I'm thinking about buying a hardware synth but to tell the truth i have no idea where to start. I've been using software synths for the last year or so and I would like to buy a HW synth to see what they are like.

Can anyone recommend a synth or 2? I'm thinking something simple that can do bass and lead sounds, or a drum machine. I will buy something new if its cheap enough, but i would prefer to be able to find something 2nd hand.

shannon

before we can make any really useful recommendations, we'd need some more info from you.


whats your price range?

what features are you looking to have?

can you give us some more examples of the types of sounds you are looking for?

what style(s) of music do you write?

do you want a keyboard or is a rack module ok too?

do you require lots of knobs or are you ok programming through menus or software editors?

what types of synths do you tend to prefer? (va, rompler, fm, etc?)

how much polyphony do you want/need?

do you need a multi timbral synth?


-ugo

I favor k-station. This is easy to programme, and the sounds are very good. The case being you want analog sounding I try many and buy nord lead 2x. Best for this sound. Nord Lead 3 is good as well, but I can barely program the 2x!

For the money, a used AN1x is the best bet. They are going for $300 - $400 (even seen them for $250 on ebay!) Polyphony is 8, which is plenty for me.

Of course, I'm assuming it's a VA you want and price is an issue.

If money is no object, the new Kurzweil VA looks mouthwatering. And anything made by Novation.

price, $500, maybe $600, australian. is that enough?

I'm looking for a cheap synth as an intoduction to using hardware. or a really synthetic drum synth because i don't really like any of the software drum synths i've tried (i really like the sound of synthetic drums, but the interfaces have always annoyed me).

features,
i would like something that can be intergrated with cubase. i will have a m-audio delta 1010lite soundcard next week. At the moment, i'm thinking run the midi out from the seqencer to the synth, and the audio is routed into cubase to be recorded and/or effected. So i would like something that can recieve patch change messages, so i don't need to program the synth everytime i load up a different song.

type of sound,
for a synth, just something to do lead and bass sounds mainly. something with 2 osc, a filter, an envelope for each.

For a drum machine, something older and simpler probably. Synthetic drum sounds, probably not sampled based.

I'm really interested in different timbres so something that can produce a variety of sounds would be great, but its not essential.

I write electronica, sometimes it sounds really synthetic, isan, and other times its combined with recorded instruments. i don't know how to explain it properly.

I would prefer a keyboard, but a rack module is ok if there are enough reasons to buy a rack module.
I would preter something with knobs over menus. In the case of a synth having menus, i would like to be able to change most of the parmeters using a midi knob box. (i've got a kawai MM-16 mdi mixer with 16 slders on it)

For a drumsynth, i would like some pads or buttons to bang out dodgy rhythms.

as for the type of synth, i like programming patches for specific songs. so something that is resonably flexible. But i understand i pay for what i get. so any type of synth except a rompler.

As for polyphony, cheaper is better, so a limited polyphony would be ok.


I would probably choose a cool drum synth over a normal keyboard synth.

At the moment, i'm pretty happy with my purely software setup. by looking at hardware, i think i'm just looking for something to supplement what I've got. It doesn't need to do everything.

the AN1x looks nice. From first impressions it looks like it gets a lot of good reviews.

I like the Lord Lead 2/Lead 2x... a new 2X goes for US$800 rack and US$1000 keyboard. A used 2 or 2X would go for a lot less, I owned a Lead 2 for a while, I just wasn't into a hardware synthesizer, I sold it and got a PCM-based keyboard (a Yamaha PSR-2000) instead and stuck with VSTI for VA's.

I also like the Alesis Ion, it sounds great. The polyphony is a little slim though, and some people have reported reliability issues (cheap keyboard, etc).

