ones) and would be happy to donate via paypal or something)

cheers

steve

ps. this is an excellent synth..... buy now

pps. goto go, gf is pissed off i'm messing about with this "computer stuff" while spinal tap is on

edit: this synth goes to 11 !!

I think that most people have covered what I would have said: no matter how big or small you are someone will crackyour software. Ignore it tim, it's just not worth the effort.

I, like many others (yourself included), have used cracked software. This was some time ago, before I knew what this really meant (as in, to the people who develop software, not what warez are). These days I feel very much a part of this community and I realise that it's MY money that pushes things forward and if I don't invest in the people who create these amazing synths, effects and hosts then the scene will fall apart.

I am ashamed to have used warez. I do not use any software that isn't either paid for or free anymore. I also now try to give as much to this community as I receive, which is bloody difficult being as you are such a generous lot! I feel for you tim, I really do but don't let it get you down.

blaster78 wrote:

as i already said... demo, then purchase (and every so often bouce down a couple of loops) then buy. ps. tim, are you going to do any more crystal presets? i use in probably 50% of all tracks (especially the lotr ones) and would be happy to donate via paypal or something) cheers steve:

yeah...I may...BUT I DID...BUT...You will have to get Receptor ( Muse Reseach) to hear them, as I used Crystal quite a bit in multi-patches.

But someday I do plan to go back to my "roots" and do another Crystal Bank. Perhaps when Glenn does the update

TC

receptor........

i would need to win the lottery.....

budget for synth/music etc. is currently less that the gf spend on eyeshadow

Hope you do some more crystal stuff..... only really getting to grip with the beast myself (sf and everything)

quite, the best free synth ever....

cheers,

steve.

ps. m42 is cool

vurt wrote:

fx version please howsabout you let me beta test and as asoon as you say yes to that i will move ??$ to your paypal account,so basically beta testing means i get it early i have stuff i need it for give it to me now

Boy..you are a persistant little Vurt, are'nt ya! Once we get the FX version going...you will be the first to know!

I the meantime: try the Antares Filter Demo...I did quite a few presets in there too!

TC

im only persistent when i know something will be good and i want it

blaster78 wrote:

receptor........ i would need to win the lottery..... budget for synth/music etc. is currently less that the gf spend on eyeshadow Hope you do some more crystal stuff..... only really getting to grip with the beast myself (sf and everything) quite, the best free synth ever.... cheers, steve. ps. m42 is cool

I would agree on Crystal: but I just got thru with some Wheel Of Fortune presets: check 'em out...and WOF is free too! See the thread I posted.

TC

have already......


just downloaded earlier today....will get some use tomorrow.

tc makes good patches

Cheers,

Steve.

Like eveyone else I must say that sucks! I dont understand that mindset...I mean Im broke and so I dont own a single comercial VST...but I do get alot of use playing with freeware VSTs! There are plenty of good free ones out there to mess with...why rip off the developers of pay ones? Grrr...just dont understand?

hey steve do the words "tap girl penis friend scissors spinal" in any order mean anything to you

Quote:

budget for synth/music etc. is currently less that the gf spend on eyeshadow

I have been with my wife when she buys makeup.
a pack of gum and a few tiny little odd shaped objects and it's $90!!

yeah.....

but the laptop's on my knee now and she is on my left arm.....


so i can still type.....


you guys are f**king up my life

[deb says]not yet but i will do.....[/deb says]

steve (and deb)

hey deb did he get back in one piece last weekend?
after the naked table dancing and the limbo efforts he was pulling we were a little worried but the strippers said theyd give him a lift as they lived near you

[steve says] don't need that shit john [/steve says]

[deb says] tell more [/deb says]

steve (and deb)

ps. john you're a bastahrd......and you scream like one

[/deb says] just had that one explained - not till after holidays (first emoticon)[/deb says]

ps. respect to vurtessa and minivurt for the lift sunday

only jokin with ya deb,he was very resectable he even ate brocolli and stilton soup.see not really a rowdy bash at all,and as he says my wife who certainly isnt a stripper dropped him at the station
you should come along next time,it might not be as boring as it seems

she may come to the southport do.

although she'd probably be bored

[deb says]I'd love to john, perhaps i should even join kvr, no musical talent to speak of, .... an hour into this film and steve's wtached non of it..... it must be good

would you like to get together for a meal sometime[/deb says]

deb like vurtessa (or at least what she's heard)

steve.

have a good time all of the time.....

about the only line i picked up from the film (this time)

steve.

yeah meals are cool but no spaghetti
not with my beard


well arrange something

now go and watch the film well be here tomorrow

film finshed

deb not bothered

now euro highlights

[deb says] now he starts watching[/deb says]

steve (and deb)

ps. deb is going to sign up to k-v-r

tim, I would remove the URL in your post if I were you

if you look closely and follow the link on the 'report' page you posted, it appears that they are selling the crack for $3, and accept PayPal.

Now, why they would email YOU about this is beyond me

but it sure doesn't look like a very legit service

good luck and best wishes

think we need a kvr widows forum setup
it seems all our loved ones are joining up so they can spend time with us

my little lad cant wait till hes 13 and he can spend some time with his dad on kvr

why 13 ?

k-v-r widows

{deb says] absoloutly..... why do men like computers so much[/deb says]

they (not just women) don't get it do they ?

steve.

NO SHIT!!

That is sooo fucked up! The link to the company's website is a dead end..this is very intresting. And the 'patch' link takes you to paypal..

Tim, time to get in touch with an authority.

That page won't be there much longer, I guarantee it.

hmm..check this out:

http://www.warezsolution.com/home.htm

This company's site is so vanilla looking, I could make that page site myself in like 20 minutes. What it appears to be to me is a way for the crack teams to make extra money. They crack an app & then get paid to let you know they did it...wow.

That company looks shady like a motherf*cker..

Bought M42 a little while back - haven't used it much yet but was initially very impressed by it's sound - great for spacey ambient pads. Will use it soon when I need these types of sounds.

If you can't afford it - don't nick it.

I can't afford a new car - but I ain't gonna nick one.

Most of the VST stuff is so cheap. There is so much good free stuff out there aswell. These thieves are ruining it for everyone else. Don't they feel bad about taking from someone that has put a lot of time and effort into what they are stealing? Don't they realise that if you steal this software then those who produce it don't get paid? If they don't get paid then they can't afford to produce it.

bluedad wrote:

I suppose there goes the theory of making software affordable so it won't be cracked.

That went out the window a long time ago! I remember reading in cm magazine that Nuton Softwares Tuner vst was cracked...and it only costs' something like 8 or 9 dollars. stoopid fucks!

I'm sure that Nebula has been passed around and posted with the reg code before this. Most things have. The thing is, there are people who know a good thing when they see/hear it, and still a good number of them will happily pay. There is nothing you can do about the other people.

I've seen my albums on russian and a number of other eastern-based sites. Nothing I can do about it. Gonna happen. Best not to think/worry about it. The web just is that way. But thankfully, there are still people who buy them.

What's worse than someone simply posting the software/album is when an illegal site charges a nominal fee for downloading access. I find it much more annoying when the piracy is also a commercial endeavour

sickle666 wrote:

Tim, the bottom line is that there isn't a single thing in the KvR database that one couldn't find a crack to within minutes. Now that you have been introduced to the warez community, consider it your 'Coming out' party. Congrats, a cracked version means you're MADE Welcome to the Big Time, & don't lose sleep over it. Cracked software dies in the HD once the WOW factor wears off. Most of the kids snatching it/passing it around wouldn't have the slightest idea what to even do with the file. UMM, YO HOW DO EYE GET MY VSTI TO PLAY IN WAV FILEZ, OMG, HOW DO U DLOAD PRESETS I DOUBLECLICK PRESET & NO VIDEOGAME SOUNDS OMG DO U HAVE ATMOSPHERE?? Another day in paradise. Fuck it.

