It's amazing to me how there can be so must interest and activity with Cameleon, which is inferior to Vertigo IMHO.

I've played around with with Cameleon for a bit and even getting past the (horrible) interface the performance is lacking. VirSyn's Cube has superior morphing capabilities, but I find it very difficult to use and it's resynthesis is not so good. Sorry I spent the $$ on it.

So if one goes to the Cameleon forum:
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32 you will see much activity. Go figure.

Any ideas here?

Neal

Since this is not discoDSP support at all, I have moved it to Instruments so everybody can share their thoughts

neal1046 wrote:

It's amazing to me how there can be so must interest and activity with Cameleon, which is inferior to Vertigo IMHO. I've played around with with Cameleon for a bit and even getting past the (horrible) interface the performance is lacking. VirSyn's Cube has superior morphing capabilities, but I find it very difficult to use and it's resynthesis is not so good. Sorry I spent the $$ on it. So if one goes to the Cameleon forum: http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32 you will see much activity. Go figure. Any ideas here? Neal

I guess that forum has people with opinions in it too – if you read them you will be able to figure out why they like the Camel Product. Just like you like the Disco one

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

[quote="george"]Since this is not discoDSP support at all, I have moved it to Instruments so everybody can share their thoughts [/quote]

Thanks so much for "helping me out". If I knew you were going to throw me into the arena, I would have been more diplomatic about my opinions <g> and not risk a flame war. Nonetheless let's see what happens,

<damage control>
and I apologize in advance to Cameleon users if I have offended any of you.
</damage control>

no offence taken
as spe3d pointed out its a matter of opinion

also as well as useing cameleon which i find has its strong points in the shorter sampling/resything area,i use doppelmangler which for me does what i need elsewhere.i was however in the market for a third additive and was looking at vertigo as another gun in my arsenal,but recent events have made me reconsider.

basically tho i think its about using what suits you,and im happy that you find what your after in vertigo-its better when we all find what we need
its a good thing theres more than one to choose from,but did you not demo cameleon before paying?thats just silly

vurt wrote:

but did you not demo cameleon before paying?thats just silly

That was The Cube. It seemed promising at the time (during the demo) and as it happens at times enthusiasm opens the wallet. I respect Harry G very much, but I haven't received much support from Virsyn. I'm still demoing Cameleon. Could be I just don't see what I need to.

As for Vertigo, I just wanted to stir up discussion in an otherwise dead thread. BTW, I was sorry to see some of the partial control (envelopes) disappear in v2...

every additive synth out there right now has its own sound, feel, strengths and weaknesses...and everyone has their favorites.

it just depends on which ones have a tone you find particularly pleasing, functions that do as you want them to, are the most fun for you work with, and...most importantly (and probably least tangible / quantifiable)...which ones happen to inspire you the most.

my favorites are dopplemangler, vertigo, and addtive. i dont feel there is anything "wrong" with the others; their tone and/or functions just dont inspire me enough to make me want to buy them.

-ugo

Ugo and vurt are right;it all depends on what you're comfortable with.Personally,I never got on too well with either Vertigo or Cameleon,but I do use WNAdditive,Doppelmangler,TERA2,Absynth or Reaktor for additive depending on my mood-not to mention my old K5
ew

havent had much of a look at any additives in raktor.yet

Hi neal1046,

Clearly there is always an element of personal preference when picking your favourite synthesizer.

Quote:

I'm still demoing Cameleon. Could be I just don't see what I need to.

The manual is well written - so do have a read. Also, there are some tutorials over at:
http://www.camelaudio.com/community.php
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask on the Camel Audio forum and I will do my best to respond - or someone else might be able to give some tips.

Quote:

So if one goes to the Cameleon forum: http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32 you will see much activity.

There is an active community of people who like Cameleon. Also, its currently sitting at the top of the user ratings here at KVR:
http://www.kvr-vst.com/ratings/0.html
Its also received great reviews from lots of mags, and received a Keyboard Key Buy award and Future Music Platinum Award amongst many others. You can read extracts from the reviews on the product page:
http://www.camelaudio.com/products.php?pID=28

I'm not saying these things because I think you should get Cameleon because other people say its good. Have a good look at all the demos and choose the one that is right for you.