Doug

i have an emu orbit and a cs1x. that gives me bass, leads, pads, drums, multiple outputs and arpegiator, knobs to twiddle, plenty of polyphony, pretty much everything for a beginner.

the only downsides are:

1. the cs1x's midi implementation. as it's best voices are combis and these don't play in multi timbral mode (although the manual does show you how you make up the multis from 3/4 "normal voices" which gives you 4/5 parts from the cs1x and 16 from the orbit)

2. the orbits lack of fx (which is easily rectified with some vstis in cubase)

you ain't going to set the world alight but between them they make a pretty reasonable (very cheap) basis for a studio. add a couple of choice vsti's and your laughing.

i'm not sure that you can get either of them new anymore (the orbits onto v3) but the pair will set you back about £250 - £300 second hand

hope this was useful
steve.

ps. apart from free vstis, i use this setup on all of my tunes, so have listen and see if i'm getting sounds you like.

Hell, get the credit card out and go mad on an Accsess Virus C for £1000 or the Rack XL version for £800 or even a Nord Lead X2 rack for around £600.
But if you want to be sensible with your cash then go for a Yamaha CS2X, they are going for around the £400 mark now, nice synth

i sold my virus indigo.
i think this is no synth at all.
sounds realy thin.

all those virtual analog ones can be beaten with the advanteges from software synths.
I do not like the fact to have that much AD DA conversion with DigitalSound.

Choose a good software replica you like best, and go buy the original, like i would love to buy me a korg ms20.

I can recomand the Korg LegacyCollection, with it`s realy enjoyable Controler.

Get a genuine analogue synth, like an SH-101, or a Roland Juno, or any old obscure synth that you can find in a car boot sale or second hand shop, hopefully with a MIDI or at least CV input. None of this messing about with software synths in shiny boxes, if you're going to go for hardware, go for something where there is at least a shadow of a doubt that it could be reproduced exactly on a computer.

Just my ideology though... Hardware has many disadvantages - lack of VST integration, lack of total recall, takes up space, you can't instantiate a hardware unit twice, etc etc. That's why I just think you should make the best of the advantages that using a hardware unit offers, i.e something which cannot necessarily be done in software, just to compensate for these disadvantages. I played with a Hohner Pianet the other day, and as great as Lounge Lizard is, there is still an undefinable something different about it to any emulation.

I'd make an exception for the Yamaha VL-70m though, cos there's nothing like it in software at the moment (patent issues).

Your price range is a bit low for what I'll suggest, but I'd say the last of the 'complete synths' is the Yamaha EX5. Offering AWM, AN, VL, FDSP, Sampling, Sequencing, and arpeggiator all in one unit. The drag is all the 'accesories' you have to get for it - EDO RAM (up to 64MB), 16MB Flash RAM (easier to find the Holy Grail today), SCSI output board (which is slower than a constipated snail), Word Clock board, 6 output board (not really 'essential' - but you can't install both at the same time. )
Yamaha had good intentions behind the design back in '98 - but alot of the 'shortcuts' and 'suck ins' piss me off still. But for versatility and features compared to a Yamaha Motif, it's the better deal still...

Yamaha Motif - supposedly the 'ultimate workstation'. Very PC/Mac friendly with USB ports and Mappings. mLAN(?) And a much more robust sequncer on board for pattern making and phrase looping. Drawbacks... AN, VL, FM have to be bought separately via PLG boards. No floppy drive, but Smart Media slot - which are already being 'phased out'. Screen selection, and most of all - PRICE! You could buy a laptop, desktop keyboard, and $6000 worth of music software for the price of a 'loaded' Motif!

Just my 2 cents.

veryangrymobster wrote:

the AN1x looks nice. From first impressions it looks like it gets a lot of good reviews.

AN1x is a good synth. I had one for a few years until I sold it off a year or so ago. Good interface, nice sound.

Devon

I would also recommend the AN1x.

I have it since 2 years now, and use it as my masterkeyboard too.

You can use the an1x software-editor., that makes it easier to edit.
The Synth is capable of a huge variety of sounds, for good basses, leads, everything depends on how good you learn to know this little beast.

but there are also hundreds or thousands of patches on the net for the AN1x.
and a very active and helpfull yahoo-group.