Acually, some of the kids that find and/or make cracked copies are using it for the love/fun of the game.

It's no more or less controverial than trying to find cracked copies of their favorite video games (read : EA Sports).

TotcProductions wrote:

I remember reading in cm magazine that Nuton Softwares Tuner vst was cracked...and it only costs' something like 8 or 9 dollars. stoopid fucks!

Yup, and the next day--even though I still prefer my good ol' analog tuner--I bought Nuton's VST. Pret' good. It's one of only 3 music production purchases (not counting CM cover discs)-- along with Tracktion and eXT.



There are many many other VST I would love to buy... some by ConcreteFX (Dicer, esp), Rhino, BFD (or similar), Green Machine II, etc. etc. etc. But I still get by on freeware because I can't afford to indulge myself and I refuse to use warez. And I think there are many like me out there.

Greg

Lunch Money wrote:

TotcProductions wrote: I remember reading in cm magazine that Nuton Softwares Tuner vst was cracked...and it only costs' something like 8 or 9 dollars. stoopid fucks! Yup, and the next day--even though I still prefer my good ol' analog tuner--I bought Nuton's VST. Pret' good. It's one of only 3 music production purchases (not counting CM cover discs)-- along with Tracktion and eXT. There are many many other VST I would love to buy... some by ConcreteFX (Dicer, esp), Rhino, BFD (or similar), Green Machine II, etc. etc. etc. But I still get by on freeware because I can't afford to indulge myself and I refuse to use warez. And I think there are many like me out there. Greg

I bought it too. But i bought it cuz i'm a plug-in slut.

tconrardy wrote:

Hi all We just got a report today that someone has cracked the demo version of our M42 Nebula synth.: ==================================== Our company, WarezSolution, is a new company mainly focuses on the activities of warez organizations. Recently, we discover one of your software products AlgoMusic M42 Nebula VST v1.0 has been defeated and issued by warez organization. For more detail, please visit the URL below. EDIT and < BIG SNIP> ===================================== While I find it amazing that our synth was actually GOOD ENOUGH to have someone to take the time to crack it, it is also upsetting and possibly envetable. Most good software does get cracked. We can only depend on our users to actually support it. All we can ask is for people here to NOT USE the cracked version. M42 Nebula is very reasonable ( $45.00 ) plus you would get the AlgoMusic support if you actually purchased it. Please do not use the cracked version. Thats all we can ask. I am sure thats what any of the DEV's here can ask. It does not actually hit home until it happens to you. Please support AlgoMusic and all the Devs here by actually purchasing the product. Nothing can replace that feeling inside that you have done the right thing. 'Nuff Said! TC

Bump.

I really want this synth. Money on it's way.

Tim and Dr. Ambient, I am sorry to hear about the crack. Grrr...

Wonder if we're coming to the time when something like PGP will be needed to authenticate to commercial apps...

Take it from me Tim, the demo of M42 has me frothing. I make avante garde electronica, and M42 is going to be a good addition to my rig.

I will buy it soon.

Don't lose heart. People who use warez are usually twobit bedroom trance wannabe producers who have no talent nor brains.

Fuck em!

Amberience wrote:

Take it from me Tim, the demo of M42 has me frothing. I make avante garde electronica, and M42 is going to be a good addition to my rig. I will buy it soon. Don't lose heart.

Yeah: M42 was based on a pretty advant guard piece / artist at the time: Mr Klaus Shutze ( heck...he's still regarded as avante garde probably:-) and his Totem album. Thats a whole side of an album that I can play forever! Please post any Pieces ( in the cafe) , as I would love to hear your work.

TC

Hi Dr. & Tim

My CDs have been and probably are on pirat sites,
mostly Russian sites, sometimes Asian.

To shut them down is quite easy !

Enter the site name into a "route tracer",
http://www.visualware.com/personal/index.html
then you get all the info needed.
Provider, web hosting, etc.
All nessesary email adresses are there.

Simply send an email about the abuse with the link to the
provider and/or web host.
They are gone very quickly.

But apear a bit later somewere else again.
Its a race we can not win but slow down and disturb.

Cheers
Midiworks

P.S. Those bastards just released one of my CDs...
No need for those fuc*ing
wxw.warezsolution.com/home.htm
to find that out myself in 5 seconds.
Every company that puts down $98 for that crap,
deserves to be punished.

Quote:

This company's site is so vanilla looking, I could make that page site myself in like 20 minutes. What it appears to be to me is a way for the crack teams to make extra money. They crack an app & then get paid to let you know they did it...wow. That company looks shady like a motherf*cker..

I can only agree !!!

sickle666 wrote:

Most of the kids snatching it/passing it around wouldn't have the slightest idea what to even do with the file. UMM, YO HOW DO EYE GET MY VSTI TO PLAY IN WAV FILEZ, OMG, HOW DO U DLOAD PRESETS I DOUBLECLICK PRESET & NO VIDEOGAME SOUNDS OMG DO U HAVE ATMOSPHERE??

Amberience wrote:

Don't lose heart. People who use warez are usually twobit bedroom trance wannabe producers who have no talent nor brains.

Riiiiiight. I know very talented and respected musicians (releasing records on real record labels) who use cracked software. I know mixing engineers who definately know how to program a synth using warez as well. Obviously using cracked software is morally reprehensible, but please ditch those puerile stereotypes.

I'm proud to say, I actually managed to break a rather good musician of his warez habit. Didn't moralize, just lead by example.

Him: "But surely you didn't pay for Windows?"
Me: "Well, actually, no, it came with the PC."

Anyway, there's a number of companies who regularly use this site who are in the money as a consequence.

M42 is still on my shopping list. Will buy it after my salary comes.

You can take this cracking as some kind of award for making excellent soft synth. Crackers dont bother to waste time for bad software.

Quote:

P.S. Those bastards just released one of my CDs... No need for those fuc*ing wxw.warezsolution.com/home.htm to find that out myself in 5 seconds. Every company that puts down $98 for that crap, deserves to be punished.

Don't post warez links dude....even if it's to prove a point. posting the links just gives them more advertisement.

TotcProductions wrote:

Quote: P.S. Those bastards just released one of my CDs... No need for those fuc*ing to find that out myself in 5 seconds. Every company that puts down $98 for that crap, deserves to be punished. Don't post warez links dude....even if it's to prove a point. posting the links just gives them more advertisement.

now it's in your post too man . See how I cut it out of your quote?

The next synth I buy will be M42. It's the kind of thing I was searching for ages

To crack it really sucks. And they don't do it just for fun...

If software dev is a way of making a living, those guys are screwing themselves for the future. Sad, sad, sad...

Sickle666 wrote:

now it's in your post too man

Thanx

tconrardy wrote:

Please post any Pieces ( in the cafe) , as I would love to hear your work. TC

Sure thing!

Klaus Schutze ... The Dark Side Of The Moog .. classic!

Of course, you know what would be dreadful? If some poor, twisted developers, angry at how their livelihood is being chipped away by these hacker f*ckers started writing their own cracks for their own software...

These cracks would look just like the ones on warez sites, would have similar names, would even be the same size in bytes, but... and here's the awful bit... after cracking your demo, they might start to randomly delete drivers, or registry entries, or system files or pretty much everything until, before long, your computer is so unstable it's useless. Of course, if this happened to someone after trying out a crack, that person would be free to write a strongly-worded email of complaint to the warez site they got it from, and maybe even ask sternly for some compensation for their trashed computer. I'm sure they'd receive a prompt, courteous and professional reply...

I think if these "cracks" started ending up on various warez sites, word would get round pretty quickly not to attempt cracking the demo of A, B or C, as there are far too many 'poisoned' cracks doing the rounds and they all look and act like the real deal.