BTW. The competition running to win a copy of Cameleon will be coming to a close in two days time. Head over here if you're interested:
http://www.kvr-vst.com/comp_camel.php

Thanks
Ben

there's some previous threads where x-bruce covers this same territory in his usual thorough way.

to do something difficult and complex through an interface is always a challenge. it's a source of some amazement how varied the response is to a particular 'model' of additive synth, host or ??? --

there are some well known and understood user interface guidelines, but there's still not much guidance for the best ways to 'model' complexity. A lot depends on the underlying model the developer worked with. and so that really gets down to the mystery of how we conceptualize and present information.
over time certain models evolve and the best tend to survive or be appropriated into other models, but the marketplace doesn't necessarily reward the best/simplest/easiest.

what I find most interesting in opinions in this business is how the sound of a vst plays against its ease of use/programming. i own a lot of vsts that sound incredible to me, but defy most of my efforts to learn to program them. occsasionally there's a great sounding synth that also presents a model I can respond to and I can program.

I could choose to own and use a set of simple subtractive vst that present that simple and generic subtractive model, but I don't. I buy and use based more on sound -- even if I'm limited to presets or the most superficial use of a full-featured instrument.

I think/feel that certain models will always be complex and difficult. Something like FM programming is presented in various ways and the basics come across slowly. Additive synthesis is a little more open and a little newer model and so requires a certain patience and mutual adaptation.

I like how easy it is to morph in the Camel one between four voices over an easy to define timeline.

I like the fact it now exports images as well as import them – great for another way get a starting point for programming your own sounds.

I like the easy tab settings

I like the layout

I like it’s warmth (imo it sounds warm to me)

I like the fact it’s low on cpu use and the list goes on and on for me

I don't like the my additive is better than yours threads.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

neal1046 wrote:

Thanks so much for "helping me out". If I knew you were going to throw me into the arena, I would have been more diplomatic about my opinions <g> and not risk a flame war. Nonetheless let's see what happens

I must say our forum is not for discussing other products. Unsurprisingly, moving the thread to a general forum has brought the same people I expected to yet again.

neal1046 wrote:

VirSyn's Cube has superior morphing capabilities, but I find it very difficult to use and it's resynthesis is not so good. Sorry I spent the $$ on it.

Cube sometimes has problems to find key note of a sound so you may have to fix this manualy using the Key parameter in wave section of the source. Other than that when starting whith the init sound you have to increase the amount of harmonics used for best quality, it's set for pretty slow Computers. You can do that before or after the resynthesis. Some ppl. forget to try those things...
I hope this helps, if you still have problems with the Cube please contact Virsyn support...

You will find that in some cases you need to set the key note for the camel product too, and increase harmonics used (or reduce depending on the type of sound), with re-synthesis

I have not had a go with Doppel or the latest Vertigo.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

I think ConcreteFX's Adder is actually my favorite of all the current additive synths. It just has a fuller, richer sound than the others do (to my ears at least).

i think i must be an additive whore
i like them all (well at least the ones i've got)
As many people have said, they are different, as different as the various varieties of subtractive, digital or FM synths.

fwiw my thoughts are:
i like cameleon for playing, the presets are fantastic and it's great to tweak
i like adder for building sounds from scratch (not that i do that very often)the control over partials and range of control is great
i like vertigo for resynthesis, for me it is best at that, and its morphing between totally different sounds is fantastic. I really use it mainly as an uber sampler
and i like doppelmangler for abusing sounds and loops, which i guess is what it's designed for.

i must admit i've never really investigated the additive parts of other synths i own.

just my thoughts

So I guess "ease of use" is an important factor here. I believe I have mixed up asthetics with functionality in the user interface. wrench45us had a good observation about complexity and the UI...and certainly dealing with additive synthesis in all of its complexity is a great challenge.

Many years ago, a bit before Synclavier appeared on the market, I was attempting to design a similar hardware additive synth, using s100 (!) microcomputers controlling hardware oscillators. I was lucky to get envelopes on 16 partials working, and its features/capabilities would not even begin to come close to anything these days;) To be able to experience any of these is truly a dream come true!