The An1x can do sounds from warm analog to sharp digital.
And don´t forget youcan record 4 envelopes on a patch added to the filter and amp envelopes.

Another affordable Synth is the Waldorf µQ.I also have one.
It has 25 voices and 16 multuitimbral parts.
It is also very versatile, but it has got its own sound caracter, some say it is german sounding, it means it is cold and digital more then others, you can´t get too much warmth out of it, but you can get pretty good sounds and a wide range too, and it has drum maps.
It should now go on ebay for about 400$ US.

Stephan

I have the same problem, but i didn't want to start a new topic two hours later.

I'm going to buy a hardware synth soon but i'm confused by too many different synths with quite many similarities.
I'm none of those who say analogue/subtractive is generally better than VA or FM. Would be nice to have something that isn't yet reproduced as a (equal sounding) VSTi, though.
I produce kind of ambient drum'n'dass/jungle with jazz influences. If you know LTJ Bukem or 4 Hero then you know what I mean.
I've been reading many reviews, I've heard many demostreams and got to know the following synths:

• Waldorf MicroQ
  
• Novation K-Station
  
• Korg Wavestation
  
• Redsound Darkstar (seriously )
  
• Roland Juno60
  
• Korg Polysix
  

The sounds i'd like to create are:

• Interesting evolving pads
  
• Rhodes-like sounds that can be played to chords (although they needn't sound like something real)
  
• Basses (needn't be 303-style)
  
• Ambient SFX that can be thrown in.
  

I don't really need any technical features but I want to be able to create very different sounds (so no pure bass synthesizer). It should have at least 6-8 voice polyphony and memory. And there should be hardly any controls with two values assigned to it.
A vocoder would be nice, but not neccessary.
It should also be quite reliable since i live on a small budget.

My price range is up to 400euro, which is about $480.

I'd prefer a keyboard synth but if I bought a desktop module i could buy a cheap velocity-sensitive MIDI keyboard and build something to keep them together.
A Rack Synth would be okay if it has enough controls, see above.

I don't know if i need multi-timbrality. Perhaps it would be nice for SFX?

timewastin wrote:

I have the same problem, but i didn't want to start a new topic two hours later. I'm going to buy a hardware synth soon but i'm confused by too many different synths with quite many similarities. I'm none of those who say analogue/subtractive is generally better than VA or FM. Would be nice to have something that isn't yet reproduced as a (equal sounding) VSTi, though. I produce kind of ambient drum'n'dass/jungle with jazz influences. If you know LTJ Bukem or 4 Hero then you know what I mean. I've been reading many reviews, I've heard many demostreams and got to know the following synths: Waldorf MicroQ Novation K-Station Korg Wavestation Redsound Darkstar (seriously ) Roland Juno60 Korg Polysix The sounds i'd like to create are: Interesting evolving pads Rhodes-like sounds that can be played to chords (although they needn't sound like something real) Basses (needn't be 303-style) Ambient SFX that can be thrown in. I don't really need any technical features but I want to be able to create very different sounds (so no pure bass synthesizer). It should have at least 6-8 voice polyphony and memory. And there should be hardly any controls with two values assigned to it. A vocoder would be nice, but not neccessary. It should also be quite reliable since i live on a small budget. My price range is up to 400euro, which is about $480. I'd prefer a keyboard synth but if I bought a desktop module i could buy a cheap velocity-sensitive MIDI keyboard and build something to keep them together. A Rack Synth would be okay if it has enough controls, see above. I don't know if i need multi-timbrality. Perhaps it would be nice for SFX?