Now, I couldn't possibly condone this sort of action, but I wouldn't be surprised if one or two angry developers started to do this (not for themselves, of course, but maybe for each other?)

I really wouldn't be surprised at all...

Philip

philip wrote:

Of course, you know what would be dreadful? If some poor, twisted developers, angry at how their livelihood is being chipped away by these hacker f*ckers started writing their own cracks for their own software... These cracks would look just like the ones on warez sites, would have similar names, would even be the same size in bytes, but... and here's the awful bit... after cracking your demo, they might start to randomly delete drivers, or registry entries, or system files or pretty much everything until, before long, your computer is so unstable it's useless. Of course, if this happened to someone after trying out a crack, that person would be free to write a strongly-worded email of complaint to the warez site they got it from, and maybe even ask sternly for some compensation for their trashed computer. I'm sure they'd receive a prompt, courteous and professional reply... I think if these "cracks" started ending up on various warez sites, word would get round pretty quickly not to attempt cracking the demo of A, B or C, as there are far too many 'poisoned' cracks doing the rounds and they all look and act like the real deal. Now, I couldn't possibly condone this sort of action, but I wouldn't be surprised if one or two angry developers started to do this (not for themselves, of course, but maybe for each other?) I really wouldn't be surprised at all... Philip

I've seen them before in the past. It's been done, but not enough to make it truly prohibitive, & the false cracks/trojans are quickly isolated by the warez community. A few years back when I was still a shit, I had a folder dedicated to nothing but trojan cracks as a quarantine house.

Amberience wrote:

Klaus Schutze ... The Dark Side Of The Moog .. classic!

Ooh, listening to it right now... But it's not all Schülze - don't forget Pete Namlook!

As someone who has had software pirated I sympathize. I wrote my PvC (Peavey PC1600x Editor/Librarian) and sell it for a meager $29.95 AND EVEN OFFER TO GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE for anyone who needs it and can't afford it (and have given away several copies to date).

One day I receive an email telling me where to find the warez'd copy of mine - along with notification of the credit card charge that was reversed to some poor elderly woman in West Virginia)

Here's what I did though:

Of course I don't have the means to fight it - so I informed several LARGE companies (EMagic as one) who also had their software on the offending site - they forwarded the information to their Legal parties and the site was gone within two days.

Now I know it doesn't stop it, and the site my PvC was on was in Germany (not Russia) but the big dogs go after the ISPs moreso than the site owners to shut things down. In this day of P2P that also doesn't work as well, but it somehow made me feel better

In the end, yes you have to take the view that you're honored to have been wared M42 is on my list of near-future purchases as well

visa tapani wrote:

Amberience wrote: Klaus Schutze ... The Dark Side Of The Moog .. classic! Ooh, listening to it right now... But it's not all Schülze - don't forget Pete Namlook!

Oh Boy, the Name of this great ambient Producer is KLAUS SCHULZE - NOT Schülze or Schutze damnit!!!

j/k

mon0 wrote:

visa tapani wrote: Amberience wrote: Klaus Schutze ... The Dark Side Of The Moog .. classic! Ooh, listening to it right now... But it's not all Schülze - don't forget Pete Namlook! Oh Boy, the Name of this great ambient Producer is KLAUS SCHULZE - NOT Schülze or Schutze damnit!!! j/k

OH BOY INDEED! Thanks for the correction. I was WAY OFF! I think I have to handwrite that on the chalkboard ( if I can find one) 220 times so I can get it right!

TC

i just picked up the June issue of Future Music. Their focus is on the hardware/software combos like Creamware and such. And one reason is these hybrid solutions offer some copy protection.

The kicker -- "One developer I spoke to claimed that thyere may be as many as 400 pirated copies of some packages for every one copy sold, so somethiong has to be done or this ever-softening industry will be brought to its knees." Andy Jones Senior editor Future Music

sorry state

wrench45us wrote:

The kicker -- "One developer I spoke to claimed that thyere may be as many as 400 pirated copies of some packages for every one copy sold, so somethiong has to be done or this ever-softening industry will be brought to its knees." Andy Jones Senior editor Future Music

Does anyone have any hard evidence to support these kinds of statistics? It seems like it would be pretty difficult to accurately gauge the impact of piracy.

mon0 wrote:

Oh Boy, the Name of this great ambient Producer is KLAUS SCHULZE - NOT Schülze or Schutze damnit!!! j/k

Ahh, take it easy. I'm positive I've seen it written as Schülze as well.

But come on.
uüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüu
üuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuü
uüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüu
üuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuü.

BTW: Do you need to write it in capitals to get it right?

wrench45us wrote:

i just picked up the June issue of Future Music. Their focus is on the hardware/software combos like Creamware and such. And one reason is these hybrid solutions offer some copy protection. The kicker -- "One developer I spoke to claimed that thyere may be as many as 400 pirated copies of some packages for every one copy sold, so somethiong has to be done or this ever-softening industry will be brought to its knees." Andy Jones Senior editor Future Music sorry state

fuck! thats insane! so for every 3 legit users theres
1200 illlegit users i know im going to a phantasy world but for one second lets just imagine a world with out wares im looking into my crystal ball and this is what i see...150 other soft synths and 600 fx and 15 new music programs.that are there because of no more wares and lots of money coming in for new development and tempting new developers causing an even bigger expansion of growth. everybody going legit because a new form of software protection has posed imposible to crack. and freware programs on the ever expansion because not everybody can afford to pay for there software and rather then not make music at all enjoy the growing amount of exelent freeware being developed at an exuberant rate and... well... we can dream and someday itjust may happenjust this way. but you know andi know that it wont.as long as theres scumm sucking crackers out there cracking softwre faster then it can even be developed andupdate to the next version the war will rage on...

i think there should be more aggression to warez users. they are not harmless, they poison everything. and always when they post there is this painfully trollish thread.

also more "viral" devices would be good. deliberate release of f**ked up versions of synths. synths that still function but use huge amounts of CPU, or flood the system with useless midi info.

they should be good enough to be OK, but annoying. this might also uncover warez users because people will post questions asking about midi troubles or cpu spikes

you must fight fire with fire.

Cabinfever wrote:

also more "viral" devices would be good. deliberate release of f**ked up versions of synths. synths that still function but use huge amounts of CPU, or flood the system with useless midi info.

I think this will just encourage them. I think we all might as well admit that there will always be thieves in the world and the best way to deter them is to educate people about their cost to developers, the industry, and, in the end, themselves.

education

visa tapani wrote:

mon0 wrote: Oh Boy, the Name of this great ambient Producer is KLAUS SCHULZE - NOT Schülze or Schutze damnit!!! j/k Ahh, take it easy. I'm positive I've seen it written as Schülze as well. But come on. uüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüu üuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuü uüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüu üuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuüuü. BTW: Do you need to write it in capitals to get it right?

j/k means just kiddin. So dont take it to hard my friend

I'm against cracking and using cracked software!!!
But this issue needs a more intelligent way of reflection than this on kvr and maybe other boards like this.
The criminals are those who crack software and distribute it.
The criminals are those who use cracked software to sell their music.

If you can follow this the estimated numbers of warez-users is meanless and imo, wrong. The audio industry had the same way of counting. Now they slowly begin to realise how wrong and self-destroying it was. They took the numbers of sold CD-ROMs to take this as evidence for the value of piration - how stupid can top-rated, ( and -paid! )managers be???!!! Universal started with intelligent behavior just now.

It's like a modern witch-hunt: Everyone in a group of people pretends to be the prototype of an "honorable gentleman" ( or Lady, of course )that never ever did something wrong or criminal, and beat on others and feel so right, clean and political correct.
Statistically is this impossible!!!

What I want to say with the former sentences is that there are not that much warez-users as told and, finally, who cares?
If someone who sits in slums whereever on this world and makes his day with playing around with cracked software, who cares? He or she never would buy any application because there's no money at all! So this one does not take away anything of the software-developers, because the licenced copies are on their places, didn't they?

There are ways to lower pirating:
Give up copy protection for getting
lower prices.
Make your software stable to show your users you take them seriously. ( I heard that some cracked vstis make less problems than the licenced ones! )
Think about it, if you can and want to.

thats bollocks thorau, everyone has heard that tired crackhead apologist crap before

but then everyone has also heard the anti-crackhead crap too

thats why i say to distribute just slightly f**ked up versions to annoy the crack users. peak that cpu every few minutes, drop a few notes here and there, be just ever so slightly out of tune every day or so make the crackheads worry a bit and ask stupid questions, then we can all have a laugh

Also, many of the users of cracked software that would have never been creating music if it wasn't for those illegal software, get addicted and eventually buy the original software. Especially when they make some money out of it.
So, if you see it from another point of view, piracy is creating a boom for the vst industry.

there was an idea that some of the devs get together to do a group check for warez copies.

(1) I everyone else can get their hands on warez, then so can the devs.

(2) The devs can analyse the cracked copies and identify a signature.

(3) The new release of, say Z3ta+ could check for warez versions of all known rgc, linplug, camelaudio and refx cracks (for example) and fail if it finds any one of them.

I thought it was an idea that had some merit and could be made workable.

some poor misguided fool wrote:

So, if you see it from another point of view, piracy is creating a boom for the vst industry.

that's patently bollocks. that's what demos are for.

hitman8081 wrote:

wrench45us wrote: i just picked up the June issue of Future Music. Their focus is on the hardware/software combos like Creamware and such. And one reason is these hybrid solutions offer some copy protection. The kicker -- "One developer I spoke to claimed that thyere may be as many as 400 pirated copies of some packages for every one copy sold, so somethiong has to be done or this ever-softening industry will be brought to its knees." Andy Jones Senior editor Future Music sorry state fuck! thats insane! so for every 3 legit users theres 1200 illlegit users ...

These kind of statistics remind me of RIAA scare tactics lobbying... How do they know how many pirated copies are out there? Hire a company to call random homes during suppertime and do a 'warez' survey? Or better yet, bribe a warez group to add a tracker trojan to their release, thats 'calls home' to update them on total warez use?

I'm sure there are many warez users for every legit user, but those stats are just PR talk.

Cabinfever wrote:

i think there should be more aggression to warez users. they are not harmless, they poison everything. and always when they post there is this painfully trollish thread. also more "viral" devices would be good. deliberate release of f**ked up versions of synths. synths that still function but use huge amounts of CPU, or flood the system with useless midi info. they should be good enough to be OK, but annoying. this might also uncover warez users because people will post questions asking about midi troubles or cpu spikes you must fight fire with fire.

you, as a matter of fact, suggest fighting forest fire with a lighter.
you must consider some facts first: the people who make warez do not make a great (if any) amount of money for it, but have to get the software somewhere, have to release it somehow, and they also risk a lot by doing this. cracking is mostly done because of the fun factor, the challenge behind all that protection code, a sense of adventure, and of course, to be a better cracker than the rest. so, if better protection is made, it will attract more crackers. and that thing about adding viral code - it will not help. some of the releases already had those issues, and were solved within few days, so it is not that much of a hassle. i am really sorry about that and feel with developers who make so much great stuff, but that's the way life unfortunately is.

I'm not sure you're right, Floyd.
This came from a developer, remember.

Devs are in the position of knowing exactly how many copies they have sold of a particular plugin.
All you have to do is release a nice new set of free patches and see how many downloads you get. That'll give you a small percentage of the number of warez users out there (i.e. the number who (a) found out about the free patches and (b) bothered to download them)
I guarantee that most devs have had an experience like this and would confirm that the number of patch downloads far exceeds the number of legitimate licenses sold.

kuniklo wrote:

Cabinfever wrote: also more "viral" devices would be good. deliberate release of f**ked up versions of synths. synths that still function but use huge amounts of CPU, or flood the system with useless midi info. I think this will just encourage them. I think we all might as well admit that there will always be thieves in the world and the best way to deter them is to educate people about their cost to developers, the industry, and, in the end, themselves.

I agree. I'm what you'd call a rehabilitated warez user. I will not deny that I used to use it - a: as a way to discover new stuff and b: because at the time I could not afford software.

Nowadays I can afford software so I buy it. Now I've seen peoples sharelist on various p2p programs, and you wouldn't believe the amount of crap people keep!!

You ever seen those tramps that walk down the street with a trolley full of cans? How about the neighbourhood scummy family, with their sacks of garbage on the front lawn ??

Well warez sharers are the internet equivalent. I mean cmon! These people date their share lists as if its some kind of trophy to their ego!!

"oooh... look at me, I've got every audio program available from 1999-2004."

Retards.

Now I don't condone theft, and I am ashamed that I used warez to discover software, but if I hadn't I probably would've ended up wasting money on programs that were no good to me.

I use demo's now.

Cabinfever wrote:

thats bollocks thorau, everyone has heard that tired crackhead apologist crap before

heh, say what you want, but you have to admit that it makes some sense.

Quote:

thats why i say to distribute just slightly f**ked up versions to annoy the crack users. peak that cpu every few minutes, drop a few notes here and there, be just ever so slightly out of tune every day or so make the crackheads worry a bit and ask stupid questions, then we can all have a laugh

you don't get it really. and how will you distribute both versions? "please, cracker mister, don't get the regular version and crack it, get the f***ed up version and crack that one. pleease." this form of protection you suggest was already tried, and guess what - it was cracked.
most of the crackers come from post-communist countries, where there was very little (or none at all) private property, and it was not respected as it is respected in capitallist countries. it is mostly a matter of education of the generation which is now making cracks. so, the best way to deal with this is to wait for this generation to die

Everything dies with time. Cracking will die. Fake-democracy will die. Crap fast-food chains will die too.

Quote:

most of the crackers come from post-communist countries, where there was very little (or none at all) private property, and it was not respected as it is respected in capitallist countries. it is mostly a matter of education of the generation which is now making cracks. so, the best way to deal with this is to wait for this generation to die

erm,
maybe average salary in those countries has got to with it too.

coincidentaly i am too waiting for me to die

scuzzphut wrote:

I'm not sure you're right, Floyd. This came from a developer, remember. Devs are in the position of knowing exactly how many copies they have sold of a particular plugin. All you have to do is release a nice new set of free patches and see how many downloads you get. That'll give you a small percentage of the number of warez users out there (i.e. the number who (a) found out about the free patches and (b) bothered to download them) I guarantee that most devs have had an experience like this and would confirm that the number of patch downloads far exceeds the number of legitimate licenses sold.

Good idea, scuzzphut. However, this assumes that the free patchs can't be loaded in a demo. In the majority of synth demos can load patchs afaik.

Amberience wrote:

Everything dies with time. Cracking will die. Fake-democracy will die. Crap fast-food chains will die too.

cracking will never die, just like rock (some of the people say ).
and crap fast food chains won't too, unfortunately .....

good point - concede

you can see what I'm trying to say, though - I'll wager that the majority of devs have a very good estimation of the scale of piracy of their products.

Actually, I seem to recall reading some pretty intelligent stuff on the subject by Angus (apologies to Angus if I've misattributed perfectly sane remarks) wherein he said:

a) The ratio of patch downloads to purchases is startlingly high.
b) So is the ratio of sequencer sales to controller sales.

And no, no-one knows exactly how much warezing is going on, but the truth is that the indicators people know about suggest that its endemic.