Having just posted on the subject of what VSTi sounds the most like an Ensoniq,I feel that I should put in a recommendation for these great machines in this thread.All the synthas mentioned in this thread are great,but I strongly suggest looking into a VFX series Ensoniq.The VFX,VFXSD(with sequencer),SD1,and TS10,and the SQ series,including the SQ1 and 2(76 key)and a setof 88key models based on the SQ architecture the KT series,all also with sequencers.
The VFX series allowed you to layer 6 oscilator-filter-amp lines with extensive modulation possibilities.A key feature were the Transwaves,wavetables which could be swept by modulators including performance controllers.The SQ series had all this but only three layers.But don't feel cheated by that,the SQ's had more and different effects that I liked better,and a dedicated drum mode.
The bottom line,however is sound,and I can assure you that there is nothing like these synths in the world,not then or now.Also from Ensoniq were their earlier ESQ1 and SQ80,both excellent synths and going cheap these days,but not as powerful as their descendents.Later Ensoniq products such as the MR and ZR series are ok,but not as programmable in the box(they came bundled with editing software)and frankly not as visionary or inspiring as the VFX's.
Prices on these synths range from around $200 US to $500.

a nice pair is an an200 and a dx200 (analog and fm)...i usually use them as a backend for my rm1x...but i found out they're also nice to play free form...

I'm selling my Waldorf Micro Q (Yellow).
PM me if you're interested.

I have an AN1x as well and while I love the quality of it's sound, I find that the user interface leaves much to be desired (in classic Yamaha fashion). Fortunately, the software editor front-end is brilliant and generally makes up for these deficiencies.

For a hardware synth, user interface is one of the most important aspects for me. Considering your general price range, for intuitive user interfaces and quality sound I would probably recommend:

* Novation Nova (you will need to get it used)
* Novation K-Station
* Korg MS2000 (not high poly, but excellent sound and flexible programmability)
* Clavia Nord Lead 2(or x)

My advice would be to look for something with plenty of knobs, sliders and buttons on. That's still where hardware scores for me - the immediacy of having the controls at your fingertips. A supernova, Z1 or an old first Juno are great instruments both in sound and learning how to program.

If you want a workstation solution with a bit of everything then maybe look around for a first generation Trinity on ebay. Not much in the way of control but they're good instruments and have plenty of depth.

Choosing a synth is a very personal choice, and opinions will vary widely. Make sure you demo before buying anything or at least listen to lots & lots of samples!

That being said, going by your initial description, I would take a close look at the Dave Smith Evolver

It's a monosynth, under $500 and you get 2 analogue oscillators, 2 digital oscillators, a step sequencer and mind numbing modulation possibilties. It's the only hard synth I own and boatloads of fun. It really comes into it's own when you use the OSC's with step sequencer as a loop factory but when I do use it as a synth, can produce some nice mini-moogish leads and such that are a real joy to play with. Someone has lots of Evo demos up on site somewhere (I think it's trippler.net). Oh and it cuts through the mix like hot butter!

Just my two cents...
-Rick

The Ensoniq SQ-80 seems to be nice, especially the polyphonic aftertouch keyboard.

But i think i won't find one.
Where else could i look for it apart from ebay?

btw: What do you think about the Darkstar? Is it possible to make good SFX with it?

Tronam wrote:

I have an AN1x as well and while I love the quality of it's sound, I find that the user interface leaves much to be desired (in classic Yamaha fashion).

Flipping throuhg menu after menu with up/down arrows only is better than the knob selector thingy on the right? Ya, it's not the greatest, but it's certainly a LOT better than their FS1r! I thought the interface made it pretty easy to find where everything was and quick to work with in comparison to a lot of hardware synths.

Devon

I like the look of the Roland V Synth. Anyone got one?

Isnt the Alesis Ion the best value hardware synth at the moment?

Another vote for K-Station. Lots of usable sounds, easy to tweak and you can disconnect teh interface from the sound engine and use it as a straight MIDI controller. I got mine brand new in Hong Kong for aroud A$630 but they are twice that here. Look around for a 2nd hand one.

So far everyone has made good suggestions, so I'd like to throw my 2 cents in.

Since Kurzweil introduced the K2600, the price of a seconhand K2500 has dropped considerably. If you can check one out, you'll be impressed.

Apart from it's superb sound quality and versatile synth engine (VAST), it is also an excellent hardware controller for DAW's - Loads of sliders, switches, controller inputs, etc, all freely configurable.

Also, if you get one with the sampling option, you can use what Kurzweil call "Live Mode" whereby you can input audio into the Kurz and process it in realtime with the synth engine and onboard FX. This makes it a truly unique hardware FX processor.

The K2500's VAST synth engine is capable of many different kinds of synthesis, including analog, and FM. It has a top quality set of onboard samples in ROM (including some excellent drums), which can be expanded with ROM boards. AND even without the sampling option, it can still load samples from floppy or SCSI drives and mangle them in any way you can imagine.

There's LOADS of third party sounds for it on the net and ALL of the K series are compatible with each other, so if you like a sound from a K2000 you can load it into a K2500.

Also, Kurzweil regularly update the OS which is freely downloadable from their site.

For me, A kurzweil with a DAW is a marriage made in heaven.

Hard and soft - the way to go.

I think you price range translates to about $400US so here are a few that I can think of in that range if you look for good used equipment.

E-mu XL-7. These can sometimes be found at a good price. You get knobs, 128 voice polyphony, and an excellent beatbox type sequencer. You still have menus on the XL-7 but they are logical. It is one of my favorite pieces.

Yamaha AN-200. Bought mine new for $200US when they were bing blown out. You get knobs, patterns, beatbox functions, and a decent VA. It will be a little easier to program patches on than the DX-200. One thing I don't like about these and the Korg Electribes is that the patch is tied to the pattern.

Korg Electribe R or A - The ER-1 will give you good synthethic drums. EA-1 will give you two monophonic synth channels. They can also be used to process external sounds for hardware gate effects. I think these go for just under $150US used.

Novation K-Station - This keyboard is probably the cheapest decent VA available.

Korg MS2000R - A nice sounding rack synth with lots of dedicated sliders and knobs. The one complaint is low polyphony. There is also keyboard version available for more money.

Robert

I'm quite sure i'll get a K-Station, but it would be nice to hear something about the DarkStar's disadvantages. Hard to find something about that...

timewastin wrote:

I'm quite sure i'll get a K-Station, but it would be nice to hear something about the DarkStar's disadvantages. Hard to find something about that...

The darkstar got several good reviews... I dunno that it was a good seller. I made the mistake of not getting one when Guitar Center blew them out about a year ago, they went down to $200, then like $125 for the last few.

Doug

My vote goes for the Virus C!

The darkstar is still on sale in germany, it is the xp2. (musicstore koeln for round 175€)
It is also a good synth with 8 voices and 5 parts.
but it got almost no screen, you have only 4 number digits to dial through. But it has many knobs. So I find it is easy to programm. Don´t give to much about the factory presets. it cann do some great basses, special with layering the 5 parts.
Hopefully soon there will be a pc editor for this little beast, have a look in the yahoo group.
The sound of the xp2 is a bit rough and hard, but unique in his way.

Stephan

virus c, definately, if you got teh bucks

lqb wrote:

virus c, definately, if you got teh bucks

I'd like to, but as you guessed, i don't have the money. Although the Virus C is a bit overused in today's dance productions...

rsmus7 wrote:

The sound of the xp2 is a bit rough and hard, but unique in his way.

Do you know if it can be properly used for SFX? Or is it just for basses and leads?

you have to use a virus or TB-303

I'll probably look like the odd one out here, but my single most inspiring synth-purchase the last 5 years has been the Clavia Micro Modular: Ok, it's not multitimbral, nor much polyphony (1-4 voices) and it ain't got no FX section either, but man, this little thing kicks some serious ass!