Think of it a different way, if only twice as many people bought softsynth products, that would translate into something like 8 times on the bottom line (4 times for box manufacturers). That sort of money could easily pay for, say, a decent mathematician and a decent assembly coder for every manufacturer. Or just plain better pay for the existing guys, which might help recruitment...

h.vox wrote:

cracking will never die, just like rock (some of the people say ). and crap fast food chains won't too, unfortunately .....

Both will once Bush does us all a favour and vapourises the planet ;P

Anyway, staying on topic... this synth is so cheap that anyone who uses the crack as an alternative to buying it is a complete and utter cockshit and needs turning into a prison slut.

h.vox wrote:

most of the crackers come from post-communist countries

As a reformed warez user from a post-communict country, I must admit that most cracked softwares I had in 1998-2000 originated from 'teams' obviously situated in well-doing 'old democtacies' (judging by language, pricing details etc in the info files). And don't forget that in order to crack some expensive software like Cubase, Reason, NI products etc one has to buy it in the first place. Not so many people here can pay some $500+ just to share it on the net to show off. Also, most of those programs which sell boxed are just not available here through dealers--if you wanna buy 'em you have to order online, and this means you gotta have a credit card, which still is not such a frequent thing in an economy where most wages are payed in cash to avoid tax authorities. There's a wide distribution of cracked software in these places, true (although I'm hearing from my more 'liberal' musician friends that it's much harder to buy a warez CD in Moscow than it was 2 or 3 years ago due to anti-piracy raids and other measures taken by the authorities to stop counterfeiting), but the cracks themselves are hardly of local origin.

I think Cakewalk, Voxengo and GMediaMusic set a good example for other companies in dealing with piracy. The formula seems to be:

1. Offer downloadable demos of all your software that are functional enough to give potential customers a very good idea of how well the product works for them.

2. Sell your product for a very reasonable price.

3. Use a simple and unobtrusive protection scheme that doesn't punish your honest customers.

4. Offer great support and treat your customers like you care about them. Maintain a friendly public face on company forums and forums like kvr.

Consequently, I'd bet that the ratio of pirated to legitimate copies of Sonar and the Voxengo plugs is lower than it is for many other companies.

Contrast this with companies like Waves and Steinberg that charge top dollar for their products, don't offer a reasonable demo (in the case of Steinberg) or use copy protection schemes so invasive that paying customers will sometimes used cracked versions to avoid the hassles. I suspect the ratio of crack users to paying customers for companies like these is much higher.

Quote:

AlgoMusic M42 Nebula cracked

Hmmm. From what I hear so are the developers.

Robert

litteape wrote:

(MOD EDIT - i think youre right gary)

nice one,.

you LOVE Odo's unknown synth, but you think synthedit is Junk./

litteape wrote:

(MOD EDIT - and again ... )

litteape wrote:

(MOD EDIT - last one i hope)

Don´t mind him....trollin´ for posts seem to be an overly common thing as of late

Most cracks are done in America. They are sold overseas for low prices. The cracks do not happen there as much. There have been 2 cracking groups with caught persons. Paradox and Oxygen. They both based from california with some in sweden. They both since start up again.

Rabid wrote:

Quote: AlgoMusic M42 Nebula cracked Hmmm. From what I hear so are the developers. Robert

YOUR ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!

TC

How's the FX plug coming, Tim?

How does this thread go again?

Warez must be stopped.
CP is crap.
CP is the answer.
Nothing will ever stop warez.
You are a warez user.
No I'm not!
Warez users should be shot.
I fucked your mother.
MOD: Now! Now! Peeps!
Sorry!
No, I'm sorry!
Let's share without shouting.
I love KVR!
The End!



(sleek usully adds to this list later on.)

sickle666 wrote:

How's the FX plug coming, Tim?

well...we are now starting to work on it again. Had some legal issues to attend to.

BTW: due to this, we put all the extras ( the new SF2 bank and the FXB that goes with it) for Registered users only. So they are now off the main download page with a note to that effect.

So if you want 20 samples and an extra 128 sounds...you have to pay your $45.00 :-)Not much really.

And Munchkin: THATS ABOUT RIGHT!

TC

tconrardy wrote:

sickle666 wrote: How's the FX plug coming, Tim? well...we are now starting to work on it again. Had some legal issues to attend to. BTW: due to this, we put all the extras ( the new SF2 bank and the FXB that goes with it) for Registered users only. So they are now off the main download page with a note to that effect. So if you want 20 samples and an extra 128 sounds...you have to pay your $45.00 :-)Not much really. And Munchkin: THATS ABOUT RIGHT! TC

Does M42 play soundfonts too?

I didn't quite understand the extra soundfont and extra .fxb. When I tried them with the demo, while I could access the extra sounds in the sf2 by changing bank, it didn't seem any of them were used in the presets. And the extra .fxb seemed identical to the factory bank too. Missed something maybe?

Quote:

[quote="aMUSEd Does M42 play soundfonts too?

Well...sort of..its not a SF2 player per say. You can replace the SF2 that is there with one of your own, ( and we kept it open that way on purpose, just in case if someone is a Vienna master) but then the factory sounds would not sound right. We created a pretty good SF2 that covers a lot of different areas, which you can minipulate with the M42 modulations. Thats where the real magic is.The DR is a wizard at the Veinna

TC
[/quote]

ahh, I see I probably just downloaded the factory bank, and that the extra sounds are in another preset bank.

Well if the new bank is near as good as the factory, I'm seriously considering m42. Just have to decide whether I want the Ravity deal first.

floyd wrote:

I didn't quite understand the extra soundfont and extra .fxb. When I tried them with the demo, while I could access the extra sounds in the sf2 by changing bank, it didn't seem any of them were used in the presets. And the extra .fxb seemed identical to the factory bank too. Missed something maybe?

Very stange. The new bank ( TC_M42_2.fxb ) has many different sounds especially SEQ patches. However, it may be a version ID number issue. They DO work with the full version however...and now only registered users can have that

anybody else have this issue ( before the download was taken off?) ..may not matter anymore however

TC

floyd wrote:

ahh, I see I probably just downloaded the factory bank, and that the extra sounds are in another preset bank. Well if the new bank is near as good as the factory, I'm seriously considering m42. Just have to decide whether I want the Ravity deal first.

To be honest..I think a lot of the patches in bank 2 are better, mostly because I was starting to understand the instrument a bit better and experimented some more. Especially on the SEQ and RYM patches!

TC

both banks are pretty damn good ...

yeppers the sounds are pretty damn good
but hurry up with the fx version

i just wanna run lesax through it

All we makers can do is 'DO OUR BEST' for our products and users.

Dear users, please don't enjoy the cracked version too much...
Think that someone uses your music without your agreement.

Good products should be chosen by many users,
then makers can develop their products,
and users can be satisfied much more.

yeap wrote:

All we makers can do is 'DO OUR BEST' for our products and users. Dear users, please don't enjoy the cracked version too much... Think that someone uses your music without your agreement. Good products should be chosen by many users, then makers can develop their products, and users can be satisfied much more.

I agree with everyone here, but, I still think that most music software is waaay overpriced.
I won´t quoth myself because then you´ll be thinking that I´m trolling.
I can say this though.
Any software with a price tag above $70 is too much imo (as long as the product doesn´t contain samples that you need to buy a license for too)
If it´s just software and no samples/presets that needs a license for commersial use, a pricetag of 0-70$ is reasonable. In other cases, the devs are just greedy.

mindless wrote:

I agree with everyone here, but, I still think that most music software is waaay overpriced. I won´t quoth myself because then you´ll be thinking that I´m trolling. I can say this though. Any software with a price tag above $70 is too much imo (as long as the product doesn´t contain samples that you need to buy a license for too) If it´s just software and no samples/presets that needs a license for commersial use, a pricetag of 0-70$ is reasonable. In other cases, the devs are just greedy.

Maybe you think the point of music softwares is SAMPLES...
But I think the point of them is their sound, functions, usabilities, etc...
Samples are just data, not music...

if people dont think a vst is worth the cash then dont buy it
but i think there are many over the 70$ mark that are worth their price tag
to me personally anyway
if i think the sound that synth b is what im after more than anything then its worth money to me,as i dont have the skill to code them myself so i should pay for others work

mindless wrote:

If it´s just software and no samples/presets that needs a license for commersial use, a pricetag of 0-70$ is reasonable. In other cases, the devs are just greedy.

By American standards (because it's all I know), minimum wage here is say, $5.00/hr. Ok, so say a developer works on an instrument for, I dunno, 120 hours. To be paid the BARE minimum on an equivilant with a burger flipper, that synth would have to be sold at $600. Granted, it's not bieng sold to one person, but how does one rate what cost vs development time should be? If they estimate seling $100 copies, the synth should be sold for $6??

That doesn't sound right to me for some reason...Tim, since this is your thread, what steps/considerations did you guys come to in pricing M42?

yeap wrote:

mindless wrote: I agree with everyone here, but, I still think that most music software is waaay overpriced. I won´t quoth myself because then you´ll be thinking that I´m trolling. I can say this though. Any software with a price tag above $70 is too much imo (as long as the product doesn´t contain samples that you need to buy a license for too) If it´s just software and no samples/presets that needs a license for commersial use, a pricetag of 0-70$ is reasonable. In other cases, the devs are just greedy. Maybe you think the point of music softwares is SAMPLES... But I think the point of them is their sound, functions, usabilities, etc... Samples are just data, not music...

What, do most musicsoft devs include music in their programs..do you have to pay for that too.
Hm, paying for demo tracks...I dunno.

A computer game that has taken somewhere between 1 to 2 years goes for $45...?!
And most multimedia companies have staff that needs money...not to think of the marketing.

A music software company are more than often just a couple of guys that makes a piece of (hopefully good and usable) music software...and then charges insane amounts of money for it.
My point is that a pice of music software that has been on the dev table for, perhaps 6 months to a year easily goes for $100+
What justifyes the cost.
I really want to know...and I´m NOT trolling or flamin´ so if you want to fight then do it somewhere else. Only meaningfull discussion will be listend to.

dont worry not flamin either just giving my opinion


like i said earlier there is only you that can decide whether synth a or b is affordable to you
its not a question of whether the price is right
if it is acceptable and no one purchases i think you would see a drop in prices so this to me suggests that a majority of synths are worth the money to somebody

vurt wrote:

dont worry not flamin either just giving my opinion like i said earlier there is only you that can decide whether synth a or b is affordable to you its not a question of whether the price is right if it is acceptable and no one purchases i think you would see a drop in prices so this to me suggests that a majority of synths are worth the money to somebody

Uhm, maybe, but why do ppl then use warez of cheap synths like the M42?
It´s prolly not to hard to pay 45$ (think that´s the price) wherever u live.
(If you can afford to get online with a computer, then u should afford the M42)

I just want to know why devs feel the urge to put cosmc prices on their products.
DigiDesign is a good example imo. You can´t justify the cost of their systems in anyway...

but it is not the cost of synths that make people use warez
a real user always pays for his goods
people that tend to use warez are people who do it for five minutes then move on to the latest cracks
ok some may be long term users but i reckon they are in a minority compared to the amount of warez used and downloaded?
but if people will use m42 warez as you say its affordable and i have heard of cheaper stuff being cracked so its not price to crackers its more of a game so thats not the issue.

as to whether a piece of software is worth a price that is up to the dev/company to decide what its worth to them as a saleable item,remember overheads and such then marketing costs also its not just a case of man hours its a hole heap of stuff

vurt wrote:

but it is not the cost of synths that make people use warez a real user always pays for his goods people that tend to use warez are people who do it for five minutes then move on to the latest cracks ok some may be long term users but i reckon they are in a minority compared to the amount of warez used and downloaded? but if people will use m42 warez as you say its affordable and i have heard of cheaper stuff being cracked so its not price to crackers its more of a game so thats not the issue. as to whether a piece of software is worth a price that is up to the dev/company to decide what its worth to them as a saleable item,remember overheads and such then marketing costs also its not just a case of man hours its a hole heap of stuff

Ok, that sounds about right to me...nice that someone has a bit of wisdom.

Ok, so who´s up for a "bash the crap out of DigiDesign" thread...hm, anyone....I know you want to

i dont know digi designs stuff myself but again if people dont buy it then maybe they would drop the prices

if you cant afford a product this doesnt mean you have a right to steal it(not saying you would just being general ok )it means you have to make do with what you cann afford
and in this world of a thousand and 1 free vsts you do not ever even need warez
only idiots need it there ya go
all without slaggin anyone

lifes nicer that way

of course, but it´s fun to badmouth evil ´n´ greedy companies...

edit: ahwell, perhaps forget it then.
I can onlu hope that they come to their sences and stop ripping ppl off!

i live in a dark place in my mind,im forever searching for the light.i find this helps.but i cant always push myself and then i become more than you could imagine about that much maybe?
but either way i try to go towards the light but...

vurt wrote:

i live in a dark place in my mind,im forever searching for the light.i find this helps.but i cant always push myself and then i become more than you could imagine about that much maybe? but either way i try to go towards the light but...

And I salute you!
Always keep at it I say...
I´m trying to be a nice person myself too.
but I do hold a grude on overpriced stuff...
(DVDs Cds Clothing, Food, Medicine, Rent, Cars, a visit to the Movies, the prices for a quick commute and well, almost everything that ppl need but get ripped of using)

dvds cds cars and the movies arent really necessities are they?
in the same way software isnt?

vurt wrote:

dvds cds cars and the movies arent really necessities are they? in the same way software isnt?

no, but they are overpriced...no?

yeah overpriced just not necessities

Hi

I think it IS easy to understand WHY people download warez of any description - it is human nature to want IT ALL - you could almost draw a parallel with a fisherman throwing out his net - in the hope (pre-sonar fishing here!) of a substantial catch.

If, lets say Native Instruments went out of business - but decided to put ALL their products on line without any copy protection - can anyone honestly say that for the next 24 hrs they would not download EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM that was avalible?

Beyond that - can anyone realy understand the criminal mind - I have worked in that sphere for 15 years and I can't!

But these people don't see any wrong in what they do - at least not until they are in front of a judge facing a 10 stretch for their efforts.

Its probably already been mentioned (I did not read every post) but this warez copy had to come from someone who purchased the product?

Or could the demo be pirated?

Or could a beta tester be guilty?

No offence intended to anyone - who knows for sure?

Flipper.

original flipper wrote:

Hi I think it IS easy to understand WHY people download warez of any description - it is human nature to want IT ALL - you could almost draw a parallel with a fisherman throwing out his net - in the hope (pre-sonar fishing here!) of a substantial catch. If, lets say Native Instruments went out of business - but decided to put ALL their products on line without any copy protection - can anyone honestly say that for the next 24 hrs they would not download EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM that was avalible? Beyond that - can anyone realy understand the criminal mind - I have worked in that sphere for 15 years and I can't! But these people don't see any wrong in what they do - at least not until they are in front of a judge facing a 10 stretch for their efforts. Its probably already been mentioned (I did not read every post) but this warez copy had to come from someone who purchased the product? Or could the demo be pirated? Or could a beta tester be guilty? No offence intended to anyone - who knows for sure? Flipper.

didn´t u use to have something like 2000+ posts.