Now, for me, the polyphony thing is no big issue (sampling and multitracking takes care of that) and I always record my outboard gear without their internal FX anyway, so I don't miss those either. What I love it for is its pure, powerful sounds. While some synths have their presets drenched in delays, reverbs and whatnot, the Micro is just clean, strong and simple.

The pure flexibility of this baby is what makes it so great for me: thousands and thousands of patches to be found on the web, and soooo much fun to make your own stuff once you get into it. I use it alot for arpeggiator lines, basses, leads and stabs, some strings/pads (but not much, see polyphony problems). I use it live for atmospherics, as a filter/distortion/mangling unit or vocoder, or just as a lead synth...

You'll need to run the editor alongside your sequencer to use it properly, but it's no big deal. I belive you can pick one up for about 300 USD, or maybe 150-200 on the second hand market. It's now discontinued, so the prices might drop further. Worth considering, if you can live with the shortcomings.

Just my 2 Norwegian Crowns.

Arne S.

i like my cheapo waldorf pulse

only second hand these days but a dirt cheap real 3osc analogue synth - all the midi control a man could want - and if you get the plus version you get audio inputs so you can filter things to your hearts content

a few rob papen presets available for those of the lazy disposition

The Micro Modular looks nice, but i'd like to use it without my PC, sometimes. And the Nord Modular (which has at least some controls) is a bit too expensive. So it's no serious option.
The Pulse is monophonic, i badly need polyphony.

I forgot about the Nord Micro-Modular until someone mentioned it above. You can pick those up pretty cheaply now. Don't expect many knobs, but the computer editor is great.

Robert

Edit - By the way, you can use the micro-modular without a computer, but you need the computer to build patches.

timewastin wrote:

lqb wrote: virus c, definately, if you got teh bucks I'd like to, but as you guessed, i don't have the money. Although the Virus C is a bit overused in today's dance productions... rsmus7 wrote: The sound of the xp2 is a bit rough and hard, but unique in his way. Do you know if it can be properly used for SFX? Or is it just for basses and leads?

depends on what kind of SFX you want.
Sure you can also programm FX.
I havn´t done it yet, cause I didn´t need it. Go to the yahoo group and ask there, there are some kind people.

thanks for your replies, i'm going to keep looking around and wait till i save up some more money.

This is a great thread! After playing with VSTis for years, and getting into controllers, I realize now that what I really want is a hardware synth that I can simply turn on, play, and turn knobs on to generate new and cool sounds. No fumbling with a host, no midi learn, etc. It looks like that K-station will really fit the bill, and it looks like a great controller as well. I'm gonna start hunting around for one...

Thanks!

That may be the idea behind the new Novation controllers with a built in K-Station engine. But those are EXPENSIVE!

Robert

timewastin wrote:

Although the Virus C is a bit overused in today's dance productions...

Then don't use the presets! Make your own sounds, the Virus is made for that.

It might cost much, but you won't regret it! It will be in your studio for many years!

Peter.

I vote for the Micro-Modular as well - makes amazing sounds! You don't need to use the computer to play it because it has 99 programs that you save in rom so you can take it anywhere. Computer only needed for patch editing and saving.

REwire wrote:

I vote for the Micro-Modular as well - makes amazing sounds! You don't need to use the computer to play it because it has 99 programs that you save in rom so you can take it anywhere. Computer only needed for patch editing and saving.

One nice thing though is you can d/l the editor and check it out WITHOUT the MicroModular and see if you like the interface and working with it. If you hate it, then look for something else. Unless something has changed, you still should be able to do that.

Devon

The ion is going for $599 in Dallasat Guitar Center, it seems like an awesome quality 4 part multi synth with a great interface.

You could also consider the $800 Novation X-Station, 1 part synth, 1 part controller, 1 part synth plug in, 1 part audio interface, 1 part fx!

I did have an An1x before and it was beyooteeful.

There also seem to be some synths have have decent power that are cheap, like the DarkStars or the DX200.

If I was to buy any standalone piece of gear, it would have to be the Red Electribe sampler though!