Personally, I don't like those who use warez music software. But this thread is straying a bit OT. Anyone else have "preferably free" pad suggestions?

your in the wrong thread then mate this is the thread about this synth bein cracked
you want the next thread on the left

Hi

I use 'Flipper' although as someone already had that tag i am officially 'Original Flipper' - maybe he/she had 2,000 post's - I would like to think it would take me a decade to nudge that figure!

Original_Flipper....AKA...Flipper ..Flipper1960@patcharena .....Porpoise at various other venues..not to mention....Beverley(don't ask why)...Ghost..ect!

Ok, so here's the deal with warezers:

They download stuff because they don't want to pay. They know the morality issues, and they know about the free stuff... but when they want a synth, they weigh the cost and the ethical implications together, and go for the warez. You can try talking to them, and they'll listen, but they won't give up piracy (normally); because if they did, that means no Absynth, no Albino2, no FM7, no z3ta+, no Slayer2. It's understandable.

It's hard not being a pirate. Believe me.

The working adult has a different perspective. They make money, they can spend it on whatever they want; it's like being a kid in a candy store, except the candy is very expensive. When you don't have an income, and you have to justify expenditures to your parents, it's like being a kid in a candy store, where the candy is unreachable and forbidden. It has nothing to do with the whole "forbidden fruit" psyche thing... it's not about human psychology. It has everything to do with wanting high quality synths to use in their music.

Rellik wrote:

Ok, so here's the deal with warezers: They download stuff because they don't want to pay. They know the morality issues, and they know about the free stuff... but when they want a synth, they weigh the cost and the ethical implications together, and go for the warez. You can try talking to them, and they'll listen, but they won't give up piracy (normally); because if they did, that means no Absynth, no Albino2, no FM7, no z3ta+, no Slayer2. It's understandable. It's hard not being a pirate. Believe me. The working adult has a different perspective. They make money, they can spend it on whatever they want; it's like being a kid in a candy store, except the candy is very expensive. When you don't have an income, and you have to justify expenditures to your parents, it's like being a kid in a candy store, where the candy is unreachable and forbidden. It has nothing to do with the whole "forbidden fruit" psyche thing... it's not about human psychology. It has everything to do with wanting high quality synths to use in their music.

mmm...I guess that´s it a bit of both really...
Afterall, being a pirate can make you very rich (in the old day of big ships and black flags) and still they plunder...It has nothing todo with being a pirate...they have no moral issues.

No, warez users use warez because they can(and need)...simple as that.

There is no cut and dry reason why people use and trade warez.

Some of you are saying its purely down to their greed, others are say that its because they cannot afford it, and other people say its the law of the forbidden...

You can't catagorise warez users like this, and all it does is convolute the problem. Warez users are people.. they're not all the same and their motivations vary.

Thats why its hard to eliminate warez - Because people have a motivation for it. They don't do it because they "can", they do it because they "want to" and that is the only certain thing you can say about them.

Why should one eliminate warez?

The question might seem a bit harsh, but the answer is definately not obvious. You'd need to be able to answer several questions to answer the above.

A few example questions:
Does high application popularity amongst warez users increase or decrease sales of the said application?

Is the cracked product the same product you would get one buying it? If so, can't this be changed by the developers?

Etc.

I'm afraid the answer IS obvious:

Because it is theft. Which is not only illegal, but (for the anarchists among us) also immoral. That's the bottom line and no amount of justification will change that one basic premise.

I remember reading some story on big warez traders, I think it might have been in Wired a few years ago. It seems that for a lot of people, trading warez boils down to a compulsive obsession to have the ultimate software collection. They just have to keep getting new stuff in order to feel fulfilled, even though they rarely use the software they collect.

Lunch Money wrote:

I'm afraid the answer IS obvious: Because it is theft. Which is not only illegal, but (for the anarchists among us) also immoral. That's the bottom line and no amount of justification will change that one basic premise.

Sorry, I do not see what's obvious. If stealing the software for instance results in more money for the developer, which probably would make atleast two persons happier and none sadder, what's immoral about it? When you start discussing morality you are on very thin ice about what's "obvious", since there are no objective morals. If you think that it's always immoral to break the law, then I understand your point of view, but I don't think everybody would agree with that kind of morals.

deastman:
I doubt those kind of warez people are the problem, I mean, they are not even using the software, so it's not even remotely possible that they'd pay for it. Granted, they are very silly though

wow...sounds like a very good debate on Warez in general.

Here is a little reversal, but involves a "dead" ( more or less) platform. There are a lot of programs on my Atari site that with the programmers consent is a Cracked copy, mostly becuase there is no downloadable form of the actual program becuase in those days, it used the dreaded Key-Disc copy protection. The only copies we could find were cracked, and when I asked the actual programmers, they said it was OK..as it was " preserving" thier program for prosperity in a way. Maybe this only involves programs that were done on say Atari or Amega for that matter...but I asked the actual programmers and companies for permission, so all the stuff on my site is legal.We even edited the RSC file to put in "freeware" and took out the "Cracked BY" stuff.

This took YEARS BTW: the hardest was the Hotz MIDI Translator software which involves a licence agreement as well...but you can download it for free...and even run it on PC thru emulation ( STeem) BTW: just set up Steem on my XP machine..works great. I use MIDI Yoke to connect it to Tracktion and can play programs like Tunesmith or M on my fav softsynths! ( like M42!)

TC

I have no desire to argue about the morality or immorality of stealing someone's work. If you are really THAT desperate for a philosophical debate about whether it is "right" or "wrong", I'd suggest starting a separate thread, because it's pretty clear to any veteran forum user that it's the short path to thread hijack-dom. <chuckle>

Despite your statement to the contrary, I think you know what I meant by "obvious", and I'll just leave it at that.

One thing I WOULD be interested in knowing is how you think that use of warez translates into money for the developer? I suppose somewhere there COULD be an argument for it, but it would be based on speculation, hypothesis, and assumptions that may or may not be false ones. You'll not likely find any facts to support that statement in any dissertations on practical economics (ie. a tried-and-tested model, not just theory), and nor will you find many software developers who are willing to say "Yah! If it weren't for people stealing my software, I wouldn't have bread on my table! Go to it!"

Greg

Lunch Money wrote:

[snip] One thing I WOULD be interested in knowing is how you think that use of warez translates into money for the developer? I suppose somewhere there COULD be an argument for it, but it would be based on speculation, hypothesis, and assumptions that may or may not be false ones. You'll not likely find any facts to support that statement in any dissertations on practical economics (ie. a tried-and-tested model, not just theory), and nor will you find many software developers who are willing to say "Yah! If it weren't for people stealing my software, I wouldn't have bread on my table! Go to it!" [snap]

I never said nor implied that I think "warez-popularity" translates into money for the developer, and you're right. It would be purely speculative. So would claiming that warez-popularity results in money-loss for the developer be.

Still, one (in my opinion major) point is that developers can make it impossible to get the product they are selling as a identical "warezed" product.

About that last "quote", well, some developers have said similar things, so at that single point I'd disagree with you.

Amberience wrote:

There is no cut and dry reason why people use and trade warez. Some of you are saying its purely down to their greed, others are say that its because they cannot afford it, and other people say its the law of the forbidden... You can't catagorise warez users like this, and all it does is convolute the problem. Warez users are people.. they're not all the same and their motivations vary. Thats why its hard to eliminate warez - Because people have a motivation for it. They don't do it because they "can", they do it because they "want to" and that is the only certain thing you can say about them.

Wrong, I hardly think that warez users wants to use illegal software...They do it because the opportunity is there to get something for "free" without risking uhm, personal injury or the possibillity of a chase around the block by a policeman.

The thing is, when u are faced with a choise, some of you do the "right" thing and others do the "wrong" thing (maybe because they have to?) and some of you just don´t care! why? Because we/they can!

To stop warez/theft/pirates/whatever you need to change ppls way of thinking.

I would like to add my view. Warez is theft, it is not a life or death threat to the thief’s existence as absolute poverty would be in relation to the starved stealing to survive. Excuses for it are simply that and are worth no more than any other excuse for stealing through personal choice.

One small crumb of comfort for the developer was I had not come across this before therefore I tried it, liked it a lot, and ten minutes later purchased the full version. Does this not prove the old adage about publicity?

stefancrs wrote:

I never said nor implied that I think "warez-popularity" translates into money for the developer, and you're right. It would be purely speculative. So would claiming that warez-popularity results in money-loss for the developer be.

But you DID imply it: "If stealing the software for instance results in more money for the developer, which probably would make atleast two persons happier and none sadder, what's immoral about it?" That means that your argument hinges on at least the possibility that stealing software could result in more money for the developer.

Claiming that using warez results in money loss for the developer is not speculation. If somebody "owns" a piece of warez, that means that they have the product, and the developer does NOT have the money. That is a statement of fact. However, as with many arguments, I DO understand what you mean... which is that it's possible in some convoluted way that the warez COULD end up netting more money for the developer if the thief liked the program and decided to buy it. However, that part IS speculation, and the fact of ownership without payment is not.

If I steal a Porsche and take it for a 'test' drive, and then return it when I'm done, I may in fact decide to buy a ferrari. More likely, I couldn't afford the Porsche in the first place, so I won't. And in the meantime, the theft of the Porsche was illegal (whether or not it is "immoral" is a matter for debate, I'll concede).

On the other hand, if I go to a dealership, and they LET me test drive a Porsche, it's up to them what the restrictions are. Will a sales associate be present in the car with me? Will they let me take it on my own, based on the identification I've presented? Who knows, but it's up to the dealership--not me--to decide.

It's the same with software. People can argue until they're blue in the face, but it's all justification for the bottom line: No matter how well intentioned, and no matter what the end result COULD be for the user and developer, the act of owning warez is theft, just as stealing the Porsche was. A Demo version is the developer's way of letting us "test drive", and it's up to THEM to decide if they're going to let us use a partial feature set, a full feature set, or--in rare cases--to not provide a demo at all! That's not our decision to make, and it's not up to us to make our OWN demo just because those "stupid" developers didn't realize that they're "losing a sale" by only letting me demo "crippled" and "useless" software.

Hell, I wanted to take that Porsche up to 180 km/h, too, but on Provincial highways and with a sales associate sitting next to me... it wasn't going to happen, you know? And that's as it should be, no matter how much I wanted to step on the gas.

Quote:

Still, one (in my opinion major) point is that developers can make it impossible to get the product they are selling as a identical "warezed" product.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. If developers make it difficult to obtain the software (poor distribution, crashing servers, no presence in my country of residence) then I guess I'll just have to suffer. I can't drive a new "old-style" Beetle in Canada, either, because they're not for sale here.

Quote:

About that last "quote", well, some developers have said similar things, so at that single point I'd disagree with you.

I'll have to take your word for it. I haven't met one, and I challenge you to find me a developer or a quote on their website in which they say that warez trade helped them prosper. It's not that I don't believe it's possible... it's that I've never come across it, myself.

Greg

Lunch Money wrote:

stefancrs wrote: I never said nor implied that I think "warez-popularity" translates into money for the developer, and you're right. It would be purely speculative. So would claiming that warez-popularity results in money-loss for the developer be. But you DID imply it: "If stealing the software for instance results in more money for the developer, which probably would make atleast two persons happier and none sadder, what's immoral about it?" That means that your argument hinges on at least the possibility that stealing software could result in more money for the developer.

Oh, then we just think differently about what an implication is For me, what I wrote was just a question and nothing else.

Lunch Money wrote:

Claiming that using warez results in money loss for the developer is not speculation. If somebody "owns" a piece of warez, that means that they have the product, and the developer does NOT have the money.

Nor would he if said somebody did not warez it. Unfortunately, software, until we actually can make "illegal replicas" of anything, differs from hardware. Otherwise we would not even debate this subject.

Lunch Money wrote:

That is a statement of fact. However, as with many arguments, I DO understand what you mean... which is that it's possible in some convoluted way that the warez COULD end up netting more money for the developer if the thief liked the program and decided to buy it. However, that part IS speculation, and the fact of ownership without payment is not.

I would not say that anyone that has illegaly copied any software owns that software, nor a license to use it (one usually does not own software when using it legally either).

Lunch Money wrote:

It's the same with software. People can argue until they're blue in the face, but it's all justification for the bottom line: No matter how well intentioned, and no matter what the end result COULD be for the user and developer, the act of owning warez is theft, just as stealing the Porsche was. A Demo version is the developer's way of letting us "test drive", and it's up to THEM to decide if they're going to let us use a partial feature set, a full feature set, or--in rare cases--to not provide a demo at all! That's not our decision to make, and it's not up to us to make our OWN demo just because those "stupid" developers didn't realize that they're "losing a sale" by only letting me demo "crippled" and "useless" software.

Well, it would be up to them, if warez did not exist. Now, the choice is up to the software (ab)users.

Lunch Money wrote:

Quote: Still, one (in my opinion major) point is that developers can make it impossible to get the product they are selling as a identical "warezed" product. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. If developers make it difficult to obtain the software (poor distribution, crashing servers, no presence in my country of residence) then I guess I'll just have to suffer. I can't drive a new "old-style" Beetle in Canada, either, because they're not for sale here.

Oh, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm thinking more along the lines that there should be more to paying for a product than just getting some software. I know that there often is, but one can always question if the product (not just the software) is good enough compared to a cracked version I guess.

Lunch Money wrote:

Quote: About that last "quote", well, some developers have said similar things, so at that single point I'd disagree with you. I'll have to take your word for it. I haven't met one, and I challenge you to find me a developer or a quote on their website in which they say that warez trade helped them prosper. It's not that I don't believe it's possible... it's that I've never come across it, myself. Greg

Yeah, well, I do not have any urls in handy I'm afraid. But nevertheless, the impact of warez-popularity upon legal sales of a product probably differs a lot between different fields of software. I remember that alias wavefront had nothing against young people using cracked versions of maya, but then, they would _never_ buy it because it's expensive stuff. Alias wavefronts line of thought was that these kiddies wanted to use maya as professionals later on as well, when they get jobs at game companies etc. And in this particular case they are probably right. The artists ofcourse wants to use what they think is the best software, and if they haven't used it extensively before they probably don't even have a qualified opinion in the matter. But this particular case is far far far away from most VSTi cases, since they are AIMED at hobbyists.

Sorry for messing this thread up, but there's not much to do about that a certain software has been cracked. Today, if the product is popular/good enought, it'll unfortunately get cracked. And afaik M42 rox, no?

From what I can tell, the crux of your argument is that software is different than hardware because it can and IS copied.

Here's what I try to do, and I wonder if you'll think the same way after trying it for a while:

Think of software as an "item"... something you'd have to go into a store for, and hold in your hand, and put on the counter, and then give the salesperson money for, before walking out of the store.

Because that's what it IS, whether we can touch it or not.

Once you make this connection, any pro-warez arguments will seem weak and futile.

Lunch Money wrote:

Think of software as an "item"... something you'd have to go into a store for, and hold in your hand, and put on the counter, and then give the salesperson money for, before walking out of the store. )

Wha

But software isn't a physical item. You can't hold it in your hand, and in this industry you can't even resell it many times.

Software is totally different. A digital copy doesn't take a copy from someone else, as stealing a Triton from a music store would. Its pointless to compare them.

sorry folks ...

... interesting as it looked like it might become ...

... heading into old (and pointless territory)

slainte rob